Author Topic: Plasma vs LCD ?  (Read 278948 times)

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Offline DViant

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #90 on: Sep 24, 2006 at 05:43 AM »
An updated answer to a years old question... plasma vs LCD

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/14/technology/14basics.html?ex=1159156800&en=dffe6a8faedc9172&ei=5070

It looks like LCD is starting to be more and more of a better solution

Offline TSXdriver

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Re:Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #91 on: Dec 12, 2006 at 03:21 AM »
its better to use plasma display.
Odyopayl was right.
Plasma has a better picture quality than LCD, 180 degrees viewing angles and plasma also has a longer life span than LCD 25,000 hours to 80,000 hours depends on the manufacturer. Check our new sales & event under General..

Meridian Audio
Listening In Style


LCD-TVs have a life-span now up to 80,000hrs and in fact, an LCD TV will last as long as its backlight does - and those bulbs can sometimes be replaced! Since this is nothing more than light passing through a prismatic substrate, there is essentially nothing to wear out in an LCD monitor.  LCDs utilize substantially less power to operate than plasmas do. LCD TVs consume about half the power that plasma displays consume. Viewing angle for LCD are now up to 170°

Plasma-TVs have a reported half life of 30,000 to 60,000 hours. Half-life is the time it takes the lamp to fade to half its original brightness.  Plasmas use a lot of electricity to light each and every pixel you see on a screen - even the dark ones - plasma TV will consume around a third more power for the same size display.  Typical viewing angle for Plasma is 160°
Pinoy TSXdriver

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #92 on: Dec 12, 2006 at 11:47 AM »

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #93 on: Feb 02, 2007 at 08:30 PM »
Plasma Shipments Disappoint; First Quarter Over Quarter Decline Since 2003
01-31-07 

http://www.rtoonline.com/Content/Article/Jan07/PlasmaShipmentsFallInQ4_013107.asp



LCDs To Account For 33% of Total TV Shipments In 2007; 60% By 2011
02-01-07

http://www.rtoonline.com/Content/Article/Feb07/TVShare020107.asp
« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2007 at 08:36 PM by barrister »

Offline greyman

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #94 on: Feb 05, 2007 at 07:37 AM »
plasma's disadvantages have been adressed:

the latest plasma panels from toshiba and pioneer have addressed the problem of burn-in. they subtly shift the pixels so the same pixels aren't lighted the same the whole time.

about power consumption: power consumption of lcd panels are constant regardless of how bright or dark the scenes are. in a plasma panel, power consumption is lesser on dark scenes and slightly higher on bright shows like news broadcasts. (who watches broadcasts nowadays when news rss is better, more concise?) electricity consumption is more on a lcd compared to plasma panels of the same size (more so in the bigger displays >50in).

plasma's advantages are not worth getting it:
1. longer half life
2. darker black
3. more vivid colors
4. sharper moving scenes
5. better suited to the average home ambient lighting

Offline ericag_ph

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #95 on: Feb 05, 2007 at 08:12 AM »
Hitachi (plasma) has a pixel-shifting feature.  The salesguy was even boasting the feature. But in that same shop where the plasma ran several hours a day a movie that did not occupy the entire screen (black bars at top and bottom), I was able to see the burn-in problem.  In a totally white background display occupying the entire screen, the "burned-in" image appeared as a darker white where the black bars normally would be.  I told the salesguy, so what is that, looks like a burn-in to me?  Doesn't seem to work very well (the anti-burn-in feature).  He didn't have a reply.

This was the reason I settled on a samsung LCD...and a lot of the shows I have been watching are 4:3 (black bars on left and right).  No problems even after 100+hrs of 4:3 viewing (TV series).

plasma's disadvantages have been adressed:

the latest plasma panels from toshiba and pioneer have addressed the problem of burn-in. they subtly shift the pixels so the same pixels aren't lighted the same the whole time.


Offline Munskie

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #96 on: Feb 05, 2007 at 08:48 AM »
so if your gonna use it in some gaming consoles...better to use LCD?  coz of the burn in problems of plasma?

Offline chuckyboy

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #97 on: Feb 05, 2007 at 12:10 PM »

plasma's advantages are not worth getting it:
1. longer half life
2. darker black
3. more vivid colors
4. sharper moving scenes
5. better suited to the average home ambient lighting

Greyman,

Plasma's advantage you quoted above seem more than enough reason to go Plasma. I am in a market for 50-in plasma or 47-in LCD but so far my research points to Plasma (I will be using it as regular TV hooked up to CATV and occasional DVD using HDMI).

Or am I just missing something? Thanks

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #98 on: Feb 05, 2007 at 02:46 PM »
plasma's disadvantages have been adressed:

the latest plasma panels from toshiba and pioneer have addressed the problem of burn-in. they subtly shift the pixels so the same pixels aren't lighted the same the whole time.

Matagal na ang motion adaptive burn in technology (pixel shifting/pixel orbiter).  The more recent technology is an improvement in the phosphor itself, specifically the green phosphor layer, that makes the panel more resistant to burn in, thereby increasing phosphor and screen lifespan to CRT levels.

The new consumer versions of Panasonic plasmas don't even have a pixel shifting option.  I consider this an indication of the manufacturer's confidence in its new phosphors.  However, Panasonic's commercial models (monitor only, no speakers, no tuners) still have this pixel shift option. 


Hitachi (plasma) has a pixel-shifting feature.  The salesguy was even boasting the feature. But in that same shop where the plasma ran several hours a day a movie that did not occupy the entire screen (black bars at top and bottom), I was able to see the burn-in problem.  In a totally white background display occupying the entire screen, the "burned-in" image appeared as a darker white where the black bars normally would be.  I told the salesguy, so what is that, looks like a burn-in to me?  Doesn't seem to work very well (the anti-burn-in feature).  He didn't have a reply.

It's either an older generation panel or a defective unit, since as far as I know, Hitachi has no bad reputation concerning burn-in issues.  It may also be "IR" (Image Retention), which is a temporary condition; as distinguished from true burn-in, which is permanent.
 
After browsing U.S., U.K. and Australian forums, I found that Samsung plasma panels these days still have burn-in problems.

This was the reason I settled on a samsung LCD...and a lot of the shows I have been watching are 4:3 (black bars on left and right).  No problems even after 100+hrs of 4:3 viewing (TV series).

Walang problema ang LCD sa burn-in since there are no phosphors to burn, pero may problema naman ang LCD sa dead pixels.  Kanya-kanyang problema lang 'yan.


about power consumption: power consumption of lcd panels are constant regardless of how bright or dark the scenes are. in a plasma panel, power consumption is lesser on dark scenes and slightly higher on bright shows like news broadcasts. (who watches broadcasts nowadays when news rss is better, more concise?) electricity consumption is more on a lcd compared to plasma panels of the same size (more so in the bigger displays >50in).

LCD panels have a constant backlight, but power consumption is slightly higher for dark scenes because the liquid crystal element has to twist to block the backlight.  On bright scenes, power consumption is less because the pixel is turned off to let the backlight shine through.

With plasma panels, it's the other way around.  For bright scenes, the pixel is on; for dark scenes, the pixel is off. 

That's why it's inherently easier for a plasma panel to produce blacks -- all it has to do is turn the pixel off.  For LCD panels, it's hard to produce good blacks because there will always be some backlight leaking through the twisted liquid crystal element.       


plasma's advantages are not worth getting it:
1. longer half life
2. darker black
3. more vivid colors
4. sharper moving scenes
5. better suited to the average home ambient lighting

As regards #5, I would say that LCD is better suited to average home lighting conditions.  The average living room is usually bright, which is conducive to good LCD performance --- black level deficiencies are not too obvious, no screen reflections, and the very bright panel is more than sufficient to overcome the bright surrounding environment.

As regards black levels, color accuracy and motion blur, LCD panels with LED backlight should be very interesting once they're released: 

Samsung 40-inch LED LCD TV
http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/09/08/samsung_40inch_led_lcd_tv.html



=============================================================



I predict that LCD will replace the CRT as the mainstream display panel of choice.  Plasma and projectors will fall by the wayside as products for the niche market.

As for LCD vs. plasma: neither is perfect, and both technologies have their faults.  Weighing those faults is a matter of personal preference. 
« Last Edit: Feb 06, 2007 at 08:39 PM by barrister »

Offline ericag_ph

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #99 on: Feb 06, 2007 at 09:40 AM »
How old a generation can it be?  I saw the Hitachi plasma unit just 5 months ago.
Defective?  Well, for me, it sure is with a burn-in like that...
and from what I saw, its the feature (pixel shifting/anti-burn-in) that didn't really do the job to prevent burn-ins.
When you stress a display like that (on several hours a day, 7 days a week) it's more of a permanent thing (burned-in) rather than temporary.
It's a wishful thought that is a temporary condition.  That's why everyone is aware the main problem of plasma is burn-in.

Maybe it's still in the shop...Western, basement, Mega Mall A.  Check it out yourself and make a determination.  I asked the sales guy to display a white background since I noticed the unit was running a movie with black bars top+bottom.  Chances are they rarely change the movie.


It's either an older generation panel or a defective unit, since as far as I know, Hitachi has no bad reputation concerning burn-in issues.  It may also be "IR" (Image Retention), which is a temporary condition; as distinguished from true burn-in, which is permanent.

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #100 on: Feb 06, 2007 at 10:17 AM »
Well, you have a point. 

While burn in is much less of a problem these days for plasmas, it's undeniable that the problem still exists.  It's one of the biggest reasons why plasma sales are down.


Offline ericag_ph

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #101 on: Feb 06, 2007 at 05:57 PM »
The thing is, even DVD movies sometimes do not occupy the entire 16:9 screen...would depend on the theatrical aspect ratio...
so you would still have black bars at the top and bottom.  And cable TV/TV series DVDs are usually 4:3 adding to the problem.
As far as I can recall, with 600 DVD origs...I think only my anamorphic DVDs occupy the entire 16:9 screen (can't remember).
And if using f*kes...well sometimes they have black bars on the left,right,top,bottom when displayed via HDMI.
For PS2, I have noticed that even when set to "full screen" or "16:9", most games I have would still have a little black bar on the left and right.

I remember one suggestion though for gaming and plasma...set "torch mode" to off to prevent burn-in. Don't know if that would do the trick.

so if your gonna use it in some gaming consoles...better to use LCD?  coz of the burn in problems of plasma?
« Last Edit: Feb 06, 2007 at 06:00 PM by ericag_ph »

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #102 on: Feb 06, 2007 at 08:51 PM »
so if your gonna use it in some gaming consoles...better to use LCD?  coz of the burn in problems of plasma?

That's right.

I remember one suggestion though for gaming and plasma...set "torch mode" to off to prevent burn-in. Don't know if that would do the trick.

It reduces the likelihood of burn-in, but it's still not a guarantee that the panel would be burn-in proof.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's what one member is saying at AVSForum's Panasonic FAQ thread:

Hey Bruzzi,

Just an update... My kids do just that to a 50"-7gen panel (TH50PHD7UY). Two years now, and still "showing" strong.

Since it's their TV... who cares what they do to it... right???; ...and I do know they leave PS-2 and Gamecube images on the screen static, for long periods of time, even overnight. They still apparently don't know where the power button is for the monitor, or their game consoles.

I used to flip out about it in the beginning, telling them what was going to happen to the screen, but not anymore. They didn't believe me then... and they definitely don't believe me two years later. It's now become a battle over wasting electricity. I've looked closely for signs of IR or permanent burn-in, but can't find even a remote indication of either.

You've got to figure that there have been additional improvements in the last two generations of panels.

I wouldn't suggest anyone trying this, especially on your primary display. Who know's... maybe I got the "freak" panel. But as I stated, not even an inkling of IR or Burn-in... and that's on an abused panel.

So if you take reasonable care in your viewing habits, burn-in and IR should be a non issue with Panny Panels.

Now if I only had the $70K for that 103"....... Oh yea... and the wall for it where a forklift can reach...LOL.

PANASONIC
Kid tested tough!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9535557#post9535557
« Last Edit: Feb 06, 2007 at 08:53 PM by barrister »

Offline chuckyboy

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #103 on: Feb 07, 2007 at 12:52 PM »

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9535557#post9535557
[/quote]

I also do my research on AVSforum and most people there say that Plasma still better than LCD (although the gap is narrower than before) for day-to-day TV, DVD viewing and even gaming. The newer Plasmas from Pioneer (507xg) and Panasonic (50px60u) are really very good. IMHO the colors/flesh tone are more involving and natural with Plasmas.


Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #104 on: Feb 07, 2007 at 01:32 PM »
I agree.  Pioneer and Panasonic are the best.  Since Pioneer is way too expensive, I settled on the Panasonic.

OK na rin ang Panasonic plasma prices sa Philippines, since Japan made pa rin ang stocks dito. 



Sa U.S., Mexico made/assembled na daw:

I have a light buzzing noise and I am at sea level so I am not sure if that is 100% true. I did notice mine was made in Mexico before I put it up. The buzz doesnt really bother me, I can only hear it when I walk by the tv.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9707008&&#post9707008



Sa Australia naman, China made/assembled daw:

Has anyone noticed that on the back of this model some say made in japan and some made in china ? - not that it probably makes any difference. Just seems od for the same model to have 2 different sources.

yes i noticed this,

however I believe panasonic's have change the location to china recently early 2006, so all stock should be made in china.

Showrooms still have made in japan because these were probably older

China - Japan , Im watching my China one now, its still all good.


http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=42386&view=findpost&p=558847
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2007 at 04:55 PM by barrister »

Offline tidus1203

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #105 on: Feb 22, 2007 at 11:31 AM »
for overall everyday use I'd say LCD....

Offline tambutsoo

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #106 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 11:46 AM »
Plasma PQ is the best.

Offline jvm

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #107 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 11:57 AM »
Plasma PQ is the best.

I agree! After a week of stressful testing of LCD's, I ended with a plasma ;D

Offline dB10

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #108 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 01:24 PM »
I agree! After a week of stressful testing of LCD's, I ended with a plasma ;D

I agree! after months of stressful testing of both, I ended with a plasma ;)
I used to think LCD is the better way, luckily my LCD unit was defective and it gave me the opportunity to switch to a plasma instead ! Given that both have their own panel problems, pq then comes out as the first priority in deciding (unless you're an avid gamer, lcd is the safer decision, im not  :)

got the pio427 last week, impressive! had it calibrated by pio yesterday and it became even more suptle to the eyes! (just try watching Cars on it and you will see how different it is to other panels)

jvm, excuse the mirror quotes above  :)
"...be careful & ready what you wish for, it may come true"

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #109 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 01:35 PM »
got the pio427 last week, impressive! had it calibrated by pio yesterday and it became even more suptle to the eyes! (just try watching Cars on it and you will see how different it is to other panels)

I've seen this on display at an appliance store -- standard DVD pa lang ang demo nila. I must agree, the picture is indeed stunning. 

I notice that most prospective buyers of big TVs are more interested in specs than anything else.  If specs are more important to the buyer, he will probably choose LCD. 

But if image quality is the most imporant factor to him and he actualy gives the TVs an eyeball test, especially under dim lighting, he would probably choose plasma.  Image depth ("3D" effect) on a plasma has a wow factor that just can't be duplicated on an LCD. 
« Last Edit: Feb 23, 2007 at 02:06 PM by barrister »

Offline dB10

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #110 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 04:24 PM »
a clean panel with depth and life like images (window view)... it's worth every penny ;)....looking forward to keep her a few good years of fun watching!!!
"...be careful & ready what you wish for, it may come true"

Offline staind01

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #111 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 04:40 PM »
i agree that the plasma PQ is better than LCD.

unfortunately, walang Panny PX60U dito e. :( meron ba?  and the panny 600U & pioneer elites cost an arm and a leg! :(

haven't checked the Hitachis yet. will do this weekend. sana meron sa GH and sana within budget! :D


the PQs on the N71, V200 and higher models are close to plasma though.

Offline dB10

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #112 on: Feb 23, 2007 at 11:01 PM »
my suggestion if you want to demo several units, try to go to a big store where they have all, if not most of the units you're interested so you could do side by side demo, pref using the same source at the same time, that way you could spot the differences of each...just my 2 cents ;)

dont forget to try to have each unit set up/calibrated to its best before the shoot out...while doing this, the other guys can try to talk with one sales rep after the other so they can spill the beans on their competitors deficiencies...talagang competition sila!

then you could go on your haggling with the different stores since you have an idea already which are your candidates, individual preferences na lang ;)

lastly, think about the next most important thing you need after getting your tv, service and warranty....
from my personal experience just recently, i'm sure glad to have bought a tv with a factory warranty and a reputable store, coz you cant tell if you're gonna get the odd stock from the thousands built...

good luck guys!

"...be careful & ready what you wish for, it may come true"

Offline barrister

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Re:Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #113 on: Feb 24, 2007 at 02:21 PM »
Anyway, I am for LCD. I read somewhere that Sony has stopped their R&D for plasma and they are putting their money on:

L C D  ;D

I am sure a major company like Sony had sufficient research to back up this move. So I am safe to agree with em.


Sa tingin ko, nagconcentrate ang Sony sa LCD kasi alam nilang palpak ang plasma ng Sony.

I'm guessing that Sony's research and decision to go for LCD was motivated primarily by the need to survive in the marketplace more than anything else.  They probably admitted to themselves that they would never be good enough in plasma technology to defeat Pioneer and Panasonic, but if they concentrated on LCD, there's a big chance that they can be the market leader in LCD.  

And it seems that Sony's decision to go all out for LCD was right.  To my eyes, Sony Bravias are now the finest LCDs available today, and it's doubtful if they could have achieved this if their attention on LCD technology were not as focused.  Sony may have a lot of problems with their product lines these days, but their Bravia LCDs and Cybershot cameras are reportedly doing very well.  

Sony provoked an all-out display panel war by running a series of print ads dubbed as the "HD challenge", essentially arguing that if viewed with the lighting conditions of the average home, LCD will beat plasma in a side by side comparison.  I hear that it's not just an information campaign -- it's an open challenge to any plasma manufacturer.

Panasonic countered by conducting demos, placing print ads and distributing marketing materials to educate the average consumer about the virtues of plasma.   On the other hand, Pioneer commissioned IDC (a researcher for consumer technology) to write a white paper comparing plasma and LCD (tests conducted by ISF [Imaging Science Foundation] technicians). 

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/273087528Pioneer%20DTV%20White%20Paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/plasma_central/plasma_vs_lcd.asp

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/25/technology/25flat.html?ex=1324702800&en=5384410d70a991c4&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Today, it is undisputed that market preference is definitely for LCD.  With LCD technology continuously improving and 40+ inch LCD prices constantly dropping, it's unlikely that plasma can ever catch up on market share.
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2007 at 03:24 PM by barrister »

Offline dB10

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #114 on: Feb 24, 2007 at 06:30 PM »
a big company like sony could drum up a lot of attention thru advertisements/campaigns, thus creating the market for its product, the others follows suit then...

it may be a matter of time before lcd achieves plasma pq, with the kind of war chest they have put on it.  by that time hopefully we all have enough to buy the 'new' tv and say goodbye to our old 'reference' tv...until then....but not yet, not yet  :D
"...be careful & ready what you wish for, it may come true"

Offline staind01

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #115 on: Feb 26, 2007 at 09:34 AM »
can we create a poll for your preference? CRT, RPTV, Plasma or LCD?

can't seem to create one. :( this is it'll be easier to view the preferences of the members in a graph.

thanks!

Offline pchin

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Re:Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #116 on: Feb 26, 2007 at 09:48 AM »

To my eyes, Sony Bravias are now the finest LCDs available today, and it's doubtful if they could have achieved this if their attention on LCD technology were not as focused. 

Today, it is undisputed that market preference is definitely for LCD.  With LCD technology continuously improving and 40+ inch LCD prices constantly dropping, it's unlikely that plasma can ever catch up on market share.

Whew...after seeing the LCD SONY Bravia demo, OMG it's simply gorgeous & PQ is breath-taking! I can imagine using it to playback our HD movies :o Will wait utill the 1080p LCD drops in price to a level that meets my budget  :)

Offline barrister

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #117 on: Feb 26, 2007 at 03:43 PM »
Hitachi, Panasonic and Pioneer collaborate and set up a plasma vs LCD info campaign website:

http://www.plasma-lcd-facts.eu/home/

It looks like they're getting very nervous ;D.
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2007 at 03:44 PM by barrister »

Offline pchin

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #118 on: Feb 26, 2007 at 10:32 PM »
Hehe the reports seems very bias noh...of cos that's intentionally!  ;D

Offline dB10

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Re: Plasma vs LCD ?
« Reply #119 on: Feb 26, 2007 at 11:17 PM »
the study was openly sponsored by those who have most to lose with the media campaign LCD makers/integrators are waging, plasma designer-makers.

with the LCD getting into the plasma market of 40" and above, plasma is really threatened, but in fairness, if you look at them side by side and compare at this time you will see why plasma is still preferred for those sizes +40"....

with 37" and below go for LCD no doubt...bigger than that its not yet advisable at this time,

who knows maybe this year or next, but who can tell and who can wait? (and afford)...patience is a virtue!
"...be careful & ready what you wish for, it may come true"