Topic: Question on Imaging

[Conan]

thanks sa mga inputs, i will give it a try.

another thing, pag malapit naman ako about 3 feet from it, well centered naman ang boses. pag lumayo nako dun na nawawala sa center.

Have you tried playing with different "toe-in" positions of the speakers? How far apart are they from each other?

[anchit]

Have you tried playing with different "toe-in" positions of the speakers? How far apart are they from each other?

sir they are approx 5feet away from each other

[markcrenz]

Is it because my right channel is a lot closer to the wall?

i think it has a lot to do with this. the first reflections could give up to 3dB apparent gain to the right channel. by moving closer to the speakers you can minimize the effects of the first reflection but the stereo image will be much wider than it should be. best solution perhaps is to acoustically treat the wall.

[Conan]

sir they are approx 5feet away from each other

My speakers are similar in position to yours, that the right one is very near the wall (made of wood) and the left one is not. However the vocals do sound centered, and neither speaker sounds louder than the other. I had to experiment a lot though with "toe-in" and the distance of the speakers. I think 6 to 7 feet apart would be ideal.

[Superman]

Hi Francis! The room condition integrates w/ the imaging also of your system. Try several toe-ins...if you have extra space, try 8-feet distance from left to right speaker...listen...then adjust toe-in, then listen again...make sure you listen to a very familiar CD/music...Good luck!

[praktikal]

If I may add, marami man ang tataas ang kilay pero imo, di mo na kailangan ng instrument to test. Try to move/relocate your speakers and kung wala ka ng iba pang option but your current setup then maglagay ka na lang ng panel sa left channel para pantay na sila ng right channel. Same reflection/bounce na sila. hth  Kahit hanap ka muna ng anything temporary then listen if may effect nga. Pwedeng maging dual purpose yan. Panel sa side ng speaker then cd or bookshelf sa kabila para maging sturdy. Oks ba? 

Kung napagpalit mo na ang speakers, try mo naman ang cable ang pagpalitin mo para ang right channel malipat sa kanan. 

[anchit]

Thanks for the inputs sirs. unfortunely limited lang space ko. what would be the max minimum distance nila sa walls para lang mamaximize ko yung distance between speakers? baka kasi todo ko is 7feet pero dikit na sila sa wall, concrete wall sa right, wooden door sa left.

thanks!

[qguy]

did you try adjusting your balance ?

[anchit]

did you try adjusting your balance ?

sorry sir, what do you mean by adjusting the balance? thanks!

[qguy]

on most integrated amps there is a balance knob that decreases the volume of  one channel, this is used to center the image in cases where the listener is closer to that side. If you have an AVR, check if it has that feature on the menus..

[Hammerheart]

better post some pics of your set up sir, it may be easier for us to throw suggestions by then. maganda to, we can learn more from here. this is a very interesting topic.  

[Conan]

Thanks for the inputs sirs. unfortunely limited lang space ko. what would be the max minimum distance nila sa walls para lang mamaximize ko yung distance between speakers? baka kasi todo ko is 7feet pero dikit na sila sa wall, concrete wall sa right, wooden door sa left.

thanks!

Your problem might be due to the difference in wall material.

[qguy]

just saw your setup, your amp and the new CJ does not have Balance controls. You can only play with the position of the left and right speakers.

[anchit]

just saw your setup, your amp and the new CJ does not have Balance controls. You can only play with the position of the left and right speakers.

thats right sir:)

ive set them now as far as i can, around 5inches fromthe wall, toed in the left speaker and it worked like wonder!

[streetsmart]

thats right sir:)

ive set them now as far as i can, around 5inches fromthe wall, toed in the left speaker and it worked liked wonder!

Very nice! 

My theory is that when you toe in a speaker (or point them at you), you will hear more of the highs and mids because they are directional -- you hear less highs and mids when you listen off-axis and vice-versa. Your right speaker's output was being reinforced by its proximity to the wall. Toeing in the left speaker provided a small boost to its mids and highs and thus made its apparent spl the same as the right.

[anchit]

Very nice! 

My theory is that when you toe in a speaker (or point them at you), you will hear more of the highs and mids because they are directional -- you hear less highs and mids when you listen off-axis and vice-versa. Your right speaker's output was being reinforced by its proximity to the wall. Toeing in the left speaker provided a small boost to its mids and highs and thus made its apparent spl the same as the right.

thanks sir Mark.

 putting them away farther from each other meant that they will be closer sa wall, one thing i noticed naging boomy naman sya

[streetsmart]

thanks sir Mark.

 putting them away farther from each other meant that they will be closer sa wall, one thing i noticed naging boomy naman sya

Honestly, I don't think that putting them farther away was the solution. It was the toeing in. Of course, as you bring the speakers closer to the wall, what always happens is that the bass is boosted, kaya boomy. That's why the best speaker location is at least 4 feet from any wall (actually, even floor!).

[Digities]

wow. lots of nice tips for speaker positioning here !

i have a question to add though..

the setup..

speakers are 52" from the back wall. the left speaker is in open space while the right is a foot from the right wall. speakers are firing straight into the room. speakers form an equilateral triangle at 7 feet between the speakers and 7 feet to the listening chair.

imaging in my case is quite unstable. the voice can be centered but occasionally the voice will veer to the left or the right on the same track. (i'm listening to mraz's curbside prophet as i type this and some lines are slightly to the left of center as opposed to other lines which are quite centered). oh, other songs naman centered talaga voice. no unstable imaging. i find it "irritating".

thanks for the listen.. and hope some one can cure this unstable imaging..

[anchit]

Honestly, I don't think that putting them farther away was the solution. It was the toeing in. Of course, as you bring the speakers closer to the wall, what always happens is that the bass is boosted, kaya boomy. That's why the best speaker location is at least 4 feet from any wall (actually, even floor!).

thanks sir mark! Tama i think its the toeing in thay helped.

wow for feet from the wall! If i were to follow that magkapatog ma yung speakers ko because my room is just 8 1/2 feet lang 

[streetsmart]

thanks sir mark! Tama i think its the toeing in thay helped.

wow for feet from the wall! If i were to follow that magkapatog ma yung speakers ko because my room is just 8 1/2 feet lang 

Hehe. That's the usual limitation of our rooms.

That's also why during the Hifi shows, the exhibitors put the speakers really far from any walls. That's not done for aesthetics, it's for acoustics.

[monreq]

Have you tried listening to a monaural recording?

Cal's suggestion is the easiest and cheapest way.  But as per audiojunkie said, it depends on recording most of the time.

[monreq]

Anchit,

First you need to know how a particular track is actually being presented during playback before you make the test or adjustments.

One way, is to listen through a headphones and verify the imaging of the vocals and the instruments.

OR, get a test CD, like those Chesky test CDs.  In these test cds there are tracks testing left and right balance, phasing, depth, imaging, etc.

Check this out in your favorite stores or from your friends:

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demonstration-Disc-Critical-Listening/dp/B00002MXUH
or
http://www.amazon.com/XLO-Reference-Test-Burn-Recordings/dp/B0000015AL/ref=pd_sim_m_2
or
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demonstration-Disc-Various-Artists/dp/B0016KCBNC/ref=pd_sim_m_14

When you have these materials, then you can test and adjust, speaker placement and/or acoustic treatment.  

BTW, also check all you wires and ensure all are connected consistently.

Hope this helps.

+1M

[meat_eater]

try to experiment by putting absorbent material on the conc. wall and observe the effect.... 

+1 here

[lithium_deuteride]

Sounds like there's something wrong with the amp.  Most records nasa gitna yung image.  Or your room can be the cause, one side absorbing and the other diffusing the sound.  Try nearfield listening to eliminate room influence.

[audiojunkie]

Sounds like there's something wrong with the amp.  Most records nasa gitna yung image.  Or your room can be the cause, one side absorbing and the other diffusing the sound.  Try nearfield listening to eliminate room influence.

that can be done 2-ways, either move the speakers out of the room or move listening position closer to speakers, both will have same effect. 

[RU9]

that can be done 2-ways, either move the speakers out of the room or move listening position closer to speakers, both will have same effect. 

There will be a difference in the time the reflected sounds will reach your ears.

[RU9]

Try the diagonal set-up.

[ATJr.]

http://www.google.com.ph/search?aq=1&oq=live+end+dead+end&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=live+end+dead+end+acoustics