Author Topic: Connecting an AV receiver w/o preouts to a power amplifier (Read 12590 times)

Timithekid · « **Reply #30 on:** Sep 22, 2012 at 04:11 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Sep 22, 2012 at 04:02 PM

You would need 3-4 of these in a simple 5.1 system. At $60 X 3 pcs = $180. Baka better pa if you sell your receiver, idagdag sa pambili mo yun para jan, then abang sa MP kung may magbenta. Yun LOC ko cost P900 ata. Baka masmura yun.

I'm thinking nga master Nelson na ipa Diy ko na lang, $180 is no freakin joke, kung ganon benta ko na nga lang pio 921 ko then i'll get an onkyo 709 or yammy 771

amateur37 · « **Reply #31 on:** Sep 22, 2012 at 09:10 PM »

I think one carver z-5 is all you need if you're going to use a 5 channel power amplifier, the z-5 has a five speaker input and a 5 channel rca output that is to be connected to your power amp. I bought my z5 off ebay in 2003 then gave it to my brother after a year. Manual n lang natira sakin he he

Pero mas maganda pa din kung may built in pre out na yung a/v receiver.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #32 on:** Sep 22, 2012 at 10:07 PM »

5 channel pala.

Tempter · « **Reply #33 on:** Sep 22, 2012 at 10:21 PM »

Quote from: Timithekid on Sep 22, 2012 at 04:11 PM

I'm thinking nga master Nelson na ipa Diy ko na lang, $180 is no freakin joke, kung ganon benta ko na nga lang pio 921 ko then i'll get an onkyo 709 or yammy 771

Go for the yammy!

Timithekid · « **Reply #34 on:** Oct 01, 2012 at 03:00 PM »

Sir mark i got the loc and rca's. thank you! Feedback left.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #35 on:** Oct 01, 2012 at 04:59 PM »

Quote from: Timithekid on Oct 01, 2012 at 03:00 PM

Sir mark i got the loc and rca's. thank you! Feedback left.

Reviews naman sa project mo.

Timithekid · « **Reply #36 on:** Oct 01, 2012 at 05:08 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Oct 01, 2012 at 04:59 PM

Reviews naman sa project mo.

As soon as i hook it up Master Nelson i'll provide a review. But basing it on craftsmanship alone, this is a nice project. And to think i went cheap on the binding posts, meron si Mark na transparent type which makes the Line out converter look even better.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #37 on:** Oct 01, 2012 at 05:13 PM »

Quote from: Timithekid on Oct 01, 2012 at 05:08 PM

As soon as i hook it up Master Nelson i'll provide a review. But basing it on craftsmanship alone, this is a nice project. And to think i went cheap on the binding posts, meron si Mark na transparent type which makes the Line out converter look even better.

Ok lang yun. hindi naman makikita yan.

markcrenz · « **Reply #38 on:** Oct 01, 2012 at 05:47 PM »

'Di yan cheap ha? Bumili pa ko ng 2 AudioSource AMP 310 para kunin lang yung binding posts at magamit dyan!

Timithekid · « **Reply #39 on:** Oct 01, 2012 at 06:36 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Oct 01, 2012 at 05:47 PM

'Di yan cheap ha? Bumili pa ko ng 2 AudioSource AMP 310 para kunin lang yung binding posts at magamit dyan!

Lol! Panalo ka talaga sir Mark, can't thank you enough for taking time to do this. Pinakita ko nga sa wife ko eh, she couldn't believe na DIY, natanong pako ng ano nanaman daw order ko from Amazon hehehe.

Timithekid · « **Reply #40 on:** Oct 02, 2012 at 06:18 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Oct 01, 2012 at 04:59 PM

Reviews naman sa project mo.

Hooked up the Line Out Converter by our resident DIY Master Markcrenz today and would have to say, superb work, SQ did not suffer at all, I won't comment about better mids and highs or extended lows because that wasn't the purpose of the project anyway, the goal was to enable a receiver with no preout to be able connect to a power amp without sacrificing sound quality and the result is a resounding SUCCESS! The power amp works like a charm, my FS's are now singing better than they were with the extra power.

To all the entry level receiver owners out there that intend on upgrading to a better set of fronts that require more power to drive and want to use a power amp instead of upgrading your receiver,the LOC is your answer. I will refuse to quote how much it cost because i think Mark has the right to dictate his price for this successful project the idea is mine but Mark made it work, for those interested, get in touch with Markcrenz.

markcrenz · « **Reply #41 on:** Oct 02, 2012 at 07:47 PM »

Congrats on your successful project and thanks for the endorsement!

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #42 on:** Oct 02, 2012 at 08:30 PM »

Quote from: Timithekid on Oct 02, 2012 at 06:18 PM

Hooked up the Line Out Converter by our resident DIY Master Markcrenz today and would have to say, superb work, SQ did not suffer at all, I won't comment about better mids and highs or extended lows because that wasn't the purpose of the project anyway, the goal was to enable a receiver with no preout to be able connect to a power amp without sacrificing sound quality and the result is a resounding SUCCESS! The power amp works like a charm, my FS's are now singing better than they were with the extra power.

To all the entry level receiver owners out there that intend on upgrading to a better set of fronts that require more power to drive and want to use a power amp instead of upgrading your receiver,the LOC is your answer. I will refuse to quote how much it cost because i think Mark has the right to dictate his price for this successful project the idea is mine but Mark made it work, for those interested, get in touch with Markcrenz.

Congrats!!!

Quote from: markcrenz on Oct 02, 2012 at 07:47 PM

Congrats on your successful project and thanks for the endorsement!

Naka dalawang LOD pa naman ako sa Concorde. Tsk tsk. Sayang. Next project na lang. Meron kang yun nag convert sa stereo to mono?

markcrenz · « **Reply #43 on:** Oct 02, 2012 at 08:58 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Oct 02, 2012 at 08:30 PM

Congrats!!!

Naka dalawang LOD pa naman ako sa Concorde. Tsk tsk. Sayang. Next project na lang. Meron kang yun nag convert sa stereo to mono?

possible kumitid ng kaunti yung stereo image pag passive conversion and mixing to mono. if you don't want the original signal to be affected, dapat may active summing amp.

Nga pala... di ako resident DIY Master. Resident evil pwede pa.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #44 on:** Oct 02, 2012 at 10:33 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Oct 02, 2012 at 08:58 PM

possible kumitid ng kaunti yung stereo image pag passive conversion and mixing to mono. if you don't want the original signal to be affected, dapat may active summing amp.

Nga pala... di ako resident DIY Master. Resident evil pwede pa.

Naalala ko na. Summing amp nga.

Timithekid · « **Reply #45 on:** Oct 02, 2012 at 10:38 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Oct 02, 2012 at 08:58 PM

possible kumitid ng kaunti yung stereo image pag passive conversion and mixing to mono. if you don't want the original signal to be affected, dapat may active summing amp.

Nga pala... di ako resident DIY Master. Resident evil pwede pa.

sabi ko nga eh! hehe

Stagea · « **Reply #46 on:** Nov 14, 2012 at 01:46 AM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Oct 02, 2012 at 08:58 PM

possible kumitid ng kaunti yung stereo image pag passive conversion and mixing to mono. if you don't want the original signal to be affected, dapat may active summing amp.

Nga pala... di ako resident DIY Master. Resident evil pwede pa.

Pwede siguro sa speaker level mag-tap para stiff ang source at di mabawasan ang stereo separation maski na passive design. Pwede ibaba yung level then transformer or resistor based summing na lang. Mukhang pang sub naman ang balak ni Master Nelson eh.

markcrenz · « **Reply #47 on:** Nov 14, 2012 at 09:06 PM »

Quote from: Stagea on Nov 14, 2012 at 01:46 AM

Pwede siguro sa speaker level mag-tap para stiff ang source at di mabawasan ang stereo separation maski na passive design. Pwede ibaba yung level then transformer or resistor based summing na lang. Mukhang pang sub naman ang balak ni Master Nelson eh.

pwede nga kung loc to sub amp lang.

[r0n1n] · « **Reply #48 on:** Nov 20, 2012 at 09:57 AM »

Question on Carver z-5 connection:

1. Tama po ba: from avr speaker out to z-5 speaker in (using speaker cables) then out to power amp via z-5 rca output?

2. What is the difference of the above setup compared to an avr with pre-out?

Denon 1911 yung avr ko. TIA!

Timithekid · « **Reply #49 on:** Nov 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM »

Quote from: r0n1n on Nov 20, 2012 at 09:57 AM

Question on Carver z-5 connection:

1. Tama po ba: from avr speaker out to z-5 speaker in (using speaker cables) then out to power amp via z-5 rca output?

2. What is the difference of the above setup compared to an avr with pre-out?

Denon 1911 yung avr ko. TIA!

None

[r0n1n] · « **Reply #50 on:** Nov 20, 2012 at 07:21 PM »

Quote from: Timithekid on Nov 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM

None

Thanks!

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #51 on:** Nov 20, 2012 at 10:07 PM »

Quote from: r0n1n on Nov 20, 2012 at 09:57 AM

Question on Carver z-5 connection:

1. Tama po ba: from avr speaker out to z-5 speaker in (using speaker cables) then out to power amp via z-5 rca output?

2. What is the difference of the above setup compared to an avr with pre-out?

Denon 1911 yung avr ko. TIA!

Meron naman difference for me, pero that is kung OC ka sa tunog ng HT mo. Pero ako, hindi masyado.

markcrenz · « **Reply #52 on:** Nov 21, 2012 at 12:06 AM »

here's my take:
1. speaker out >> to LOC with trimmer potentiometers >> to power amp - good
2. speaker out >> to LOC with resistors (1% tolerance or better) >> to power amp - better
3. preamp out >> to power amp - best

#2 is better than #1 as resistors are more linear than the ordinary potentiometers typically used.

with proper power/level matching, #2 may approach the performance level of #3. with the receiver's internal amp delivering very low power on the high impedance LOC, the distortion is way below 0.1%, the limit* of audible distortion. that is if the receiver has low distortion at low power to begin with. but it's an entirely different case with a crappy receiver, or if one were to drive speakers parallel to the LOC.

* other people are known to have much higher tolerance for distortion, depending on several physical, psychological and pathological factors ranging from hearing acuity to blood alcohol content.

comments and rebuttals are welcome.

Timithekid · « **Reply #53 on:** Nov 21, 2012 at 02:01 AM »

^technically speaking, I'm sure there will be a difference, however if that difference is audible is subjective. Some have more bionic ears than others.

I speak from experience with my car audio, I started with an LOC (hence the idea for this project) in my car but then upgraded my Headunit with an RCA out, however I was after the other uses of the HU rather than the RCA out because I just did not hear the difference when they installed it.

Same with my HT set up now, I have Mark's LOC installed between my power amp and pio receiver but will upgrade to a different receiver not becauseof a preout but because of different features other than the preout.

my two cents.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #54 on:** Dec 07, 2012 at 11:18 PM »

made me my barebones LOC, one end goes to the output of the AVR and the other to the external amp... just one connector to worry about...

-30dB pad gain structure suitable for direct injection to any power amp...

just sharing

Timithekid · « **Reply #55 on:** Dec 08, 2012 at 07:47 AM »

Panalo yan master Jojo, you skipped having a box altogether.

TinkerTailor · « **Reply #56 on:** Jan 06, 2013 at 12:04 PM »

Quote from: JojoD818 on Dec 07, 2012 at 11:18 PM

made me my barebones LOC, one end goes to the output of the AVR and the other to the external amp... just one connector to worry about...

-30dB pad gain structure suitable for direct injection to any power amp...

just sharing

sir Jojo may I ask what specific resistors you used in this converter? I'm planning to make one for a pilyo amp. thanks in advance sir.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #57 on:** Jan 06, 2013 at 05:51 PM »

Quote from: bongkadi on Jan 06, 2013 at 12:04 PM

sir Jojo may I ask what specific resistors you used in this converter? I'm planning to make one for a pilyo amp. thanks in advance sir.

Hi bong, congrats on winning the sub from ivan! How is the Bash?

You can start with a 10:1 pad, a 4.7K for the top resistor and a 470 ohm for the lower resistor. That should give you about ~-32dB gain pad.

If you are adventurous and would like to maximize your gain structuring, you can use the formula below but you must know the voltage output of your amp to match that with the input sensitivity of the amp you will feed through.

Vout would be (470/(4.7K+470)) X Vin.

Good luck!

TinkerTailor · « **Reply #58 on:** Jan 06, 2013 at 07:14 PM »

Thanks sir.

I haven't yet used the bash from sir Ivan although I'm a bit familiar with its capability since its the same amp used by the dual 12" a-audio sub I'm using right now.

I think I'll try the 4.7k and 470ohm pair first then try other values later.

Thanks again sir Jojo.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #59 on:** Jan 06, 2013 at 07:19 PM »

Quote from: bongkadi on Jan 06, 2013 at 07:14 PM

Thanks sir.

I haven't yet used the bash from sir Ivan although I'm a bit familiar with its capability since its the same amp used by the dual 12" a-audio sub I'm using right now.

I think I'll try the 4.7k and 470ohm pair first then try other values later.

Thanks again sir Jojo.

OT: I'm in line for one unit too, just waiting from Ivan's go. So how's the bash with your a-audio sub?

BTT: That's the simplest way of doing it and from where I stand is the best compromise between noise (not too low impedance) and loading (not too low a resistance to be seen as a load).

Good luck!