Topic: foobar or j river?

[jhelenz]

hi,i'm just wondering which player sounds better for you?which has the better gui?do you use wasapi or asio?thanks

[Stagea]

I prefer a tweaked install of foobar over jriver, but jriver's also pretty good. Jriver's interface is better imo.

I prefer to use Wasapi Event.

[Courage]

I have both and Jrivers is better for me..

[raider125jeigh]

I prefer a tweaked install of foobar over jriver, but jriver's also pretty good. Jriver's interface is better imo.

I prefer to use Wasapi Event.

can you pm the tweak brader? thanks

[Nelson de Leon]

I've heard both in a friend's system. Sometimes, depende din sa genre ng music and sa system. Very subjective din.

[jhelenz]

I've heard both in a friend's system. Sometimes, depende din sa genre ng music and sa system. Very subjective din.

sir,in your experience what music genre is good for foobar and j river?thanks

[jhelenz]

can you pm the tweak brader? thanks

why the need to pm?di ba free naman yung foobar?pa share naman master stagea.thanks

[Stagea]

why the need to pm?di ba free naman yung foobar?pa share naman master stagea.thanks

It's a bit long to type, and it is system-dependent. I'd try to post it over the weekend.

[raider125jeigh]

It's a bit long to type, and it is system-dependent. I'd try to post it over the weekend.

thank you brader...bait mo talaga haha...

[fatboyslim]

It's a bit long to type, and it is system-dependent. I'd try to post it over the weekend.

+1

thanks, isa ako sa magaabang ng tweak na ito. 

[Nelson de Leon]

sir,in your experience what music genre is good for foobar and j river?thanks

Hindi lang sa sa genre, pati sa system din dependent. Kay Billabong, masbagay yun jriver pero in my system, masbagay si foobar.

[jhelenz]

Hindi lang sa sa genre, pati sa system din dependent. Kay Billabong, masbagay yun jriver pero in my system, masbagay si foobar.

sir nelson hindi mo na nga sinagot yung tanong ko dinagdagan mo pa ng isa pang palaisipan,hehe.

[Stagea]

sir nelson hindi mo na nga sinagot yung tanong ko dinagdagan mo pa ng isa pang palaisipan,hehe.

I think Nelson was referring to Jplay and not Jriver, unless Billabong had a change of heart.

But yes, some systems work better with certain players. It's best to look for one that works for you.

[Nelson de Leon]

I think Nelson was referring to Jplay and not Jriver, unless Billabong had a change of heart.

But yes, some systems work better with certain players. It's best to look for one that works for you.

Thanks for clarifying. yes, it was jplay through bare windows xp. JRiver yun nandito sa akin dati na mabigat i-drive tama?

sir nelson hindi mo na nga sinagot yung tanong ko dinagdagan mo pa ng isa pang palaisipan,hehe.

Masmadaming option, masmasaya. hehe!

[Stagea]

Thanks for clarifying. yes, it was jplay through bare windows xp. JRiver yun nandito sa akin dati na mabigat i-drive tama?

Hindi ata. cPlay yung nasa bare XP niya, tapos jPlay yung nasa Windows 7.

We tried both jPlay and JRiver sa PC mo before, I'm not sure kung ano yung nakainstall pa.

[joko11]

bookmarked

[Stagea]

This is a Foobar 2000 setup guide for Windows 8, 7 and Vista users.

General order of preference**: WASAPI Event -> ASIO -> WASAPI Push -> DS

** WASAPI Event is the most elegant method (and in most cases is the best method), but some devices do perform better with ASIO (mostly driver-dependent).

Disclaimer: Please note that the impact of these changes are largely dependent on how sensitive your components are to jitter.

WASAPI Setup for those using computers with sufficient RAM (suggested for those with 4GB of RAM or more w/ 64-bit Windows, or 2GB of RAM or more w/ 32-bit Windows):
1.   Install the latest version of Foobar 2000 (1.1.18 at the moment)
2.   Install the latest WASAPI component (3.0 at the moment)
3.   Optional: Install other components that you may use (HDCD, etc.)
4.   Do not use DSPs unless necessary (like when your hardware does not support a certain sampling rate)
5.   Use WASAPI Event under Output Device  when possible
6.   Disable fading (0ms)
7.   Under Advanced, set full file buffering upto your RAM size minus 2GB (64-bit Windows) or your RAM size minus 1GB (32-bit Windows) in kB (2097152 for 4GB RAM with Win x64, for example)
8.   Reduce Playback buffer length to minimum (50ms), unless this causes playback problems
9.   Reduce WASAPI buffer length to the lowest setting without causing drop-offs
10.   Optional: Run Fidelizer (can hurt system performance)
11.   Optional: Adjust process affinities to dedicate cores for Foobar2000 and WASAPIHost (allowing for even reduced latency, but can hurt system performance)
12.   Max-out Foobar and Windows Mixer volume settings to ensure bit-transparent playback
13.   Optional: Elevate process priorities of Foobar2000 and WASAPIHost (can affect performance)
14.   Optional: Cut down on Windows services (will limit OS functionality)

WASAPI Setup for those using computers that are relatively short on RAM:
1.   Install the latest version of Foobar 2000 (1.1.18 at the moment)
2.   Install the latest WASAPI component (3.0 at the moment)
3.   Optional: Install other components that you may use (HDCD, etc.)
4.   Do not use DSPs unless necessary (like when your hardware does not support a certain sampling rate)
5.   Use WASAPI Event under Output Device  when possible
6.   Disable fading (0ms)
7.   Reduce Playback buffer length to shortest stable setting
8.   Optional: Run Fidelizer (can hurt system performance)
9.   Reduce WASAPI buffer length to the lowest setting without causing drop-offs
10.   Max-out Foobar and Windows Mixer volume settings to ensure bit-transparent playback
11.   Optional: Adjust process affinities to dedicate cores for Foobar2000 and WASAPIHost (allowing for reduced latency, but can hurt system performance)
12.   Optional: Cut down on Windows services (will limit OS functionality)
13.   Optional: Elevate process priorities of Foobar2000 and WASAPIHost (can affect performance)


ASIO Setup:
1.   Follow the same setup procedure as WASAPI but skip steps 2, 5, 9, 11 and 13.
2.   Install the latest ASIO Output component (2.1.2 at the moment)
3.   Select ASIO under Output Device
4.   Click use 64-bit ASIO drivers when running Windows x64
5.   Click Run with High Process Priority
6.   Optional: Tweak device driver to run minimal buffering (device-dependent)
7.   Optional: Adjust process affinities to dedicate cores for Foobar2000 and ASIO driver (allowing for even reduced latency, but can hurt system performance)
8.   Optional: Elevate process priority of Foobar2000

For OC people (things to be done after the steps above):
1.           Optional: Underclock PC to a reasonable speed
2.           Undervolt your PC components to the lowest possible stable setting
3.           Disable Spread Spectrum, Power Management, Wake from Standby, etc.
4.           Optional: Disable Virtual Memory (lots of RAM recommended)
5.           Use latency checker to look for software bottlenecks and rid yourself of them http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
6.           Optional: Run a separate OS installation focused on ultra-low latency and component utilization
7.           Explore use of Foobar2000 XA, JPlay, etc.

OC Hardware Upgrades:
1.           Build a dedicated computer using preselected low latency ULV components
2.           Use an ultra low noise power supply
3.           Add all sorts of DC noise filters
4.           Shield components from each other
5.           Skip mechanical storage
6.           Reclock output to DAC
7.           Remove unnecessary components
etc. etc.

Yes, even after you've done all these tweaks, you can still do better (but you'd no longer be using Foobar, and at the extreme level... you'd no longer have access to a GUI).

[raider125jeigh]

atlast...thanks brader ivan...will follow the procedure

[fatboyslim]

Cool...going to try this.  Thank you!

[fattyacid]

@stagea, I am using HDMI output (192/24, no DAC) and also just VLC. Will the tweaked foobar play better?

[Arulco]

I use Jriver in kernel streaming mode. Better, livelier and more detailed sound quality compared to foobar2000 with WASAPI 3.0 Event which sounded a bit veiled and flat with my setup.

[raider125jeigh]

brader ivan..ung sa output setting(sound card to use)?
gumagamit kasi ako ng vdac II
ayun ung pinipili ko before dapat ba hindi? thanks

[Stagea]

@stagea, I am using HDMI output (192/24, no DAC) and also just VLC. Will the tweaked foobar play better?

HDMI is intrinsically high jitter, so it normally does not benefit as much from tweaks. However, you can go ahead and try. VLC afaik is not a bit-transparent player, so you may still get some benefits from going for another player that supports WASAPI Exclusive mode even without further tweaking.

I use Jriver in kernel streaming mode. Better, livelier and more detailed sound quality compared to foobar2000 with WASAPI 3.0 Event which sounded a bit veiled and flat with my setup.

As Nelson mentioned, it often is system and listener dependent. It's still best to explore what works for each individual.

brader ivan..ung sa output setting(sound card to use)?
gumagamit kasi ako ng vdac II
ayun ung pinipili ko before dapat ba hindi? thanks

Yes, but it should appear in Foobar several times with different paths.

[raider125jeigh]

HDMI is intrinsically high jitter, so it normally does not benefit as much from tweaks. However, you can go ahead and try. VLC afaik is not a bit-transparent player, so you may still get some benefits from going for another player that supports WASAPI Exclusive mode even without further tweaking.

As Nelson mentioned, it often is system and listener dependent. It's still best to explore what works for each individual.

Yes, but it should appear in Foobar several times with different paths.

thank you matic naman sya...select ko tapos 24bit ung pinipili ko kasi 24bit dac lang un...
ung wasapi try ko iconfigure later

[Stagea]

thank you matic naman sya...select ko tapos 24bit ung pinipili ko kasi 24bit dac lang un...
ung wasapi try ko iconfigure later

You're welcome. You'd need the WASAPI plugin to see the WASAPI path. It's upto you if you want to run with default settings or if you want to tweak the program and your computer afterwards.

[berdilot™]

You're welcome. You'd need the WASAPI plugin to see the WASAPI path. It's upto you if you want to run with default settings or if you want to tweak the program and your computer afterwards.

How is wasapi different to VLC?

[fattyacid]

HDMI is intrinsically high jitter, so it normally does not benefit as much from tweaks. However, you can go ahead and try. VLC afaik is not a bit-transparent player, so you may still get some benefits from going for another player that supports WASAPI Exclusive mode even without further tweaking.

Thanks chief. I know its jittery , but its betterer running 192/24 on a 192/24 flac. Can you recommend a cheap 192/24 DAC, and what cable should I use, digital RCA or Toslink?

[Nelson de Leon]

Thanks chief. I know its jittery , but its betterer running 192/24 on a 192/24 flac. Can you recommend a cheap 192/24 DAC, and what cable should I use, digital RCA or Toslink?

Sir, have you audition or tried Musiland USB DACs? 

[fattyacid]

Sir, have you audition or tried Musiland USB DACs? 

Not yet chief. Please do point me to where I can get it locally.

[Stagea]

How is wasapi different to VLC?

WASAPI is a windows audio session protocol that applications can use boss, it's not a playback application like VLC. A playback application can use WASAPI, on the other hand.