Author Topic: Comparisons of Receivers  (Read 334571 times)

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Offline manila

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #150 on: May 24, 2002 at 06:56 PM »

Hey Russ!

LTNS! aw shucks ... pinu-plug mo pala ako rito hehehe. Ey, musta ka na? I got a REL sub! :D



Pareng Han***,
   Good to see you here!! :)

Manila

Offline lexmil

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Re:Which is better Denon, Onkyo or Yamaha Receiver
« Reply #151 on: May 25, 2002 at 02:55 PM »
check-out www.epinions.com for reviews of AV recievers and other electronic gadgets.  There are other sites as well so find it fom www.google.com.

My preference to Onkyo is subjective.  All I know is that is was within my budget at that time, about P40k.  THis is the top of the line Integra AV receiver of 1996 (can't even remember the model number as I'm writing this in the office).  It's just prologic with DSP surround and THX certified.  The newer models now are much better in terms of features and the reviews I've read from the internet as well as from magazines  that it is superior to any of the brands for the same price at any orice level.  And don't bother with the THX logo, it's pure hype (the Lucas company just want to rip your off). Just get an AV receiver with at least DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 decoders and analog inputs for future DVD-audio and SACD players.  The top Onkyo model has 7.1 channels of pure 100W RMS each. And component video jacks and with 6 or 7 programmable/assignable digital outputs and inputs, RCA and optical. The the remote has an LCD and is programmable.  

At the megamall and Makati cinema square, Onkyo only comes in gold finish.  Yamaha and Enonon comes in black. I personally would go for the black if only to match my existing color scheme.  But looking at the Onkyo brochures, they also come in black but the local distributors here seem to orefer dictating on the market that gold should be their choice.  If only for this I would lfor Yamaha.  They're cheaper than Onkyo watt for watt.




rtsy

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #152 on: May 29, 2002 at 01:48 PM »

Hey Russ!

LTNS! aw shucks ... pinu-plug mo pala ako rito hehehe. Ey, musta ka na? I got a REL sub! :D



But of course...I saw you plug me (well, my systems at least) in AA to a guy comparing Dyn and SF.  ;-)

Have you made the jump to HT?  I cannot imaging how you'd do that with the EAII without using 3 pairs of 'em in a 6.1 set-up or a 5.1 set-up with a spare EAII.  :-)

rtsy

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFabera? Please help!
« Reply #153 on: May 29, 2002 at 02:19 PM »


       Im also selling my Sonus Faber Concertino if you are interested in an audition, PM me. Good luck on your search. Whichever speaker you purchase, you won't be dissapointed! Just my 2 cents. :)


Manila,

   I was able to test the tinos and concerto and I really like the sound. If  only I have the budget, I would also like to get the SF. I have one question about these speakers. Do they have enough bass for normal easy listening in a 30 sq meter room? I dont need powerful and deep bass but I dont want mid and highs only. Thanks

levi


Manila, why part with your 'Tinos?  Is it still available?  Is it the Home or pre-Home series? My friend is in the market for a Concerto Home but a great price on the 'Tinos might sway him over.  I did tell him that the two are not quite the same though.

Racio,

I feel silly writing this below especially since we now have a resident SF connoseuir (spelling?) in Hyperion on board but here goes anyway...

30sqm or about a 6x5m room can be a stretch for the 'Tino's bass especially if your room is stuffed (e.g., large couch, drapes, carpet, etc.).  But keep the 'Tinos no more than 0.5 to 1m from the rear/side wall (but not equidistant from rear and side wall) and you'll find satisfying bottom end except for the largest of orchestral pieces or the really big band jazz.  Consider also the height of the stands you'll use.

Watch also how far apart you have them.  ~2.5m would be the farthest I'd have them before I lose middle soundstage.  Keep the tweeters out instead of in unless your side walls are too close that side reflections would be a problem.  I read the opposite works for the Concerto.

I have my 'Tinos on 27" sand-filled stands (from Jun Reyes).  SF has a height adjustable stand specifically to tune the speaker positioning to your room--closer to the floor, more bass w/c can be good or bad, depending on your taste and room.  Watch out though for a tinge of brightness with the 'Tino's tweets at ear level.  Maybe warmer/darker cables can help you here.  (Hyperion, any suggestions?)

If cost were no object, I strongly suggest a sub when using the 'Tinos in this room.  My REL Q100E works really well with the 'Tinos.  My only complaint is having to haul that sealed box in and out of my HT ifI wanted it with my SF.  :-) A Strata III or SF Gravis would theoretically be better (never heard them for fear of wanting then needing them).

Or you can go for the more refined and mature Concerto (I recently heard both Home versions) whose larger cabinet would give you more bass.  Be warned though, SF would convince you to upgrade your electronics.  I for one am saving up for a CJ CAV50--I read this doesn't work as well on the Concerto's though.  In fact, the 'Net is full or warnings about using the Concerto with fat-tish or boomyish amps.

Well, that's about all I've learned about my SF 'Tino's.

As a parting shot, as much as I love SF for music, I'm not so sure I like SFs in HT where typical audio are to my ears better served by the faster, crispier, punchier sound of Dynaudios.  But this is just me.  I know Home Theater Mag had a rave review of an SF system for HT (GPH, Solo, 'Tino or Concerto for rear effects--I cringed when I typed "Concerto for rears").

I'm quite concerned by your shorlist of B&W vs. SF for speakers.  To my mind, this tells me that you haven't quite sorted out your preferred sonic character as these two sound very different.  Manila's description of the different sonic character of B&W and SF is accurate.

Lemme put it this way, if B&W were a doctor, he's a surgeon--precise, objective, clinical/sterile (I don't mean this in the negative sense of boring but in the positive sense of enlightening, resolving).  SF on the other hand is a Psychologist--a soother/comforter, subjective, someone whose couch you could sit in for hours on end.

Figure out which character you prefer first.  Or else you'll end up like me, one with a neutral, revealing HT set-up, a separate and smoother audio set-up, and no savings account.  ;-)

Good luck!

Offline Racio

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #154 on: May 29, 2002 at 09:27 PM »
rtsy,

Excellent advice! Thanks!  :)  Actually, I did go the SF route and got myself a beautiful pair of walnut finish Tino’s (Home) and a leather-clad Solo (Home) for my center.

Manila made mention to me about the Pinoy SF Guru Hyperion. It must be said that his posts in AA are thoroughly interesting and informative. Glad he’s part of this forum already.

BTW, speaking of Manila’s Tino’s (Pre-Home), well, they’re already spoken for. Yup, I bought them as well. I was supposed to use ‘em for my rear channels, but same as with you, I also cowered at the thought. Especially after I realized that the Pre-Home versions are an inch bigger both in height and length. And for a moment, I thought that perhaps Manila sold me the Concerto’s instead. Lovely thought though, but nah… stamped at the back of its enclosure reads serial # 10026 “Concertino”.  :D

So, stuck with my ol’ Atlantics bi-polars for the rear, I decided to put up a pure stereo setup at my den. My HT system is actually, and to wife’s delight, installed inside our bedroom. 12 feet from the foot of our bed is a wall of cabinets constructed to accommodate my 36” telly, Marantz 8200 THX receiver, 533K dvd player, vcr etc.

It wasn’t as straight forward moving on to the den, which is kinda’ smallish at roughly 12’x12’. So, just recently, I stacked my 6 Lovan shelves in three’s against the wall. Now, it supports all my used-gear-line-up, namely: VTL C160 monoblocks (160Wpc), Cary SLP90 preamp, Pioneer PDS904 cd player, MF X10-D, and Thorens 166MkII. However, I was able to convince myself and went with brand new Transparent Link 100 for all my interconnects. Writing that stupendous amount on my check was tough!  :-\

I think I was pretty fortunate to find a pair of used but authentic SF stands. These are the ones with marble base and an all walnut center column. It matches my Tino's finish to a tee! It has a fixed height of only 23.5” though. Using my MITerminator 5 speaker cables, I placed the Tino’s around 5.5’ apart, 2’ from the rear wall, 3’ from the sides. No toe-in as suggested by Manila. And he’s right; sound is agreeably less forward and delivers a wider soundstage. I situated my Velodyne VLF1012’s at one corner and set the x-over to around 45Hz, which made it sorta’ “sonically invisible” if you will. Pity that I couldn't stretch my wallet for the RELs. Which finish did you opt for BTW?

It ain’t the last word on my speaker placements though. I’m even considering applying spikes to my stand’s marble base via a plank of wood beneath it. What do you think? Worth it?  ???

Cheers,
-Racio  8)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2002 at 02:33 AM by Racio »

rtsy

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #155 on: May 30, 2002 at 09:43 AM »
-->  VTL C160 monoblocks (160Wpc),
--> Cary SLP90 preamp,
--> Pioneer PDS904 cd player
--> MF X10-D
--> Thorens 166MkII

I cringe at the thought of you upgrading this later on.  But feel free to do so, the Philippine GDP could use a 1% boost.  ;-)

How do you find the X10D on the PDS904?  I read that the X10D is a love it or hate it component that tend to "improve" lower end CD players (and yours isn't).

--> Transparent Link 100

How'd you find this on the 'Tinos?  I read cables with magic boxes and SF don't get along that well.  It'd be interesting to know your experience especially since you have them both on the interconnect and speaker cable.  I heard the 'Tino Home and Concerto Home with Transparent speaker cables on a brief audition and I can't really compare it to my pre-Home 'Tino set-up (w/ Ixos 6003) since my amp (an ageing entry-level Nakamichi IA-3) isn't quite up to snuff with the MF A3 I heard the Homes with.

--> Which finish did you opt for BTW?

I got the REL in grittex black.  I think only the Gravis can match any SF's in the looks department.  ;-)

Offline Racio

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #156 on: May 30, 2002 at 06:54 PM »
rtsy,

Hehe. :D  You’ll be surprised at how “cheap” I was able to get hold of my aforementioned 2nd hand gear. When JR offered me the VTLs, he wasn’t totally aware of what he was selling. He kept on saying that it’s only rated @ 60Wpc, but it’s actually a 320W mammoth :o . I didn’t even pay cash! And a simple inquiry at AA confirmed my initial thoughts on its capability. Since then I’ve upgraded its 2 quads of Chinese KT88s to the Russo-made Sovteks (matched quads). The latter’s “dark” and “smooth” character really suits my taste. Still, I might try Svetlana’s in the future.

The SLP90’s internal phono stage is surely a big bonus. Hooked up to my Thorens, they sound fabulous. This Cary preamp plus the PDS904 are premium items I got from le’ tube guru R.R. But at a non-premium price of course, most specially the PDS904.  ;) Your right about that cd player, these were Pioneer’s flagship model back in its heyday about 4 yrs ago. It’s hard not to adore its big black stable cd platter, particularly the way it plays cds. Unlike other players, you place the cd’s label side at the bottom, in short: it’s “upside-down”, which I find to be quite exquisite looking. It’s like playing a miniature LP where the cd’s grooves are facing right at ya’.  ;) It sounds better than anything I ever tried before.

I guess I’m fine with my X-10Ds, although I already had these at the very onset and were originally hooked up to my HT system. I got a pair of these at real bonker prices. Frankly, there was a time I loathed ‘em because it made my system sound awfully muddy, and then I realized that I actually plugged ‘em the wrong way. Given that it’s 2nd hand, it didn’t come with the manuals and all, so all I knew at that time was that it’s a Class “A” tube buffer. I then installed it between the pre and power amps, and boy was I wrong. Although you can actually do it that way, I don’t recommend it, more so if you have an all tube setup.

Regarding the Transparents, I barely did any research before I bought my Link 100s. JR gave me a good deal on ‘em together with the VTLs. Also, I got my MITs at a bargain. I bought them used from Explorer, with banana plugs and all. While we're on the subject, I find it costly to compare good speaker wires; particularly the non-precut ones since most shops won’t slash a pair of 10’ Ixos from their bulk roll unless they’re certain you’ll be paying for ‘em.  ::)

I tell you, hang on to your Pre-Home (MkI) Tinos. To me, they sound somewhat sweeter than the Home (MkII) version. As with the former, MkII’s slightly roll off in the higher octaves but has a feeble harshness in the mid trebles. Still, both exhibit the revered SF smooth vivid mids. Actually, MkII’s have the upper hand in bass. The Home’s bass sound reproduction is “punchier” and has slightly more “slam” to it. But like I said, I really dig MkI’s smoother treble. But this is just me.  ;)

Currently, it’s suffice to say that I’m thoroughly satisfied with both my stereo and ht setup; hence, I don’t see any major revamp in the horizon. Perhaps a li’l tweak here and there but that’s it  ;) . I’m actually very fond of my Marantz 8200 (I recently upgraded from the 6200). The sound I get from this avr is extremely neutral. It even comes with this really cool RC3200 remote. What more can I say about a backlit touch-screen lcd rc? It can even control our airconditioner! It’s really fantastic.

I saw a used set of CJ pre and power amp up for sale at Sonny’s. You might be interested.

-Racio  8)

rtsy

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #157 on: May 31, 2002 at 11:04 PM »
--> I saw a used set of CJ pre
--> and power amp up for sale
--> at Sonny’s. You might be interested.

Which of Sonny's stores?  He has a couple, right?

Remember the model/price?

Offline Racio

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Re:Denon or Marantz? B&W or SonusFaber? Please help!
« Reply #158 on: Jun 01, 2002 at 08:30 AM »

--> I saw a used set of CJ pre
--> and power amp up for sale
--> at Sonny’s. You might be interested.

Which of Sonny's stores?  He has a couple, right?

Remember the model/price?


It's at "Home Theatre" in Makati. Sorry, I can't recall what particular model it was, but from what I remember the CJ power amp that I saw has a bank of EL34's, a pair on each side, and Sonny was telling me that it's rated at 60Wpc while I was speeding back to my double parked car. I don't want to get misquoted so I guess you just have to call him at 812-5235 later today regarding his asking price.

-Racio  8)

Offline bonjit

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Re:Which is better Denon, Onkyo or Yamaha Receiver
« Reply #159 on: Jun 10, 2002 at 05:12 PM »
Hi I'm Bonjit taga Sydney Australia, I compared the three brands na iyan before I bought my receiver. Napansin ko iyung yamaha na model na pinakinggan ko dati masyadong forward sounding tumunog ang sakit sa taynga, ang Denon hindi masyado forward sounding tumunog ang modelo na inaudition namin yung 2801 yata that time, ang Onkyo naman ang binili ko yung 656
unfortunately wala pang dts ito at that  time noong binili ko satisfied naman ako dito sa tunog at saka mura itong Onkyo compared sa Denon at that time. I think mapipilitan na akong magupgrade to get a dts on board nagiisip ako kung bibilin ko yung 696 which is 100 watts per channel at saka may dvd-audio na which 1,999.00
Australian dollars RRP  kaya lang makukuha ko lang ito
ng 1,500.00. By the way na audition ko lahat itong mga receiver sa B&W 602 series 2, cc6 series 2 at 601 series2 for the rear.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #160 on: Aug 13, 2002 at 08:48 AM »
I have my heart set out on buying the 530. Saan ang Electronics Depot and do they have cheaper prices than Ambassador? Doon ko pa lang nakita ang 530 eh.

Thanks a lot

Offline onedown

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #161 on: Aug 13, 2002 at 09:09 AM »
oh_dino,

electronics depot is located at libis, accross ford libis. electronics depot is a member of this forum. theres actually a thread discussing electronics depot. try searching for it. sorry, can't really remember where. you could also try sending electronics depot a private messsage.

thanks.
peace man!

Offline Jick

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #162 on: Aug 14, 2002 at 09:59 PM »

I have my heart set out on buying the 530. Saan ang Electronics Depot and do they have cheaper prices than Ambassador? Doon ko pa lang nakita ang 530 eh.

Thanks a lot


You might want to consider the RXV-430.  Same power rating but less features.  I went with the 430 because it was cheaper and the extra features of the 530 I didn't really need such pre-outs and A-B speaker switching among others.  Otherwise they are the same amp.

Jovi
2 Channel Setup Only:
KEF LS50
REL T-9 Sub
Oppo 103D
NAD C340 Preouts
Emotiva XPA-200

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #163 on: Aug 15, 2002 at 06:39 AM »


You might want to consider the RXV-430.  Same power rating but less features.  I went with the 430 because it was cheaper and the extra features of the 530 I didn't really need such pre-outs and A-B speaker switching among others.  Otherwise they are the same amp.

Jovi



Actually i was considering the 430 originaly until i found out wala pala siyang S-Video inputs. Anyway I've expanded my choices to include the Onky tx-sr494  or 500. Ok rin sina ang Yamaha 620 pero wala kasing PLII. BTW is PLII worth the extra cost?  

Offline Jick

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #164 on: Aug 19, 2002 at 01:21 AM »

You might want to consider the RXV-430.  Same power rating but less features.  I went with the 430 because it was cheaper and the extra features of the 530 I didn't really need such pre-outs and A-B speaker switching among others.  Otherwise they are the same amp.

Jovi


Actually i was considering the 430 originaly until i found out wala pala siyang S-Video inputs. Anyway I've expanded my choices to include the Onky tx-sr494  or 500. Ok rin sina ang Yamaha 620 pero wala kasing PLII. BTW is PLII worth the extra cost?  

PLII is worth the extra cost if you will watch a lot of movies in stereo sound, like wathing cable TV (HBO, Cinemax) or watching VHS or vcd.  If you are purely a DVD guy, PLII is useless.  

Jovi
2 Channel Setup Only:
KEF LS50
REL T-9 Sub
Oppo 103D
NAD C340 Preouts
Emotiva XPA-200

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #165 on: Aug 19, 2002 at 12:24 PM »
PLII is worth the extra cost if you will watch a lot of movies in stereo sound, like wathing cable TV (HBO, Cinemax) or watching VHS or vcd.  If you are purely a DVD guy, PLII is useless.  

Jovi

Yah I try to avoid vhs as much as possible and never touch vcds.
I do however also listen  to a lot of music. Hindi ba maganda ang PLII when listening to cds?

Offline listener

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #166 on: Aug 21, 2002 at 10:12 PM »
Quote
Quote

Yah I try to avoid vhs as much as possible and never touch vcds.
I do however also listen  to a lot of music. Hindi ba maganda ang PLII when listening to cds?

nothing beats stereo for critical listening of CD's encoded with 2 channel audio. Using DPL, DPL2 or any of the soundfield presets found on receivers and processors tend to degrade the sound rather than improve it.  Results are also somewhat unpredictable since the 2 channel audio CD's are not intended to be decoded by any other decoding process but stereo.

just my .02 cents

Offline luther

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #167 on: Aug 22, 2002 at 09:42 AM »
hmmm, bigla tuloy akong napaisip sa denon 1802... yun na sana bilhin ko...

oks lang kaya ang rx-v530 with infinity alpha speakers?

Offline listener

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Re:AVR-2802 vs. RX-V530
« Reply #168 on: Aug 22, 2002 at 10:04 AM »
luther

the best thing to do is to audition both receivers. If its not too big a hassle, bring your Infinity Alpha's when you audition the receivers. Be there sa store ng maaga para walang masyadong tao.  There is no substitute for listening to the actual piece of equipment. Audio is very subjective....let us not take the word of others agad without hearing (or seeing) for ourselves.  I have the chance to own an early Denon AVR series receiver (5 years ago during the infancy of AC3) and iba naman ang experience ko....it sounds very good sa stereo music and multi-channel when used with a transparent and neutral speaker such as the B&W DM302.  Do the auditions first before deciding what to buy. Good luck ;D

Offline levi

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Re:Onkyo or Denon?
« Reply #169 on: Aug 23, 2002 at 12:58 AM »
Bringing this up for new members. Thanks

Offline lakambini

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Re:Onkyo or Denon?
« Reply #170 on: Aug 29, 2002 at 03:33 PM »
if ur tight on a budget i strongly suggest that you get an onkyo. aside from more affordable it has more useful features at this price range compared with other brands like denon and harman.

Offline mdman

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Re:Onkyo or Denon?
« Reply #171 on: Aug 29, 2002 at 07:35 PM »
what's better, onkyo tx-sr500 or the denon 1602, i'm planing to buy this week end and i'm still undecided

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re:Onkyo or Denon?
« Reply #172 on: Aug 29, 2002 at 09:04 PM »
what's better, onkyo tx-sr500 or the denon 1602, i'm planing to buy this week end and i'm still undecided

Heads up mdman!

Kung hindi ka opposed to buying 2nd hand, someone's auctioning his 1602 at bidshot. starting price is 10K

here's the link Denon 1602

Offline john5479

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Re:Onkyo or Denon?
« Reply #173 on: Aug 30, 2002 at 05:04 AM »
They are both good for entry level, just don't expect a lot of power from them. They both sound good for stereo but for me the onkyo sounds better for movies. but..if you can get the denon 1602 up for bidding at 10 thou or even at around the 14k range, thats a great deal!

Offline arjohnperez

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Comparisons of Receivers
« Reply #174 on: Sep 25, 2002 at 10:06 PM »
guys,
pls. advice... i'm choosing between denon1602, onkyo tx-ds575x, yamaha 496. ano ba ang pinaka okay between the 3 receivers? im planning to use M73i speakers. ito yung price na nakuha ko: denon1602 (19k bnew), onkyo tx-ds575x (15k pero 2nd hand), yamaha 496 (13k pero 2nd hand).
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2002 at 11:39 PM by luis »

Offline levi

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Re:Comparisons of Receivers
« Reply #175 on: Sep 25, 2002 at 11:43 PM »
Hi, welcome to PinoyDVD,

    I edited your title to accommodate all postings for receivers comparisons. Thank you


Levi

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Re:Comparisons of Receivers
« Reply #176 on: Sep 26, 2002 at 08:08 PM »
Hi,

Medyo mahirap mag-judge.  The models aren't exactly directly comparable.  For me, it's a choice between the Denon and the Onkyo (never been a big fan of Yamaha).

The 1602 has the advantage of being a newer model (Pro Logic II, for example).  However, I feel that it's a "lower" model compared to the 575X (494 dapat and katapat niya).

So, the 575X is supposedly a "higher" model (1802 and katapat niya) but it's an older model (595 na ngayon, diba?).  You'll just have to factor in how "used" that 575X is.

I think either receiver would perform well with the M73i so it all comes down to your preference for the sound.  To me, the 1602 sounds a bit warm and laid back while the 575X sounds brighter with a slightly more forward soundstage but more with detail.

Personally, I'd go for the 575X but that's mainly because I used to own one.  ;)  I was very happy with it and the only reason I replaced it is because it didn't have pre-outs.  Baka pwede ka pang tumawad sa presyo.

Anyway, I hope someone else gives another point of view.  Mine is somewhat biased towards the 575X.  ;D

Offline listener

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Re:Comparisons of Receivers
« Reply #177 on: Sep 26, 2002 at 10:21 PM »
arjohnperez

sa category nung 3 receiver na binigay mo halos pareho lang ang tunog nyang mga yan. sobrang liit ng difference ng sound quality sa entry level A/V receiver category. sa functions na lang sila magkakaiba. choose the one with the right combination of functions, power and sound.

Offline arjohnperez

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Re:Comparisons of Receivers
« Reply #178 on: Sep 27, 2002 at 03:28 PM »
thank you guys for your comments. isa na lang po. magkano ba dapat ang price nung onkyo575x? less than a year pa lang nagagamit and i know the owner. 15k ang asking nya, reasonable na ba yun or dapat tumawad pa ako?

Offline dondon

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Re:Comparisons of Receivers
« Reply #179 on: Sep 27, 2002 at 03:39 PM »
some denon and pioneer audio/video equip. pareho lang......