Author Topic: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE  (Read 86991 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #240 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 04:41 PM »
Hilig nyo kasi magpapatol.. >:D >:D >:D >:D

Di ba preacher si sir JT? 

Delikado ang ginagawa niya sir.  Biro mo, kakapiraso alam sa bibliya, lakas na ng loob mangaral?
 
 
========================================

 
O, kahit "Without the Bible" ang topic, pagbigyan natin ang bible proof niya:
 

Now please allow me to use a scripture. In  Joshua 10:11-13 "And it happened, as they fled before Israel and were on the descent of Beth Horon, that the Lord cast down large hailstones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died from the hailstones than the children of Israel killed with the sword. Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel: “Sun, stand still over Gibeon; And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.” So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day."

So in order for Joshua to stop daytime (as he needs the sunlight during the battle), he commanded the sun and the moon to stop. Notice, he did not commanded the earth to stop and also the sun is moving. Even if the sun and the moon stop while earth still spinning, there should still be nightime right?

If someone today says the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, do we contradict him, saying the sun neither rises or sets, because it's the earth that rotates?

Of course not.  It's an expression from the point of view of the observer on earth.

When the PAGASA gives us tomorrow's sunrise and sunset times, is it wrong for them to call it "sunrise" and "sunset" since the sun neither rises nor sets, and it's actually the earth that's rotating on its axis?

Of course not.  Meteorologists are using ordinary language from the point of view of the earth-bound observer as reference.

The bible also uses language from the point of view of the earth-bound observer.

When the bible says the sun rises, sets and hurries to the place where it rises, it is using poetic language from the reference point of a human living on earth.

When the bible says the sun stood still, it is speaking from the reference point of an earth-bound human.  It is not proof that the earth is flat.
 

Biblically, one of Jesus temptations was he sent to a very high place and showed to him all the kingdoms of the world.

Luke 4: 5 says:

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. (KJV)
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. (NIV)


Why were the kingdoms shown by the devil "in an instant" or "in a moment of time"?  Ang bilis naman.  Bawal tumingin nang matagal?   ;D

Mabilis lang, kasi vision lang yon.  Hindi literal, physical, actual kingdoms ang pinakita. 

Bakit nasa mataas na bundok?  Kasi symbolic progression of temptation from lower to higher power and authority offered to the tempted.

First temptation, in the desert; second, from the highest point of the temple; third, from a very high mountain.  (Mt. 4:1-11)

 
And at Jesus 2nd coming, all will see Him coming down from the sky. Not possible with the globe.

Why would it not be possible with the globe?  Because if Christ comes down on a specific part of the globe, the people living on the other side of the globe will not be able to see Him?

There are less than 7 billion people on earth.  They all live on a round earth.

If God supernaturally gathers them all in one place so that all can see Christ coming down, how much space would they need to occupy?

If all 6.8 billion people on earth gathered in one place, all of them would fit in Texas, and their population density would be the same as in New York City.  At that comfortable population density, they would need only 666,265 square kilometers, which is in fact a bit smaller than the size of Texas.

Therefore, it is possible for all people to simultaneously see Christ coming down from heaven even if the earth is round.

Let's look at the number of all people who have ever been born, estimated at around 108 billion.  How much land area is needed to contain 108 billion people?

Manila has a population density of 42,857/sq. km.  108 billion people divided by a density of 42,857/sq.km. will give us a land area of 2.52 million sq.km., which is less than half the size of Brazil.

This means all of the people born on earth since the existence of the human race, if gathered in one place while maintaining the same population density as Manila, will fit in less than half of Brazil.
« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2015 at 10:10 PM by barrister »

Offline majoe

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #241 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 05:03 PM »
Di ba preacher si sir JT? 

Delikado ang ginagawa niya sir.  Biro mo, kakapiraso alam sa bibliya, lakas na ng loob mangaral?
 



delikado talaga kung preacher nga sya at may maniwala. at mas delikado dahil lalung dadami ang atheist pag ganyan ang ipapangaral nya.

Offline majoe

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #242 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 05:27 PM »


If God supernaturally gathers them all in one place so that all can see Christ coming down, how much space would they need to occupy?



possible pa rin naman kahit walang supernatural na mangyari.
dahil sa paglago ng kaalaman, mabibilis na ang means of transport ng mga tao in the near future.
kahit outer space travel, magiging normal na lang yan.
 

Offline dpogs

  • Trade Count: (+95)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,397
  • love and discipline
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 484
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #243 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 08:38 PM »
Nagkalat na ang tv/video, live stream... Sa pagbaba ni Jesus sa 2nd coming niya, aba eh makikita talaga siya mg tao. :-)
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline dpogs

  • Trade Count: (+95)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,397
  • love and discipline
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 484
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #244 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 08:42 PM »
The earth is flat then what... Therefore God exist?


Akala ko kung anong proof ang gagawin without using the Bible, ang proof lang pala na sasabihin is "the earth is flat" therefore there is God.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline majoe

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #245 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 08:51 PM »
Nagkalat na ang tv/video, live stream... Sa pagbaba ni Jesus sa 2nd coming niya, aba eh makikita talaga siya mg tao. :-)

yan nga sabi ni brod eli, hehe.
pero possible pa rin namang makita ng lahat kung ang descent ay tatagal ng at least 12 hours habang si Jesus ay nasa clouds paikot sa earth.
« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2015 at 09:21 PM by majoe »

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #246 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 08:54 PM »
The earth is flat then what... Therefore God exist?


Akala ko kung anong proof ang gagawin without using the Bible, ang proof lang pala na sasabihin is "the earth is flat" therefore there is God.


Tama.  Even if he proves that the earth is flat, it still would not be proof that God exists.

Ang problema niya, "earth is flat" pa lang nangamote na, e lalong hindi makakarating yan sa "God exists." :D 

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #247 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 09:08 PM »
Nagkalat na ang tv/video, live stream... Sa pagbaba ni Jesus sa 2nd coming niya, aba eh makikita talaga siya mg tao. :-)

Puwede rin.

Pero kahit gawin mong literal na "every eye shall see him" (Rev. 1:7) na actual na nakita at hindi TV broadcast lang, posible pa rin. 

Kahit saan mo tignan, hindi pa rin kailangan ng flat earth para matupad ang prophecy.
« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2015 at 09:17 PM by barrister »

Offline rulesmeister

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 341
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #248 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 09:59 PM »
Just read this thread, meron pa rin palang naniniwala na the Earth is flat in this time and age? 21st century na. I thought this concept was proven untrue (busted) by Magellan during the 16th century?

« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2015 at 10:25 PM by rulesmeister »

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #249 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 10:38 PM »
yan nga sabi ni brod eli, hehe.
pero possible pa rin namang makita ng lahat kung ang descent ay tatagal ng at least 12 hours habang si Jesus ay nasa clouds paikot sa earth.

Hindi puwedeng bumaba si Kristo nang paikot sa mundo sir.  Kokontrahin niyan ang Acts 1:9-12 ---
 
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
 
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

 
12 Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

According to verses 9 and 12, Christ was "taken up" from the Mount of Olives into heaven.  He did not encircle the earth as He was ascending, because He was taken up before their very eyes.  Hindi nawala sa paningin kasi umikot sa mundo; nawala sa paningin kasi nasa ulap na.
 
According to verse 11, Christ will "come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
 
Therefore, if Christ went up from Mount Olivet, He will return by descending to Mount Olivet.  Hindi puwedeng straight going up, but encircling going down.
« Last Edit: Sep 02, 2015 at 10:57 PM by barrister »

Offline rulesmeister

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 341
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #250 on: Sep 02, 2015 at 11:32 PM »
ung logic kasi nya is for all the people to watch christ's 2nd coming, the earth has to be flat. kasi naman matatakpan ung line of sight ng tao if nasa kabilang side ng globe ka nakatingin. So therefore flat it is..

Sabihin na nga lang naten flat nga ang earth, therefore direct line of sight lahat ng mga mata ng tao if christ came from above (heavens). Eh hindi mo pa rin makikita si christ if nasa malayong lugar ka (nasa new zealand ka) and christ came from the heavens, eh tyempo dun lumitaw sa bandang itaas ng china. Ang liit na nun to a point na wala ka pa ring makikita. (parang nanunuod ka ng open-air concert, ndi mo na halos makikita ung singer if nasa pinakadulo ka; multiply this distance by several million km)... baka naman sabihin mo may telescope naman bawat tao? eh sa sobrang layo nun sobrasobrang laki ng lente ng telescope para mapanood mo. 

Sir, kong flat ang earth, eh dapat nakikita mo ung mt everest dyan sa inyo kasi sobrang mataas ung bundok na un at sobrang laki pa?

Circular but flat? This is impossible. You cannot even visualize this.

just imagine a bluray disc w/out the center hole, un ang earth daw
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2015 at 12:01 AM by rulesmeister »

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #251 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 12:58 AM »
Sabihin na nga lang naten flat nga ang earth, therefore direct line of sight lahat ng mga mata ng tao if christ came from above (heavens). Eh hindi mo pa rin makikita si christ if nasa malayong lugar ka (nasa new zealand ka) and christ came from the heavens, eh tyempo dun lumitaw sa bandang itaas ng china. Ang liit na nun to a point na wala ka pa ring makikita. (parang nanunuod ka ng open-air concert, ndi mo na halos makikita ung singer if nasa pinakadulo ka; multiply this distance by several million km)... baka naman sabihin mo may telescope naman bawat tao? eh sa sobrang layo nun sobrasobrang laki ng lente ng telescope para mapanood mo. 

Sir, kong flat ang earth, eh dapat nakikita mo ung mt everest dyan sa inyo kasi sobrang mataas ung bundok na un at sobrang laki pa?

No, hindi ganyan ang argument against a flat earth in relation to the second coming.

Kung flat earth hindi makikita kasi malayo, hindi rin makikita kahit round earth but gathering billions of people in one place, kasi malaking land area pa rin yon, sobrang layo pa rin.

Paanong makikita ng lahat ng bilyong katao kung napakalayo?

Iniisip mo kasi sir para lang singer sa concert ang makikita.  Hindi ganon yon.

The people will be looking at something as bright as lightning.  Siguradong makikita nila yon.  Christ will be visible from east to west like lighting that lights up the sky from one end to the other ---
 
27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (Mt. 24:27)

24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. (Lk. 17:24)
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2015 at 01:02 AM by barrister »

Offline bass_nut

  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,825
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 71
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #252 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 01:15 AM »
is this apt for this topic/thread ? ==>


Raised from the Dead by Praying Doctor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmZ5Ox7Uzns

Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #253 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 05:44 AM »
Di ba preacher si sir JT? 
Delikado ang ginagawa niya sir.  Biro mo, kakapiraso alam sa bibliya, lakas na ng loob mangaral?
========================================
O, kahit "Without the Bible" ang topic, pagbigyan natin ang bible proof niya:
If someone today says the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, do we contradict him, saying the sun neither rises or sets, because it's the earth that rotates?
Of course not.  It's an expression from the point of view of the observer on earth.
When the PAGASA gives us tomorrow's sunrise and sunset times, is it wrong for them to call it "sunrise" and "sunset" since the sun neither rises nor sets, and it's actually the earth that's rotating on its axis?
Of course not.  Meteorologists are using ordinary language from the point of view of the earth-bound observer as reference.
The bible also uses language from the point of view of the earth-bound observer.
When the bible says the sun rises, sets and hurries to the place where it rises, it is using poetic language from the reference point of a human living on earth.
When the bible says the sun stood still, it is speaking from the reference point of an earth-bound human.  It is not proof that the earth is flat.
Now this is Bible 101.  Bible written by man but inspired by the Holy Spirit. Not from man's perspective (or It's an expression from the point of view of the observer on earth.)  but from God as the Holy Spirit is the author.  So you think the Holy Spirit made a mistake here?   Absent ka ba nung tinuro ito sa Sunday school?  If yes, you are welcome in our children's class kasi dapat malaman mo.  Delikado kasi yung teacher nagtuturo ng calculus eh di naman alam arithmetic. You are building a 2nd floor without ground floor.
Luke 4: 5 says:
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. (KJV)
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. (NIV)

Why were the kingdoms shown by the devil "in an instant" or "in a moment of time"?  Ang bilis naman.  Bawal tumingin nang matagal?   ;D
Mabilis lang, kasi vision lang yon.  Hindi literal, physical, actual kingdoms ang pinakita. 
Bakit nasa mataas na bundok?  Kasi symbolic progression of temptation from lower to higher power and authority offered to the tempted.
First temptation, in the desert; second, from the highest point of the temple; third, from a very high mountain.  (Mt. 4:1-11)
Ganun? pag sinabing "in a moment of time o instant" eh vision agad, di ba pwede "able to see in one glance or one viewing"? .   How to be sure it's a vision? Don't you think we can distinguish if the verse is telling a true event or a metaphor or a parable or a dream or a vision?   Personally I'm asking  myself whats the point taking Jesus to a very high mountain just to see a vision, eh kahit nasa kubeta ka pwede naman makakita ng vision.
Ah, dahil nga sa idea na symbolic progression of temptation from lower to higher power and authority offered to the tempted. Well it seems good idea but its not directly stated sa bible so I take it as just your personal opinion/interpration which most likely you have googled or just saw in youtube.
Why would it not be possible with the globe?  Because if Christ comes down on a specific part of the globe, the people living on the other side of the globe will not be able to see Him?
There are less than 7 billion people on earth.  They all live on a round earth.
If God supernaturally gathers them all in one place so that all can see Christ coming down, how much space would they need to occupy?
If all 6.8 billion people on earth gathered in one place, all of them would fit in Texas, and their population density would be the same as in New York City.  At that comfortable population density, they would need only 666,265 square kilometers, which is in fact a bit smaller than the size of Texas.
Therefore, it is possible for all people to simultaneously see Christ coming down from heaven even if the earth is round.
Let's look at the number of all people who have ever been born, estimated at around 108 billion.  How much land area is needed to contain 108 billion people?
Manila has a population density of 42,857/sq. km.  108 billion people divided by a density of 42,857/sq.km. will give us a land area of 2.52 million sq.km., which is less than half the size of Brazil.
This means all of the people born on earth since the existence of the human race, if gathered in one place while maintaining the same population density as Manila, will fit in less than half of Brazil.
First and foremost, gathering all the people and putting them into one US state or wherever is nowhere written.  So even supernaturally eh di nya gagawin yun.  Ang sabi, Jesus coming in the clouds from the sky,  EVERY EYES WILL SEE, every tribes & nations will be shaken.
If what your saying is true, aba swerte nyo pala dyan dahil bibigyan kayo ng DIyos ng US Visa at airplane ticket going to Texas to see live yung coming ni Jesus.
Tapos may umepal pa na kahit natural eh pwede daw. Paano kaya, kasi kahit live tv broadcast di naman lahat ng tao sa mundo eh may TV. Ah baka mamimigay ang Diyos ng tv dun sa wala.  Sana LED na ....

Look I am not pushing for my religious beliefs nor this flat earth theory that's why I say "What if". I also ask to search and research and prove me wrong.  I want to see all views and love to hear everyone's opinion. But I would really appreciate if you will state your point or corrections politely as I assume we are all professionals here .

Offline dpogs

  • Trade Count: (+95)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,397
  • love and discipline
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 484
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #254 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 05:52 AM »
the title of the thread is proving God without the Bible... not proving the earth is flat...

now where is the proof that there is God?
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #255 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 05:53 AM »
Guys, please hear me out.

Yes I am a preacher but a preacher of the gospel. Not for this kind of topic. This is my hobby exploring, researching, stirring up the mind and challenging the norms. So I'm not as closed minded or even religious fanatic as you think. Yes,  it is indeed difficult to prove God without the bible (I didn't say I can do this that is why I'm trying to engage all of you hoping somebody here thinks out of the box) but I believe we shouldn't just give up until we explore all avenues.

Well kung mababa tingin nyo sa mga preacher, I am also Senior Business analysts at an Energy company here in NZ. I am a former vice president at Citibank Singapore with a Senior Analyst & Senior Project Manager role (for 14 yrs) for the entire Asia Pacific region managing 17 countries so rest assure I can analyze complexities. I am also from a reputable University graduated BS Mathematics from the College of Science so I know math, science and definitely physics as these are major subjects in my course. So I know momentum, inertia, gravity etc which is by the way also possible in a non-spinning flat earth model.

Now why did i brought up flat earth? I reckon this will elicit more response than the other part of the topic I am looking at. I'm keen to explore scientific proof that, 1st the Earth is not spinning, 2nd and if not spinning it may not be a globe, 3rd there is a dome or firmament above us (i know this is more difficult to prove).  Why? because if indeed there a possibility of any 2 of these 3 then there is a designer and creator. No BIG BANG and EVOLUTION, only CREATION as what the bible says.

Don't you find it interesting to challenge the science and history that we grew up with or baka naman gusto nyo na basta maniwala na lang tayo sa sinasabi ng mga (lying) scientist (o ni Barrister)?  I'm encouraging everyone to ask questions hoping we bring up even more intellectual views than just those learned in the textbooks.

I started my point with NASA admitting their limitations passing the Van Allen belt. So if they are not able to pass thru beyond 3600 miles above earth (whether man or machine), how the hell they know so much about all the universe and planets they havent really explored(maybe UrAnus they know)? All about the universe are unproven theories.


Offline dpogs

  • Trade Count: (+95)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,397
  • love and discipline
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 484
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #256 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 05:56 AM »
okay, given that creation is true and earth is flat, what is our proof that it is God the Creator not any alien capable of creating life?
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #257 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:01 AM »
okay, given that creation is true and earth is flat, what is our proof that it is God the Creator not any alien capable of creating life?

If indeed creation can be scientifically proven as well, whoever He is that created all these we should call Him/Them God.


Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #258 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:04 AM »
There is documentary titled "The Principle" where they interview all the leading scientist of our generations and challenges scientific theories. Its interesting but I'm not able to find a copy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Principle

« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:04 AM by JT »

Offline ninjababez®

  • Trade Count: (+77)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,373
  • I know what poverty is.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1040
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #259 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:08 AM »
There is documentary titled "The Principle" where they interview all the leading scientist of our generations and challenges scientific theories. Its interesting but I'm not able to find a copy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Principle


from your link bro
Quote
Controversy
Claims

Following the release of the film's trailer, narrator Kate Mulgrew said that she was misinformed as to the purpose of the documentary.[9][10] Max Tegmark claims that DeLano "cleverly tricked a whole bunch of us scientists into thinking that they were independent filmmakers doing an ordinary cosmology documentary, without mentioning anything about their hidden agenda."[11] George Ellis has said that "I was interviewed for it but they did not disclose this agenda, which of course is nonsense. I don't think it's worth responding to -- it just gives them publicity. To ignore is the best policy. But for the record, I totally disavow that silly agenda."[11] Michio Kaku said that the film was likely "clever editing" of his statements and bordered on "intellectual dishonesty"[4] and Lawrence Krauss said he had no recollection of being interviewed for the film and would have refused to be in it if he had known more about it.[12][13] Julian Barbour claims he never gave permission to be in the film.
[14]
ninjababez online ..

Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #260 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:16 AM »
Yes, there are claims and counter claims that is why it is interesting to see what are the arguments in this documentary.

Offline bumblebee

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,371
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #261 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:31 AM »
Don't you find it interesting to challenge the science and history that we grew up with or baka naman gusto nyo na basta maniwala na lang tayo sa sinasabi ng mga (lying) scientist (o ni Barrister)?  I'm encouraging everyone to ask questions hoping we bring up even more intellectual views than just those learned in the textbooks.

I'd love to, but if the Math adds up, what's there to challenge?

Offline dpogs

  • Trade Count: (+95)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,397
  • love and discipline
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 484
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #262 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 06:37 AM »
If indeed creation can be scientifically proven as well, whoever He is that created all these we should call Him/Them God.



Docelmo already said that, ID - Intelligent Designer. The question is, is it the God? Are you sure it is the God responsible of creation not any other ID and what is your proof that it is the God?

What is your proof that the Creator is the God? because atheists will just assume that it is not the God you're talking about. What is your proof that it is the God?


There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline ninjababez®

  • Trade Count: (+77)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,373
  • I know what poverty is.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1040
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #263 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 07:27 AM »
Yes, there are claims and counter claims that is why it is interesting to see what are the arguments in this documentary.
beg to disagree bro, they were dupped by the producers of the documentary. 
interesting to watch though, thanks for the share :)
ninjababez online ..

Offline Nelson de Leon

  • Trade Count: (+141)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,084
  • Let us lead by example
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 291
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #264 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 07:51 AM »
okay, given that creation is true and earth is flat, what is our proof that it is God the Creator not any alien capable of creating life?
If indeed creation can be scientifically proven as well, whoever He is that created all these we should call Him/Them God.

What if the God of the ancient people is really a God now reduced to alien form due to the discovery of the cosmos?

Offline dpogs

  • Trade Count: (+95)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,397
  • love and discipline
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 484
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #265 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 08:06 AM »
What if the God of the ancient people is really a God now reduced to alien form due to the discovery of the cosmos?

we who believe in God... siyempre we believe it is our God. pero ang mga atheist, di nila tatawagin na God yan mas pipiliin pa nilang tawagin na ID/Alien kesa sa "God". :):):)




We can only assume that there is "a creator or Intilligent Designer" and it is not yet proven na merong ngang "Creator"... only assume...  and to say that the assumed "creator" is the God of the Bible... ibang usapan ulit yan.
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2015 at 08:18 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline rulesmeister

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 341
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #266 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 09:24 AM »
Sir Barrister, kahit may lightning effect pa na kasing laki ng surface area ng moon, ndi pa rin makikita si christ because of the sheer vastness of the earth's surface area. Yes pwede makikita ung lightning effect pero si christ mismo? unless he'll return as a very huge size man as in kasing laki ng several huge mountains combined so as to cover a very vast area? The only possible way na makikita ng billions of people is to appear in all the lands (as in all places -bicol, jolo, north pole, south pole, us, etc).
Sir JT, Yes we need to question science, even reiligious "truths". But something like the roundness of the earth isnt true? If flat ang earth, then there will be no seasons (winter, summer, fall, spring). Wala dapat land areas na permanant ice like antartica, alaska, siberia etc kasi parati exposed sa araw since flat nga? kaya naging tropical ang pilipinas kasi we're located near the equator. Sa sobrang daming barko sa buong mundo dapat may headline na "23 Pinoy Seamen perish because their ship fell the to the edge of the earth"? sa digital age ngaun dapat may kumalat pics sa internet from errant astronauts showing the earth as a bluray disc shape?

Offline pTrader

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 487
  • Please be kind.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #267 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 09:55 AM »
we who believe in God... siyempre we believe it is our God. pero ang mga atheist, di nila tatawagin na God yan mas pipiliin pa nilang tawagin na ID/Alien kesa sa "God". :):):)




We can only assume that there is "a creator or Intilligent Designer" and it is not yet proven na merong ngang "Creator"... only assume...  and to say that the assumed "creator" is the God of the Bible... ibang usapan ulit yan.


Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

source: http://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism?

Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #268 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 10:01 AM »
beg to disagree bro, they were dupped by the producers of the documentary. 
interesting to watch though, thanks for the share :)

Duped or not, scientist suppose to tell what they know and what they believe. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvR7pMqAEso

Besides they signed somes forms and got paid as well so they are fully aware of this.


Offline JT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,326
  • GOD RULES!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE
« Reply #269 on: Sep 03, 2015 at 10:05 AM »
Sir JT, Yes we need to question science, even reiligious "truths". But something like the roundness of the earth isnt true? If flat ang earth, then there will be no seasons (winter, summer, fall, spring). Wala dapat land areas na permanant ice like antartica, alaska, siberia etc kasi parati exposed sa araw since flat nga? kaya naging tropical ang pilipinas kasi we're located near the equator. Sa sobrang daming barko sa buong mundo dapat may headline na "23 Pinoy Seamen perish because their ship fell the to the edge of the earth"? sa digital age ngaun dapat may kumalat pics sa internet from errant astronauts showing the earth as a bluray disc shape?

Apparently, flat earth folks can support 4 seasons as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmEJUQjH-n8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52_PdZlSq8 (illustrations)

Flat earth claims that Antartica is the border so nobody falls on the edge.

At this age of so many deceptions, we really need to closely scrutinize all the proofs being given by whoever or whatever organizations whether religious o scientific.