Author Topic: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion  (Read 164271 times)

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Offline Dilbert7

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #180 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 05:42 PM »
For Bumblebee’s math problem, any modern computer can beat the average human chess player, but it took a massive supercomputer to beat Kasparov in 1997. Much resistance to evolution in the past has come from mathematicians and engineers who have complained about its probability.

Dario can only open his mouth wide at that time because there is no powerful microscope to drill down into what he thought as single (simple) living cell. So biologist, educated with evolution in mind, just accept in passing that THEORY.

But Science, being a truth ally, with the use of powerful microscope & computers, paved for the discovery and much learning about of DNA of basic cellular unit by Biologists – that it is enormously complex. Far more complex than the latest Intel CPU if you will. And yet, evolutionist like alistair will just brush aside this complexity and refer to it as mere “chemical”!

Vast understanding of “single cell” and of DNA and of complexity in simple life is undeniable! Antony Flew, an atheist scientist after the methodological naturalism of Science & who for many decades flew the flag for atheism, recently declared in an interview in 2008:

I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries.

It seems to me that Richard Dawkins constantly overlooks the fact that... the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.



Dawkin says:

"I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that [Intelligent Design] if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer".


So, here are 2 guys, coming from same origin, talking of the same thing! Only for Dawkins, the design originated from an ALIENs that evolved yet million, no billion, no zillion of years ahead of the life on earth!  ;D


Don’t mistook this post as a proof of Creation THEORY. Rather, that evolution is still a THEORY – only now, struggling as Science discoveries soar to new heights!
« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2011 at 05:52 PM by Dilbert7 »

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #181 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:14 PM »
100% percent.

proof: look around you... birds everywhere... :)
Sometimes I wonder if you're just trying to be funny, or if you really think different. Special, even.

Quote
papaano ginawa ng mga evolutinist scientist na sabihing that an event (like chimecal process) results to simpler form if they dont know the correct/exact combination of DNA/whatsover...
Except—what you're describing isn't Evolution. For the 100th time.

If you want to debate abiogenesis vs exogenesis vs. spontaneous generation or whatever, I think that deserves its own thread entirely.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #182 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:29 PM »
Creation siyempre. Galing ako sa magulang ko. Iyung magulang ko naman galing sa magulang nila and so on and so forth. Iyung nauna naman si Adam at si Eba.

Mahirap isipin iyung evolution dahil hindi maipaliwanag ng evolution bakit nagkakaroon ng buhay. Paano ba nagkakaroon ng buhay? Palagay ko kahit bigyan mo pa si Darwin ng isang toneladang abo at isang bilyong taon eh hindi pa rin siya makakalikha ng isang buhay na halaman o hayop.

Online bumblebee

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #183 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:36 PM »
Why is the sky blue? Is it because God made it so or is it because of Rayleigh scattering?

When we turn on the TV, where does it get power? From God?

Why does an iron rod become a magnet when coiled with wires? Si God pa rin ba?

Of course, si God. Now, if your children ask you these questions, you know the answer. Good luck with that.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #184 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:37 PM »
Creation siyempre. Galing ako sa magulang ko. Iyung magulang ko naman galing sa magulang nila and so on and so forth. Iyung nauna naman si Adam at si Eba.

Mahirap isipin iyung evolution dahil hindi maipaliwanag ng evolution bakit nagkakaroon ng buhay. Paano ba nagkakaroon ng buhay? Palagay ko kahit bigyan mo pa si Darwin ng isang toneladang abo at isang bilyong taon eh hindi pa rin siya makakalikha ng isang buhay na halaman o hayop.


hindi na raw evolution yang sinasabi mo sir... ibang usapan na raw yan... ibang thread na raw yan... pag usapan lang daw natin sa thread na ito ang evolution... huwag na nating pag-usapan kung paano nagsimula ang evolution...


bakit kaya hindi na lang gumaya ang mga evolutionist kay Antony Flew... an atheist that recognize the existence of God because of compleiity of things on earth.
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Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #185 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:38 PM »
Why is the sky blue? Is it because God made it so or is it because of Rayleigh scattering?

When we turn on the TV, where does it get power? From God?

Why does an iron rod become a magnet when coiled with wires? Si God pa rin ba?

Of course, si God. Now, if your children ask you these questions, you know the answer. Good luck with that.

nay... tay... saan ako galing... anak sa unggoy ka galing... Good luck naman dyan...

pero anak... kung susunda mo ang kanunununuan mo... lolo ng lolo ng lolo ng lolo ng lolo (multiply mo yan ng billlion of years)... anak galing ka sa butete...
« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:53 PM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Dilbert7

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #186 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:47 PM »

It's not testable or falsifiable. Therefore, it's not a proper theory. It's just a belief or an opinion.
Except you can't tell me because, let's be honest, you have no idea, do you? You just believe that living beings suddenly appeared fully formed out of nowhere. That's your belief, and you're entitled to it. Just don't go around feeling like Science and the Theory of Evolution are personally attacking your beliefs.
At least Evolution has evidence pointing to it, whether or not you believe it. We have indicators like a gradual progression from simpler to more complex and more abundant fossils, a billions of years old Earth, and so on.




You got that wrong. Creation in this thread was not presented a fact!

The evolutionists in this thread claimed the THEORY of evolution is a fact - so you have to prove it!
I do not felt attacked, on the contrary - the evolution THEORY fact is the one attacked! Not only by rhetorics but actual findings of high-tech Science - witnessed by debunked "evidences" coupled with story-telling (a lie).




On the contrary. Evolution to current diversity taking place over only 6,000 years is less likely because that's hardly enough time even for a single species to emerge. Over billions of years it's more likely.

It's simple math. If the probability of something occurring once a day is 1/x, then it's more likely to occur or have occurred over 10 years than in 10 days. Tanong mo kay dpogs statistics graduate 'yan.



Mere Speculation is not a proof!  ;D  Mathematicians already put out their opposition to the THEORY!  :P



Even Darwin himself can not escape his brand of Science, and declared himself an agnostics - because he has to stand within the Methodological Naturalism of Science!


I think you are the one echoing and parroting erroneous claims, not Darwin, not Dawkins!

Flew, like Charles Darwin, rejected atheism. “Since the mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us,” Darwin explains, “I for one must be content to remain an agnostic”. Flew agrees: “The origin of life cannot be explained if you start with matter alone”.

Dawkins loves his ALIEN!  ;D
He is now the top defender of Atheism! and MYSTIFICATION!

Richard Dawkins’ deductive logic in The Selfish Genes edged Flew to the tipping point. Dawkins had gone beyond the bounds of science and into myth building, as had Ernst Haeckel during the ninteenth century. Flew notes, “Richard Dawkins’s The Selfish Genes was a major exercise in popular mystification.” The history of evolution follows a legacy of fraud.
« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:55 PM by Dilbert7 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #187 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 06:48 PM »
Why is the sky blue? Is it because God made it so or is it because of Rayleigh scattering?

When we turn on the TV, where does it get power? From God?

Why does an iron rod become a magnet when coiled with wires? Si God pa rin ba?

Of course, si God. Now, if your children ask you these questions, you know the answer. Good luck with that.

Hindi ka naman galit ano?

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #188 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:19 PM »
Not only by rhetorics but actual findings of high-tech Science - witnessed by debunked "evidences" coupled with story-telling (a lie).
Citations, please. Those published in a peer-reviewed journal. Because if you have such categorical 'proof' that Evolution didn't happen then you deserve a Nobel Prize.

Quote
Don’t mistook this post as a proof of Creation THEORY.
And what theory is that again?

How does it compare to my belief that The Flying Spaghetti Monster made us out of pasta? My 'proof': We're here, aren't we? And all the elements in pasta are found in the human body.
« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:22 PM by alistair »

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #189 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:23 PM »
nay... tay... saan ako galing... anak sa unggoy ka galing...
Kayo lang po ang nagsasabi na galing ang anak mo sa unggoy. Hindi po iyan ang sinasabi nang modern evolutionary model.

But again, thanks for trying. Again, try harder.

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #190 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:29 PM »
hindi na raw evolution yang sinasabi mo sir... ibang usapan na raw yan... ibang thread na raw yan... pag usapan lang daw natin sa thread na ito ang evolution... huwag na nating pag-usapan kung paano nagsimula ang evolution...
Yup.

The problem is that you guys are conflating several issues:

1. The origin (and age) of the Earth (and by extension the Universe)
2. The origin of Life (the first self-replicating molecular structures considered 'alive')
3. The mechanism by which the various, complex forms of life on Earth came to be about

I opened a new thread for the first. The 3rd is what Evolution talks about.

As to the origin of Life itself, we can really only speculate for now. There are several, competing theories or models.

However, only one of them claims that all the above happened 'magically' with no adequate physical mechanism, with no cause & effect, in the blink of an eye. And we can't falsify that because it's only a belief.

Quote
bakit kaya hindi na lang gumaya ang mga evolutionist kay Antony Flew... an atheist that recognize the existence of God because of compleiity of things on earth.
Bakit hindi na lang gumaya sa insert random authority here, a born-again Christian who turned into an Atheist because he grew tired of all the inconsistencies in the Bible?
« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:30 PM by alistair »

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #191 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:31 PM »
Why is the sky blue? Is it because God made it so or is it because of Rayleigh scattering?

When we turn on the TV, where does it get power? From God?

Why does an iron rod become a magnet when coiled with wires? Si God pa rin ba?
Aka, God of the gaps

Online bumblebee

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #192 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 07:46 PM »
nay... tay... saan ako galing... anak sa unggoy ka galing... Good luck naman dyan...

Natawa naman ako dito ;D Balitaan mo kami ;D

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #193 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 08:08 PM »
Kayo lang po ang nagsasabi na galing ang anak mo sa unggoy. Hindi po iyan ang sinasabi nang modern evolutionary model.

But again, thanks for trying. Again, try harder.


hmmm... how about this...

nay... tay... saan ako galing...
anak sa modern monkey ka galing...

nay... tay... kanina lang sabi niyo galing lang ako sa unggoy.. ngayon sa modern monkey pala...
anak... ganoon kabilis science natin ngayon... tingnan mo bukas makalawa baka sabihin nila galing pala tayo sa modern-english-speaking monkey...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline sardaukar

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #194 on: Sep 19, 2011 at 08:13 PM »

hmmm... how about this...

nay... tay... saan ako galing...
anak sa modern monkey ka galing...

nay... tay... kanina lang sabi niyo galing lang ako sa unggoy.. ngayon sa modern monkey pala...
anak... ganoon kabilis science natin ngayon... tingnan mo bukas makalawa baka sabihin nila galing pala tayo sa modern-english-speaking monkey...

This is too funny! Modern evolutionary model = modern monkey. ;D

Offline rascal101

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #195 on: Sep 20, 2011 at 06:17 PM »

hmmm... how about this...

nay... tay... saan ako galing...
anak sa modern monkey ka galing...

nay... tay... kanina lang sabi niyo galing lang ako sa unggoy.. ngayon sa modern monkey pala...
anak... ganoon kabilis science natin ngayon... tingnan mo bukas makalawa baka sabihin nila galing pala tayo sa modern-english-speaking monkey...

Hahaha
« Last Edit: Sep 20, 2011 at 06:18 PM by rascal101 »

Offline RU9

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #196 on: Sep 21, 2011 at 10:16 AM »
Let us bring back sanity into this thread  :)

With the latest pronouncement of vatican about evolution, is it also adapting for survival?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

The Vatican claims Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with Christianity

The Vatican has admitted that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution should not have been dismissed and claimed it is compatible with the Christian view of Creation.
« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2011 at 10:23 AM by RU9 »

Offline Wildfire™

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #197 on: Sep 21, 2011 at 10:42 AM »
the vatican is just adapting to survive and bring lies and confusion like what they've done before

but the bibble said:
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Corinthians 14:33

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #198 on: Sep 21, 2011 at 11:03 AM »
With the latest pronouncement of vatican about evolution, is it also adapting for survival?
It's funny how organizations can adapt for survival—but organisms can't?

In any case—yeah. The Catholic Church, for all its historical flaws, has never been shy of adapting to the times. This is one reason for its (continued) success. From a flat Earth to a spherical Earth, from the Copernican geocentric to the Galilean heliocentric model, from selling dispensations to Theology of Liberation.

I'm positive that the Vatican will accept both the Big Bang model of cosmology and the evolutionary model of Biology—since, personally, I too believe there's nothing there that is incompatible with the doctrine of Creation and Christian theology in general—except for Biblical fundamentalists and literalists.
« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2011 at 11:32 AM by alistair »

Offline dana

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #199 on: Sep 21, 2011 at 01:39 PM »
ang alam ko , galing ako sa nanay at tatay ko.
ewan ko sa inyo ;D

sorry for the break.
pls continue ;D

Offline Verbl Kint

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #200 on: Sep 21, 2011 at 02:42 PM »
the vatican is just adapting to survive and bring lies and confusion like what they've done before

but the bibble said:
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Corinthians 14:33

Here's something better, a quote from Hesus himself:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:24)

He is definitely right. 

Offline fattyacid

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #201 on: Sep 21, 2011 at 03:06 PM »
Here's something better, a quote from Hesus himself:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:24)

He is definitely right. 

Its 10:34 brad.
Be better than the Theater.

Offline jcdvo

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #202 on: Sep 22, 2011 at 09:03 PM »
Let us bring back sanity into this thread  :)

With the latest pronouncement of vatican about evolution, is it also adapting for survival?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

The Vatican claims Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with Christianity

The Vatican has admitted that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution should not have been dismissed and claimed it is compatible with the Christian view of Creation.


Paano na yan dpogs? so evolution and creation are compatible, any explanation for this?


Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #203 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 05:05 AM »
Paano na yan dpogs? so evolution and creation are compatible, any explanation for this?



compatible sa vatican (lagi naman sila ganoon...) kung saan ang majority doon sila papanig...

anyway... did the pope said that it is "compatible with the Bible"


evolution and creation hindi puwedeng magsama...
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Offline Tempter

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #204 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 10:44 AM »
compatible sa vatican (lagi naman sila ganoon...) kung saan ang majority doon sila papanig...

anyway... did the pope said that it is "compatible with the Bible"


evolution and creation hindi puwedeng magsama...



Any reason kung bakit hindi pwede???
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #205 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 12:15 PM »
Any reason kung bakit hindi pwede???
Kasi kung literal mong babasahin ang Bibliya, wala namang nabanggit dun na salitang Evolution.

Wala ring salitang sphere.

Pero, somehow, the Hebrew word for circle is interpreted (not literally), as a sphere. As in, "like clay under a seal."

Biro mo, clay pressed under a seal, when literally interpreted somehow becomes not flat, but a sphere. I've played with wax seals and clay as a child and I've never managed to "press" clay into a round sphere.

Pero dapat pa rin daw basahin nang literal ang Bibliya, maniwala ka, brad.
« Last Edit: Sep 23, 2011 at 01:02 PM by alistair »

Offline dindop

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #206 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 12:23 PM »
For those who think that the Book of Genesis is metaphorical, please enlighten those who think otherwise, what is the metaphor...
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Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #207 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 01:12 PM »
I'd be more interested, for those who insist on reading Genesis literally, where the waters in Gen 1:2 came from, or how night & day came to be about (Gen 1:3-5) before the Sun and the stars (Gen 1:16), or whether animals came before Man (Gen 1:20-27) or whether Man came before animals (Gen 2:18-20)...

Offline barrister

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #208 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 07:09 PM »
... where the waters in Gen 1:2 came from,...

Very simple.  The waters were created by God on the first day.

Gen. 1:1-2 says:

1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

On the first day, God created the heavens and the earth.  

Don't think that the earth was nothing but dry land on the first day.  When God created the earth, the earth already had land and water.  But the land was under the water; and it was only on the third day when dry land appeared.

Here's what happened on the third day, according to Gen. 1:9-10,13:

9And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good. ... 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.




... or how night & day came to be about (Gen 1:3-5) before the Sun and the stars (Gen 1:16)...

This is for more advanced study.

On the first day, God made light, and separated light from the darkness.  This was the temporary light to be used prior to the creation of the sunlight, moonlight, starlights, etc.

On the fourth day, God made the sunlight, moonlight, starlights, etc., which were the permanent lights.  Upon creation of the permanent lights on the fourth day, the temporary light created on the first day ceased to exist.




... or whether animals came before Man (Gen 1:20-27) or whether Man came before animals (Gen 2:18-20)

Those are verses commonly cited to point out alleged inconsistencies in the bible.  But there is no inconsistency there.

Gen. 1:20-27 is chronological.  Animals were created before man.

But Gen. 2:18-20 is not chronological.  It was not stating a chronology of creation, because that had already been stated in previous verses.  It merely explains why Eve had to be created:

18The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.


God said there was a need to create a suitable helper for Adam.  Why?  Because none of the animals previously created was considered a "suitable helper" for him.  So God created Eve --- the "suitable helper".  
 

« Last Edit: Sep 24, 2011 at 12:55 PM by barrister »

Offline Tempter

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #209 on: Sep 23, 2011 at 10:31 PM »
Kasi kung literal mong babasahin ang Bibliya, wala namang nabanggit dun na salitang Evolution.

Wala ring salitang sphere.

Pero, somehow, the Hebrew word for circle is interpreted (not literally), as a sphere. As in, "like clay under a seal."

Biro mo, clay pressed under a seal, when literally interpreted somehow becomes not flat, but a sphere. I've played with wax seals and clay as a child and I've never managed to "press" clay into a round sphere.

Pero dapat pa rin daw basahin nang literal ang Bibliya, maniwala ka, brad.



That did not answer my question... ang layo eh
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."