Author Topic: Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?  (Read 115913 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline SVS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #120 on: Nov 18, 2002 at 01:57 AM »
Aside from the people who have posted here, it's well known to the people who also own other stores (whose names I dont need to mention) that this guy is really hard to deal with. I was so surprised at the way this guy handled my visit there, and was also so disgusted. Just for looking for some CD what I wanted, I almost got into a fight.
Paul's (if thats what his name is) shop should really be avoided at all costs. Good for you if you got good treatment but the issue here is not only one, but a lot of people who are disgusted by his behaviour and service.
You are not really supposed to defend yourself because of the good experience that you had, but don't try to defend the guy when he obviously did something wrong to our fellow audiophiles already. Whether you meant it or not, you brought forth an impression that Hamann actually did something wrong such as not going up to him the moment he went in his store (which is even worse), or talking on the cell (so what?).
I have just been lurking in this site for sometime but I decided to register so I could post since I was so taken aback at your reaction. So what if let's say I was talking on the phone. That is no reason for any store owner to shout and act like a madman. There was no need from the very start to point that our in defense of your friend.

He should learn from store owners who know how to treat their customers such as the people of AVDI, who display exemplary service, even the smaller stores such as Sonny Tuason's and Rene Rivo's.

Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #121 on: Nov 18, 2002 at 01:59 AM »
Hey, I'm the one who's managed to get good treatment-yet I'm the one who's supposed to "wake up"?
Yes, I agree that the "wake-up" call should be addressed to Mr. Ibanez himself. However, I believe what SVS simply means is that you should accept the fact that Mr. Ibanez has a rather high propensity to become offensive and hostile to some if not most of his prospective customers w/ little or no provocation at all. An adverse peculiarity that has no place in his line of business whatsoever. Despite your favorable experience w/ him, w/c seems to be one of the few that eluded his rudeness, it still does not alter the incident at hand.

-I can still go there, just sit on their couch and completely waste their time for hours-yet they don't mind a bit...
Consider yourself to be extremely fortunate then, because most won't have that "pleasure".
« Last Edit: Nov 19, 2002 at 02:17 AM by Racio »

Offline aikigrappler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,324
  • irimi nage
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #122 on: Nov 18, 2002 at 11:08 AM »
My two cents:

In fairness to Notaku, I don't think he's being particularly biased towards this Ceratec guy.  It's understandable that he's surprised by this incident (and others) considering his totally opposite experience compared to everyone else.

It appears that he's tried his best to get to the bottom of this while being impartial and objective.  Not easy, considering that he knows the Ceratec guy but not any of us.  Try to put yourselves in Notaku's shoes.


I agree with Aylwin.Nataku, it might be in this guys' interest to read this thread and see what people are saying about him so that he could also tell his part of the story.No one can say for sure about anything unless all sides are heard and there are witnesses to back that up.So unless there is a conspiracy going on against this guy, it would be prudent for him to take these remarks seriously.
I personally have some bad experiences going into audio video shops and even if their prices are lower, I tend to buy from another just based on how I was treated.I'm not willing to part with my hard earned money just because a store is cheap, there should be also mutual respect.I have seen store clerks have that "what do you know" or "you can't afford that" look.I walk out right that instant.I think I already mentioned some stores in my past posts.
You know guys because of this thread I also went to look at Ceratec but did not go in.It is a small store that I haven't really noticed before.We should give the person the benefit of the doubt but if it is proven, then I would support boycotting this store.
Hey Hamann, I think you should report the incident to Mega management for them to at least investigate and see if there are other similar complaints.This should get the ball rolling.
Elf 8)
It takes a little more persistence to get up and go the distance

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #123 on: Nov 19, 2002 at 01:57 AM »
Fellow Members,

Im sorry to cut you guys but I have to give my 2nd warning that we should stick to the topic. We are free to give our thoughts about any store but please refrain from being personal here. Once you have shared your experiences, then let the people decide on their own.

Thanks
Levi

rtsy

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #124 on: Nov 19, 2002 at 05:22 AM »
Im sorry to cut you guys but I have to give my 2nd warning that we should stick to the topic. We are free to give our thoughts about any store but please refrain from being personal here.
Levi

Dear Moderator,

I'd appreciate being pointed to which specific point in the exchanges you consider personal.

Certainly, there are objective and valid points IMHO (and do let me know if I'm wrong) such as let S.M. management know about these complaints about the store, specific examples of how customers have been slighted by the Ceratec shopkeeper, etc.

In an effort to stay witin the guidelines of this board, it might help to cite specific line in various posts where you think personal lines have been crossed.

Thanks!

Offline clearaudio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #125 on: Nov 19, 2002 at 10:53 AM »
just because someone got "good" treatment from ceratec doesn't make what that Paul Ibanez guy did to hamann right.

do not try to justify his outrageous behavior with a completely separate and different experience in the past. you are not being very rational or objective here.

and so what if he is 60 years old? does that give him the right to yell at his customers for ridiculous reasons like using a cellphone in the store? c'mon.

if he is 60 years old and has a bad temper or does not have the patience to deal with customers, audiophiles at that (who by nature take time in choosing/selecting what they purchase), then he is in the wrong business. he should be in divisoria instead.

Offline Jermi

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 143
  • I'm a llamat!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #126 on: Nov 20, 2002 at 04:26 PM »
I have to completely agree with clearaudio.  Further, do not try to *justify* what Ibanez did by attacking the aggrieved party, that is basically what you are doing by telling him that he *should've* gone straight to the old man, that he should NOT have used his phone etc...

What you are basically doing is justifying Ceratec's irrational behavior and making it seem that it was caused by some justifiable irritant.

When you look at historical data, lotsa people have been equally aggrieved by him.  Your isolated case of aberrant good behavior definitely seems like an exception to the norm.

notaku you're asking if you have done soemthing wrong.  I believe you have.  You have taken Hamann's experience and added insult to his injury.  You have taken isolated elements of the case and magnified them inappropriately.  When you just step back and look at case from a macro perspective, you'd realize that harm has been done and there is no way for it to be justified.  Hamann was the customer, you can not put them in the same point of reference.  Customers go to shops to avail of products and services, there is a universal acceptance of the fact that they should be treated with respect, not screamed at.

P.S.  Moderator, I humbly submit that we are still on topic, we are just having a very detailed discussion about ONE particular Audio Store... :)

Offline Aylwin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 142
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #127 on: Nov 20, 2002 at 08:06 PM »
Hey, c'mon guys, how about we start talking about nice experiences?  Surely, there must be some good shops out there.

I mean it's been made clear enough already (at least to me) that we should stay away from Ceratec.  If that's the case then where should we go instead?

This is a question for everybody.  Fire away!

Offline Hamann

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #128 on: Nov 20, 2002 at 08:28 PM »
Jermi: That's exactly how I feel. In this case I already was the victim, and yet I still have to explain myself.

Anyway, going back to the topic, I agree with SVS. Sonny Tuason is probably one of the best guys out there, just be sure to call first since nowadays he's doing a lot of deliveries and installations    :)

The people of AVDI, from the owner down to their staff has always been very accomodating and are very well versed with the products that they carry. Rene Rivo is also another person whom I'd go to from time to time. Aside from that, the guys from Architectural Audio (I forgot their names) have been very pleasant to deal with. Oliver and JR of the Listening Group are good friends of mine also, although I don't really buy audio items from them, but F1 and auto memorabilia.  ;D

rtsy

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #129 on: Nov 22, 2002 at 08:39 AM »
Hey, c'mon guys, how about we start talking about nice experiences?  Surely, there must be some good shops out there.

I second the motion on Hamann's good words about Rene Rivo, Listening Group, and AVDI.  Mind you, the latter two have given me a dose of terrible experiences but I think they deserve the accolade because after I told them about the negative experiences (objectively and amicably, of course) I had at their store and after-sales service, respectively, they cleaned up their act.

No company is perfect.  Mistakes will always happen.  What differentiates a good from a bad company I think is whether they learn from mistakes or not.

In JR's case, one of his people (a brother I think) sent me email apologizing for the incident.  I heard later on that their staff at Shang received stern words from JR following this incident.  The incident never recurred in my following auditions there.

In AVDI's case, Wilfred and Stefan spent quite a while calling/texting me their apologies and personally seeing to it my gear got fixed and more--significantly earlier than the timeframe they commited.

To the list of good stores I'd like to add Melvyn Chua's DCM.  It's hell going to that store due to Cubao traffic and it's worse trying to park but the moment you hear Melvyn's sonorous Tagalog/English w/ Ilonggo accent,
he makes it all worth it.

On one particularly busy Saturday, a friend and I went there to audition some Arcam, Musical Fidelity and Mission stuff.  There were quite a number of people where the stuff in our budget were so Melvyn craftily and graciously turned the aircon on at his high end listening room (Nautilus 803 at that time, I think it's a JM Lab  mini Utopia there now) and gave us a taste of the high end.  He didn't have to do that, our stated budget could buy only half a monoblock in that room or maybe the power conditioner.  But he did it.  As a result, I've since recommended him to several friends (my headphone amp included) who have given DCM  business.

Another store who responded well to criticism in forums like this is Upscale.  Instead of throwing accusations back at the complainants and making lame excuses like "I was provoked," the owner gathered their staff and showed them complete printouts of the messages we posted here.

Should you folks be in Cebu, get in touch with Ferdi Ludo of Sounds & Images ([email protected]).  He's another good shopkeeper.  Too bad he doesn't have a branch in Manila because we sure would learn a lot by being exposed to Ferdi's Plinius, Audio Note, JM Reynaud, Analysis Plus, Silver Audio, REL, Blue Circle, Spendor, Totem Acoustics, etc.

Ferdi posts at http://group.yahoo.com/group/pinoydiophiles.  Read more from him there.

Offline Aylwin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 142
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #130 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 01:08 AM »
Thanks, Hamann and rtsy.  Great stuff!

I think it's particulary nice to hear specific stories and personal experiences in detail.  I've generally had very good experiences with the hifi stores I've visited wherever.  Unfortunately, I don't live in the Philippines anymore.  Still, it's encouraging to hear that we hobbyists/addicts can get the same (if not better) treatment back home.

Despite living abroad, I can also vouch for Ferdie Ludo of Sounds 'n Images in Cebu.  I've corresponded quite a lot with him recently via email.  Although we've never met, he's very patient with all my questions and always gives me sincere advice.  He has many many years of experience and carries excellent brands (four of which I happen to own products of ;D).
« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2002 at 01:10 AM by Aylwin »

Offline tuff_u_gong

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • emancipate yourselves from mental slavery!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #131 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 01:36 AM »
nice to see this thread has moved to positive territory, for a change.

Melvyn Chua (DCM), Rene Rivo, Sonny Tuazon are all cool. they're all very helpful kahit wala ka pang binibili.
The Listening Group: sina JR at Oliver OK din matulungin.
Sa Image, Harrison Plaza  maalalay din ang mga salesmen:joel, toto, joy, arman, alex, atbp.

Alex who runs Ambassador Shang always serves you with a smile.

Arnold sa B&W Shang mabait din at nagpapa-audition.

i always feel welcome at Audio Driver Shang .

Sales guy at Audio Den, Araneta Ave. ay hindi rin matapobre kahit sa mga mukhang pobreng tulad ko.

Offline Tango

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #132 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 10:43 AM »
tuff,

  Oo tama ka dun pre, marami rin namang mga stores na ok......but same with others who posted their comments here, I also have experienced the same thing.....well talagang ganun, people are different from what we expect them to be....... :)

    anyways, haven't heard with  all of them yet, except Mr. Tuazon he's a great guy.....mabait and direct kausap kahit sa phone lang......Your also right with Image....maasikaso mga tao dun, especially si Joy, sa kanya ko kinuha yung set-up ko......and he also gave me a big discount with it :D ...Hope all of the stores are like that.

Offline notaku

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 315
  • No Life King
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #133 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 11:12 AM »
Amen.

I got a pair of speakers from Ceratec, an MF amp from DCM, a CD player from Upscale at Megamall, a portable CD player w/tuner from Ambassador-Shang, lots of stuff from Raon,

-been a customer of A-V Driver for the longest time, lately I waited a month for their NAD CD player but no prob they cancelled the order when the supplier couldn't produce and that's that,

-that lady at Focal in Greenhills is always nice to me,

-Listening Group, what can I say?-and I better not 'coz my old boss will kill me:  she's happily married to Mr. Pe's son,  

-condolences to the staff of Audio Den, the guy who died in that car accident was a great loss.  

Offline gaol

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,652
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 29
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #134 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 11:40 AM »
To the list of good stores I'd like to add Melvyn Chua's DCM.  It's hell going to that store due to Cubao traffic and it's worse trying to park but the moment you hear Melvyn's sonorous Tagalog/English w/ Ilonggo accent,
he makes it all worth it.

On one particularly busy Saturday, a friend and I went there to audition some Arcam, Musical Fidelity and Mission stuff.  There were quite a number of people where the stuff in our budget were so Melvyn craftily and graciously turned the aircon on at his high end listening room (Nautilus 803 at that time, I think it's a JM Lab  mini Utopia there now) and gave us a taste of the high end.  He didn't have to do that, our stated budget could buy only half a monoblock in that room or maybe the power conditioner.  But he did it.  As a result, I've since recommended him to several friends (my headphone amp included) who have given DCM  business.

I agree with rtsy about Melvyn of DCM. He's very accommodating and very informative. I've had long talks with him on occasion. There was even one time that I was there during their merienda time and he graciously offered me something to eat, even though he really didn't have to.  This accommodating attitude is a major factor why I've bought quite a number of equipment from him. If it's Mission, Musical Fidelity, or item s he carries that I'm looking at, DCM is the first (and often the last) store I go to.

Regarding DCM's location, I think it's all a matter of perspective or where one is coming from.  DCM is actually not in the heart of the Cubao district but in one of the more quiet streets, so parking is relatively easy and there are ways to avoid traffic. I've had nothing but good experiences also with Sonny Tuazon and Rene Rivo, but since I'm Loyola Heights-based, I in turn find Makati parking, traffic and one-way streets can be a pain.

GAOL


« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2002 at 11:52 AM by gaol »

Offline stradale

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 310
  • It's better to burn out than to fade away.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #135 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 01:23 PM »
Bought most of my stuff from Sonny Tuazon and some from Rene Rivo.  I did so because I felt comfortable dealing with them.  They made sure of that.  Both are very accomodating and exude a sense of enthusiasm for their trade.  Parang secondary na lang yung business side sa kanila.

Sonny in particular even opened up a brand new box of B&W 602S3s and set them up just so he could demo some AVRs for me and my wife when I told him I had a pair of 602s at home.  Even my wife, who thought I was spending too much on this stuff, was impressed.

rtsy

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #136 on: Nov 23, 2002 at 10:34 PM »
Despite living abroad, I can also vouch for Ferdie Ludo of Sounds 'n Images in Cebu.

So Ferdi drained your wallet too, huh?   ;D

Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pinoydiophiles/message/3700
See how far Ferdi stretched to make my latest upgrade a reality.   8)

Offline LoBudget

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 133
  • Keep low, move fast...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #137 on: Nov 25, 2002 at 12:34 PM »
has anyone else had the experience of calling a shop and getting a price quote then when you actually get there a few hours later they hike up the prices from what they said it was????

Offline Hamann

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #138 on: Nov 29, 2002 at 02:42 AM »
Last saturday I was talking to one of the customers at The Home Theater named Vladi. It turns out that he too, had a run-in with Ceratec's Paul Ibanez.

He was browsing around the shop and was checking out a pair of speakers when the guy asked, "Eh bakit mo hinahawakan yan?" So Vladi replied, "Bakit, masama ba?"

This short exchange of words led them to full blown shouting match, similar to what happened to me. Vladi mentioned that he was also shown the door and told to get out. As Sonny Tuason himself was listening, he mentioned that he actually has had a number of customers complaining about his untowardly behaviour.

His manner of dealing with his customers is grossly offensive and repugnant. He should not be allowed to do business in the first place since he obviously does not know basic rules of courtesy.

I do hope people avoid his shop at all costs for their own sake. And for the sake of your friends, let them know not to even think of laying a foot in his shop.

Another example of the worst kind of customer service our fellow audiophiles have had to deal from this lowly riff-raff.

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #139 on: Nov 29, 2002 at 09:16 AM »
I will swear by the following dealers:

a) Architectural Audio - Nico and Epoy are very, very nice to deal with
b) Rene Rivo - you can actually touch his merchandise! just don't touch a tube while it is on, hindi sa magagalit si Rene, pero mapapaso ka!
c) Ferdi Ludo (Sights and Sounds) - the perfect example of long distance transaction

They all share these things in common:

TRUST - they will trust you, which is a test of your true person
PATIENCE - they all are patient in answering your questions, in looking after your needs
UNSELFISH - these are real people, with vast experience that they are more than willing to share

Offline notaku

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 315
  • No Life King
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #140 on: Dec 02, 2002 at 03:24 AM »

Offline Hamann

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #141 on: Dec 06, 2002 at 11:08 PM »
Don't tell me you still need me to explain that again ::)

Offline notaku

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 315
  • No Life King
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #142 on: Dec 13, 2002 at 08:08 PM »
Did you see tonight's "Game KNB?" with Kris Aquino?  the guy they featured, a Million-peso winner, used part of his winnings to buy what was quite clearly an entire set's worth of Ceratec speakers.

Guess he hasn't been reading this thread.  ;D

Offline stradale

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 310
  • It's better to burn out than to fade away.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #143 on: Dec 18, 2002 at 12:13 AM »
Had a chance to talk audio stuff with Wilfred Lim of Audio Visual Driver.  I haven't bought anything from him but his friendly and knowledgeable service just put him on my A-list of audio/video suppliers.  Check 'em out at Shangrila.

Offline DViant

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,953
  • HDMI ver 2.1
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: What Are your Thoughts on Phlippine Audio Stor
« Reply #144 on: Dec 25, 2002 at 02:07 AM »
I can bring in any Sennheiser product you want as we are the distributor for Sennheiser in the Phil.
Hi electronics-depot,

I have a pair on Sennheiser earphones whose headband was damaged while being transported. Can you replace the damaged headband andd if so for how much?

Offline DViant

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,953
  • HDMI ver 2.1
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: What Are your Thoughts on Phlippine Audio Stor
« Reply #145 on: Dec 25, 2002 at 02:15 AM »
They even showed me a software worth USD $10K they use for acoustic and sound system design called EASE (Electro-Acoustic Simulator for Engineers). I was impressed with the graphic display and was stunned when they gave me a headphones and listened to how your room will sound in the design stage.
Would bringing blueprints of the room you're planning to setup a HT help? :)

Offline DViant

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,953
  • HDMI ver 2.1
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: What Are your Thoughts on Phlippine Audio Stor
« Reply #146 on: Dec 25, 2002 at 02:18 AM »
I've had some experience in selling audio/video equipment before and believe me not all our sales staff are knowledgeable.
pero ang maganda dito sa states is that companies will spend money to get you trained. i've been sent to different convention/companies for product training (i.e. bose system, rca, pioneer etc.). ang maganda panga noon is that they will even let you borrow their equipment (to take home for a week) para you would have a more hands on experience and knowledge of their product. and the best benefit noon was they give special discounted prices for employees...the reason behind this..is
if you’re using their product, then it is easier for you to sell them.
so maybe if the owners would devote a training time like an hour or so everyday to their sales staff, then we would have better experience in their stores.

my 2 cents
bently

Wow... so where do I apply? I'd like to work for Sony so I can bring home a Sony Grand Wega. ;D

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #147 on: Jan 25, 2003 at 11:44 AM »
Re: No-refund policy of "Listening Room" Megamall.

When my cousin decided to buy his first DVD player, he asked me to recommend a good brand.  Being a Pioneer fan, I recommended the DV 355 or DV 555K, the latest entry-level Pioneer players.  Both are loaded with features, sport a handsome slim-line design, and are backed up by reliable performance and after-sales service.

On January 8, 2003, cousin bought a Pioneer DV 555K for P10,600.00 from "Listening Room" at the SM Megamall, a good retailer offering very competitive prices.  Listening Room advised him to test the player at home and that if there is any defect, they will gladly replace it with a new unit within 3 weeks from the date of purchase.

Heto ngayon ang problema.  

While playing clean, scratch-free original R1 and R3 DVD discs, the playback pauses, the picture pixellates, the player reloads and displays its "welcome" sign, then starts the program content all over again.  

E ano pa kaya?  E di namukha akong tanga.  Panay ang rekomenda ko ng Pioneer, palpak naman pala.  

We tried testing different R1 and R3 discs, checked voltage fluctuation, measured voltage output from the power outlet and used an AVR.  Ayos naman lahat, pero ganoon pa rin ang depekto.  I advised cousin to have the unit replaced.  "OK lang 'yan", I said, "Kahit anong brand, may nakakalusot sa quality control kung minsan.  Malabo naman na ganyan pa rin ang replacement unit kasi Pioneer 'yan".

So off he went to Listening Room on January 13, 2003 to ask for a replacement unit.  Mabait naman ang staff.  They just replaced the player with a new unit after cousin described the defect.  No hassle.  

Problema pa rin.  

The second player had exactly the same defect as the first.  E di ano pa nga ba?  E di lalo akong nagmukhang tanga.  

On January 21, 2003, since I happened to be at the Robinson's in Cainta, I went to the Listening Group's branch there called the "Listening in Style" and asked their tech guy about the 555K.  To my utter disbelief, he confirmed that he had already witnessed other 555K units malfunction several times on his showroom display!  He said that this surprised him since it's the first defective brand-new Pioneer model he's ever seen, and even the 355 and the old 533K were problem-free.    

Realizing that another 555K replacement unit will not help, cousin called the Listening Room at Megamall and requested that his 555K be replaced with a 355 and that the price difference of P2,800.00 be refunded.  However, he was informed by Minnie (the Listening Room cashier and OIC) that they can replace his 555K with a 355, but due to their no-refund policy, he should purchase other items from the store to cover the price difference.  

When cousin said that he has no use for any other item in their inventory, Minnie offered to replace his 555K with Pioneer's next higher model (a progressive scan player), on the condition that payment for the corresponding price difference be made.  Cousin politely refused, explaining that a progressive scan player will be an unnecessary expense on his part since his TV is a direct-view WEGA without progressive scan, but thanked Minnie anyway for her time.

When I learned about this unfortunate turn of events, I immediately wrote a letter stating that formal demand is hereby made upon the proprietor to pay a full refund within 5 days; otherwise, administrative and criminal actions will be filed against him forthwith for violation of the Consumer Act of the Philippines.

On January 22, 2003, cousin and I went to the Listening Room to issue a verbal demand for a full refund and, should they refuse, to personally serve a copy of the aforementioned demand letter.  

At the store, Minnie made a few phone calls in an attempt to help diagnose the problem, but since we had already tried the tests she suggested, we had to insist on a full refund because the defect appeared to be inherent in their entire inventory of 555K units.

Una, ayaw ni Minnie mag-refund ng P2,800.00 balance dahil sa no-refund company policy, pero pumayag na rin pagkatapos ng kulitan.  

Ang deperensiya, biglang sumabat si Oliver, the store's manager and/or proprietor.  (In all fairness, mukhang OK naman si Oliver, but try asking for a refund and see Dr. Jekyll transform into Mr. Hyde.)  

An unpleasant exchange between us ensued, the following being the respective positions of each side:

My position is that under R.A. 7394, otherwise known as "The Consumer Act of the Philippines", defective merchandise sold may be replaced, repaired or returned with a full refund at the option of the customer; and if the vendee chooses to be refunded in full, the vendor's refusal to comply is punishable by up to P50,000.00 fine or imprisonment of up to 5 years or both at the discretion of the Court, without prejudice to any liability incurred under the warranty.

On the other hand, Oliver's position is that a no-refund policy is not prohibited as long as the vendor readily replaces the defective item with other merchandise chosen by the customer, and that a no-refund policy cannot be considered illegal since the said policy is allegedly practiced by all vendors.

As a compromise, Oliver offered to replace cousin's 555K with a 355 and promised to refund the P2,800.00 balance, provided that there are no dents or scratches on the unit to be replaced.  Cousin accepted the offer kasi 'yon lang naman daw talaga ang original request niya.

The following day, cousin brought in the 555K, then Minnie replaced it with a 355 and refunded his P2,800.00 as agreed.  

Despite our differences, I can vouch that Oliver is true to his word.  Totoo 'yung warranty nila na "replace defective unit within 3 weeks".  Basta sinabi nilang babayaran ka nila bukas, magbabayad sila bukas.  No written agreement necessary.  

Cousin says his 355 is working fine so far.







« Last Edit: Mar 05, 2003 at 12:44 PM by barrister »

Offline MeowPao

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #148 on: Jan 25, 2003 at 11:25 PM »
Re: No-refund policy of "Listening Room" Megamall.

Ang deperensiya, biglang sumabat si Oliver, the store's manager and/or proprietor.  (In all fairness, mukhang OK naman si Oliver, but try asking for a refund and see Dr. Jekyll transform into Mr. Hyde.)  

As a compromise, Oliver offered to replace cousin's 555K with a 355 and promised to refund the P2,800.00 balance, provided that there are no dents or scratches on the unit to be replaced.  Cousin accepted the offer kasi 'yon lang naman daw talaga ang original request niya.

Despite our differences, I can vouch that Oliver is true to his word.  Totoo 'yung warranty nila na "replace defective unit within 3 weeks".  Basta sinabi nilang babayaran ka nila bukas, magbabayad sila bukas.  No written agreement necessary.  


Hi Barrister, welcome to the forum.  Are you a lawyer or something? :)

In cases like these, its best to transact and / or talk to the owner / proprietor of the shop. Most of the time, you get treated right, get good deals, and ok after-sales service.

In my case, I was able to talk to J.R., the proprietor of Listening in Style. His people delivered speakers with 'things' I did not like. They were even insisting that they did the right thing. When I informed him about my problem, he changed the speakers right the next day. I wouldn't have gotten that kind of good treatment if I talked to anyone else.  :)

Pero ganon talaga sa 'Pinas... consumers are not always protected. The most B.S. violators of the consumer laws are Auto Dealers. Try returning a 'lemon' they sold you and you're sure to get the run-around.

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:Your Thoughts on Philippine Audio Stores?
« Reply #149 on: Jan 26, 2003 at 02:55 AM »
Ok naman kausap si Oliver. Once, I returned a pair of speaker because I dont like the sound and they replaced it.  I replaced it with a  different brand but I have to pay for the price difference.