Author Topic: ht redux..  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline Digities

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ht redux..
« on: Oct 30, 2012 at 04:45 AM »
starting out fresh and again and out after a lot of expenditures in audio. decided to go back to ht. i rediscovered what made ht the hobby we all love.

the magic of a movie is that it captures the emotion, stirs the mind and just simply amazes you.. for 2 hours, more or less (4 if you go for the lotr extended editions), you are usually captivated by the idea of the script writer, the director and of course, the producer filled, with beautiful people (actresses and actors) all who have gone through gruelling days of hard work, stunts, months of preparation and memorization, sound mixing which is another several months of preparation, special effects, etc.

we like to capture this "performance" in as much glory as we can... by spending as much as we can on the gear - audio - video. some people have this down to an art.. some people spend too much :p. some people get down to the technicals and try to build a system in an unorthodox way but.. hey maybe the results are actually quite amazing. of course after, or even before, we go to the setup we go through the process of preparing the room.. sometimes we build rooms to house our equipment, or in some special cases, build houses that will give us a better room that in the end will gives us years of enjoyment (it would be nice to take this into decades but that's just looking too far ahead :).). some of us just take whatever's available and make it into some thing special :).

this is my project.. to build an ht around my DRC software (audiolense) - it is actually quite ahead of what we have in our receivers right now (it cost quite a lot.. the price of a receiver), with a receiver just doing channel leveling and ampification and source switching duty, a decent 5.1 setup (working on that).

the brain of my system - my htpc. it's a 2 year old workhorse. lovingly put together and gone through so many iterations - i7, i3, i5, 5850, 6850, 6570, modded soundcards - x-meridian, xonar, x-fi xtreme audio. (these soundcards and the way i set them up sound, to me, quite a bit better, than a lot of cd players i've heard out there.. or maybe the room just sounds great.. for more info - audioasylum's pc audio section is a warehouse of information).

the amp - just a denon 2307 that the well esteemed electrohaus_lp suggested to me.

the speakers - just a bunch of stuff i put together. most of them on "loan"

the room - a spare 25 sq.m. room in our house that i just rescued from being a stockroom of papers and other miscellaneous stuff. it is a square room with standing waves that cause a huge null in the bass between 80 and 120 hz. only a sub can fill that but subs are only good with a crossover at 80hz. thecableco.com suggested i get their cathedral wall panels - these fix standing waves. only 600$ for a set of 4.

as you can see, it is a work in progress..

problems - "spider sense". a ringing in the ear caused by too much high frequency from another setup. this is problematic and helpful in choosing speakers. normally i'd pick any speaker. now i have to find a speaker that is relatively easy on the ears, non fatiguing, non harsh.. just smooth but of course, detail, good  tone, and work well in 2 channel as well as 2.1.

others - etc. the usual.

good luck to me.

best,
les

Offline rthirtyfourgtr

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #1 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 05:01 AM »
i was wondering when someone here would start utilizing commercial PC software for room correction in HT...

i have a slightly different approach in mind though:
A/V receiver with pre-outs / Pre-Pro  -> PC for room correction -> amplifiers

this way, any source device connected to the receiver can have the benefit of powerful room correction processing.

by utilizing external ADCs (i.e. 3 stereo ADCs for 5.1 analog input to the PC), and using HDMI audio out on the PC for media playback, i think it would be possible to set-up the computer for both HTPC and room correction duties independently in one machine as well.


good luck on your project!
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2012 at 05:19 AM by rthirtyfourgtr »
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Offline Digities

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #2 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 05:29 AM »
i was wondering when someone here would start utilizing commercial PC software for room correction in HT...

i have a slightly different approach in mind though:
A/V receiver with pre-outs / Pre-Pro  -> PC for room correction -> amplifiers

this way, any source device connected to the receiver can have the benefit of powerful room correction processing.

by utilizing external ADCs (i.e. 3 stereo ADCs for 5.1 analog input to the PC), and using HDMI audio out on the PC for media playback, i think it would be possible to set-up the computer for both HTPC and room correction duties independently in one machine as well.


good luck on your project!

friend, i have been through many receivers and i really think the digital section on any current or old receiver is sub par to what a soundcard can do. SERIOUSLY :).

what i have is my modded xonar.. (for straight 2 channel music with either jplay or j river) in the CD input section and my modded xtreme audio (close to the xonar.. given that the xonar is really modded and really good to begin with) doing multi channel duties :).

thanks !

Offline Stagea

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #3 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 06:24 AM »
i was wondering when someone here would start utilizing commercial PC software for room correction in HT...

i have a slightly different approach in mind though:
A/V receiver with pre-outs / Pre-Pro  -> PC for room correction -> amplifiers

this way, any source device connected to the receiver can have the benefit of powerful room correction processing.

by utilizing external ADCs (i.e. 3 stereo ADCs for 5.1 analog input to the PC), and using HDMI audio out on the PC for media playback, i think it would be possible to set-up the computer for both HTPC and room correction duties independently in one machine as well.


good luck on your project!

Why double convert (digital to analog, then back to digital for processing) when the data can be in your PC in the first place? This can just add extra latency and signal degradation.

On top of this, using the PC as the playback device could also give you access to cost-effective real-time video processing.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2012 at 06:25 AM by Stagea »

Offline rthirtyfourgtr

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #4 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 06:58 AM »
friend, i have been through many receivers and i really think the digital section on any current or old receiver is sub par to what a soundcard can do. SERIOUSLY :).

what i have is my modded xonar.. (for straight 2 channel music with either jplay or j river) in the CD input section and my modded xtreme audio (close to the xonar.. given that the xonar is really modded and really good to begin with) doing multi channel duties :).

thanks !

matter of debate, but to cut it short - to each his own :)


Why double convert (digital to analog, then back to digital for processing) when the data can be in your PC in the first place? This can just add extra latency and signal degradation.

On top of this, using the PC as the playback device could also give you access to cost-effective real-time video processing.

as i've said in my post:

this way, any source device connected to the receiver can have the benefit of powerful room correction processing.

the goal in this approach is to integrate the PC-based room correction software into a pre-existing system.

with an HDMI input device for the PC (not sure if such a consumer level solution is available,) coupled with HDMI input switcher, and appropriate software setup, i think it's possible to build a pre-pro PC (with integrated HTPC functions if one so desires). this one would skip that extra DAC-ADC step and remove the need for an a/v receiver as well.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2012 at 07:25 AM by rthirtyfourgtr »
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Offline muypogi

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #5 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 06:59 AM »

problems - "spider sense". a ringing in the ear caused by too much high frequency from another setup. this is problematic and helpful in choosing speakers. normally i'd pick any speaker. now i have to find a speaker that is relatively easy on the ears, non fatiguing, non harsh.. just smooth but of course, detail, good  tone, and work well in 2 channel as well as 2.1.

Harbeth ka na kasi Les . . . :-p  Or try one of the new Epos big bookshelf speakers Epic 2 or the Elan 5.

Offline Digities

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #6 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 07:13 AM »
r34gt, unless you want to use a turntable, i would rather use my pc as source. there are just so many soundcards, usb dacs, toys to use.

ivan.. hehehe. wonder nga what to get. i don't get out much to audition e.

Offline rthirtyfourgtr

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #7 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 07:19 AM »
at the risk of sounding like a broken record...

this way, any source device connected to the receiver can have the benefit of powerful room correction processing.

the goal in this approach is to integrate the PC-based room correction software into a pre-existing system.


since the PC is all the source that you would need, that would be perfectly enough for your system. i was just sharing the idea that i have in mind :)
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2012 at 07:25 AM by rthirtyfourgtr »
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Offline Digities

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #8 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 07:30 AM »
at the risk of sounding like a broken record...


since the PC is all the source that you would need, that would be perfectly enough for your system. i was just sharing the idea that i have in mind :)

it is an interesting idea.. :).

have any of you tried windows 8 ? paypal charged me just 1k for a digital download.. been running it since sunday. ok naman. beats my stripped down windows 7 in sq. (i think).

Offline Digities

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #9 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 07:33 AM »
btw, i've been watching the diana krall live in rio concert and i can't get enough of hamilton's drum playing.

i dunno where i heard before but they say the base for any jazz group is the drums...

Offline Stagea

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #10 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 08:03 AM »
the goal in this approach is to integrate the PC-based room correction software into a pre-existing system.

Thanks for expounding further.

with an HDMI input device for the PC (not sure if such a consumer level solution is available,) coupled with HDMI input switcher, and appropriate software setup, i think it's possible to build a pre-pro PC (with integrated HTPC functions if one so desires). this one would skip that extra DAC-ADC step and remove the need for an a/v receiver as well.

HDMI does not allow the lossless stripping of secure HD audio information from the stream, so it's unlikely that there'd be a commercially available input device for the PC that will do this (save for some modified or non-compliant devices). Most sources that employ a digital output are digital anyway -- the functionality may thus be integrated into the computer in this case (optical media, cloud streaming, local and network storage, ota/sat/catv hd receiver-decoder), etc.

I guess the biggest thing stopping major makers from actually utilizing a PC as the heart of an AVR or a Pre-Pro is the fact that it's so easy to hack into (aside from cost, reliability, power consumption, etc. issues).

Offline Stagea

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #11 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 08:15 AM »
ivan.. hehehe. wonder nga what to get. i don't get out much to audition e.

I suggest getting the best speakers in terms of time domain performance (good impulse response and decay characteristics), and look at dispersion characteristics that would fit your intended setup. Output capability should also be considered (together with load compatibility with your amp), so that you can listen at reference levels with minimal distortion.

Frequency domain performance could take a backseat, as your processor can easily take care of that.

Offline Digities

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Re: ht redux..
« Reply #12 on: Oct 30, 2012 at 09:13 AM »
I suggest getting the best speakers in terms of time domain performance (good impulse response and decay characteristics), and look at dispersion characteristics that would fit your intended setup. Output capability should also be considered (together with load compatibility with your amp), so that you can listen at reference levels with minimal distortion.

Frequency domain performance could take a backseat, as your processor can easily take care of that.

audiolense takes care of the time domain. (very well actually. i am running a pair of wharfe's and they sound pretty good for wharfe's. it's the frequency that is more important - finding a speaker that will play nicely with my ears and have as linear a response as possible. i have just ruled out metal domes. after living with a certain set for a few days bigla lumabas yung "ring" as soon as i noticed the highs had sort of a metallic sense to them.