Author Topic: Newbie and Not-so Noob Thread: Questions (FAQ) on anything Tubes  (Read 97977 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
the power available from the power transformer is fixed, and so by using solid state rectifier, power that would otherwise be lost to the rectifier tube can be used by the the output tube instead...this is as simple as it can get...

tama. if he uses a 5U4G, the voltage drop is already 44V, which means for the same B+ requirement, he needs a higher secondary from the power transformer. if solid state is used, the voltage drop is nothing to worry about.

Malaki ba ang price difference?  

It's up to you if the price difference justifies a Plitron's 100Khz bandwidth over the Tamura's 30Khz bandwidth (unless you go to the higher F series, like the F-2003?)  

Baliktad... the Plitron up to 80kHz and Amorphous Tamura up to 100kHz... the cheap Tamura up to 50kHz. When the right time comes, i'll get one of those. Yung pang PP nila very reasonable.

Anyway, you could just buy one, reverse engineer it and copy the construction, right? Could be a lot cheaper.

Not my cup of tea... maybe joan2 can make a toroid OPT as he designs and build himself.

What do you think joan2?
« Last Edit: Jul 17, 2003 at 04:31 PM by arnoldc »

Offline Audioboy

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,034
  • "That's a matter of opinion, decide yourself"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
guys,

what do you mean by PP and OPT?  ???

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
what do you mean by PP and OPT?  ???

PP = push pull, OPT is output transformer

sorry for the acronyms  :-[

Offline Audioboy

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,034
  • "That's a matter of opinion, decide yourself"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0

the power available from the power transformer is fixed, and so by using solid state rectifier, power that would otherwise be lost to the rectifier tube can be used by the the output tube instead...this is as simple as it can get...


thanks for clarifying. ;D

Offline Audioboy

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,034
  • "That's a matter of opinion, decide yourself"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
PP = push pull, OPT is output transformer

sorry for the acronyms  :-[

tnx arnoldc  :)

Offline ramble_on

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
hope this isn't OT; what would you suggest to be the ideal speaker sensitivity? ideal being something that a decent PP or SS amp could drive without too much difficulty and at the same time, with the listener being able to enjoy listening at above average levels of loudness without experiencing listening fatigue or any of those negative thingies associated with loud(read-distorted) music.

i purposedly omitted SETs becasue of their rather finicky requirements when it comes to speaker matching/driving.

thanks...


Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
ramble_on, i have three tube amps. a 2A3 (3W), a 300B (7W) and a PP EL34 (40W)

all these amps drive a 89dB Infinity Kappa 200, with EASE.

it's about system matching. you just have to try.

now, i'm building 45 SET amp (1.5W) and in this case i am looking for higher sensitivity. i have tried a Klipsch, but didn't work out for me (it may for you). i have tried a Coincident Triumph Signature, now this is GOOD! still looking.

Offline joan2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 310
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Quote
Not my cup of tea... maybe joan2 can make a toroid OPT as he designs and build himself.

What do you think joan2?

 torroids are prone to core saturation since it has no air gap, i think the only way to use them as set opt is to cut the donut in halves and putting a spacer material to create the mandatory air gap and prevent core saturation, this canbe done, i suspect they are doing it, then wnding the coils can proceed... i  built a toroid  
power transformer once, way back in1988 when torroid core material can be obtained from junk surplus shop.. i got it in front of deeco then...it is hard to wind toroids but very challenging....if you can find the materials for it, then we can put our resources to make one, i can contribute to the deisgn aspect....
« Last Edit: Jul 17, 2003 at 07:35 PM by joan2 »

Offline av_phile

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,100
  • Music & Video Lover
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
torroids are prone to core saturation since it has no air gap, i think the only way to use them as set opt is to cut the donut in halves and putting a spacer material to create the mandatory air gap and prevent core saturation, this canbe done, i suspect they are doing it, then wnding the coils can proceed... i  built a toroid  
power transformer once, way back in1988 when torroid core material can be obtained from junk surplus shop.. i got it in front of deeco then...it is hard to wind toroids but very challenging....if you can find the materials for it, then we can put our resources to make one, i can contribute to the deisgn aspect....

You may want to read the URLs in my previous posts were i lifted the pics i posted.  And there are probabaly more about toroids used as OPT in tube amps.  You may want to google search on the subject.  As far as i know, toroids provide the best and most efficient/effective transformer function, whether as power or audio output transformer.  

I raised the subject of toroids to give tube lovers an option to further improve the sound of their gears with the proper DIY upgrade skills.  It's up to you to do any further research on the matter to confrim or refute my position.  Then if you think it's worth it, it's up to you to decide if you want to go this route.  You're dissenting opinion, ofcourse is most welcome.

Offline av_phile

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,100
  • Music & Video Lover
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Here's another site on the topic of upgrading a particular amp with, among other things, toroids

From
http://www.altavistaaudio.com/NPS100Dual.jpg

The power transformer in the NPS100 can be upgraded to an extremely nice toroid. Counterpoint built their own transformers, which made sense from a business perspective, but as a designer I always wished we could use Plitron toroidal transformers. I don't know how they do it, but Plitron toroids sound great. No one else comes close. All other transformers make theNPS100 sound sluggish and thick; a Plitron brings the sound to life: delicate and vibrant with a dead-quiet background. These transformers are custom-built to my specifications. Allow 10 weeks for these transformers to be built.


Offline joan2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 310
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Quote
I raised the subject of toroids to give tube lovers an option to further improve the sound of their gears with the proper DIY upgrade skills.  It's up to you to do any further research on the matter to confrim or refute my position.  Then if you think it's worth it, it's up to you to decide if you want to go this route.  You're dissenting opinion, ofcourse is most welcome.

this is human nature at work, we always covet the things that we don't have....be that as it may, torroids are really great, many things going for it, except that it easily saturates compared to the EI core due the the nature of its construction....i have a story to tell, way back in 1970, I wanted to construct a solid state amp., naturally, i needed a power transformer to use for power supply, i needed a  power tranformer  with 220volt pri, to 70volts center-tapped secondary.  so i brought with me a 400ma tube power transformer to "Poodmon" in legarda to be rewinded as per my needs. I was shocked to learn from the shopkeepers that it was impossible for them to do it, in other words, they know nothing about solid state amps back then as tubes were still very much in season....so what happened? i had to do DIY and i made it...i made my first solid state amp in 1971...i had done tubes using borrowed materials from a friend much earlier when i was in high school...my favorite tube was 6em5 a vertical output tube from b&w tv's which i borrowed from our own tv set....i still remember my father's face when he found out what i had done....so what am i trying to say? given the right materials, we can do it!!!!

Quote
You may want to read the URLs in my previous posts were i lifted the pics i posted.  And there are probabaly more about toroids used as OPT in tube amps.  You may want to google search on the subject.  As far as i know, toroids provide the best and most efficient/effective transformer function, whether as power or audio output transformer.  

i went to the link alright and found out that amplino gave out most of the specs, most importantly the turns ratio, with this it will be easier to calculate the actual turns...now the next thing is to get the core materials, i mentioned earlirier the they must have cut the donuts in half, actually just one gap is enough to avoid core saturation in torroids.....
« Last Edit: Jul 19, 2003 at 06:22 AM by joan2 »

Offline ariel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 265
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
anybody know the power rating of the Fisher x100 integrated amp? how about the performance?

Offline vintage_dog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 369
  • am a tube-head
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
anybody know the power rating of the Fisher x100 integrated amp? how about the performance?

the entry level x100 uses 4 6bq5/el84 output tubes in push-pull mode.  typical el84 pp amps give 15-25wpc, so conservatively 15wpc

i like the fisher amps and i still have about 6 of them (different models)...they are well designed and well built and sound very good -- not too sweet but clean sounding, dynamic.  the x100 i had uses diode rectifiers.  

Offline ariel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 265
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
thanks, i think i will check one.

Offline ariel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 265
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Hi Vintage dog, sent u a pm.

Offline arapaap

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • mind travel...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
huh Fisher  (can't remember model) -- it was guilty of making me fall in love with tubes... as in first love. ;D

Offline dr_dohh

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • you're in deep dohh now...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
hi, question:

where can i buy valves here in the philippines? bought a new amp, im looking for two ecc83 valves specifically. and how much would i spend for it?

thanks a lot

Offline arapaap

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • mind travel...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
go to wiredstate.com.  you may find the items you're looking for.

Offline vintage_dog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 369
  • am a tube-head
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
hi, question:

where can i buy valves here in the philippines? bought a new amp, im looking for two ecc83 valves specifically. and how much would i spend for it?

thanks a lot

ecc83's are better known as 12ax7, one of the most common driver/preamp tubes.  there are several types...the cheapest being those made in china, russia or eastern europe and cost about $10/pair.  good ones (new old stocks) can cost over $100 a pair.

please post your requirements at the audio marketplace of wiredstate.com.
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2003 at 03:06 PM by vintage_dog »

Offline eaferrer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • So little time, So many gadgets to buy ....
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
There seem to be a lot of DIY design in the internet, if tubes are locally available in raon what about those output transformers? mayroon po bang mga local fabricators that specializes in doing out transformers for tube amps? (i hate being a sucker ;) but please im new here, spare me heheheh ;) ) .

I have a lot of ss projects way back from high school ( circa SMG, TEL, Alexan, SWED hehehe ) after college medyo nawala na yung libangan because may EVA ng libangan :).  Hindi naman sa nagsawa na ako sa EVA hahahaha gusto ko lng balikan ang dating levangan....

Offline Audioboy

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,034
  • "That's a matter of opinion, decide yourself"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2004 at 01:02 PM by Audioboy »

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
bump

Offline bumblebee

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,371
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
I've been doing some reading...

Input tubes affect the overall sound more than output tubes. NOS input tubes sound better than newer production ones while newer output tubes are at par w/ the NOS ones. RCA is a good input tube brand (bang for the buck).

EL34 - midrange magic
6550 - slam/punch/bass (higher output)
KT88 - combination of EL34's/6550's characteristics

Did I get it right? ??? :)

Also, what's the difference between 12AU7,12AT7 and 12AX7? When are they used?

TIA ;D
« Last Edit: Aug 12, 2005 at 09:31 AM by bumblebee »

Offline ianmorales

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Virus stricken!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Sirs, I just want to ask  what kind of tube amp to buy.
             1. A  Classic tube receiver  OR
             2. A Tube Integrated amp like AMX or other Amps available.


             Thanks to all of you for answering my inquiry!

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
go for separate tube amp and preamp for more flexibility. :)


Sirs, I just want to ask  what kind of tube amp to buy.
             1. A  Classic tube receiver  OR
             2. A Tube Integrated amp like AMX or other Amps available.


             Thanks to all of you for answering my inquiry!

Offline ianmorales

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Virus stricken!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Thanks sir s2kov!

     how much will i spend with the separate amp and a pre amp? sirs please give me at least the cheapest ones. and where to buy it. thanks to all of you!

Offline Audioboy

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,034
  • "That's a matter of opinion, decide yourself"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Thanks sir s2kov!

     how much will i spend with the separate amp and a pre amp? sirs please give me at least the cheapest ones. and where to buy it. thanks to all of you!

AMX or Tono (wiredstate.com) Amp.

Offline Kamote-Tops

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Life is short! Enjoy every second!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
ano po ba ang ginagawa ng isang tube buffer?   ???

salamas

Offline ianmorales

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Virus stricken!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Sir, Any of the two. AMX or tono WS project. At least the cheapest

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Can anyone share their experience with tube buffers? Do they really sound good?

TIA  :)

« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2005 at 11:48 AM by MAtZTER »