Author Topic: Question on the Holy Trinity  (Read 55410 times)

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Offline jerix

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #210 on: Oct 05, 2015 at 10:44 AM »
Of course they did not intend to be outsiders.  Why would anyone who wants salvation also want to be an outsider to salvation?

The way I see it, there are 2 alternatives.  Either believe the bible is the word of God, or don't believe the bible is the word of God.

If you think it is not possible to understand the bible or to ascertain the authenticity of scripture, then you should not believe the bible is the word of God. 

Because if the bible is indeed God's word, then God should have made sure that it would be possible to ascertain authenticity and understand His word.  Otherwise, it would be nonsensical for God to reveal Himself through something that would not be possible for anyone to understand. 

Therefore, if the bible cannot be understood, then it must have been authored by man and not by God.

And if you don't believe the bible is the word of God, that's your free choice, and I respect that viewpoint.

The bible has been well understood because everybody claims understanding of it, but the irony is the fact that such understanding did not result into harmony but a war among religions and groups in this Christian world of ours. If the  knowledge and wisdom comes from the God who created man, what happened? Following the bible idea that those that are not chosen will burn in hell, do you think God will be happy to see 99% of his creations, created into his image and likeness burning in hell forever? 
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Offline pTrader

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #211 on: Oct 05, 2015 at 10:52 AM »
The bible has been well understood because everybody claims understanding of it, but the irony is the fact that such understanding did not result into harmony but a war among religions and groups in this Christian world of ours. If the  knowledge and wisdom comes from the God who created man, what happened? Following the bible idea that those that are not chosen will burn in hell, do you think God will be happy to see 99% of his creations, created into his image and likeness burning in hell forever? 



To all who believes:

If the Holy Trinity postulates 3 equal Gods which existed co-equally even prior to creation, and Jesus Christ, the God with flesh, is supposed to be God the son, then who was God the son before the birth of Christ?

Thanks to anybody who will respond. :)

Before going any further, let us focus to your question on the first post.

According to the Father who was Jesus before:

Hebrew 1 NIV

8But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
 
10And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
 11they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
 12like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.a
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”


Hinde ba maliwanag ang sinabe ng AMA diyan sa talatang iyan kung sino ang ANAK. Kailangan pa ba ng malalim na interpretasyon para maintindihan.

Just read it plainly, Ano ba ang patotoo ng AMA sa ANAK?

Offline pTrader

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #212 on: Oct 05, 2015 at 10:57 AM »
Sa Tagalog na lang, Ano ba ang sabi ng AMA sa ANAK:

8Nguni't tungkol sa Anak ay sinasabi, Ang iyong luklukan, Oh Dios, ay magpakailan man; At ang setro ng katuwiran ay siyang setro ng iyong kaharian.


9Inibig mo ang katuwiran, at kinapootan mo ang kasamaan; Kaya't ang Dios, ang Dios mo, ay nagbuhos sa inyo, Ng langis ng kasayahang higit sa iyong mga kasamahan.

10At, Ikaw, Panginoon, nang pasimula'y inilagay mo ang kinasasaligan ng lupa, At ang mga langit ay mga gawa ng iyong mga kamay:

11Sila'y mangapapahamak; datapuwa't ikaw ay nananatili: At silang lahat ay mangalulumang gaya ng isang kasuutan;

12At gaya ng isang balabal sila'y iyong bibilutin, At sila'y mapapalitang gaya ng kasuutan: Nguni't ikaw ay ikaw rin, At ang iyong mga taon ay di matatapos.


Di ba maliwanag ang sinabe ng AMA sa ANAK?

May mga relihiyon at sa kanilang interpretasyon pinapabulaan ang sinabe ng AMA sa ANAK.

« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2015 at 10:59 AM by pTrader »

Offline barrister

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #213 on: Oct 05, 2015 at 11:01 AM »
The bible has been well understood because everybody claims understanding of it, but the irony is the fact that such understanding did not result into harmony but a war among religions and groups in this Christian world of ours. If the  knowledge and wisdom comes from the God who created man, what happened? Following the bible idea that those that are not chosen will burn in hell, do you think God will be happy to see 99% of his creations, created into his image and likeness burning in hell forever?

You say the bible has been well-understood simply because everybody claims to understand it?  That doesn't make sense.  A self-serving claim does not make the claim true.

No, the bible has not been well-understood.  Different denominational sects have different, contradictory interpretations.  They can't all be right. How can two contradictory interpretations be both correct?  One of them is right and the other is wrong, or they are both wrong.  But they can't be both right.

The number of those who will be saved is up to man's free will.  God wants all to be saved, but He will not interfere with man's free will.  If man refuses to follow Him, it's man's failure, not God's.

During the time of Noah, God drowned all humanity except eight persons.  I don't see any problem with that, because it was their own free choice that brought them to that end.  Noah was a prophet who warned them to repent or die in the coming flood, but they did not listen.

But on judgment day, it will not be only eight.  There will be so many that they will be 144,000 plus a multitude that no one can count.

4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. (Rev. 7:4, 9)
« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2015 at 11:25 AM by barrister »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #214 on: Oct 05, 2015 at 11:52 AM »
I think what Jerix meant sa "outsiders" would be those who were not yet aware of Jesus kaya:

Quote
they do not intend to be so.

If that is the case, then kaya tayo may Great Commission to spread the gospel for salvation.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #215 on: Oct 05, 2015 at 11:36 PM »
Just imagine if there is no Bible... mas malala ang mangyayari... :(:(:( there will be no guide, reference, or special revelation on the will of God. there will be Good News.

nangyari lamang na, the "enemy", use the same text to confuse more our minds.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #216 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:17 AM »
Just imagine if there is no Bible... mas malala ang mangyayari... :(:(:( there will be no guide, reference, or special revelation on the will of God. there will be Good News.

That's easy. Hindi naman Bible pinag-mulan ng code of conduct ng sibilisasyon e. Nakakagulo pa nga yung Bible e, ang daming interpretasyon.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #217 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:34 AM »
That's easy. Hindi naman Bible pinag-mulan ng code of conduct ng sibilisasyon e. Nakakagulo pa nga yung Bible e, ang daming interpretasyon.

ahh ok...

well... i always refer Bible as Word of God, vice versa.

ulitin ko lang...

Just imagine if there is no Word of God... mas malala ang mangyayari... there will be no guide, reference, or special revelation on the will of God. there will be no Good News.

by the way... i am not referring specifically sa "code of conduct"... it is more on revelation of God ng kanyang perfect plan of salvation.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #218 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:39 AM »
Wala namang proof na may God nga e. Belief lang natin yun.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #219 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:42 AM »
Wala namang proof na may God nga e. Belief lang natin yun.

yup. and i am not proving that God exist sa ni post ko. :) i am simply declaring my belife that the BIble is the Word of God, vice versa.
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:44 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #220 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:50 AM »
^Then why are you asking people to imagine a world without a Bible, when it's only your belief?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #221 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:53 AM »
the same as telling/asking people to belive in God when it is my only belief.

"just imagine if there is no God... so on and so forth"

i am posting under thread of Holy Trinity, so i assume we all believe here in the Bible. and if not, well maybe my post is not intended for him/her.
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 at 06:56 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #222 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 07:08 AM »
i am posting under thread of Holy Trinity, so i assume we all believe here in the Bible. and if not, well maybe my post is not intended for him/her.

Not necessarily. Hindi mo naman kailangan maniwala sa Bible para ma-discuss ito e.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #223 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 07:21 AM »
Not necessarily. Hindi mo naman kailangan maniwala sa Bible para ma-discuss ito e.

ah ok...

well, my only reference of my belief on God and His plan of salvation is the Bible...

thus...

just imagine if there is no Bible... there will be no Good News to share... there will be no Gospel to spread to all nations... the only hope of every nation is the Word of God...


That's easy. Hindi naman Bible pinag-mulan ng code of conduct ng sibilisasyon e. Nakakagulo pa nga yung Bible e, ang daming interpretasyon.

in reply

nangyari lamang na, the "enemy", use the same text to confuse more our minds.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #224 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 07:25 AM »
Again, it's easy to imagine. As to the "enemy", how are you sure you are not it? ;D

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #225 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 07:39 AM »
Again, it's easy to imagine. As to the "enemy", how are you sure you are not it? ;D

well, of course, i am not 'it', since i am human :)

one thing na natutunan ko by heart noong naging college na ako... "he/she" is different from "it" ;D
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #226 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 07:54 AM »
well, of course, i am not 'it', since i am human :)

one thing na natutunan ko by heart noong naging college na ako... "he/she" is different from "it" ;D

"Enemy" is gender neutral so "it" works. And again, how are you not the "enemy"?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #227 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 08:18 AM »
oh... di mo pala nagets sorry... when i say "enemy" i refer to "Satan" pala...

so you're asking me if i am "Satan" or not? or you're asking me if isa ako sa nadeceive ni "Satan"
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #228 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 08:43 AM »
oh... di mo pala nagets sorry... when i say "enemy" i refer to "Satan" pala...

so you're asking me if i am "Satan" or not? or you're asking me if isa ako sa nadeceive ni "Satan"

Let's go with the latter.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #229 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 09:01 AM »
Let's go with the latter.

i am not.


There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #230 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 09:03 AM »
How are you not?

Offline barrister

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #231 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 10:14 AM »
I think what Jerix meant sa "outsiders" would be those who were not yet aware of Jesus kaya:

If that is the case, then kaya tayo may Great Commission to spread the gospel for salvation.

Being aware of Jesus is no assurance that a person will be part of the flock and no longer an outsider.

Dito na lang sa pinoydvd, is there anyone here who is not yet aware of Jesus?

During Jesus' time, there were those who were not only aware of Jesus, they even saw Him face to face and became His disciples, yet they still turned away:

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. (John 6:66)

Face to face na nga kay Hesus at disipulo pa Niya, umayaw pa rin.  Yun pa kayang awareness lang ang meron kay Hesus ang hindi umayaw?

That is because the word of God is not intended to be understood by everyone.  It is intended to be understood only by those who believe.  That is why the bible says the Gospel is veiled to those who refuse to believe:

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Cor. 4:3-4)

I'm sure you have experienced it many times.  Evangelize all you want, until you are blue in the face, and they still won't believe.  That's why Jesus explained:

31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ (Luke 16:31)

That's why I keep saying, don't believe in the bible if you don't want to.  Wala namang pilitan yan e. ;)
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 at 10:42 AM by barrister »

Offline pTrader

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #232 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 10:46 AM »
I think here, people are aware about Jesus, it is only how they know Jesus matters; the reason why the question below about Jesus is being asked.

The first post is more about a question about Jesus not merely about Trinity.

To all who believes:

If the Holy Trinity postulates 3 equal Gods which existed co-equally even prior to creation, and Jesus Christ, the God with flesh, is supposed to be God the son, then who was God the son before the birth of Christ?

Thanks to anybody who will respond. :)

Offline pTrader

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #233 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:03 AM »
Wala namang proof na may God nga e. Belief lang natin yun.

Sa panahon  ni Moses meron and He did appear:

Exo 33:21Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

Jesus while on earth:

John 1:18No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side,f he has made him known.

It is not merely belief but  there are witnesses who have testified, ayaw lang natin maniwala gaya ng posting ni barrister:

31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ (Luke 16:31)

They have seen Jesus, the only God (John1:18) face to face ayaw pang maniwala, e paano sa panahon ngayon na inde natin nakikita si Jesus?

« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:04 AM by pTrader »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #234 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:14 AM »
Sa panahon  ni Moses meron and He did appear:

Kung kasambahay namin dati, nakakita raw ng tikbalang. Does that mean totoo tikbalang?

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #235 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:17 AM »
Kung kasambahay namin dati, nakakita raw ng tikbalang. Does that mean totoo tikbalang?

San sa Bible yun tikbalang?

Offline pTrader

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #236 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:23 AM »
Kung kasambahay namin dati, nakakita raw ng tikbalang. Does that mean totoo tikbalang?

Kaya nga ito ang sinabe:

31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ (Luke 16:31)

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #237 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:25 AM »
Kaya nga ito ang sinabe:

31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ (Luke 16:31)

Sinabi rin ng kasambahay ko yan e. "Maniwala ka sa akin, di ako nagbibiro."

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #238 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:28 AM »
Sinabi rin ng kasambahay ko yan e. "Maniwala ka sa akin, di ako nagbibiro."

Meron naman Bible verse reference....yun sa kasambahay mo meron din ba?

Offline barrister

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #239 on: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:36 AM »
Ang wika, "if they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets."


Hindi sinabing "if they do not listen to yaya"  ...   ;)
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 at 11:37 AM by barrister »