Author Topic: JojoD's Tube and Solid State Projects  (Read 1134849 times)

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Offline Cjtjader

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3660 on: Nov 25, 2010 at 10:47 PM »
Ok na master Cal. Tama na. baka alisin ko pa yun letter "s" sa spooky.  ;D  ;D  ;D

Hahhahaha

Ako naman, NMT =optical cable=> Cambridge 740c digital input =analog RCA=> power amp ==> speykers:D
Wala pa kasi pambili ng preamp.  ;)
Siguro kung meron ako optical cable ng katulad ng gamit mo, malamang hindi na ako mag coax! ;)


Yes master tukayo. Nire-research ko kung gaano katagal mo matatapos ang sandamakmak na project mo ngayon.  :D
Hahhahaha Yari ka, brader JojoD!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3661 on: Nov 25, 2010 at 10:54 PM »
Actually, kahapon ko lang pinalitan ng optical cable. Dati, digital coax. Nagkakaproblema ang system namin ni master stagea sa digital coax. Sa tingin niya, wala daw galvanic isolator ang cdp namin. Nag hahanap pa kami ng isolating tranny for coax digital signal na 24bit capable.

Offline Cjtjader

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3662 on: Nov 25, 2010 at 11:00 PM »
Actually, kahapon ko lang pinalitan ng optical cable. Dati, digital coax. Nagkakaproblema ang system namin ni master stagea sa digital coax. Sa tingin niya, wala daw galvanic isolator ang cdp namin. Nag hahanap pa kami ng isolating tranny for coax digital signal na 24bit capable.

Anong po problema sa coax? Salamat! ;)
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Offline Onkyo606

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3663 on: Nov 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM »
haba ng hinabol ko basahin sumakay lang ako ng bus eh patong patong na ang post ;D ;D ;D ;D

ayos na muna ako sa set up ko ngayon, puro acoustic panel na lang muna ang mabili at mas matipid pag kagastusan yun hehehehe

brader Jo yung bandpass design ba yung nasa loob yung driver? ganyan yata yung design ng US Audio yung una ko subwoofer. Ang ganda nya sa audiso listening kaya lang hirap ako sa movie listening kahit anong galaw gawin ko sa location, at kahit anong adjust ko sa crossover sa receiver, boomy pa din.
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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3664 on: Nov 25, 2010 at 11:06 PM »
Anong po problema sa coax? Salamat! ;)

Yun digital coax, parang nagsy-sync ata yun electricity ng NMT sa CA740c digital coax input. Dalawang CDP na ang nasisira ni master Ivan dahil sa issue na ito.

Offline Onkyo606

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3665 on: Nov 25, 2010 at 11:07 PM »
Actually, kahapon ko lang pinalitan ng optical cable. Dati, digital coax. Nagkakaproblema ang system namin ni master stagea sa digital coax. Sa tingin niya, wala daw galvanic isolator ang cdp namin. Nag hahanap pa kami ng isolating tranny for coax digital signal na 24bit capable.

palitan mo kase ng coax cable na ang tatak cjtjader tingnan natin kung mag ka proiblema pa yan ;)
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Offline Stagea

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3666 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 12:48 AM »
Anong po problema sa coax? Salamat! ;)

Yung orig S/PDIF design (based on AES/EBU) kasi recommends galvanic isolation via a pulse transformer on both source and receiving sides. Unfortunately, sa kaka-costcutting ng makers sinimulang tanggalin ang isolation sa mga source, then eventually pati sa mga receiving devices. Instead of having a tranny isolate (and often step down) the output from the DAC chip, madalas resistors na lang ang gamit (voltage divider style) at madalas wala din circuit to block DC. It simplifies assembly and reduces the parts cost.

Mababa lang design signalling level ng SPDIF (0.2V min input as per spec... with many devices designed to accept even 0.1V), which is the same as AES/EBU. Madalas sensitive sa mga ground loops and stray currents ang receiving end, since ang design spec niya is to accept low level signals only. This is the reason why galvanic isolation and a DC blocking circuit would be beneficial (at one side at the very minimum). Sa pro components, EBU requires inputs and outputs to be transformer-coupled, pero sa mass market sphere eh caveat emptor.

In all fairness to most manufacturers, they are building wider tolerance inputs naman on mass market units to tolerate the possibly dirtier outputs of their cost-cut sources. Unfortunately, iba iba lang talaga ng tolerance ang mga gamit sa ganyan (hindi regulated, since beyond spec na pinaguusapan), and the end user might end up with the wrong combination.

Offline JoeyGS

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3667 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:09 AM »
Uy...interesado din ako.....pm mo din ako sa price and terms (if any)

Thanks
JoeyGS

Pag need mo bravia pwede kita matulungan i can give you a good deal.  ;)



Offline Cjtjader

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3668 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:51 AM »
Yun digital coax, parang nagsy-sync ata yun electricity ng NMT sa CA740c digital coax input. Dalawang CDP na ang nasisira ni master Ivan dahil sa issue na ito.

Yung orig S/PDIF design (based on AES/EBU) kasi recommends galvanic isolation via a pulse transformer on both source and receiving sides. Unfortunately, sa kaka-costcutting ng makers sinimulang tanggalin ang isolation sa mga source, then eventually pati sa mga receiving devices. Instead of having a tranny isolate (and often step down) the output from the DAC chip, madalas resistors na lang ang gamit (voltage divider style) at madalas wala din circuit to block DC. It simplifies assembly and reduces the parts cost.

Mababa lang design signalling level ng SPDIF (0.2V min input as per spec... with many devices designed to accept even 0.1V), which is the same as AES/EBU. Madalas sensitive sa mga ground loops and stray currents ang receiving end, since ang design spec niya is to accept low level signals only. This is the reason why galvanic isolation and a DC blocking circuit would be beneficial (at one side at the very minimum). Sa pro components, EBU requires inputs and outputs to be transformer-coupled, pero sa mass market sphere eh caveat emptor.

In all fairness to most manufacturers, they are building wider tolerance inputs naman on mass market units to tolerate the possibly dirtier outputs of their cost-cut sources. Unfortunately, iba iba lang talaga ng tolerance ang mga gamit sa ganyan (hindi regulated, since beyond spec na pinaguusapan), and the end user might end up with the wrong combination.

Thanks for the explanation!
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Offline rony

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3669 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:55 AM »
Salamat Sir nelson and Cal Tjader sa replys.  :)


Offline JoeyGS

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3670 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 10:36 AM »
Thanks for the explanation.

Does the problem persist in any brand or type of coax cable?

And, how would we know if there are no provision for galvanic isolation?

Regards,
JoeyGS


Yung orig S/PDIF design (based on AES/EBU) kasi recommends galvanic isolation via a pulse transformer on both source and receiving sides. Unfortunately, sa kaka-costcutting ng makers sinimulang tanggalin ang isolation sa mga source, then eventually pati sa mga receiving devices. Instead of having a tranny isolate (and often step down) the output from the DAC chip, madalas resistors na lang ang gamit (voltage divider style) at madalas wala din circuit to block DC. It simplifies assembly and reduces the parts cost.

Mababa lang design signalling level ng SPDIF (0.2V min input as per spec... with many devices designed to accept even 0.1V), which is the same as AES/EBU. Madalas sensitive sa mga ground loops and stray currents ang receiving end, since ang design spec niya is to accept low level signals only. This is the reason why galvanic isolation and a DC blocking circuit would be beneficial (at one side at the very minimum). Sa pro components, EBU requires inputs and outputs to be transformer-coupled, pero sa mass market sphere eh caveat emptor.

In all fairness to most manufacturers, they are building wider tolerance inputs naman on mass market units to tolerate the possibly dirtier outputs of their cost-cut sources. Unfortunately, iba iba lang talaga ng tolerance ang mga gamit sa ganyan (hindi regulated, since beyond spec na pinaguusapan), and the end user might end up with the wrong combination.

Offline Stagea

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3671 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 12:06 PM »
Does the problem persist in any brand or type of coax cable?

And, how would we know if there are no provision for galvanic isolation?

This is not cable-related sir, it's more the design nung gear being connected via SPDIF.

To know, you can either open the unit and look for an SPDIF tranny, or check out the schematics (if you have access to it). Each s/pdif coaxial input or output should have one, if the device is indeed isolated (unless it uses relays to share fewer traffos).

It typically looks like this:


or this:


There are more compact ones that look like ICs (similar to what NICs use), but they're usually of a much lower quality.
« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2010 at 12:10 PM by Stagea »

Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3672 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 08:00 PM »
wala na ako nakikita na may galvanic tranny kahit nun haydays pa ng mga surplus cdp, tama ang ginagawa na nga lang nila resistor divider na lang ang termination...

Offline Stagea

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3673 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:02 PM »
wala na ako nakikita na may galvanic tranny kahit nun haydays pa ng mga surplus cdp, tama ang ginagawa na nga lang nila resistor divider na lang ang termination...

Yup, tagtipid na talaga. Kokonti na lang ang meron. In many cases eh umuubra naman, may mga particularly sensitive devices lang at siyempre depende na din sa setup.

Aside from this, pag sinilip mo sa oscilloscope ang pulse output ng mga mass-market SPDIF devices ngayon ang dudumi na ng waveform compared sa magandang implementation. Madalas may mga peaks at ripple, tapos mabagal ang rise at decay.
« Last Edit: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:03 PM by Stagea »

Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3674 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:43 PM »
wala na solution diyan kungdi sa side ng external DAC, dapat maganda noise rejection. kaya madalas meron digital buffer and integrator onboard para tumaas noise rejection.

Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3675 on: Nov 26, 2010 at 09:44 PM »
Brader Cal,

Happy na naman si pinsan mo... puyat yun for sure!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Offline Cjtjader

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3676 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 06:18 AM »
Brader Cal,

Happy na naman si pinsan mo... puyat yun for sure!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Yup yup yup!!  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Ako din ha para sa LS!!!! ;D ;D
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Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3677 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 08:26 AM »
Yup yup yup!!  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Ako din ha para sa LS!!!! ;D ;D



ANO BA YAN?!!!  ;D ;D ;D


mag pinsan nga kayo hehehe... ;D

Offline Stagea

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3678 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 08:41 AM »
wala na solution diyan kungdi sa side ng external DAC, dapat maganda noise rejection. kaya madalas meron digital buffer and integrator onboard para tumaas noise rejection.

Yup, ganun na nga. Or better yet, reclocking na lang pang-retoke ng output.

Eto mga output tranny sa spdif:



Eto meron din pero cheap tranny ang gamit (hindi talaga pang-spdif):

Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3679 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 09:19 AM »
dati parang may nabanggit si Edrel na gagawin pulse tranny project, not sure lang kung natuloy sir pero I think pwedeng-pwede yun integrate sa mga SPDIF outputs or better sa input ng DAC.


Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3680 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 09:28 AM »
Salamat po!







Offline Onkyo606

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3681 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 09:55 AM »
Salamat po!








buti na lang wala ako ipod kung hindi nagastusan na naman ako hahahahaha
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Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3682 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 10:53 AM »
buti na lang wala ako ipod kung hindi nagastusan na naman ako hahahahaha


Brader, wala ka iPod?!  :o Digital yun ah? ::)  Buti pa pala kami mga analog boys meron iPod hahaha! ;D ;D ;D

Offline Cjtjader

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3683 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 10:55 AM »

Brader, wala ka iPod?!  :o Digital yun ah? ::)  Buti pa pala kami mga analog boys meron iPod hahaha! ;D ;D ;D

hahahahah nadale mo si tirso!!! :P :P :P
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Offline Onkyo606

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3684 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 10:59 AM »

Brader, wala ka iPod?!  :o Digital yun ah? ::)  Buti pa pala kami mga analog boys meron iPod hahaha! ;D ;D ;D

wala ako ipod brader and meron ako I TOUCH hahahahahahaha
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Offline Onkyo606

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3685 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 11:00 AM »
hahahahah nadale mo si tirso!!! :P :P :P


ayos patay tayo dyan hahahahahaha
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Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3686 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 11:08 AM »
hahahahah nadale mo si tirso!!! :P :P :P


naka isa din brader! hahaha!  ;D ;D ;D


wala ako ipod brader and meron ako I TOUCH hahahahahahaha


ayun naman pala! kala ko wala ka iPod...  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Onkyo606

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3687 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 11:17 AM »

naka isa din brader! hahaha!  ;D ;D ;D



ayun naman pala! kala ko wala ka iPod...  ;D ;D ;D

na sequester na ng anak huhuhuhuhu
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Offline JojoD818

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3688 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 11:26 AM »
na sequester na ng anak huhuhuhuhu


ah hindi na bago yan hahaha

Offline audiojunkie

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Re: JojoD's Website on his Tube Projects
« Reply #3689 on: Nov 27, 2010 at 11:33 AM »
Maraming salamat Master Jojo sa PM...  :)

ganda ng mga Ipod cables na yun ah! are those made from CAT-5  cables? ..  :o
« Last Edit: Nov 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM by audiojunkie »
Anthem CD1
Anthem Pre1
Audio Linear TT
Ortofon Rondo Red
Theta Dac
GTA SE-40 Amp
JBL L7
AudioQuest