Author Topic: Opamp rolling for cd players and DACs?? (Read 49993 times)

H a n $ · « **Reply #90 on:** Aug 31, 2004 at 01:44 PM »

jun,

replied to your pm..

odyopayl · « **Reply #91 on:** Sep 01, 2004 at 08:35 AM »

After 24 hours of playing (after replacement of OPA 2134 to AD8066) It shows more improvements now full bass have depth, mids shows refinement but highs still shows sibilance (for some CD's) i'm waiting for 48 hours if there is a control after completion of burn-in process.
BTW, i'm using the latest bookshelf speaker with New Sony speaker created by Anthony (not yet decided for my speakers now because of the USHER & Aurum C, need to audition Aurum C)
My CD player USHER CD-100
My AMP C-M100+

H a n $ · « **Reply #92 on:** Sep 01, 2004 at 08:44 AM »

Quote from: odyopayl on Sep 01, 2004 at 08:35 AM

After 24 hours of playing (after replacement of OPA 2134 to AD8066) It shows more improvements now full bass have depth, mids shows refinement but highs still shows sibilance (for some CD's) i'm waiting for 48 hours if there is a control after completion of burn-in process.
BTW, i'm using the latest bookshelf speaker with New Sony speaker created by Anthony (not yet decided for my speakers now because of the USHER & Aurum C, need to audition Aurum C)
My CD player USHER CD-100
My AMP C-M100+

Galing!! jun

audi0slave · « **Reply #93 on:** Sep 02, 2004 at 10:40 AM »

Jun, ang galing naman ng branded tube amp mo.... Consonance M100+

eh kahit anong CD Player naman ang ikakabit mo dyan, tiyak maganda tunog nyan!!

saludo ako sayo parekuy...

john5479 · « **Reply #94 on:** Sep 02, 2004 at 11:18 AM »

ayos yan odyopayl...yung m100+ tweak din natin hehe...btw matutupad pa ba yung promise mo? hehe

odyopayl · « **Reply #95 on:** Sep 02, 2004 at 02:38 PM »

Quote from: john5479 on Sep 02, 2004 at 11:18 AM

ayos yan odyopayl...yung m100+ tweak din natin hehe...btw matutupad pa ba yung promise mo? hehe

Sir sent you PM

H a n $ · « **Reply #96 on:** Sep 03, 2004 at 01:53 PM »

Odyopayl,

YOu have Pm pre..

odyopayl · « **Reply #97 on:** Sep 03, 2004 at 04:34 PM »

Quote from: hans adriane on Sep 03, 2004 at 01:53 PM

Odyopayl,

YOu have Pm pre..

Replied to your pM

odyopayl · « **Reply #98 on:** Sep 03, 2004 at 05:50 PM »

After 24 hours of burn-in process: Perfect! The voice! Instruments are real! If I will explain the difference by analogy it's like replacing your 12au7 JAN Sylvania into Telefunken!!!!!! You can hear the detail of drums the rolling! It really improved the soundstage. Like what I've said you can realy feel the depth of Bass. The Mids now more appealing and more refine! (This is just me hehhehehe! tomorrow somebody will proved of my OP amp tweak thru comparison!!!!

iceman90a · « **Reply #99 on:** Sep 03, 2004 at 05:59 PM »

Uy! OT pero EL34 push pull shootout ulit yung AMX ni Hans sa M100 ni Odyopayl vs ST70 ni Kimpao!

sige na!

audioslave · « **Reply #100 on:** Sep 03, 2004 at 06:03 PM »

may tumapat na ba sa C M100+ ni odyopayl? kaninong amp ka A-B ng M100+? sino panalo?

Bogsle · « **Reply #101 on:** Sep 04, 2004 at 02:05 PM »

Quote from: audi0slave on Aug 31, 2004 at 12:59 PM

odyopayl,

yung AD8066 ko kaya? na kay Bogsle pa?

odyosleyb

Nasa akin pa yung AD8066 mo. Naka solder na nga sa Browndogs eh, sinabay ko na sa akin.

Ikakabit na nga lang natin sa mother board ng CDP mo, eh. Go signal mo na lang ang hinihintay.

Ano, kukunin mo na ba?

Text or PM mo lang ako.

audioslave · « **Reply #102 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 09:11 AM »

AD 8066? "so small and yet so terribly good" I had a chance to listen to the wonders this AD8066 can do to a stock CD Player. CDP in point is the Usher CD-100 of odyopayl. Almost all of you may have been familiar with how the Usher CDP sounded during the last CDP shoot out but I experienced a totally different player when I heard it the last time around. The A-B comparison was held at my place where my reliable Mordaunt-Short 914 took the center stage driven by a respectably good and neutral sounding NAD C352 int-amp. This NAD int-amp rated @80wpc will put to shame most of your Rotels and other pretenders including some generic tube amps many of you have been drooling about. The music selection played was quite diverse, from big bands to acoustics, instrumentals to vocals, rock to jazz and some bass-heavy test CDs from my range of CDs and that of odyopayl's HDCD collection.

Enough with the trash talk --- For a small chip like the AD 8066, compared to OPA 2354 stock of my NAD C542, the difference is not night and day as some may have exaggerated but the marginal difference is what differentiate a high end sound from a budget sound or entry level sound. The A-B test and comparison was, most of time, performed while simultaneously playing identical CDs and switching the int-amp from one source to another. My critical nature was amazed upon hearing the musical improvement of the Usher CDP and it sounded so rich in details with a wider soundstage that was well-dispersed without any hint of harshness but exuding with impressive definition characterized by tamed and smooth highs and fuller and punchier bass. Even with hard-hitting drums while playing O-Daiko didn't sound fatiguing. The improved sound of the Usher CDP was so revelatory in helping me appreciate certain CDs when some passages in some tracks which were previously bleak sounding suddenly became alive and engaging.

For now, I can place the tweaked Usher CD-100 of odyopayl within the same ranks as rony's Exposure 2010 and a notch higher than whatever Rotel CDPs I've heard so far. Well, it would be a pleasure listening to an A-B comparison of the Usher CDP with any of the tube CDPs around including the Arcam CD-73T and the over-hyped Rotel RCD-1072.

For a cheap CDP tweak costing over a thousand bucks, the AD 8066 is a must. I'll install mine as soon as the warranty of my NAD C542 expires.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #103 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 09:31 AM »

Wow! Ayus yun review sir! Congrats in advance sa cdp mo sir!

Audioboy · « **Reply #104 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 08:52 PM »

Quote from: audioslave on Sep 05, 2004 at 09:11 AM

The A-B comparison was held at my place where my reliable Mordaunt-Short 914 took the center stage driven by a respectably good and neutral sounding NAD C352 int-amp. This NAD int-amp rated @80wpc will put to shame most of your Rotels and other pretenders including some generic tube amps many of you have been drooling about.

hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm. beeeep beeeep.

Quote

For a cheap CDP tweak costing over a thousand bucks, the AD 8066 is a must. I'll install mine as soon as the warranty of my NAD C542 expires.

kailan expiration ng warranty bro? why wait for something that can do wonders to your cdp. kalikutin na yan.

H a n $ · « **Reply #105 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 09:08 PM »

Quote

NAD C352 int-amp. This NAD int-amp rated @80wpc will put to shame most of your Rotels and other pretenders including some generic tube amps many of you have been drooling about.

Hehehehe bwaaaaaaaa napatawa ako dyan Attorney.. love your own.

Quote

For now, I can place the tweaked Usher CD-100 of odyopayl within the same ranks as rony's Exposure 2010 and a notch higher than whatever Rotel CDPs I've heard so far. Well, it would be a pleasure listening to an A-B comparison of the Usher CDP with any of the tube CDPs around including the Arcam CD-73T and the over-hyped Rotel RCD-1072.

Uy ok yan..

Quote

rony · « **Reply #106 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 09:14 PM »

Odyopayl ayos yan m100+ torroidal ba lahat ng transformer niyan? kailan pwede mapa kinggan yan. congrats dre isa ka nang bigatin audio phile niyan

H a n $ · « **Reply #107 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 09:16 PM »

Odyopayl,

Wow torroidal tranny..

pa rinig naman..

H a n $ · « **Reply #108 on:** Sep 05, 2004 at 11:52 PM »

Quote from: audioslave on Sep 05, 2004 at 09:11 AM

For a cheap CDP tweak costing over a thousand bucks, the AD 8066 is a must. I'll install mine as soon as the warranty of my NAD C542 expires.

Sir why wait.. kung worth it go ahead..

Bogsle · « **Reply #109 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 12:28 AM »

My report on the opamp rolling:

Okay, so I managed to change the regulators of my RCD02 and which gives 25Volts feed to the AD8066s. No danger in burning them anymore. However, the end result was not satisfactory, in fact in became bad. Yes, there was detail and all, but the bass response became thin.

I consulted a friend on this and he gave me two options: 1) install bypass caps, we suspect it's oscillation of the AD8066, or 2) try out another opamp--the AD826. Since I was much into upgrading my CDPs opamps I tried both. The result is the following:

1. After installing the bypass caps the AD8066 calmed down. The bass response came back plus the detail was there. But still it was too bright for my listening ears. I tried to burn-in the opamps for about 24hrs, but still no improvement.

2. I was frustrated so I tried out the AD826. It was a good thing I installed the DIL IC sockets on the motherboard of my CDP and this gave me easy time to replace the opamps. The AD826 was much better. There was detail (but not as earpiercing as the AD8066) and there was a better, cooler bass response. I was in doubt of this change so I reinserted the old opamps OPA2604 just to compare, and confirmed that the AD826 was definitely better by a margin.

Because of this I decided to stick with the AD826 instead of the AD8066, for now. I guess it is not all good stories about this bionic opamp.

However, I still have one more tweak to do. I ordered from Newark a pair of silver mica bypas caps and hope it will better manage the oscillation of the AD8066. I will provide my report when I have installed and tested it.

And to complicate things, I decided to acquire a Tono tube pre-amp and put it in between the RDC02 and RA02. But of course the preamp story would belong to a different thread.

Why am I going thru all of this? Aside from the excitement of the tweak, I have been in this state of trying to achieve or combine the musical warmth and full body of the NAD and the exciting and dynamic detail of the Rotel in one CDP -- so far the CDPs I became fond with and appreciated so much in the last CDP shootout with you guys.

It's not SARS, but I'm going crazy here. What would you guys call this sickness?

Till next posting. Thanks for reading.

audioslave · « **Reply #110 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 08:02 AM »

Quote from: JulsP168 on Sep 05, 2004 at 08:52 PM

why wait for something that can do wonders to your cdp. kalikutin na yan.

For me, I like the warmth and body of the NAD and tweaking it may lose its NAD identity and character. In short, one CDP can't have it all... you just have to get satisfied with what makes you happy the most.... and choosing NAD was my first option because I like the full richness and body of its sound more than the wider soundstage of most high end CDPs.

what about you guys.... can you describe your CDPs' identity and character?

odyopayl · « **Reply #111 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 08:48 AM »

Sir Audioslave thank you for your time & for letting me invade your humble place. One of the reason why I want you to hear my CD tweak (OP Amp) because you are also one of the serious judge during that time not to metion that your CD player is also one of the contender.
I'm happy with your comment on my CD player, it's really AD8066 rules! Can't wait to hear your player tweak & lets make another comparison hehehe maybe during that time will test it with the tube Amp? Untill now i'm still curious about the sound of your gears especially the NAD amp & I't doesn't sounds SS, during our AB test with our CD players i've noticed the smooth switching between the source. Remember when we simultaneously played our player with identical software, wow that's really a tough comparative analysis. Galing ng switching wala ako marinig na gap parang di nagpapalit ng source! Your MS speakers also a big compliment on our enjoyable llistening session! (OK ba Speaker cable ko?)
Sir Bogsle thank you for your effort & time for the Browndog adaptor & free soldering sa AD8066. I almost let go my player, I'm waiting to test it with CD-120 (maybe soon). Sayang di ka naka attend.
Sir Hans Adriane soon maririnig nyo na rin M100+ i'm still waiting for a full burn-in before replacing it with NOS maybe mullard (kung swertehen somebody is offering me) or Svetlana na lang.
Sir Rony thanks I don't think I'm already an audiophile but odyopayl ok hehehe. Wait ka na lang sa M99+ sa tabi-tabi mas OK na amp ito maraming tube pwede ikabit for a tweak!
Overall, once again it's proven that OP Amp tweak really puts magic in your CD player!
Sir Audiosalve! Once again thank you uli sa place & Drink (in cansssssss) at pulutan!!!!!sana maulit muli!!!!

odyopayl · « **Reply #112 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 08:57 AM »

Quote from: Bogsle on Sep 06, 2004 at 12:28 AM

My report on the opamp rolling:

Okay, so I managed to change the regulators of my RCD02 and which gives 25Volts feed to the AD8066s. No danger in burning them anymore. However, the end result was not satisfactory, in fact in became bad. Yes, there was detail and all, but the bass response became thin.

I consulted a friend on this and he gave me two options: 1) install bypass caps, we suspect it's oscillation of the AD8066, or 2) try out another opamp--the AD826. Since I was much into upgrading my CDPs opamps I tried both. The result is the following:

1. After installing the bypass caps the AD8066 calmed down. The bass response came back plus the detail was there. But still it was too bright for my listening ears. I tried to burn-in the opamps for about 24hrs, but still no improvement.

2. I was frustrated so I tried out the AD826. It was a good thing I installed the DIL IC sockets on the motherboard of my CDP and this gave me easy time to replace the opamps. The AD826 was much better. There was detail (but not as earpiercing as the AD8066) and there was a better, cooler bass response. I was in doubt of this change so I reinserted the old opamps OPA2604 just to compare, and confirmed that the AD826 was definitely better by a margin.

Because of this I decided to stick with the AD826 instead of the AD8066, for now. I guess it is not all good stories about this bionic opamp.

However, I still have one more tweak to do. I ordered from Newark a pair of silver mica bypas caps and hope it will better manage the oscillation of the AD8066. I will provide my report when I have installed and tested it.

And to complicate things, I decided to acquire a Tono tube pre-amp and put it in between the RDC02 and RA02. But of course the preamp story would belong to a different thread.

Why am I going thru all of this? Aside from the excitement of the tweak, I have been in this state of trying to achieve or combine the musical warmth and full body of the NAD and the exciting and dynamic detail of the Rotel in one CDP -- so far the CDPs I became fond with and appreciated so much in the last CDP shootout with you guys.

It's not SARS, but I'm going crazy here. What would you guys call this sickness?

Till next posting. Thanks for reading.

Very interesting experience! Correct ka dyan sir bogle everything is a matter of matching! Pag di ka nagandahan kailangan mo match stick!!! Joke lang sir! GAling mo naman it seems you mastered OP amp & Digital clock!

H a n $ · « **Reply #113 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 09:04 AM »

Quote

Overall, once again it's proven that OP Amp tweak really puts magic in your CD player!

Agree bro.. Congrats sa tweak mo at for keeps na cdp.

and M100+ ganda yan sir.. wish wish ko lang yan di kya budget kaya i stick to generic tube..

Garp · « **Reply #114 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 11:00 AM »

Congrats to odyopal and Bogsle. Nice review Audioslave. Now that some of you have tried out opamp changes maybe you can try other tweaks:

rectifier change to soft recovery
increase power supply caps
bypass all power supply caps with .22 poly caps
eliminate those pesky muting transistors
eliminate that last coupling cap (check if you have dc after doing so)
Change the opamp decoupling caps to very high quality

In my experience here, the increasing the power supply caps will produce the biggest change.

Bogsle, two things I have thought about since our last conversation. One the type of bypass caps do make a difference. Second the decoupling caps on your Rotel is 100uf for either rails whereas in the NAD its 470uf on the negative rail and 940uf for the positive rail. Maybe 100uf is too small for the ad8066--am skeptical about this but it could be it. The Rotel has no opamp bypass caps while the NAD has a multilayer ceramic (changed that initially to the foil and film I gave you and then back to ceramic. The foil and film I gave you sounds better. Let's see how the mica goes but in the meantime I'll try my spare 0.1 auricaps as bypass.

Odyopal, I suppose yours have bypass caps already in the design of the cdp otherwise that opamp will oscillate and you'll hear the same horrible sound as Bogsle did? Care to share what Usher uses? Usually its the capacitor that's nearest (usually perpendicular to the pins of the opamp). If you can manage to look underneath the board, its connected between v+ and v- or pins 8 and 4.

john5479 · « **Reply #115 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 11:31 AM »

Quote from: hans adriane on Sep 06, 2004 at 09:04 AM

Agree bro.. Congrats sa tweak mo at for keeps na cdp. and M100+ ganda yan sir.. wish wish ko lang yan di kya budget kaya i stick to generic tube..

Pre kanya kanyang pandinig yan, yung generic tube amp ko na binili mo sa akin dati kayang lumaban sa M100+ and NAD 352

anyway I'll be getting a new CD player real soon, since most of the comments for the AD8066 are positive i will definitely in my shortlis for the opamp tweaks

john5479 · « **Reply #116 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 11:40 AM »

Quote from: Garp on Sep 06, 2004 at 11:00 AM

In my experience here, the increasing the power supply caps will produce the biggest change.

This is quite true, tried it on a DAC though and it worked wonders. One thing that makes budget cd players sound thin is due to the poor power supply. changing the power supply caps and even the regulators to spec improves the sound a great deal..and makes sure the OPAMP you will use is working at ideal voltage

odyopayl · « **Reply #117 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 11:44 AM »

Quote from: john5479 on Sep 06, 2004 at 11:40 AM

This is quite true, tried it on a DAC though and it worked wonders. One thing that makes budget cd players sound thin is due to the poor power supply. changing the power supply caps and even the regulators to spec improves the sound a great deal..and makes sure the OPAMP you will use is working at ideal voltage

This is true! Did you know that electronic gears become expensive because of using premium parts not to mention the brands?
My CD player (USHER) already replace the power supply capacitor to ELNA CAPS.

H a n $ · « **Reply #118 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 11:45 AM »

Quote from: john5479 on Sep 06, 2004 at 11:31 AM

Pre kanya kanyang pandinig yan, yung generic tube amp ko na binili mo sa akin dati kayang lumaban sa M100+ and NAD 352

Hehehee ikaw naman..................

joke joke joke yan..

psssst alam ko sir..

audioslave · « **Reply #119 on:** Sep 06, 2004 at 11:46 AM »

Quote from: odyopayl on Sep 06, 2004 at 08:48 AM

OK ba Speaker cable ko?

bro, swabeng swabe twisted pair of speaker cables mo!! i'm very much impressed with it.... it sounded much like the XLO Type 5.1 Reference cable na ginamit sa CDP shoot out... (ganun din kataba - literally and sonically)