Author Topic: Yet Another Speaker Cable Thread (Read 8585 times)

darkn1ght · « **on:** Mar 06, 2012 at 12:21 PM »

Planning to replace my speaker cables for my HT with thicker wires and opting to go for 12AWG.
Went to Deeco Marcos Hiway and found 2 brands of 12AWG wires:

Swan - 35 PhP/meter
Quantum - 50 PhP/meter

As per my calculations, I would need a total of 25m but I'll probably get 30m to be safe.
Banana plugs would be on both ends of the wire to connect my AVR to the speakers.
My questions would be:

1. Should I stick with the Swan brand or opt to go for Quantum?
2. Are there any other speaker wires (within the price range) which would be better than the 2 brands from Deeco?
3. Are there any better cost effective speaker cable solutions - DIY cables perhaps?

Thanks,

joko11 · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 06, 2012 at 12:29 PM »

buy the cheapest you can get.sound quality produce by expensive vs elcheapo brand wires are subjective.
this is an old debate weather you hear significant changes or not.audition is the best answer.
goodluck

fattyacid · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 06, 2012 at 01:18 PM »

Get the P50/meter. Costs more but saves you a lot of "what if's".

ATJr. · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 06, 2012 at 01:22 PM »

get the one with bigger copper cross-section, regardless of cost...

darkn1ght · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 07, 2012 at 02:55 AM »

Looking for other options... Any other suggestions???

Stagea · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 07, 2012 at 04:29 AM »

Quote from: darkn1ght on Mar 07, 2012 at 02:55 AM

Looking for other options... Any other suggestions???

Spectra has Profigold Bass Flex 4mm^2 cables (~AWG 11). They cost a bit more, but they're cheap as far as branded cables go.

Another option is to use 'flat cord' from your favorite hardware store. This is even in the PSB Speaker User Guide (referring to AWG 18 cable as 'lamp cord' and AWG 16 cable as 'heater cord'). Even AWG 10 of this type shouldn't cost much.

lncc63 · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 07, 2012 at 05:09 AM »

Try the other stores Bro. There are a bunch in Shangrila Mall on ESDA, in the old mall across from Dusit in Makati, etc. They have cables in the P50/m range.

Even among the cables in this price range you may find differences and you may prefer one over the other. IMHO, it only really matters for your front speakers so if you are inclined to find your "soulmate" interconnect then it won't be too costly.

Dilbert7 · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:07 PM »

Quote from: darkn1ght on Mar 07, 2012 at 02:55 AM

Looking for other options... Any other suggestions???

Get the most expensive of them all, that got more scientific research behind it, and probably the most precious metals of the bunch!

seriously AWG #10-12 should be typical.

if you want a dressed up one for aesthetic, this is immaterial to the sound, so any grand looks would do!

if you want a claimed scientific technology behind the cable, this is also immaterial to the sound, so any scientific claims will do!

Bottomline, the only material thing to the power transfer from amplifier to the speaker is just the size.

However, if you expect equalization to happen via your cable - well, you have to tell us what kind of equalization you hope to achieve, your speaker model, your listening preference, etc etc. Of course, doing all this via the cable is a long shot!

ATJr. · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:21 PM »

just remember that your speakers' voice coils will have about a gage#28 magnet wire inside......think of this when you are about to purchase that gage#12 speaker cable....

qguy · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:33 PM »

di lahat

tweeters and smaller woofers maybe, but large woofers and subwoofers have thicker wires

Quote from: TonyT on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:21 PM

just remember that your speakers' voice coils will have about a gage#28 magnet wire inside......think of this when you are about to purchase that gage#12 speaker cable....

ATJr. · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:39 PM »

Quote from: qguy on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:33 PM

di lahat tweeters and smaller woofers maybe, but large woofers and subwoofers have thicker wires

o sige, i heard from pilyo meron ding #18, per monster woofers na siguro yon....

qguy · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:51 PM »

I think the concept of using a thin speaker wire because the voice coils have thin wires is flawed, its like saying why buy a 12 gage power cord wire when the power transformers windings are gage 28 magnet wire. Would you use gage 28 on your power cords ?

Quote from: TonyT on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:21 PM

just remember that your speakers' voice coils will have about a gage#28 magnet wire inside......think of this when you are about to purchase that gage#12 speaker cable....

ATJr. · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 12:55 PM »

a gage 20 power cord is more than enough in that case....

there is probably 100meters of #28 in the transformer, and just 1.5meters in the power cord....

qguy · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:08 PM »

Same concept on the voice coil... it has X meters of coils inside it... not counting the inductor in the crossover, have you seen how thick those wire are

The point here is buy a sufficient gage cable, if the over the top cable $$$$$$ has a certain character that suits you, go for it. IMHO Cables can not add anything to your system, it can only remove something. My 12 gage biwire cable has better bass than the my older single 11 gage cable. The effect is mas "malakas" ang bass niya.. (how the heck did that happen

) I wont say it added bass, but I guess it remove something else and the effect is that it "Enhanced" the bass response

Quote from: TonyT on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:55 PM

a gage 20 power cord is more than enough in that case....

there is probably 100meters of #28 in the transformer, and just 1.5meters in the power cord....

ATJr. · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:26 PM »

speaker voice coils probably has 10 meters of gage 28 wire....shorter lengths if gage24 or higher...

a speaker cable gage 16 to 12 is fine.....buying gage 12 since you are never sure it is what it is....so thickness makes sense... i have seen gage14 wire that looks like is is gage20, and i have seen a gage18 that looked like it was a gage14....confusing isn't it?....only for this reason go for gage12....

Euphony101 · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 17, 2012 at 01:34 PM »

For me, I opted the cheapest one I could find...swan 12 gauge* yung Black and red mas mahal kasi yung transparent.

_{*Yun kasi naka print sa cable}

Dilbert7 · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM »

Quote from: TonyT on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:26 PM

speaker voice coils probably has 10 meters of gage 28 wire....shorter lengths if gage24 or higher...

a speaker cable gage 16 to 12 is fine.....buying gage 12 since you are never sure it is what it is....so thickness makes sense... i have seen gage14 wire that looks like is is gage20, and i have seen a gage18 that looked like it was a gage14....confusing isn't it?....only for this reason go for gage12....

the trouble with marketing

, and the buyer

, and the clueless user

validating what you buy than pushing someone's luck explaining differences by mere marketing ploy (advertisement) should have cleared the reason behind sonic differences - otherwise confusion really abounds.

As Zaphs highlighted "some people who are thrilled by sharp high tweets thinking it is now loud and supposedly clean" is in fact an audio distortion when measured. Like what he said, it is pointless to debate.

I bought the transparent one, also labeled #12AWG, one roll! Cheap din - compared to more technologically advanced cable in the market!

- I also use #10 royal cord for my high end japs surplus.

jjlovemusic · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 12:24 PM »

uhuh uhuh, yeah!

confused, nose bleed at OP na si bro darknight!

musta bro? nakabili ka na ba ng cables?

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 04:45 PM »

Quote from: Stagea on Mar 07, 2012 at 04:29 AM

Another option is to use 'flat cord' from your favorite hardware store. This is even in the PSB Speaker User Guide (referring to AWG 18 cable as 'lamp cord' and AWG 16 cable as 'heater cord'). Even AWG 10 of this type shouldn't cost much.

And may guide din sa polarity. Either an embossed stripe and/or labeling.

Quote from: qguy on Mar 17, 2012 at 01:08 PM

Same concept on the voice coil... it has X meters of coils inside it... not counting the inductor in the crossover, have you seen how thick those wire are

The point here is buy a sufficient gage cable, if the over the top cable $$$$$$ has a certain character that suits you, go for it. IMHO Cables can not add anything to your system, it can only remove something. My 12 gage biwire cable has better bass than the my older single 11 gage cable. The effect is mas "malakas" ang bass niya.. (how the heck did that happen ) I wont say it added bass, but I guess it remove something else and the effect is that it "Enhanced" the bass response

Nice observation. So the best wires are no wires at all?

So is it safe to say that coloration per se, is not actually adding something to the system but masking?

Quote from: TonyT on Mar 17, 2012 at 12:55 PM

a gage 20 power cord is more than enough in that case....

there is probably 100meters of #28 in the transformer, and just 1.5meters in the power cord....

I'm no electrical guru pero alam ko, may purpose kung bakit maliit ang wire sa voice coil. Same is true s mga induction motors. Para ba sa inductance...?

ATJr. · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 05:09 PM »

yes...and to meet resistance specs...

trinity1123 · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 05:13 PM »

HEHE Dating manipi yung speaker wire,then pinalitan ng makapal tapos lumakas ang bass?

HEHE Di kaya nasa isipan nya lang yun na lalakas ang bass?

Di rin ako cable expert,pero nandun yun sa ratio ng wire gauge at distance nung source to speaker e ..Di ba mas mahaba ang wire nagbabago ang resistance? tama ba ako?ganun din yun sa kapal ng alambre at material na ginamit hehehe...

markcrenz · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 05:19 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Mar 20, 2012 at 04:45 PM

I'm no electrical guru pero alam ko, may purpose kung bakit maliit ang wire sa voice coil. Same is true s mga induction motors. Para ba sa inductance...?

Eto yan Don Nelson. Caution: May cause nosebleed.

Efficiency of a speaker is determined by the following relationship:

   B² L²
   eff = k * ------------
   Re Sd² Mas²

where
k is a constant determined by the properties of air
B is the magnetic flux density in the gap
L is the length of wire in the magnetic field
Re is the DC resistance
Sd is the radiating area of the cone
Mas is the effective total moving acoustical mass of the driver.

kaya yung mga high power subs mababa impedance at efficiency, kasi makapal at maiksi ang winding (low value of L in the equation) at dahil sa kapal ng wire mas mabigat ang coil (high value of Mas in the equation).

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 05:55 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Mar 20, 2012 at 05:19 PM

Eto yan Don Nelson. Caution: May cause nosebleed.

Efficiency of a speaker is determined by the following relationship:

   B² L²
   eff = k * ------------
   Re Sd² Mas²

where
k is a constant determined by the properties of air
B is the magnetic flux density in the gap
L is the length of wire in the magnetic field
Re is the DC resistance
Sd is the radiating area of the cone
Mas is the effective total moving acoustical mass of the driver.

kaya yung mga high power subs mababa impedance at efficiency, kasi makapal at maiksi ang winding (low value of L in the equation) at dahil sa kapal ng wire mas mabigat ang coil (high value of Mas in the equation).

Nosebleed nga. Dami mo kasing tanong eh.

Eto magandang formula:

Multi-amp + multi-sub system
Don King Markcrenz = --------------------------------------
Ipamahagi mo sa amin mahihirap

Btw, have you seen the voice coil of a soloX sub? Ang laki na ng wires. May nag-DIY, ang pinalit, yun flat copper wires na nakikita ko sa mga welding machines. I dunno paano ang computation niya but the DIYer swears that may increase in SPL.

ATJr. · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 05:58 PM »

mark, di kaya yung L means inductance and not lenght?

markcrenz · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 06:57 PM »

Quote from: TonyT on Mar 20, 2012 at 05:58 PM

mark, di kaya yung L means inductance and not lenght?

Length po talaga, yun turo sa kin nina A.N. Thiele at R.H. Small.

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Mar 20, 2012 at 05:55 PM

Nosebleed nga. Dami mo kasing tanong eh. Eto magandang formula:

Multi-amp + multi-sub system
Don King Markcrenz = --------------------------------------
Ipamahagi mo sa amin mahihirap

Btw, have you seen the voice coil of a soloX sub? Ang laki na ng wires. May nag-DIY, ang pinalit, yun flat copper wires na nakikita ko sa mga welding machines. I dunno paano ang computation niya but the DIYer swears that may increase in SPL.

puchang formula yan! mali! ito tama, Nelson's theory of reproductivity: S=e^x

joko11 · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 09:14 PM »

naloko na!
haha!walang duda..sabi ko na nga ba sa iba na naman mapupunta tong speaker wire thread na to.

hay..pagka haba haba ng prusisyon sa strretfood din ang tuloy ng date

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 20, 2012 at 10:27 PM »

Quote from: joko11 on Mar 20, 2012 at 09:14 PM

naloko na!
haha!walang duda..sabi ko na nga ba sa iba na naman mapupunta tong speaker wire thread na to.
hay..pagka haba haba ng prusisyon sa strretfood din ang tuloy ng date

Megarich po si Don King Markcrenz. Ang streetfood po sa kanya ay ang buffets sa mga 5 star hotels.

vhinx · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 21, 2012 at 06:55 AM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Mar 20, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Megarich po si Don King Markcrenz. Ang streetfood po sa kanya ay ang buffets sa mga 5 star hotels.

hehee, Tag team talaga yan si bro mark at bro Nelson parang magnificent duo...

markcrenz · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 21, 2012 at 11:16 AM »

Quote from: vhinx on Mar 21, 2012 at 06:55 AM

hehee, Tag team talaga yan si bro mark at bro Nelson parang magnificent duo...

sidekick lang po ako ni don nelson

darkn1ght · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 21, 2012 at 12:28 PM »

Got 50m of 12AWG SWAN brand for 35 pesos per meter from Deeco Farmers.
Using them with Audioquest plugs for my 5.0 setup.
Prior to this, I was using Belkin 18AWG Oxygen-Free wires for my fronts and center.