Topic: Speaker Comparisons

[Superman]

Some reviews about the Dali Concept 6:

What Hi-fi (UK) wrote; "...offers a large, well-defined soundstage with excellent effects location and plenty of breathing space."

"Good effects placement; convincing soundstage; agile bass presentation"

"It produces a sound of considerable authority."


Lyd & Bild (Sound & Vision) Magazine (Norway) wrote; "The soundstage is tight with  surprising resolution, instead of a huge and slow bass, it has a richness of details and plenty of treble."

"Concept 6 has qualities we do not normally connect with floorstanding speakers in this price class."



...but again, better audtion...thanks! 

[old_age]

Newbiedin,

went to the same confusing course when i was hunting for a pair of floorstanders late last year... like you, i narrowed down my choices to these two speakers.... but in my case, i will use the speakers for a tube set-up then and not for HT as i am very much pleased with my all Mission M70 series set with the Onkyo 601.... you did not mentioned on your post if the tests that you underwent to AB these speakers used a single wire for each brand because the Dali Concept 6 is not biwirable while the AE Evo 3 is; secondly, were the two brands fully broken-in when you tested; was the room treated or in a basic concrete, wood and what have you condition?  This is vital because these are the three important considerations when i decided which to buy.   

Admittedly, the Concept 6 will really astound everyone even at out of the box testing as it is very dynamic, lively the HIs bloom, the bass rocks for me and the looks' a killer.  But the upgrade path is limited, not biwirable and sand-fillable. 

 The AE Evo 3 is factory sand-filled (you can even add some more to yuor heart's content) and when biwired will bring you to a different level, totally different when wired singly, as if a different speaker is singing.  Furthermore, out of the box, the AE Evo 3 will not leave any impressive performance to buyers as it sounded like what the others say Nakakantok pakinggan, but wait till you hear it when fully broken in.  I don't know if how many of us here have already listened to a thousand times to the AE Evo 3 playing RUSH's Tom Sawyer, Red Barchetta, 2112, La Villa Strangiato and ACDC's Highway to Hell, Back in Black, For those who want to Rock We Salute you, or Led Zeppelin's Ten Year's Gone, The Song Remains the Same with justice.  I personally disagree that the Evo 3 is nakakaantok if you are really familiar with the songs above.  Hindi duduguin ang tenga mo with the Evo 3 if you play rock music to the max all day. 

This is me.

[Superman]

nice comments, new age! this only means one thing...audition audition PLUS personal preference talaga pa rin after all...very detailed review, pare! galing!

[vvt-i]

newbiedin,

if you think dali concept 6 is for you........meron 2 pairs sa buy and sell section that you can get at a very friendly price.  if i'm not mistaken the other pair is already reserved(baka ikaw na yung nagpa reserve).  . 

[Superman]

newbiedin,

if you think dali concept 6 is for you........meron 2 pairs sa buy and sell section that you can get at a very friendly price.  if i'm not mistaken the other pair is already reserved(baka ikaw na yung nagpa reserve).  . 

pards, salamat sa endorsement!

[newbie pa rin]

Thanks to all your input guys.

Am really having a hard time to decide which is which.

Dali is better looking than AE but is not bi-wireable.
For AE you can bi-wire it.

From all the comments I read only AE has a real negative feedback nakakaantok pakinggan.
But review shows that AE is better than Dali

Hirap mamili, if only I have more money to spend on a higher Dali model...
Better go back and audition some more.

Thanks for all your feedback guys.

[brandon]

Some reviews about the Dali Concept 6:


Lyd & Bild (Sound & Vision) Magazine (Norway) wrote; "The soundstage is tight with  surprising resolution, instead of a huge and slow bass, it has a richness of details and plenty of treble."

Not having auditioned Dali speakers but having read
many remarks about Dali being 'detailed' and having
'plenty of treble' gives me the impression Dali speakers
are really 'bright' sounding.

For those who have auditioned Dali speakers...
Are they really 'bright' sounding (in the negative sense
of the word)?

[bumblebee]

...
For those who have auditioned Dali speakers...
Are they really 'bright' sounding (in the negative sense
of the word)?

Not as "bright" as those w/ metal tweets.

[old_age]

Thanks to all your input guys.

Am really having a hard time to decide which is which.

Dali is better looking than AE but is not bi-wireable.
For AE you can bi-wire it.

From all the comments I read only AE has a real negative feedback nakakaantok pakinggan.
But review shows that AE is better than Dali

Hirap mamili, if only I have more money to spend on a higher Dali model...
Better go back and audition some more.

Thanks for all your feedback guys.

there is one option left...go to my pad today if you are free, in mandaluyong, my number is 0919-680-50-20, di ako pumasok sa office today...and find out for yourself if AE is really nakakaantok as claimed by others whom i hope are real users of AE ...the good thing about it, i go for progressive rock music and that is really fast sounding type of music.  AE is typically garbage in, garbage out .... no coloration. if you play Stacey Kent East of the Sun, Salena Jones You Don't Bring Me Flowers, Jane Monheit In the Still of the Night... aantokin ka talaga.

A guitar like Fender Statocaster will not sound like a Telecaster... a Gibson Les Paul will not sound like a Lumanog!

Bring your fastest sounding cds.

This is me.

[brandon]

Not as "bright" as those w/ metal tweets.

So B&W 600 series speakers with aluminum dome tweets
sound 'brighter'?  I thought many find the 600 series
'warm' sounding.

[bumblebee]

Dali Concepts use fabric domes. All else being equal, I don't think they can be "brighter" than those w/ metal tweets.

And for me, the AE's are not nakakaantok. And Dali's are not too bright. Hindi ka naman masisiraan ng bait if you'll pick one over the other.

PS
Those DM 600 S3's are lovely speakers.

[jerix]

All EARS may look the same but are not created equal 

[old_age]

Dali Concepts use fabric domes. All else being equal, I don't think they can be "brighter" than those w/ metal tweets.

And for me, the AE's are not nakakaantok. And Dali's are not too bright. Hindi ka naman masisiraan ng bait if you'll pick one over the other.

PS
Those DM 600 S3's are lovely speakers.

i agree in all aspects of your opinion.

[brandon]

Dali Concepts use fabric domes. All else being equal, I don't think they can be "brighter" than those w/ metal tweets.

This comment gives me the impression that the tweeter material
determines the speaker's overall sound character
(that is, whether it is 'bright' or 'warm'). 

You are essentially saying it is impossible for speakers with fabric domes
to sound any 'brighter' than those with metal dome tweeters.
I think this generalization is wrong. 

Bose acoustimass speakers are made of cheap Manila hemp
and don't have dedicated tweeters.   Do you honestly think they
do not sound brighter than say, Wharfedales or B&W's?

The characteristic 'brightness' of a speaker is not a mere function
of the tweeter material it is made of.  It is a function of the whole package
of which the midrange and bass drivers also play a crucial role. 

In fact, the midrange and bass reproduction can have more impact
on the overall speaker sound (whether 'bright' or 'warm') than the
tweeters alone.  Remember that the tweeter only produces a narrow
range of frequencies compared to the frequencies produced by
the bass and midrange drivers.  Tweeters also produce only a small
fraction of the SPL levels produced by the midrange and bass drivers
which makes the bass and midrange drivers (particularly the midrange)
more controlling of the overall tonal character of the whole speaker package
than the tweeters alone.

[bumblebee]

Hi brandon.

I am not an expert but let me explain my side based on the things that I know. You can, of course, correct me and that would be much appreciated.

For me "brightness", has more to do w/ highs frequencies. Too loud highs, for me, is bright. Emphasized midrange, for me, is not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the tweeter that produces the wider range of frequencies? High frequencies start at 5KHz and assuming the crossover is at 5K, that's a 15K range for the tweeter.

[kimpao]

All EARS may look the same but are not created equal 

BULLSEYE! Na DaLi mo pre! Musta na!?.....


Dali, AE, MA, Wharfedale, Mission, MS = YMMV

newdbiedin, Depende na sa iyo yun kung ano ang type mo.  Ikaw ang makikinig at gagastos hindi yun mga tao sa tabi mo.    Better to consider the following pointers rather than listening to others :
                     
                       1. Do you like it?
                       2. Budget - Do you have the money? Are you willing to spend for it?
                       3. Room/Space - Room size, room acoustics
                       4. Equipment - What amp will be driving it? What cables/wires are going to use?

[H a n $]

Bright speaker... try to listen to them for a couple hours then tsaka mag conclude.

[brandon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the tweeter that produces the wider range of frequencies?
High frequencies start at 5KHz and assuming the crossover is at 5K, that's a 15K range for the
tweeter.

Yes, it's a wider range NUMERICALLY SPEAKING, but you should remember that musical content
from 5KHz - 20KHz is very small compared to the musical content below that range (20 Hz - 5KHz).
It is for this reason that some speakers, even without a dedicated tweeter like the Bose acoustimass
cubes can still sound 'bright'. 

[Ragnar]

Bi-wirable is not necessarilly better.  In fact, some manufacturers have gone from Bi-wireable to Single wireable na lang.

The best thing to do is listen to the Evo bi-wired then compare it to the Dalis.

Sa sand filling naman, pwede mo naman i sand fill karamihan ng speakers. 

If you are happy with the EVO3, that's excellent.  Just keep an open mind.  Pag ma expose ka pa sa maraming speakers and systems, maybe you'll find out that there are speakers that can do better with rock music.

Just my 2 cents

Newbiedin,

went to the same confusing course when i was hunting for a pair of floorstanders late last year... like you, i narrowed down my choices to these two speakers.... but in my case, i will use the speakers for a tube set-up then and not for HT as i am very much pleased with my all Mission M70 series set with the Onkyo 601.... you did not mentioned on your post if the tests that you underwent to AB these speakers used a single wire for each brand because the Dali Concept 6 is not biwirable while the AE Evo 3 is; secondly, were the two brands fully broken-in when you tested; was the room treated or in a basic concrete, wood and what have you condition?  This is vital because these are the three important considerations when i decided which to buy.   

Admittedly, the Concept 6 will really astound everyone even at out of the box testing as it is very dynamic, lively the HIs bloom, the bass rocks for me and the looks' a killer.  But the upgrade path is limited, not biwirable and sand-fillable. 

 The AE Evo 3 is factory sand-filled (you can even add some more to yuor heart's content) and when biwired will bring you to a different level, totally different when wired singly, as if a different speaker is singing.  Furthermore, out of the box, the AE Evo 3 will not leave any impressive performance to buyers as it sounded like what the others say Nakakantok pakinggan, but wait till you hear it when fully broken in.  I don't know if how many of us here have already listened to a thousand times to the AE Evo 3 playing RUSH's Tom Sawyer, Red Barchetta, 2112, La Villa Strangiato and ACDC's Highway to Hell, Back in Black, For those who want to Rock We Salute you, or Led Zeppelin's Ten Year's Gone, The Song Remains the Same with justice.  I personally disagree that the Evo 3 is nakakaantok if you are really familiar with the songs above.  Hindi duduguin ang tenga mo with the Evo 3 if you play rock music to the max all day. 

This is me.

[bumblebee]

Yes, it's a wider range NUMERICALLY SPEAKING, but you should remember that musical content
from 5KHz - 20KHz is very small compared to the musical content below that range (20 Hz - 5KHz).
It is for this reason that some speakers, even without a dedicated tweeter like the Bose acoustimass
cubes can still sound 'bright'.

Ok, I get you. But, tweeters can be made to do midrange too, depending on the crossover frequency.

Are you referring to those Bose cubes? A 2-inch driver is not enough for bass. 'Bright' nga.

[Ragnar]

Hi Brandon,

I agree with bumblebee.  Ang importante sa speakers is yung pagka integrate ng mga drivers.  Kung kulang ang bass, magiging pronounced ang highs kaya mukhang bright.  Actually, ang brightness sa akin is either upper mids and highs.  Kaya hindi lang tweeter.

God Bless

Hi brandon.

I am not an expert but let me explain my side based on the things that I know. You can, of course, correct me and that would be much appreciated.

For me "brightness", has more to do w/ highs frequencies. Too loud highs, for me, is bright. Emphasized midrange, for me, is not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the tweeter that produces the wider range of frequencies? High frequencies start at 5KHz and assuming the crossover is at 5K, that's a 15K range for the tweeter.

[old_age]

Bi-wirable is not necessarilly better.  In fact, some manufacturers have gone from Bi-wireable to Single wireable na lang.

The best thing to do is listen to the Evo bi-wired then compare it to the Dalis.

Sa sand filling naman, pwede mo naman i sand fill karamihan ng speakers. 

If you are happy with the EVO3, that's excellent.  Just keep an open mind.  Pag ma expose ka pa sa maraming speakers and systems, maybe you'll find out that there are speakers that can do better with rock music.

Just my 2 cents :

Hey, i have an open mind!  and didn't i post that that was me... that's my preference and actual experience.  you have no idea how vast my exposure to speakers is .... and besides, the discussion is only on Dali vs. AE.... i did not even influence everyone to buy AE because sound is subjective... 

[D0Hbert]

Actually, speakers seem to be bright  sounding not only because of an inbalance in the loudness of drivers, but more importantly, if there is a peak around a 2-octave range, for example 2k to 8k, the speaker will seem to be bright, even if the tweeter is properly padded or more attenuated than the midrange. Thus, even assuming you have a speaker, with a single full range driver, it may seem bright, if there is an impedance peak that is not properly padded or if there's rise/peak in the response curve, covering 2 octaves, the speaker will still sound bright even without a tweeter. I read somewhere that most music covers frequencies below 10khz, bihira lang ang mas mataas dito, and kung tumatanda tayo, mas mahirap madinig ang higher frequencies, parang nagiging 16khz nalang ang limit ng hearing pag tumatanda. So given yung paghina ng hearing natin and the amoung of musical information above the 10khz range is limited, some speaker do still sound "bright" because of this 2-octave range peak. For those who DIY or mod speakers, ang kadalasan na remedy sa "hot" na tweeter or even midrange is to place a series cap and resistor parallel to the driver, this is an impedance peak correcting network, used to tame yung impedance peak, resulting to a mellower sound. So that's why we say those bose mini drivers are bright, its because of an impedance peak at the higher octaves na pinabayaan nalang malamang ng designer to give the small midrange driver some high frequency output. Hope this helps. 

[brandon]

Actually, speakers seem to be bright  sounding not only because of an inbalance in the loudness of drivers, but more importantly, if there is a peak around a 2-octave range, for example 2k to 8k, the speaker will seem to be bright, even if the tweeter is properly padded or more attenuated than the midrange. Thus, even assuming you have a speaker, with a single full range driver, it may seem bright, if there is an impedance peak that is not properly padded or if there's rise/peak in the response curve, covering 2 octaves, the speaker will still sound bright even without a tweeter. I read somewhere that most music covers frequencies below 10khz, bihira lang ang mas mataas dito, and kung tumatanda tayo, mas mahirap madinig ang higher frequencies, parang nagiging 16khz nalang ang limit ng hearing pag tumatanda. So given yung paghina ng hearing natin and the amoung of musical information above the 10khz range is limited, some speaker do still sound "bright" because of this 2-octave range peak. For those who DIY or mod speakers, ang kadalasan na remedy sa "hot" na tweeter or even midrange is to place a series cap and resistor parallel to the driver, this is an impedance peak correcting network, used to tame yung impedance peak, resulting to a mellower sound. So that's why we say those bose mini drivers are bright, its because of an impedance peak at the higher octaves na pinabayaan nalang malamang ng designer to give the small midrange driver some high frequency output. Hope this helps. 

Thanks DOHbert.  Very well explained.  This explanation settles the 'brightness' issue...
That aluminum dome tweeters do not necessarily mean that the speakers using them
will always sound brighter than those using fabric domes or those without any 'real'
tweeters to speak of.

Actually, if you notice along B&W lines, the 700 series is generally considered 'bright' while the
600 series is generally considered to be 'warm' by many.  They both bear the same aluminum
dome tweeters and kevlar midrange yet have different sonic characteristics.
 

[qguy]

just to add... one popular or legendary "sweet" sounding speakers were the Celestions Sl 6 series (6, 6s, 6si, 600 and 700) had aluminum and copper tweeters

[D0Hbert]

Pahabol din about construction of tweeters, metallic dome tweeters per se are not brighter/hotter than fiber/cloth dome tweeters, though they sound more detailed and metallic. They will sound bright because of the way the tweeter was used in the crossover design. Metal dome tweeters generally have lower impedance peaks than their cloth dome counterparts, because of this, speaker designers push the crossover point much lower than what they will try with cloth domes, or if both cloth and metal dome tweeters were used with the same cutoff frequency, kadalasan mas steep ang cutoff na gamit sa cloth since malapit na or exacto sa impedance peak ang cutoff, for example 2khz (which is the x-over point usually used) the designer will probably use a 2nd or 3rd order for the cloth, pero sa metal dome, pwede pang gamitan ng 1st or 2nd order at 2k, kasi mababa yung impedance peak nila, generally nasa 1k or 750hz range. So pag nag 1st order sa tweeter at 2khz, yung next octave na 1khz is just 6db lower and exacto pas sa peak nya, kaya kulang ang pag-pad, therefore parang bright sya, although ang nag-cause nito ay 1khz lang. 

[bumblebee]

Question: Assuming we are beyond the cutoff, would the "metallic" nature of the tweeter greatly affect the "brightness" or "warmness" of the speaker?

[john5479]

no. assuming all the drivers are operating at their ideal frequency range, it wouldn't matter whether your tweeter is metallic or not.

[D0Hbert]

Cutoff of which driver? Tweeter or midrange? If the midrange is forced to produce high frequencies, the tendency is for the speaker to shout, parang pag pinakinggan, strained ang voice ng singer. If the tweeter on the other hand is made to produce the low frequencies of 1khz, then it will distort, and whether it is metallic or soft dome. Again, pag nakaroon ng peak covering 2 octaves, magiging bright and sibilant yung tunog. Also, mabilis mapundi yung tweeter if forced into distortion. 

[bumblebee]

For frequencies above the crossover cutoff.