Author Topic: Monitor Audio Speakers (Read 470554 times)

Conan · « **Reply #3390 on:** Jun 12, 2011 at 10:10 PM »

Quote from: karzai on Jun 12, 2011 at 09:31 PM

Honestly, I do not really know what's the principle behind integrated amps. I think i need some education on this area.

I've only been recently exposed to integrated or stereo amps recently. I've always had AV Receivers. I didn't realize what I was missing until I disposed a pair of old JBL Studio series speakers that were tested with a stereo tube amp. The sound that was produced by my old speakers blew me away! I almost took my speakers back home. I guess the complexities of an AV Receiver "dilutes" the sound when listening in stereo. Integrated amps have a much more simple design that "release" the potential of your speakers. Maybe Stagea could state this better.

Stagea · « **Reply #3391 on:** Jun 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM »

Quote from: Conan on Jun 12, 2011 at 10:10 PM

I've only been recently exposed to integrated or stereo amps recently. I've always had AV Receivers. I didn't realize what I was missing until I disposed a pair of old JBL Studio series speakers that were tested with a stereo tube amp. The sound that was produced by my old speakers blew me away! I almost took my speakers back home. I guess the complexities of an AV Receiver "dilutes" the sound when listening in stereo. Integrated amps have a much more simple design that "release" the potential of your speakers. Maybe Stagea could state this better.

Most AV receivers have inferior preamp and power amp sections because of cost constraints. The makers had to build something that has many preamp/power-amp channels, video switching/processing/conversion, audio switching/processing/conversion, portable device connectivity, network capability, etc. when building an AVR for essentially the same money as a plain stereo amp with nothing on it. Building to meet that low cost requirement for something so complex means compromising many things along the way, to get the product to the market (not to mention that half of the money that we're paying already goes to marketing and mark-ups).

When you look at the insides of most AVRs (except high-end models), they look positively anemic beside a typical music amp of the same rating. The power amp section is typically built with very little headroom in terms of current capacity, so distortion can become a constant problem with demanding speakers (or listeners). 5 or more channels sharing a small transformer also means that the amp might output 100W at one time, yet only output 20w on another time for the same input signal level (when the other channels are simultaneously firing). This amount of variability is generally unacceptable in the hi-fi world.

On top of this, having so many components within the same cabinet and having marginal shielding between them + sharing the power supply (both to cut costs), may take its toll on signal integrity. Cross-talk and inter-modulation issues are things you might be able to largely escape by going the dedicated audio route.

On the other hand, the Marantz SR 7002 still has every right to sound decent (within reasonable bounds). I think Karzai should maximize his no-cost tweaking options first, to see if that would be sufficient for his needs.

karzai · « **Reply #3392 on:** Jun 12, 2011 at 11:29 PM »

Quote from: Stagea on Jun 12, 2011 at 03:34 AM

What is your main issue with the sound? It's hard to tell without actually hearing the system,
but a description of the problem will help us tremendously.

To throw some depth in the presentation, I suggest pulling the speakers away from the wall (2' away or more).
You didn't indicate your listening position, but it should again be away from walls (ideally).

Your room's boundaries (floor, walls and ceiling) also seem a bit lively (especially if you don't have
anything on them), which might smear the mids and highs a bit. On top of that, interaction with your
square room may make the sound a bit boomy (something that I also contend with).

As for the Equalizer, EQing isn't necessarily bad. It can actually help remedy issues
in a less than perfect installation or component match. Your AVR has 1-octave graphic EQ bands covering
most of the audible range. This should be simple enough to be tunable by ear, if you know what
you're looking for.

Lastly, what player are you using for those WAV and FLAC files? How is it hooked up?

It sounds like, when I close my eyes, I don't hear the music as though the real musicians were there. It still
feels like the sound is coming from the speakers although the sound image seems to originate from the center.

My listening position is a third of the distance between the two walls away from the speakers, just about 2'
from the rear wall. My TV is flushed on the wall so I could not bring the speakers further front as they are quite
deep. From MA Manual's recommended speaker placement, I already had them placed about 7" from the wall.

Yes, I believe the highs and the mids are a little bit smeared in the sense that I do not find them as
detailed as I'd hoped they would be and not up to what the "raving" reviews were saying. Also, it seems
that the highs and mids are "drowned" in bass. When I try to crank up the volume to reveal more of them,
the bass also just gets louder to the point that it begins to hurt my ears, though I hear very little of
it. I mean, I could not hear the right punch. I know that the RX6 could go as deep as 18 hz, but I know bass
when I hear it. Actually, I do not really know what "boomy" sounds like. Aren't low frequencies supposed
to boom? MA enclosed along cylindrical sponges they call port bungs which are meant to reduce "boominess".
There are times that I feel that the bass becomes so loud that I need to cut back on them. But when I
stick them into the ports, I notice that there is an overall loss not only in the volume but also in the
quality of the bass, which I do not like.

I do not know how to set the EQ bands in the AVR. But i find that there are noticeable changes when I let
preset EQ setting in Windows Media Player

I'm using a laptop in playing the files. It is hooked up to the AVR via HDMI cable. I have also installed
the latest NVidia HD audio driver. I believe the laptop is capable enough in squeezing quality from
the samples because I could hear a marked difference between a sample from a cd and a FLAC sample.
It is really noticeable that it is almost like night and day

karzai · « **Reply #3393 on:** Jun 12, 2011 at 11:41 PM »

Quote from: audiojunkie on Jun 12, 2011 at 09:59 PM

Hi Karzai, Also glad to know another Pdvd member in Kuwait. We are now 4 aside from me
Audiobackyard & Defcon3 both staying Salwa and I'm in Old Khaitan. I already been to their
place several times, you can check their system in the gallery.
There are more into this hobby but not members of this site.

Salmiya is quite far from your location and also not familiar w/ bus route. I only know from my
place & Kwt City. Try to call this No. 25719499 & enquire if they have branch in Fahaheel. sorry
for the O.T. MOD..

To be on topic, how did you get you MA to Kuwait? I check online & found the dealer but seems they
don't have showroom. Is it by order only? Thanks!

I ordered them from Tones and Colors in Saudi Arabia. Since they were delivered by land and through
Kuwait Post Office Parcel, shipment charges were very minimal, although with Kuwait PO's reputation,
it's almost a miracle that they made it here.

You can contact Saher Sheerbainy through this email address: [email protected]

Anyway, thanks for the info on other members.

Stagea · « **Reply #3394 on:** Jun 12, 2011 at 11:53 PM »

Quote from: karzai on Jun 12, 2011 at 11:29 PM

It sounds like, when I close my eyes, I don't hear the music as though the real musicians were there. It still
feels like the sound is coming from the speakers although the sound image seems to originate from the center.

My listening position is a third of the distance between the two walls away from the speakers, just about 2'
from the rear wall. My TV is flushed on the wall so I could not bring the speakers further front as they are quite
deep. From MA Manual's recommended speaker placement, I already had them placed about 7" from the wall.

Yes, I believe the highs and the mids are a little bit smeared in the sense that I do not find them as
detailed as I'd hoped they would be and not up to what the "raving" reviews were saying. Also, it seems
that the highs and mids are "drowned" in bass. When I try to crank up the volume to reveal more of them,
the bass also just gets louder to the point that it begins to hurt my ears, though I hear very little of
it. I mean, I could not hear the right punch. I know that the RX6 could go as deep as 18 hz, but I know bass
when I hear it. Actually, I do not really know what "boomy" sounds like. Aren't low frequencies supposed
to boom? MA enclosed along cylindrical sponges they call port bungs which are meant to reduce "boominess".
There are times that I feel that the bass becomes so loud that I need to cut back on them. But when I
stick them into the ports, I notice that there is an overall loss not only in the volume but also in the
quality of the bass, which I do not like.

I do not know how to set the EQ bands in the AVR. But i find that there are noticeable changes when I let
preset EQ setting in Windows Media Player

I'm using a laptop in playing the files. It is hooked up to the AVR via HDMI cable. I have also installed
the latest NVidia HD audio driver. I believe the laptop is capable enough in squeezing quality from
the samples because I could hear a marked difference between a sample from a cd and a FLAC sample.
It is really noticeable that it is almost like night and day

Start with ditching Windows Media Player when playing audio files. Try Foobar, then output via WASAPI (granted you're running Windows 7 or Vista). This will bypass several layers of Windows' audio processing. Just remember to select a different audio output device as your windows default device to prevent conflicts.

This should allow you to pass a clean and unprocessed signal to your AVR. You can do the EQing from the AVR, so that it would be applied to all sources.

As for the excessive lows (or boominess), the closer you put your speakers to boundaries, the boomier it would get (and it's much worse in a square room). If you can't push it away from the wall any further, start cutting the lows in the EQ. As for the smearing of mids and highs, simple room treatment might help (like large & thick curtains, carpets, tapestry, furniture, shelves, etc.) to reduce the reflective areas and break-up large flat surfaces.

Stagea · « **Reply #3395 on:** Jun 13, 2011 at 12:13 AM »

I guess the general mindset when designing AVRs is:
"How can we add more features and build it at a lower cost?"

This seems especially true, as AVR price points have continuously gone down, while the feature set keeps on increasing. There is nothing wrong with this, as this seems to be what sells in the general HT market.

When designing HiFi gear, the apparent mindset is:
"How can we make it better, to justify charging more?"

HiFi pricing had been on the rise, especially for high end components. Sound quality improvements (sometimes just changes) and cosmetics appeal to the target consumer. No new features are generally added when makers refresh their product line, but they advertise the internal changes that they've made to (supposedly) improve the resulting output.

audiojunkie · « **Reply #3396 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 12:54 AM »

Quote from: karzai on Jun 12, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I ordered them from Tones and Colors in Saudi Arabia. Since they were delivered by land and through
Kuwait Post Office Parcel, shipment charges were very minimal, although with Kuwait PO's reputation,
it's almost a miracle that they made it here.

You can contact Saher Sheerbainy through this email address: [email protected]

Anyway, thanks for the info on other members.

Thanks for the info.
This I found for local dealer.. http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/dealers/worldwide/kuwait/

karzai · « **Reply #3397 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 12:27 PM »

Quote from: Stagea on Jun 12, 2011 at 11:53 PM

Start with ditching Windows Media Player when playing audio files. Try Foobar, then output via WASAPI (granted you're running Windows 7 or Vista). This will bypass several layers of Windows' audio processing. Just remember to select a different audio output device as your windows default device to prevent conflicts.

This should allow you to pass a clean and unprocessed signal to your AVR. You can do the EQing from the AVR, so that it would be applied to all sources.

As for the excessive lows (or boominess), the closer you put your speakers to boundaries, the boomier it would get (and it's much worse in a square room). If you can't push it away from the wall any further, start cutting the lows in the EQ. As for the smearing of mids and highs, simple room treatment might help (like large & thick curtains, carpets, tapestry, furniture, shelves, etc.) to reduce the reflective areas and break-up large flat surfaces.

I couldn’t seem to find any links to free foobar. Lol. Looks like I’m soliciting to acquire pirated copies. Anyway, my curiosity is piqued by the ability of foobar to process sound.
Thanks for all the advice, I’m starting to do a remodelling quite a bit, though my room mate thinks it’s weird. But what does he know, right?

Stagea · « **Reply #3398 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM »

Quote from: karzai on Jun 14, 2011 at 12:27 PM

I couldn’t seem to find any links to free foobar. Lol. Looks like I’m soliciting to acquire pirated copies. Anyway, my curiosity is piqued by the ability of foobar to process sound.
Thanks for all the advice, I’m starting to do a remodelling quite a bit, though my room mate thinks it’s weird. But what does he know, right?

Best of luck with the remodeling.

Foobar is freeware. Check out the link below:
http://www.foobar2000.org/

Gwenael · « **Reply #3399 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 01:42 PM »

maki-chime in na din, sorry if OT mods

@ sir karzai, before spending your hard earn money on additional equipment maybe you should try this as well :
- i believe your a/v is also equip with Audyssey Multi-eq, try to run it who knows you might like the
improvement
- try to remove the bi-amp and just run 1 speaker cable like normal connection (some people in other
forums reported that they didn't like the sound of their setup when bi-amp using the amp terminal-C
- try to improve your room acoustics if you can
- use foobar + wasapi as master stagea suggested, you might be surprised with the improvement

by the way, i'm using an older model marantz SR8001+ikon6. when playing FLAC on my laptop, i'm using foobar+wasapi player as well and i'm very happy on how it sounds (at least for me).

karzai · « **Reply #3400 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 02:55 PM »

Quote from: audiojunkie on Jun 14, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Thanks for the info.
This I found for local dealer.. http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/dealers/worldwide/kuwait/

Sorry audiojunkie but that dealer does not exist anymore. I got word from Monitor Audio that the only authorized dealer of MA equipment in the Middle East is Tones and Colors owned by Mr. Saheer Shairbeeny of Saudi Arabia. He also owns the MA dealer in UAE.

karzai · « **Reply #3401 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 03:02 PM »

@ Stagea,

Thanks for the link. It's hard to believe that something so good as to beat the WM player can actually be downloaded for free.

@ Gwenael,

Now I'm becoming restless to go home and try this foobar-wasapi tandem. Thanks for your advice and surely, they are not out of topic.

Will let everyone know about the result tomorrow.

karzai · « **Reply #3402 on:** Jun 14, 2011 at 09:53 PM »

I have installed foobar but I can't seem to find wasapi.

Can somebody please help me?

cls · « **Reply #3403 on:** Jun 15, 2011 at 06:31 AM »

Quote from: karzai on Jun 14, 2011 at 09:53 PM

I have installed foobar but I can't seem to find wasapi.

Can somebody please help me?

Download wasapi component from foobar page then:

Step 1: Open the foobar2000 preferences dialog.

Step 2: Go to the Components page.

Step 3: Click the "Install..." button, or simply drag a component archive to the list.

Step 4: Press "OK", you will be prompted to restart foobar2000 in order to load the newly installed component

Digities · « **Reply #3404 on:** Jun 15, 2011 at 05:56 PM »

i've always found foobar to sound too bright. try j river media center..

.

Arulco · « **Reply #3405 on:** Jun 15, 2011 at 06:33 PM »

^ Foobar via WASAPI is supposed to be transparent. Maybe J River does some post-processing that suits your ears better.

Digities · « **Reply #3406 on:** Jun 16, 2011 at 10:18 PM »

and you belong to the group of people that believe that all media players should sound the same ?

Arulco · « **Reply #3407 on:** Jun 17, 2011 at 06:29 AM »

No but the developer of Foobar2k says this:

Quote

Does foobar2000 sound better than other players?

No. Most of “sound quality differences” people “hear” are placebo effect (at least with real music), as actual differences in produced sound data are below their noise floor (1 or 2 last bits in 16bit samples). foobar2000 has sound processing features such as software resampling or 24bit output on new high-end soundcards, but most of the other mainstream players are capable of doing the same by now.

http://www.foobar2000.org/FAQ

Digities · « **Reply #3408 on:** Jun 17, 2011 at 07:19 AM »

Quote from: °BSΩLE†e on Jun 17, 2011 at 06:29 AM

No but the developer of Foobar2k says this:

http://www.foobar2000.org/FAQ

that's what he says. i doubt he has a system capable of high resolution. nor is an audiophile, nor is aware that any change in code of a program can change the sound, nor even the intricacies of having a system capable of resolving differences like (putting your amp on the floor makes it sound different from it being on a rack, or changing tubes, or anything like that) or such can also change the sound.. :p

Arulco · « **Reply #3409 on:** Jun 17, 2011 at 09:01 AM »

Okay.

Just to stay on-topic: my monitor audio BR2 speakers probably tame the inherent "brightness" of foobar2k then.

Digities · « **Reply #3410 on:** Jun 17, 2011 at 12:49 PM »

.

on that note - my rx2's are so revealing, it brings out the digititis from foobar :/.

buzzliteyear · « **Reply #3411 on:** Jul 06, 2011 at 08:02 PM »

Which is better the RS1 versus RX1?

only those who have first hand experienced opinion please.

avshop · « **Reply #3412 on:** Jul 07, 2011 at 10:45 AM »

We have the rx1 and rx2 available for audition.

Conan · « **Reply #3413 on:** Jul 29, 2011 at 09:24 PM »

I was able to audition Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 a while ago at Watt Hi-Fi at Makati Cinema Square. At first it was paired with Rotel RA-04 amp and NAD C 515BEE CD player. It sounded bright and very detailed but slightly on the verge of too much brightness. I then requested for it to be paired with NAD C326BEE amp. The sound was no longer as bright, it was now warmer but still with excellent detail. After that a customer demoed B&W 685 speakers with the NAD amp and CD player. The resulting sound was too warm for me with a significant reduction in high frequency detail, good bass though but the BX2 also had good bass performance.