Topic: 2a3 Suggestions?

[tetablanco]

I'm leaving for Hong Kong next month and plan to buy a pair of matched 2a3s for my SET amp.  I currently have a matched pair of Sovteks.  While they have superb mids and highs, I feel that they are a bit lacking in bass output (though I've only racked up about 100+ hours of break-in time for my 12" CF Audio Nirvanas). I'd prefer to buy something reasonably priced and am choosing between the Shuguang 2a3c, the TJ Full Music 2a3/n, Electro Harmonix Gold 2a3, etc.  Both the JJ 2a3-40n and Shuguang Treasure 2a3 are rather pricey.  Any suggestions?  My preferred music includes all genres.  Thanks!   

[Nelson de Leon]

I'm leaving for Hong Kong next month and plan to buy a pair of matched 2a3s for my SET amp.  I currently have a matched pair of Sovteks.  While they have superb mids and highs, I feel that they are a bit lacking in bass output (though I've only racked up about 100+ hours of break-in time for my 12" CF Audio Nirvanas). I'd prefer to buy something reasonably priced and am choosing between the Shuguang 2a3c, the TJ Full Music 2a3/n, Electro Harmonix Gold 2a3, etc.  Both the JJ 2a3-40n and Shuguang Treasure 2a3 are rather pricey.  Any suggestions?  My preferred music includes all genres.  Thanks!   

Masmaganda sir ang Sovtek vs Shiguang. I think your problem with bass output is the power of your amp. Mahina kasi sir talaga ang 2A3 current. I'm a 2A3 owner before. There is so little you can do with the bass in tube rolling kaya dati nag-bi-amp ako sa aking 2way speakers. 97db pa sir ang speakers ko. pero sobrang sweet ang lush ng 2A3 sa midlows to highs. Magkaroon man ng improvement sa lows, it might not satisfy you.

[Superman]

Atty. Teta, I recommend PSVane 2A3 tubes. May I ask what are the driver tubes of your power amp? 6SN7, 6SL7?? May also have an effect if you change driver tubes. Enjoy HKG! Will SMS you. Regards!

[camoteque]

Sorry to disagree with Sir Nelson that it's the amp. I use to run my horn speakers passively with my  SE 2A3 amp. Also, my friend lin gomez' 3 way horn speakers are currently driven by a 45/2A3 convertible SET amp. It is a matter of matching with the right speakers. Let the AN break-in first. Others have sweared that AN will  do bass when broken-in.

[CoolTOYZPH]

Based on personal experience:
Electro Harmonix Gold 2a3 - lacks the tube warmth. Sounds Solid state
Shuguang 2a3c: has less bass than the sovteks.
PSVane 2A3: very good bass, lacks the air, I find it dry.

The modern production 2A3 I enjoyed most with music coming out of the walls was Sofia 2a3 Mesh.
Still it does not match the Western Electric 2A3.

I think I still have my Sofia if you want to try before making a final purchase.

[tony]

based on my two 2A3 amp builds for Larry, the Shuguang 2A3's biased
exactly the same at 250 volts plate and 60mA cathode current, with the cathode bias resistors....
myself was pleasantly surprised how closely they matched, up to several decimal points...
to be honest, i never epected such precision from a mere china made tube...

btw, it is not the tubes per se, a lot was riding on the design of the
power supply and the output transformers, they made the difference
as far as i can tell...

so if you like Larry's amp, a matched pair Shuguangs are the go to tubes.
those amps were tailor made for the Shuguans...

btw, attorney Teta, were you able to listen to Larry's other amp
that used the the Shuguangs? if you have not already, i strongly suggest
that you listen to it...

[tony]

Sorry to disagree with Sir Nelson that it's the amp. I use to run my horn speakers passively with my  SE 2A3 amp. Also, my friend lin gomez' 3 way horn speakers are currently driven by a 45/2A3 convertible SET amp. It is a matter of matching with the right speakers. Let the AN break-in first. Others have sweared that AN will  do bass when broken-in.

yes Larry, your 2A3's have more than enough irons in the OPT to deliver bass,
i myself was surprised when i first tested your amp on my 90db FS....
single ended amps are all about irons and the quality of iron that you put into it..

[Nelson de Leon]

Sorry to disagree with Sir Nelson that it's the amp. I use to run my horn speakers passively with my  SE 2A3 amp. Also, my friend lin gomez' 3 way horn speakers are currently driven by a 45/2A3 convertible SET amp. It is a matter of matching with the right speakers. Let the AN break-in first. Others have sweared that AN will  do bass when broken-in.

It's ok sir. Baka masmalakas lang ako siguro makinig. Haha! In truth medjo nasa 80db ata ako makinig kaya siguro ako nabitin. I kinda was expecting na ganun din ang TS.

[CoolTOYZPH]

so if you like Larry's amp, a matched pair Shuguangs are the go to tubes.
those amps were tailor made for the Shuguans...

Master Tony please educate us newbies. You mean tube rolling is not recommended because AMPS are designed for specific tube brands?

[tetablanco]

Thanks for all the posts and feedback, guys. I'm really new to tube audio and might just go with Tony who built the amp I got from Larry. I still have a few weeks before my Hong Kong trip so I'm hoping that my speakers break in by then.
 

[tony]

Master Tony please educate us newbies. You mean tube rolling is not recommended because AMPS are designed for specific tube brands?

no....................
so happened that for the two units of 2A3 amps i did for Larry,
both of them had the Shuguangs biased exactly alike, something i never imagined
possible until i tried it.....i hit the tube's sweet spot without really trying...
i designed the psu with that goal in mind and i nailed it...

now what i am saying is, i can not say the same for other brand tubes,
since the same tube type from different manufacturers are made differently
using different materials and manufacturing tolerances, and so biases differently..

so i can only comment on the Shuguangs since i have used them...
btw, triodes are very easy to figure out....

of course no one can stop you if you want to roll tubes...

[tony]

Thanks for all the posts and feedback, guys. I'm really new to tube audio and might just go with Tony who built the amp I got from Larry. I still have a few weeks before my Hong Kong trip so I'm hoping that my speakers break in by then.
 

VT4C is a well known supplier from Hong kong....http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?cat_id=24&group_id=5&hit_cat=

matched pair is recommended but as long as they bias close to each other, then that will be fine...
and if only you can bring the amp to hong kong and test the tube right at there and then,
you need to see 250 volts plate, and  45volt at the cathodes...

[tony]

one thing newbies have to realize is that not all tube amps using
the same tube types are made the same way....
even the  two  units i made for Lrry are not  exactly the same,
i seldom do any amp the same way each time.....
all of  my amps are unique in some ways...
i can think at least ten designs for the 2A3, and you can  not  have them all...

so different amps will sound differently with different tubes...
this is the nature of the "beast"....this is why tube rolling works....
it is simply not possible to taste them all, unless  of course you
are a megarich guy....

and i am proud to say, i have something that your money can never buy....

[tetablanco]

VT4C is a well known supplier from Hong kong....http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?cat_id=24&group_id=5&hit_cat=

matched pair is recommended but as long as they bias close to each other, then that will be fine...
and if only you can bring the amp to hong kong and test the tube right at there and then,
you need to see 250 volts plate, and  45volt at the cathodes...

Thanks again, Tony.  Here is the shop I intend to go to in Hong Kong and, yes, I will buy matched pairs like what I did for my Sovteks: http://www.analogmetric.com/category.php?id=10

[tony]

Thanks again, Tony.  Here is the shop I intend to go to in Hong Kong and, yes, I will buy matched pairs like what I did for my Sovteks: http://www.analogmetric.com/category.php?id=10

that should work.....

[remington]

I'm leaving for Hong Kong next month and plan to buy a pair of matched 2a3s for my SET amp.  I currently have a matched pair of Sovteks.  While they have superb mids and highs, I feel that they are a bit lacking in bass output (though I've only racked up about 100+ hours of break-in time for my 12" CF Audio Nirvanas). I'd prefer to buy something reasonably priced and am choosing between the Shuguang 2a3c, the TJ Full Music 2a3/n, Electro Harmonix Gold 2a3, etc.  Both the JJ 2a3-40n and Shuguang Treasure 2a3 are rather pricey.  Any suggestions?  My preferred music includes all genres.  Thanks!   

matinding patience ang kailangan nyo sa audio nirvana sir teta pag na fully break in yan pretty sure mapapangiti ka habang pinapakinggan mo yan and paganda sya ng paganda habang tumatagal, out of no where magugulat ka nalang biglang mag iiba SQ nyan and yun na magiging umpisa ng extended listening hours nyo kasi ang hirap nya hiwalayan. Yung 12" ko up to now na running 8 months na, sa pandinig ko e nag be-break in pa kasi may mga maliliit na details pang nadadagdag sa mga test tracks ko everytime I listen. Yung 2A3 nyo sir lalabas bass at ganda nyan pag break in na AN nyo. Patience lang katapat nyan, ang mainip talo hehehe.

[J-M]

^ Agree. Same experience with my 8inch CF. I almost gave up on them due to wanting more lows, then after some time and out of nowhere I was like "wtf, are these the same speakers? Wow!"

Give 'em time and I'm sure you'll be smiling and laughing by yourself while sound tripping.

[tetablanco]

I guess I should be more patient, especially since it's been only 10 days. I've been running my speakers 24/7. Upon Tony's suggestion, I'm getting a matched pair of Shuguang 2a3c tubes soon since the amp I got from Larry (and which Tony designed and built) was specifically matched for these tubes. Thanks again for the invaluable inputs, guys.

[tony]

attorney Teta,  i will support that amp with free servicing for as long as i am around.... 
you can bring that amp to for checkup once you have the new tubes in place...
i would suggest that you get a new pair of D3a tubes as spares....
that tube is used aggressively in that amp, that is why it sounded good
and i am not sure how long they will last, better to have them on hand na....

[tetablanco]

attorney Teta,  i will support that amp with free servicing for as long as i am around.... 
you can bring that amp to for checkup once you have the new tubes in place...
i would suggest that you get a new pair of D3a tubes as spares....
that tube is used aggressively in that amp, that is why it sounded good
and i am not sure how long they will last, better to have them on hand na....

Will do, Sir.

[AAudio]

have a 2a3 amp paired with triangle titus speakers....happy so far 

[tony]

have a 2a3 amp paired with triangle titus speakers....happy so far 

if you are happy, then i am happy for you....

[tony]

those who find the cost of 2A3's too steep....
there is a cheaper alternative, the EL36, 6CM5, 25E5....
i saw a big lot of 25E5 over at Deeco, selling for 400 pesos per tube...
i have the russian 6P13, which is the same tube...

no, this is not a drop in replacement, it uses octal sockets...
what is more, it is a indirectly heated tube...

but trode curves look very similar to a 2A3, looking at the triode plate curves,
you might think that it is the same tube.....
http://www.diyparadiso.com/proj/amps/se/845sk%20light%20se/el36pentode_as_triode_v2.pdf
a 2A# like operating point was given....nice work here by Tom Schlangen....

[AAudio]

if you are happy, then i am happy for you....

Thanks Sir

Sent you a pm Sir Tony

[tony]

pm replied....

[tetablanco]

pm replied....

Hi Sir Tony,

Do you know where I can get a pair of Ken Rad 12SN7 tubes and a pair of RCA 12SX7 tubes? 

Thanks,

Teta

[tony]

Hi Sir Tony,

Do you know where I can get a pair of Ken Rad 12SN7 tubes and a pair of RCA 12SX7 tubes? 

Thanks,

Teta

no idea, sa online sellers from the states malamang meron...

[tetablanco]

Hi Sir Tony,

Do you know where I can get a pair of Ken Rad 12SN7 tubes and a pair of RCA 12SX7 tubes? 

Thanks,

Teta

no idea, sa online sellers from the states malamang meron...

Been checking online but it's hit-or-miss on quality. Where did you get the Ken Rad 12sn7 that came with the preamp I got from you? I prefer that one to the tubes I replaced it with when my cheap AVR fried my old tubes.

[tony]

Been checking online but it's hit-or-miss on quality. Where did you get the Ken Rad 12sn7 that came with the preamp I got from you? I prefer that one to the tubes I replaced it with when my cheap AVR fried my old tubes.

i still have a pair with me if you need them...tubes came fron Gerry Sta Maria, our regular tube pusher...