Topic: Newbie & Not-so Noob Thread: Questions (FAQ) on Receivers/Amplifiers

[aHobbit]

^ tnx bro! ask ko lang din dun sympre yung performance n quality of output nila

there are a number of varying models and levels of implementation on both types, varying power, varying designs, varying cost - very hard to generalize as to compare QUALITY? of output (is often dependent on what is being driven and what source is being used)

[dimfer]

Hi folks, I've been registered here for a while and had visited this site a number of times to ask a few questions. I am a also a forumer at WS registered as tube newbie.

My question this time is - what pre/pro and amps do you guys recommend for an ht system that would excel also in 2 channel? I hate flipping gears and want to do it right from the get go. Like everybody else in audio hobby, I've flipped gears, some at steep losses. I've been through MBL 5011 preamp, New Audio Frontiers 845SE Integrated, Innersound ESL300, Oracle Delphi TT, Garrard 301 and so on.

My current main setup is composed of
Accentus A101SE (upscale version of Aurum Cantus Grand Supreme)
Antique Sound Labs Flora EX DT with Mundorf upgrades & Mullard ECC-32 tubes
Antique Sound Labs Hurricane with Valve  Art KT88s and Raytheon 6SN7s
MBL 1511 DAC
MBL CD player (used as transport)
Copland DRC 205
All Virtual Dynamics Nite 3.0 cables
Garrard Lab 80 Mk 2 with DV 10x5
Allnic H-1200 phono
SVS 20-39 PC Plus (x2)

I have no dedicated room and this is located in my approx 26' x 28' family room in the basement (I'm in Canada btw). While this system is performing very well, I  still yearn for a good HT. Me and my wife are suckers for movies, we regularly watch movies at theaters and still rent dvds quite a bit. How bad is it - we used to live close to CM Recto (circa late 80s) and there were numerous times that we cannot watch movies anymore because we've seen them all. We actually watched a standing room only movie hours before my wife went into labor on our first baby.

I have a second system composed Sony 50" LCD, Arcam AVR 300 and Pioneer DVD Player which we use for movies (for now). I know I will be a music lover for a long time and intending to upgrade to a pair of Von Scheweikert VR5SE for my basement system and move the Accentus to the second system.

My dream is to have a 120" screen HT with killer sound. I don't really care for the multichannel sound. Just a good front and center and a decent projector. My house has been wired with 2 surround speakers in the ceiling. I was seriously considering to upgrade to more exotic 2 channel setup - but deep inside me, I know I will be happier if I could shoot 2 birds at a time (audio/video).

I want to keep as much equipment as possible and replace as little as possible.

My shortlist includes Anthem D2, Lexicon MC 12, Sony ES Blu Ray... budget is around US$15k for pre/pro, amps & projector. At dahil Pinoy tayo, syempre I prefer items that are good value for the money, and willing to buy used.

Your recommendations/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ding

[av_phile1]

My dream is to have a 120" screen HT with killer sound. I don't really care for the multichannel sound.

A "killer sound" in HT can't be complete without the enveloping sound possible only with the right multichannel set-up.  And a couple of really powerful and deep subwoofers in different room placements.

For a killer pre/pro that is great for stereo as well, you can also look at the Meridian, Aragon, Sunfire or Krell line-up if available in your area.  The flagship Krell Evolution 707 is an 8.4 channel pre/pro that can form the heart of your HT system and should take care of your HT and stereo needs for a long time. Its listed at just $20T but I'm sure you can have a pre-owned one to fit your budget.  There's a cheaper Krell KAV S-1000 but the Anthem Statement D2 has more features and a better value for the money.

If you insist on just the fronts and center, there are a number of 3-channel power amps out there, like the Krell Evo 403.  Also in the same price range as the 707 but it's worth it.  Ofcourse almost nothing beats the Krell Evolution 900 monoblocks with 6KVA power supplies.  You just add more monoblocks as you go up from stereo to 5 channels up to 8. That should really be a "killer" sound if there's ever one.  

There's the much cheaper Aragon 8008X5 multichannel power amp that's well-reviewed for its value and excellent stereo performance as well. Or the more refined Meridian 558.   SHould even be cheaper by now as these models are already old.  But as power amplifiers go, they're basically timeless. You can also checkout some Bryston power amps with their 20-year transferable warranties.  Just google-search and check out some reviews on the net for these brands/models.

And don't forget about the revolutionary Audyssey dynamic/multi EQ box in between the pre/pro and the power amp.  Forget about any audiophile attitude about equalizers, this is entirely different.  It's almost a no-brainer to have one for a trully "killer" multichannel HT surround sound.  Google the term to learn about it (http://www.audyssey.com/soundequalizer/index.html)

And for screens, I personally prefer active displays like LCDs and Plasmas over projectors. You may want to wait a little longer for Sharp to release their 100" LCDs (if they haven't already). 

Or you can just add another Antique Sound Labs power amp and just pour your budget on a Krell flagship pre/pro.  That way you can have a multi-channel all tube powered HT set-up.   

Lastly, look for a sealed type subwoofer with at least 500 watts of RMS power that can go down to 20Hz at +-3db. A sealed enclosure type is good for a more musical and accurate bass but there are also some well designed vented subwoofers out there like Velodyne, SVS and Rel Acoustics. And among the REL subs, I'd prefer the sealed R505 series.  At least two of those in different room placements can better offset room modes for a smoother in-room bass response than having just one. That Krell Evo 707 can have 4 subwoofers for an even smoother bass response. 

The recommendations above might require you to add some more to your $15T budget. 

[streetsmart]

My take:

Firstly, I agree that you can't have a killer HT sound without a complete surround system.

My suggestions, considering value for money:
1. Projector - JVC RS2
2. Prepro - Denon 3808, which already includes Audyssey MultEQ XT
3. Sub - 2 pcs Axiom EP-500 or Paradigm Servo-15 (cuz you live in Canada so you may get it cheaper); you need 2 kasi laki ng room mo
4. Screen - Da-Lite 120" screen; maybe 1.3 gain
5. Speakers - Not familiar with your current speakers but I would suggest PSB (Canadian again) Synchrony for left, center and right. You can get cheaper ones for surround cuz it doesn't really matter very much.
6. Power amps - I suggest you put that on hold till you hear the Denon. Might be sufficient. Otherwise, you can get Bryston (Canadian pa rin) 5-channel amp
7. DVD player - Oppo 983
8. BD player - PS3

Good luck!

[dana]

Hi Dimfer,

Your thread title seems underrated...
The gears you listed down & currently owned does not qualify you as newbie
I can only  imagine the gears you are using now and the hi-end gears you wish to own in future to get that killer HT sound.
Maybe, you should also consider a dedicated HT room to get that killer HT sound
Good luck on your quest.

[av_phile1]

I suppose what the OP meant by "Newbie" is being new at HT. Though he's an "oldie" in stereo.    There are many like that.   Many avid stereophiles who once shunned multichannels are now realizing what they're missing.   That's because they didn't give the same painstaking effort to optimize a multichannel set-up the way they did with their stereo gears.  Because if they did, the proper multichannel project can be more than twice as expensive as the investments they've put into their stereo set-ups. 

Just to add another advise for multichannel HT use often overlooked by "newbies," is the aspect of tuning or calibrating the channels.  It goes further than stereo in making sure you can optimize the enveloping surround sound as well as ensuring seamless integration between subwoofers and the main speakers.  These things did not exist when using just 2-channel stereo. But take heart, having the Audyssey MultiEQ makes this aspect a breeze.    (But more expensive.)

[dimfer]

I suppose what the OP meant by "Newbie" is being new at HT. Though he's an "oldie" in stereo.    There are many like that.   Many avid stereophiles who once shunned multichannels are now realizing what they're missing.   That's because they didn't give the same painstaking effort to optimize a multichannel set-up the way they did with their stereo gears.  Because if they did, the proper multichannel project can be more than twice as expensive as the investments they've put into their stereo set-ups. 

Just to add another advise for multichannel HT use often overlooked by "newbies," is the aspect of tuning or calibrating the channels.  It goes further than stereo in making sure you can optimize the enveloping surround sound as well as ensuring seamless integration between subwoofers and the main speakers.  These things did not exist when using just 2-channel stereo. But take heart, having the Audyssey MultiEQ makes this aspect a breeze.    (But more expensive.)

thanks guys for the input

I've always owned a mass market/entry level HT. I was very happy with the performance of my Arcam AVR 300 system and this encouraged me to go deeper into the audio side. I am really not a techie guy that's why 2 channel is the more natural path for me. I've owned the AVR 300 since it's early release but I haven't fully comprehended everything on the manual  . This is the same reason I have not gone deeper into analog as analog gears need to be constantly tweaked to get best performance.

One thing I truly regret is not having a dedicated audio/ht room. We built our current residence in 2005 and I was really into aquahobby (arowanas) back then, so, I have a fish room, but no dedicated audio room. If I could start all over again, I would probably encorporate the 2 as I am still into arowanas.

I've checked out most of the suggested gears (Krells, Meridians, Brystons, PSBs,Denon,Anthem, etc) but somehow I decided to go with the tube electronics because I find them more musical with my speakers. MBLs are well respected SS gears in 2 channel world, but I replaced it with ASL Flora which is only a quarter of it's $13k cost because I like the tonality of the Flora better. As for speakers, I am quite decided on Von Scheweikerts, I've checked them out in CES last January and I like them.

The Audyssey must be really good, as it is highly recommended here. I think it works the same way as the Copland DRC 205, which I already have in my 2 channel system. I am also a big believer of these products. Well, I had to resort to it because my wife will not be very happy with bass traps and room treatments. As for powered subs, I already have a pair of SVS 20-39 PC Plus (killer products for the money). I am a sucker for full range sound, I have the SVS & the DRC 205 calibrated/tuned to 16hz.

I will do more reading, but don't be surprised to find out that I went ahead with Bose Lifestyle 48  BTW, what's wrong with Bose 

thanks again for the input..keep them coming

[av_phile1]

BTW, what's wrong with Bose 

If you don't mind spending for an overpriced piece of mediocrity, then go Bose.     You can check about it in many AV forums, including a couple of threads here.

Read more here:
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

[MAtZTER]

I also agree with sir AV on the necessity of the surround channels... and Audessy rocks. Dont forget to treat your room.

Anthem pre-pro (since you are in Canada) with the Gennum video processor plus a power amp with balanced & unbalanced connection would be recommended for an all in one setup w/ tubes.

Connect a tube pre-amp to the unbalanced connection and then the balanced to the pre/pro.

[av_phile1]

The Audyssey must be really good, as it is highly recommended here. I think it works the same way as the Copland DRC 205, which I already have in my 2 channel system. I am also a big believer of these products. Well, I had to resort to it because my wife will not be very happy with bass traps and room treatments.

As for accoustic room treatments, there's really nothing to it that the wife won't appreciate.  It's really just about making the room less reverberant for mids and highs.  A simple floor carpeting and using heavy drapes, fabric sofas and throw pillows, large foliage plants near or behind speakers, textured paint or thick wallpapers and open shelves with figurines and clothbound books will do nicely to decay mid and high frequency reverbs. These are things we normally do to spice up room interiors.  Cloth-bound panels like in office dividers can also help.  Even micro-blinds or vertical cloth blinds on windows will do to diffuse much of the mids and highs.   Accoustic ceilings won't even be necessary as long as no two opposite surfaces enclosing your sound sources are reflective.  A thick carpet or rug will do.  A certain degree of liveliness in the room accoustics is just find.  You don't want to have a totally accoustically dead listening room where you can hear blood gushing through your ears.  It's entirely unlivable. 

When it comes to bass frequencies, bass traps are great but that's were the wife might start to object.  This may not be all necessary if you have two or more subwoofers in different room locations to smoothen bass response.  And the Audyssey EQ can do wonders here but bear in mind that it can't do sonic miracles in a room that's quite reverberant.  Treat the room as best you can and the Audyssey will do the rest. 

[hoc]

Hi,

Im a newbie trying to set up an HT set up for my 36 sq m studio condo. I'd like to ask for help on an appropriate reciever to use. I plan to get wharfedale 9.1 bookshelf front speakers a center and a sub for now. rear speakers are under consideration and may or may not follow.

what are the reciever specs I should watch out for? and what brands and models would you recommend? I read about HDMI and upscaler recievers in this forum - what do they mean exactly? I have a 37 ' Regza TV, and I have a Toshiba HDMI player/upscaler so I understand it from that context. May difference din ba kung HDMI and may upscaler yung AVR o wala?

I got a recommendation to try out Yamaha RXV361 -  I know this is an entry level AVR, but will this allow me to maximize my speakers? I listen to music a lot aside from watching movies.

Your inputs would be appreciated. budget ia 15 to 20 K.

[alx]

bro, i suggest u try out harman kardon.. ung series '3 nya im sure maganda tunog nyan sa wharf mo! 

iv heard yamaha 659 hook up with wharf fs di maganda para sakin un sound. 

much better if u can do demo..

[ramsey]

Me nakita ko HK135 for sale sa OLX pilipinas.com. Me kasama 2front,center,surrond. 25k. Kaya lang sa bandang Marilao. Kung type mo 2nd hand.

[blackie]

You could a get a Denon with that budget, and I saw one with HDMI connectivity na at this price range

[Lancito]

Definitely Denon.

[blackie]

Quick to Second that Lancito Yeheah!

[eksi]

Denon 1508.  Don't forget to audition first.

[hoc]

Thank you for the replies. How much po kaya yung Denon 1508? I went to the shops in Mega and Shangrila - those carrying Wharfdale recommended Pioneer RxV361. Ok na daw yun for the size of my condo unit (36 sq mtr, but the HT will just be in a portion of it). Any feedback on this AVR, and how it compares with other brands?

[hoc]

Sorry I meant Pioneer VSX 517. I am choosing between this and Yamaha RXV 361. So far these are the two receivers that fit into my budget. How do these 2 compare?

[eksi]

Thank you for the replies. How much po kaya yung Denon 1508? I went to the shops in Mega and Shangrila - those carrying Wharfdale recommended Pioneer RxV361. Ok na daw yun for the size of my condo unit (36 sq mtr, but the HT will just be in a portion of it). Any feedback on this AVR, and how it compares with other brands?

Denon 1508 costs P19k ata...
There's someone posted Onkyo 506 sa marketplace P18.5k...
I suggest you audition this two receivers

[hoc]

Thank you sir - Denon 1508 costs P 19,800 sa Listen Up Glorietta. Yung Onkyo 506, P 18,500. Halos pareho lang specs nung dalawa. Ano kaya ang mas maganda?

I play music 60% of the time and HT 40%. Ano kaya ang mas maganda sa dalawa with wharf speakers?

[Lancito]

Denon again....definitely.

[Toslink]

iv heard yamaha 659 hook up with wharf fs di maganda para sakin un sound. 

much better if u can do demo..

currently using these combo, 659/wharfs (9.5)... very good for audio and syempre HT!  ... to spice up my setup i added 5ch bada power amp to give my 659/wharfs enough juice to sing out loud!!!...   

[mholtz2000]

Thank you sir - Denon 1508 costs P 19,800 sa Listen Up Glorietta. Yung Onkyo 506, P 18,500. Halos pareho lang specs nung dalawa. Ano kaya ang mas maganda?

I play music 60% of the time and HT 40%. Ano kaya ang mas maganda sa dalawa with wharf speakers?

bro, go for Harman / kardon, your speakers is british design, HK is also US and British design, perfect match yan. check mo din forum ng HK and Wharfdale. you can get an idea also. HK 145 around 19k na lang yan

[reynold]

I'll go with the receivers with "Pre-out" for future upgrades, there is a Denon 1907 which is currently posted in B&S section, you may want to try it, i believe may Pre-out yun pre, i'm not sure pero check mo na rin

Goodluck

[kobe0927]

Hi!

Hingi lang po ako ng advise. What would be the best receiver for my wharfedale moviestart 60+ 5.1 speakers?
Below are the specs:

KEY FEATURES
Function: System
Nominal Power: 10 Watt RMS
Cabling: Cable

SYSTEM
Peak Power Handling: 100 Watt
Frequency Reponse: 140 Hz - 20,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 87 dB
Impedance: 4 Ohm

COMPONENTS
Woofer Material: Polymer Composite
Woofer Size: 6'
Subwoofer Power    100 Watt
Midrange Size: 3'

My budget is 15K - 17K.

Thanks in advance.

[looks]

you can get an entry level receiver like onkyo.  i think below 18k yun.. kaya naman na yan idrive yung speakers mo.  or if you want a mid level receiver, you check out the buy & sell section. so many to choose from. 

[CS_SoundAndVision]

sir, may i recommend fresh of the line. a perfect companion to your system.


http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=81351.0

[kobe0927]

many thanks mga sir

[kobe0927]

sir, may i recommend fresh of the line. a perfect companion to your system.


http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=81351.0

sir, seen the impedance specs (8ohms) for this model, would there be no problem with my 4ohms speaker?
pls. forgive my ignorance