Topic: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE

[Nelson de Leon]

Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

source: http://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism?

Or atheism is the nonbelief of God.

[pTrader]

Or atheism is the nonbelief of God.

how can someone disbelief GOD who  according  to  them  "does not exist"?

[DVD_Freak]

how can someone disbelief GOD who  according  to  them  "does not exist"?

Pwede naman disbelief......a feeling that you do not or cannot believe or accept that something is true or real

Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real

[majoe]

Apparently, flat earth folks can support 4 seasons as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmEJUQjH-n8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52_PdZlSq8 (illustrations)

Flat earth claims that Antartica is the border so nobody falls on the edge.

At this age of so many deceptions, we really need to closely scrutinize all the proofs being given by whoever or whatever organizations whether religious o scientific.

ang dami ngang deceptions sir. pero ikaw mismo, na validate mo ba? na scrutinize mo ba ang mga proofs sa flat earth? it seems you already subscribed to this belief. 
dami kayang naglalabas sa you tube ng kung anu anong hoaxes at conspiracy theories para lang kumita sa ads. 
 
flat earth na nasa loob ng dome ang sun at moon?  hirap yata i digest.  ang lapit ng araw, pano mo ipapaliwanag ang eclipse, ang pag launch ng sattelite into orbit. binastos nito ang mga scientists na daang taon nag research at nag come up ng accurate at precise calculation. tapos babalik lang sa medieval ages?

[majoe]

Hindi puwedeng bumaba si Kristo nang paikot sa mundo sir.  Kokontrahin niyan ang Acts 1:9-12 ---
 
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
 
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
 
12 Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

According to verses 9 and 12, Christ was "taken up" from the Mount of Olives into heaven.  He did not encircle the earth as He was ascending, because He was taken up before their very eyes.  Hindi nawala sa paningin kasi umikot sa mundo; nawala sa paningin kasi nasa ulap na.
 
According to verse 11, Christ will "come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
 
Therefore, if Christ went up from Mount Olivet, He will return by descending to Mount Olivet.  Hindi puwedeng straight going up, but encircling going down.

di naman paikot sa mundo na 360 degrees ang ibig sabihin ko sir, hehe.  medyo ni relate ko lang kasi sa sun rising from the east at setting at the west kaya ko nasabing 12 hrs. anyway, never mind the 12hrs timing. pwede naman kasing mas mabilis ang speed ng descent.

yang verses na yan sir ang final descent.
pero yung makikita sya sa buong mundo, ito na yung descent ni Jesus na visible na from east to west. dapat talaga mag travel from east to west kung nasa earth's atmosphere na para makita ng lahat. di naman pwedeng steady lang at hayaang umikot ang mundo kundi babalik tayo sa airplane argument ni sir JT

[barrister]

   Hindi ko yata naintindihan sir... 

Anyway, sana pagtiyagaan mong i-browse ang reply ko kay sir rulesmeister below, baka sakaling may useful inputs akong naibigay:

 
=======================================
 

Sir Barrister, kahit may lightning effect pa na kasing laki ng surface area ng moon, ndi pa rin makikita si christ because of the sheer vastness of the earth's surface area. Yes pwede makikita ung lightning effect pero si christ mismo? unless he'll return as a very huge size man as in kasing laki ng several huge mountains combined so as to cover a very vast area? The only possible way na makikita ng billions of people is to appear in all the lands (as in all places -bicol, jolo, north pole, south pole, us, etc).

Ang problema kasi sir sa ganong interpretation, kokontrahin non ang sinasabi sa bible na ang second coming ay pareho rin ng ascension, meaning Christ will come down from heaven to Mount Olivet.

Round earth or flat earth believers, ganon din ang interpretation nila --- straight down from heaven to Mount Olivet.  Walang appearance in all lands before landing on earth. 

Kung pupunta Siya bawa't city, pag pumunta sa Manila, at sa Quiapo ang naging puwesto, pag nasa dulo ng Manila ka nakatayo, hindi mo ra rin makita sa layo.  E di ganon din ang problema.

Hindi kailangang makita si Kristo mismo na parang nakita natin ang singer sa concert venue. 

Kailangan lang na may idea ka ng scenario para magkaroon ng malinaw na comparison vs. isang ordinaryong tao na natanaw mo sa malayo:

24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. (Lk. 17:24)

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thess. 4:16)

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. (Mt. 16:27)

This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. (2 Thess 1:7)

So, ganito ang scenario:

- First, the announcement --- (a)  A loud command with the voice of the archangel, and (b) The trumpet call of God.  Doon pa lang sa mga tunog na yon, alam na ng lahat na si Kristo yon.   

- The sky will light up from east to west with the brightness of lightning.  Si Kristo na yon.  Hindi mo kailangang makita ang mukha na parang singer sa concert.  Sinigaw na ng archangel na si Kristo yon, kasabay ng trumpet call.  Mga supernatural na sigaw at trumpet call yon, kaya maririnig yon from east to west.

- Hindi si Kristo lang ang bababa nang walang kasama.  When Christ descends, He will be in bright, blazing fire like lightning, accompanied by powerful angels.  Makikita rin ng mga tao yon.  Ilan yung angels?   Hindi sinabi sa bible, but from the scenario of coming in great power and glory, we can assume that it's going to be a multitude of angels.

- The dead who are saved will resurrect.  Pag bumangon ang mga patay, lalong sigurado ang lahat na si Kristo yung bumaba.

Therefore, kung ganyan ang scenario ng second coming, hindi kailangang makita mo yung mukha para masabing lahat ng tao makikita ang pagbabalik ni Kristo.  Ang masasaksihan nila, ang malakas na sigaw ng arkanghel, tunog ng pakakak ng Diyos, pagbaba ng liwanag ng kidlat, liliwanag ang kalangitan from east to west, kasama ang maraming mga anghel in power and glory.

Ang controversy na lang, paano raw makikita ng mga tao na nasa opposite side of the earth if the earth is a globe.  Ang sagot ng mga mga flat-earth, makikita raw, kasi ang mundo ay flat, hindi sphere.  Ang sagot ng mga round-earth, iipunin ng Diyos ang lahat ng tao sa isang lugar, kaya walang tao sa opposite side of the globe.

Kabisado ko na kasi ang mga argumento diyan, kaya may idea na ako kung ano ang susunod.  Ang susunod na tanong, paanong nagkasya ang lahat ng tao sa isang lugar.  Kaya tinuloy ko na ang paliwanag, kasya lahat ng tao sa isang lugar. 

Pag bumaba sa Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, may supernatural na sigaw, trumpet, liwanag ng kalangitan, may kasamang maraming anghel. Kita yan ng mga taong inipon sa land area fronting Jerusalem like Jordan, Syria, Iran, Saudi, Yemen, Oman, etc.

Saudi and Iran lang, 2.5 million sq. km. na agad.  All people who were ever born since the beginning of the human race (108 billion), kasya diyan with the same population density as Manila.

[lithium_deuteride]

Now why did i brought up flat earth? I reckon this will elicit more response than the other part of the topic I am looking at. I'm keen to explore scientific proof that, 1st the Earth is not spinning, 2nd and if not spinning it may not be a globe, 3rd there is a dome or firmament above us (i know this is more difficult to prove).  Why? because if indeed there a possibility of any 2 of these 3 then there is a designer and creator. No BIG BANG and EVOLUTION, only CREATION as what the bible says.

Why do you think that people need to believe "far out" (I'm being polite here ) theories like the earth doesn't spin, is flat, is domed, etc. to believe that there is a designer?  Our world is incredible as it is.  Just look at your own body - the design of which is far beyond the capability of mere mortals.  That's proof that there is a designer right there. 

[JT]

ang dami ngang deceptions sir. pero ikaw mismo, na validate mo ba? na scrutinize mo ba ang mga proofs sa flat earth? it seems you already subscribed to this belief. 
dami kayang naglalabas sa you tube ng kung anu anong hoaxes at conspiracy theories para lang kumita sa ads. 
 
flat earth na nasa loob ng dome ang sun at moon?  hirap yata i digest.  ang lapit ng araw, pano mo ipapaliwanag ang eclipse, ang pag launch ng sattelite into orbit. binastos nito ang mga scientists na daang taon nag research at nag come up ng accurate at precise calculation. tapos babalik lang sa medieval ages?

I completely understand yung mga reactions kasi very controversial sya talaga.  Same with me when I first heard about it.  So I've read many articles not just youtube. Ancient people believe that earth doesnt spin and it is flat. But we really think we are far more smarter them yet  experts still cant fully comprehend how the Great Pyramid of Giza was built.

I never doubted scientist before but if only NASA is able to explain clearly how did they manage to pass thru the very radioactive Van Allen belt and in the upper  thermosphere which temperature is about 500° C (932° F) to 2,000° C (3,632° F) or higher  without getting burned.  Then I will believe again that the pictures and videos taken from 10,000 miles & above from earth and their theories are legit.

http://scied.ucar.edu/shortcontent/thermosphere-overview

Otherwise, I'm open to other theories in search for the truth.  But one thing for sure, I'm not completely subscribed o sold-out sa flat-earth theory.  But it is gaining support that's why many experiments and  documentaries are now being produced.  I'm still hoping NASA will come up with something that will regain the trust.  Otherwise its not just daang taong research but daang taong lies.

[JT]

Why do you think that people need to believe "far out" (I'm being polite here ) theories like the earth doesn't spin, is flat, is domed, etc. to believe that there is a designer?  Our world is incredible as it is.  Just look at your own body - the design of which is far beyond the capability of mere mortals.  That's proof that there is a designer right there. 

No worries, its a good point.  Atheist and Agnostics are growing in numbers.  Just looking at human's body or the world won't be that convincing to them anymore.   Why? Evolution.

[lithium_deuteride]

I started my point with NASA admitting their limitations passing the Van Allen belt. So if they are not able to pass thru beyond 3600 miles above earth (whether man or machine), how the hell they know so much about all the universe and planets they havent really explored(maybe UrAnus they know)? All about the universe are unproven theories.

Care to elaborate?  Scientists use radio telescopes and a few optical ones (like Hubble) to explore far beyond our own galaxy, let alone beyond our solar system or much less, the Van Allen Belt. You think the Hubble pictures of far away nebulas are fake?  How about pictures of Shoemaker Levy impacting Jupiter?  Fake as well?

We've gone through the Van Allen belt plenty of times or do you think the Apollo moon landings are not real?  How about the probes to the planets?  The Vikings and the Voyagers among many. Haven't you seen pictures of that volcanic eruption in Io? How about the recent comet intercept and the flyby of Pluto?  Scientists lying to the gullible world populace would you say?

[dpogs]

The proof that the earth is sphere is far more stronger than all proofs of evolution. If they believe evolution, how much more to believe that the earth is sphere.

@ barrister: second coming follow by battle of armageddon?

[dpogs]

Care to elaborate?  Scientists use radio telescopes and a few optical ones (like Hubble) to explore far beyond our own galaxy, let alone beyond our solar system or much less, the Van Allen Belt. You think the Hubble pictures of far away nebulas are fake?  How about pictures of Shoemaker Levy impacting Jupiter?  Fake as well?

We've gone through the Van Allen belt plenty of times or do you think the Apollo moon landings are not real?  How about the probes to the planets?  The Vikings and the Voyagers among many. Haven't you seen pictures of that volcanic eruption in Io? How about the recent comet intercept and the flyby of Pluto?  Scientists lying to the gullible world population would you say?

Many christian scientist since magellan dare not speak against this hoax? Parang imposible naman na hindi nadiscover ng mga christian scientist noon na flat na ang earth.

[majoe]

@ barrister: second coming follow by battle of armageddon?

medyo na confuse din ako.  bubuhayin na ba ang lahat at titipunin? di ba unang bubuhayin ang mga elect at para kay Kristo tapos battle?

[lithium_deuteride]

No worries, its a good point.  Atheist and Agnostics are growing in numbers.  Just looking at human's body or the world won't be that convincing to them anymore.   Why? Evolution.

I bet you a hundred bucks that if you can't convince people that there is a Creator using the human body as an example, you won't convince them one bit by telling them that the earth doesn't spin and that it's in fact flat.

[dpogs]

Regarding sa flat earth, gaano kahaba ang costLine ng antartica?

[barrister]

@ barrister: second coming follow by battle of armageddon?

Yes.

 

medyo na confuse din ako.  bubuhayin na ba ang lahat at titipunin? di ba unang bubuhayin ang mga elect at para kay Kristo tapos battle?

Tama.  Hindi lahat mabubuhay.

Dalawang grupo kasi ang resurrection --- first resurrection and second resurrection.

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thess. 4:16)

Kaya nga ang sabi, the dead in Christ will rise first.   Bakit "rise first"?   Kasi merong "rise second," kasi dalawa ang grupo ng resurrection.  First, the dead in Christ, then all the rest.

They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)

Una, first resurrection, then 1,000 years of peace.  After the millennium, the rest of the dead come to life --- the second resurrection.

Those who will be part of the first resurrection will not die again (physical death #1; no more death #2). 

Those who will be part of the second resurrection will die again (physical death #1; will have death #2).  This is called the "second death" in Revelation:

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14-15)
 

=======================================


Baka magulo yung sinasabi kong 108 billion na all people who were ever born, na ang sabi ko ay kasya lahat sa isang lugar para makita ang second coming.

No, hindi lahat ng patay ay mabubuhay sa first resurrection.  Ginamit ko lang ang 108 billion as a conservative estimate, bearing in mind that the population will surely be greater in the future, when the second coming happens.

Kung ngayon na ang second coming, hindi 101 billion ang patay na mabubuhay (108 billion total born, minus 7 billion still alive).  Siyempre mas konti doon ang kasama sa first resurrection.

Pero hindi naman ngayon ang second coming.  Let's say 2,000 years into the future pa yon.  By that time, ano na ang headcount of all people who ever lived?  Siyempre mas malaki na sa 108 billion, pero hindi natin alam kung ilan.  Ilan doon ang kasama sa first resurrection, ilan ang sa second resurrection?  Hindi na naman natin alam kung ilan.

Kaya para maging very conservative ang estimates, lakihan na natin ang allowance.  Gawin na nating 108 billon ang kasama sa first resurrection.  Sobra-sobrang allowance na yan.  Kaya pag nag-estimate ako ng land area na pagkakasyahan ng 108 billion people, sobra-sobra rin ang estimated land area na yon.

[pTrader]

Yes.

 
Tama.  Hindi lahat mabubuhay.

Dalawang grupo kasi ang resurrection --- first resurrection and second resurrection.

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thess. 4:16)

Kaya nga ang sabi, the dead in Christ will rise first.   Bakit "rise first"?   Kasi merong "rise second," kasi dalawa ang grupo ng resurrection.  First, the dead in Christ, then all the rest.

They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)

Una, first resurrection, then 1,000 years of peace.  After the millennium, the rest of the dead come to life --- the second resurrection.

Those who will be part of the first resurrection will not die again (physical death #1; no more death #2). 

Those who will be part of the second resurrection will die again (physical death #1; will have death #2).  This is called the "second death" in Revelation:

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14-15)
 

=======================================


Baka magulo yung sinasabi kong 108 billion na all people who were ever born, na ang sabi ko ay kasya lahat sa isang lugar para makita ang second coming.

No, hindi lahat ng patay ay mabubuhay sa first resurrection.  Ginamit ko lang ang 108 billion as a conservative estimate, bearing in mind that the population will surely be greater in the future, when the second coming happens.

Kung ngayon na ang second coming, hindi 101 billion ang patay na mabubuhay (108 billion total born, minus 7 billion still alive).  Siyempre mas konti doon ang kasama sa first resurrection.

Pero hindi naman ngayon ang second coming.  Let's say 2,000 years into the future pa yon.  By that time, ano na ang headcount of all people who ever lived?  Siyempre mas malaki na sa 108 billion, pero hindi natin alam kung ilan.  Ilan doon ang kasama sa first resurrection, ilan ang sa second resurrection?  Hindi na naman natin alam kung ilan.

Kaya para maging very conservative ang estimates, lakihan na natin ang allowance.  Gawin na nating 108 billon ang kasama sa first resurrection.  Sobra-sobrang allowance na yan.  Kaya pag nag-estimate ako ng land area na pagkakasyahan ng 108 billion people, sobra-sobra rin ang estimated land area na yon.

hmmm... pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation,  post tribulation, pre-millennial, post millennial ?

[dpogs]

Possible na makikita ng lahat kasi aabangan ng tao, alam na nila na may bababang alien, kaya full force lahat ng tao sasalubungin si ang alien (Jesus) para makipaglaban, thus battle of armagesdon :-)

[pTrader]

Possible na makikita ng lahat kasi aabangan ng tao, alam na nila na may bababang alien, kaya full force lahat ng tao sasalubungin si ang alien (Jesus) para makipaglaban, thus battle of armagesdon :-)

Una, first resurrection, then 1,000 years of peace.  After the millennium, the rest of the dead come to life --- the second resurrection.

hmmmmmmm.......

[barrister]

Possible na makikita ng lahat kasi aabangan ng tao, alam na nila na may bababang alien, kaya full force lahat ng tao sasalubungin si ang alien (Jesus) para makipaglaban, thus battle of armagesdon :-)

Ang problema ko lang sa theory na yan, parang kontra sa Matthew 24.  Ang sinasabi mo kasi, alam ng lahat ng mga tao na malapit na ang second coming.  Pero sa Matthew 24, marami ring tao na hindi nakakaalam, at magugulat na lang.

Sa Revelation, ang scenario, may tribulation, kasabay ng battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. 

Yung mga good, hinihintay ang second coming, para magkaroon ng final battle.

Yung mga evil, kakampi ng mga beasts sa Revelation, puwedeng alam din na malapit na ang second coming. Pero meron pa ring grupo ng mga evil na hindi alam na malapit na pala ang second coming.

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (Mt. 24:37-39)

Para matupad yan, dapat marami ring hindi alam na babalik na pala si Kristo.  Magugulat na lang sila kasi hindi nila pinansin ang prophecy, tuloy-tuloy pa rin ang kasamaan sa buhay, similar to the time of Noah.

[bumblebee]

Possible na makikita ng lahat kasi aabangan ng tao, alam na nila na may bababang alien, kaya full force lahat ng tao sasalubungin si ang alien (Jesus) para makipaglaban, thus battle of armagesdon :-)

Will the battle even happen? Hindi ba alam ni satan na wala sila Laban?

[pTrader]

Ang problema ko lang sa theory na yan, parang kontra sa Matthew 24.  Ang sinasabi mo kasi, alam ng lahat ng mga tao na malapit na ang second coming.  Pero sa Matthew 24, marami ring tao na hindi nakakaalam, at magugulat na lang.

Sa Revelation, ang scenario, may tribulation, kasabay ng battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. 

Yung mga good, hinihintay ang second coming, para magkaroon ng final battle.

Yung mga evil, kakampi ng mga beasts sa Revelation, puwedeng alam din na malapit na ang second coming. Pero meron pa ring grupo ng mga evil na hindi alam na malapit na pala ang second coming.

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (Mt. 24:37-39)

Para matupad yan, dapat marami ring hindi alam na babalik na pala si Kristo.  Magugulat na lang sila kasi hindi nila pinansin ang prophecy, tuloy-tuloy pa rin ang kasamaan sa buhay, similar to the time of Noah.

pwedeng umepal muna anong forms  ng escatholgy yung pinag-uusapan niyo?

[panzimus]

Gusto ko pumunta sa Antartica and kapain ang base ng dome.

[barrister]

pwedeng umepal muna anong forms  ng escatholgy yung pinag-uusapan niyo?

Hindi ko rin alam kung anong forms yon sir.

Google lang naman ang ginagawa ko.  Pag agree ako, I believe it, pag hindi ako agree, I reject it.

Nag google ako ng mga pre/post tribulation/millennial, tinamad na ako, kasi imbis na luminaw, lalong lumabo.

Bigyan mo na lang kami ng short timeline ng major events, sabihin namin kung agree o disagree kami.

Lumayo lang nang konti ang topic, nag-umpisa lang yan sa flat earth, napunta sa second coming, hindi raw puwedeng round earth, kasi ang biblical prophecy, lahat ng tao makikita ang second coming.

Marami lang siguro talagang interesado sa Revelation.  Malayo pa ako sa completion, siguro less than 1/2 pa lang ang naintindihan ko. Kailangan mo kasi ng cross reference sa Matthew and Daniel, plus other Old Testament books.

[dpogs]

Well the main purpose of revelation i believe for me, is to remind usl to always be prepared because the coming of the Lord is near and we dont know when that is why we need to be ready anytime.



@ barrister: isa sa sign ng coming of Jesus is the dead in Christ will rise fromr the grave and those who still alive will be caught up to heaven or what we called the rapture eto wala talaga makakaalam kung kelan.

Ang mga naiwan at may alam sa Bible may idea na sila that the coming of christ will be the next. but those unbelievers will not believe and will most probably tag the event as due to alien abduction thus they will prepare. So basically they dont know that it is Jesus Christ, what they know is some kkind of an alien. :-)

[barrister]

Hindi ako naniniwala sa rapture sir.

Sa issue na yan, malayo na naman ang beliefs natin.

[dpogs]

Ah sige sige pagusapan na lang natin sa kabilang thread :-) :-)  napalayo na tayo sa title ng thread, proving God without the Bible. :-) :-)

Im still waiting on how the theory of flat earth will gonna prove that there is God eh samantalang the human body itself speaks of far more superior intilligent designer which i believe is God according to the Bible.

[rulesmeister]

Kalimutan na naten na flat ang earth, nonsense talaga. based dun sa video, hindi barko gagamitin mo to circumnavigate the earth but rather a snow mobile. Pwede ka nga maglakad sa ice to circumnavigate the world kasi the entire perimeter of the world is surrounded by a continuous ice sheet. Pagnadulas ka sa yelo mahuhulog ka sa dun edge ng earth. Pag nag drill ka ng sobrang lalim like ung gold mine tunnel sa south africa, tatagos sa kabilang side ung tunnel and you could see through the earth (na parang butas sa dvd). Kalokohan...

[JT]

Nag google ako ng mga pre/post tribulation/millennial, tinamad na ako, kasi imbis na luminaw, lalong lumabo.

Sir, please try watching this and hope you pass your comments ... 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0f6_epwixV5fGUp87rwkvafcI8gwS9Im

dpogs,
This might interest you. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCED9C361662866BD

[JT]

Kalimutan na naten na flat ang earth, nonsense talaga. based dun sa video, hindi barko gagamitin mo to circumnavigate the earth but rather a snow mobile. Pwede ka nga maglakad sa ice to circumnavigate the world kasi the entire perimeter of the world is surrounded by a continuous ice sheet. Pagnadulas ka sa yelo mahuhulog ka sa dun edge ng earth. Pag nag drill ka ng sobrang lalim like ung gold mine tunnel sa south africa, tatagos sa kabilang side ung tunnel and you could see through the earth (na parang butas sa dvd). Kalokohan...

While it is absurd, it is not completely nonsense.  Scientist tried going over the edge but stopped by a wide sheet of ice the size of america, more than 120 feet high and a very harsh weather. They tried drilling but the maximum they can reach is 12,000 feet.  And above, the Van Allen belt and Thermosphere.  You see there are boundaries that man doesn't have the ability to breach even with the latest technology.  Somebody contained us in this environment. I reckon from your reasoning that you are not that smart bulb. Go research instead of just using your intellect which was already pre-programmed.

But while flat-earth maybe the truth, I know it won't be accepted anymore because the whole education system is already under the control of the elite.  The indocrination has already been in place long time ago since birth and maybe too late.

Before the end of this year, many significant events are predicted.  The great world economic collapse which leads to ONE WORLD CURRENCY and financial market system.  And the contact (even possible war) with aliens,  the coming of the alien God (matutuwa si dpogs dito) which is the agenda for project bluebeam, Jade Helm, HAARP, Chemtrails,  CERN, and Vatican's lucifer telescope paving the way for ONE WORLD RELIGION. All under the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just believing everything the bible says.