Topic: The Wowowee Tragedy at Ultra: Your thoughts on the incident

[Ice Storm]

Lumalabas dito nasa kultura ng atin mga Pinoy ang pagiging alimango? Too bad no one has the guts to say it out loud.

[AshKetchum]

Values saka konting disiplina lang.  Hindi excuse ang kahirapan. Mahirap ka o mayaman kung walang values saka walang disiplina, eh magulo talaga.

Naalala ko tuloy iyung first time ko mag commute sa subway sa Tokyo.  Nasa isang side lang sila ng escalator para iyung nagmamadali makakadaan.  Fast lane kung baga.  Kaya iyung nasa gitna at ayaw tumabi, malamang pinoy din  he!he!

True, pero hindi lang sa Tokyo; I noticed even doon sa Hong Kong and Singapore, ganoon yung escalator system--it's like some kind of accepted protocol, dapat stay on the right side so yung mga nagmamadali can run past you on the left side. Obviously we don't know about it here.

And kahit sobrang crowded yung subway nila, once the doors open, maayos yung pagboard and disembark ng commuters. Dito everyone pushes just to go inside and crowd the area near the train doors, pero yung center area ng trains ang luwag-luwag.

Hindi konting disiplina ang kailangan--madaming disiplina ang kailangan. The problem is we *never* learn from our past mistakes; even after may mga previous incidents na, you still get to hear deaths from overcrowding in ferrys, floats sa mga parades/fiestas, etc.

[Ice Storm]

I think stayin on the right side for "slow" moving people has its origins in road right of way. It's a law in the Philippines but anyone who ever went on SLEX, STAR or NLEX can tell you it isnt done.

[Chito C.]

Regarding NLEX and SLEX, as I recall early 80's and late 70's talagang sumusunod yung mga drivers na left  lane ka kapag mag overtake ka otherwise right lane ka lang dapat. I miss those days.

[aikigrappler]

The reason this happens again and again is nobody really gets penalized for what they did especially if they are big corporations or rich people.In Philippine history only a handful of prosecutions were made against people in power or who have the money.Examples had to be made from time to time to fool the public in to thinking the justice system works. But in reality it is the poor people who get screwed.People don't follow the rules here because most of the time they can get away with it, and this includes the not so fortunate.You will see most of the pinoys obeying the laws and acting with a sense of responsibility abroad but not when they are back home.

Let us face it, Filipinos have very short memory.What is in the headlines now will just be idle talk next week.What I'm waiting for now is President Estrada to be pardoned and run again for office.They sure are taking their time there.

Hopefully they make an example of this and justice be served so that future accidents like this may be avoided.Prosecute them to the full capacity of the law and retribution be brought to those who lost a family member in the tragedy.

[jerix]

Seemingly, there is a growing concensus that the big reason for incidents such as this is the lack or want of discipline of the people. The irony of the situation is that these people are being urged now to sue so they can collect something out of it.  

[jeckjeck]

I work at shang mall and even at the mall makikita mo na magugulang talaga karamihan ng mga pilipino (rich or poor). Yung mga sasakay ng elevator sa 1st floor going up sasakay muna pababa sa basement para maka-una. Same din dun sa sasakay going down kapag marami nang nakapila mag round trip. To think na A-B crowd nang mall. Another example kapag traffic, maghihintay lang yung ibang drivers na may magsisimulang mag counter flow tapos sunuran na lahat.

True... the rich can be as gulang as any other person. Actually minsan mas may morals pa talaga yung common folks. Example, my wife is confined to a wheel chair so when in the mall, palaging elevator gamit namin to go from floor to floor. Sa MegaMall which can be considered a "masa" mall, nangyari na several times na full yung elevator pag-open sa floor namin and may mga mag-vovolunteer to step out to allow my wife and me to get on... pero sa Shang Mall never ever nangyari yon. The people riding the elevator would even look away pretending not to see us. Plus I also mentioned in another thread our experience of waiting outside the handicap CR at Shang only to see 2 very healthy (ie: not disabled)  rich ladies step out...

I do not see wealth as factor in determining values and morals... a lot of wealthy individuals are guilty of being immoral and with out values... their sins just take a different form BUT there also less fortunate individuals who can uphold their values... just this morning on the radio, an old taxi driver went to DZMM so they can help him locate the passenger who left a brand new laptop and a few thousand dollars cash in his taxi... there's also the janitress at the airport who also returned a bag full of dollars to airport management for them to return to the businessman who left it in the men's comfort room.

There are probably a thousand other incidents like these we never heard about and will never hear about which is why I do not believe wealth has anything to do with a person's morals and values.

OT: Chito C., are you really with Shang Mall? Can I PM you? Just want to share a few things... TY

[Chito C.]

OT: Chito C., are you really with Shang Mall? Can I PM you? Just want to share a few things... TY

I work for the holding company.

[Mr. Big Boy]

True, pero hindi lang sa Tokyo; I noticed even doon sa Hong Kong and Singapore, ganoon yung escalator system--it's like some kind of accepted protocol, dapat stay on the right side so yung mga nagmamadali can run past you on the left side. Obviously we don't know about it here.

And kahit sobrang crowded yung subway nila, once the doors open, maayos yung pagboard and disembark ng commuters. Dito everyone pushes just to go inside and crowd the area near the train doors, pero yung center area ng trains ang luwag-luwag.

Hindi konting disiplina ang kailangan--madaming disiplina ang kailangan. The problem is we *never* learn from our past mistakes; even after may mga previous incidents na, you still get to hear deaths from overcrowding in ferrys, floats sa mga parades/fiestas, etc.

That's true.  I think Filipinos are the most undisciplined people in Asia.  The first time I went to Thailand and attended a Sunday mass there, I was caught by surprised during the communion, they even have a system when lining up to take communion.  The people from the nearest rows from the altar goes first and people wait for their rows turn before getting in line to take their communion.

Having said that, I believe the responsibility for this tragedy still rest on the shoulders of our law enforcers, that's the bottom-line here.  People don't get disciplined automatically, someone should enforced the law and instill order to society.  Singapore clearly showed that people's habit and behavior can be changed by a strong government.  If you ask me I think Bayani is capable of doing this.

During the height of the protest rallies against GMA I often hear Gen Querol saying that CPR is meant to keep the people from doing harm against others and against themselves.  Those protests rallyist (even in "prayer rallies") definitely did not asked the assistance of Gen Querol or the PNP to keep order within their ranks, much so coordinated with them.  But just the same Gen Querol and the PNP were there in full battle gear with cargo container as barricades and some fire trucks.  All of those efforts were there, “only to keep people from getting hurt”, that is what Querol said.  It didn’t take a single meeting or coordination with the opposition for the PNP to act then.  Now I wonder why in the case of WOWOWEE where there is a much bigger crowd, bigger than any of the rallies I've seen the opposition mounted, where there is much more lives at stake and a higher risk of people getting hurt - Gen Querol and the PNP did not do anything to prevent it, despite of the fact that ABS-CBN/WOWOWEE asked for their assistance to keep order in the crowd.

Gen Querol said they the PNP was never invited to the emergency meeting by the organizers, so they did not act upon the potential disaster.  Why did that stop them now but not when Guingona and company held their "prayer rallies" before?  The opposition never even invited them or asked for their assistance in the first place.  Both have public safety issues interests involved.  The only difference I could see is - there is a political interest involved in the other crowd gathering but not in Willy’s show. 

The street is a public domain and I think ABS-CBN has no right to order people to get out of it, only the state has that police power, and the PNP did not exercised that power on that occasion. The police are trying to tell the public that ABS-CBN is in charge of public safety and order, and they would have only acted if ABS-CBN told them to do so, that’s why they did not lift a finger even when there was a looming huge tragedy waiting to happen.  That sounds BS to me.

[Excalibur]

The reason this happens again and again is nobody really gets penalized for what they did especially if they are big corporations or rich people.In Philippine history only a handful of prosecutions were made against people in power or who have the money.Examples had to be made from time to time to fool the public in to thinking the justice system works. But in reality it is the poor people who get screwed.People don't follow the rules here because most of the time they can get away with it, and this includes the not so fortunate.You will see most of the pinoys obeying the laws and acting with a sense of responsibility abroad but not when they are back home.

Let us face it, Filipinos have very short memory.What is in the headlines now will just be idle talk next week.What I'm waiting for now is President Estrada to be pardoned and run again for office.They sure are taking their time there.

Hopefully they make an example of this and justice be served so that future accidents like this may be avoided.Prosecute them to the full capacity of the law and retribution be brought to those who lost a family member in the tragedy.

BINGO!

[Ice Storm]

That's why I'm hoping the victims would wisen up and sue the pants off ABS-CBN. Money is the only language these media maniacs know.

[Excalibur]

The only difference I could see is - there is a political interest involved in the other crowd gathering but not in Willy’s show. 

good point! nice analysis!

The street is a public domain and I think ABS-CBN has no right to order people to get out of it, only the state has that police power, and the PNP did not exercised that power on that occasion. The police are trying to tell the public that ABS-CBN is in charge of public safety and order, and they would have only acted if ABS-CBN told them to do so, that’s why they did not lift a finger even when there was a looming huge tragedy waiting to happen.  That sounds BS to me.

but the problem is, abs was the one who persuaded the public to go to a certain location.
it only makes sense that they should also be the one to persuade the public to leave the location.
(which they did after the tragedy happened and their loyal fans did follow them)

if abs knew there is danger looming,
why did'nt they announced on air that the venue can not accommodate additional people?
they had the chance to do it on their late evening report and at the ultra vicinity.
they could have definitely helped control the swelling of the crowd.

i hope this tragedy will make abs better in terms of planning their activities.
was abs negligent? (maybe) the court will decide this.

again, kapuso or kapamilya, nobody wanted this to happen.

[Mr. Big Boy]

good point! nice analysis!

but the problem is, abs was the one who persuaded the public to go to a certain location.
it only makes sense that they should also be the one to persuade the public to leave the location.
(which they did after the tragedy happened and their loyal fans did follow them)

if abs knew there is danger looming,
why did'nt they announced on air that the venue can not accommodate additional people?
they had the chance to do it on their late evening report and at the ultra vicinity.
they could have definitely helped control the swelling of the crowd.

Events like this are not unique to ABS-CBN.  We see crowd like this all the time, in concerts, TV shows, rallies etc.   Organizers of big events always use something to entice big crowds to converge to an event.   It was only unfortunate that in this ABS-CBN's event the different ingredients for the recipe for disaster also converged with the crowd.

We can't just trust or put private corporations or organizations in charge with public safety, that is not a sound policy.  First of all, corporations like ABS-CBN do not have the expertise to handle matters like this, that's why we have a government that should regulate and police events like this.  The police should have known better, simply because that’s their primary job & purpose in the first place.

If ABS-CBN did follow every governmental regulations and rules in conducting this event and inspite of it this still happened, then I think there’s something wrong with the regulations to begin with.  Again the bulk of responsibility will still go down to the government.  Why did the structural design flaws in ULTRA have gone uncorrected for so long and why did the City Engineers approve the design in the first place?  Why did the Department of Trade and Industry or the proper agency approved the mechanics and promo of WOWOWEE if it is detrimental to public interest?  Why didn’t the police intervened when it is their inherent task to prevent things like this from happening.

To me, if we’re just gonna blame ABS-CBN for this tragedy then this is bound to happen all over again, just like how the fluvial procession tragedy repeated itself.  If the government can raise tax to the hilt no matter how hard it is for ordinary people then why can’t they intervene to a private affair if people’s lives are at stake?

[everythingyouwant]

ABS-CBN should be solely blamed!not the police whom they are now trying very hard to blame,not that they don't have the media power(hahaha).
Anyway,why would the police extend assistance to a private gathering?!why would i let my taxpayer money paying the salaries of these policemen that you are trying to point your fingers on now,para lang mabantayan ang isang pribadong kumpayang may promo?!effing nah!

fact is,and time and again,di na kailangan ng batas ng guilt beyond reasonable doubt when it comes to negligence,it only takes preponderance of evidence.if a given organizer could have prevented an unfortunate evnt BUT they did not do anything about it,bagkus they encourage it,ipagmamalaki sana nila that they were very successful what with the crowd,when it all went wrong because of lack of foresight,biglang iiwanan ang mga tao sa kangkungan at maninisi ng ibang tao \pa.its a case of pointing fingers at everyone else,pero yun pala nakaturo sayo lahat,dahil kaw naman talaga may kasalanan.

bottomline,people died,make that poor people died without any sense  at all.they were just enticed by a tv network's show who is trying too hard to be on top and at their expense,they've lost their lives.

Again,i repeat,alam ko mentality nitong mga tv production staff na mga to,all they want is ratings.dahil gusto nilang makunan ng may pandemonium,yes,they wanted a pandemonium,it has come to that point,their greediness has come to that point,e they got a tragedy instead.di ba pinapalabas pa sa tv patrol how happy they were of the jampacked crowd days before,they were proud of it,they wanted pandemonium para maganda ang dating,para sabihin at ipagbandohanan na "dinumog and wowowee sa ultra" or "wowowwee no. 1"!now,with that greediness,mapasayo man ang mundo,sinusunog naman ang kaluluwa nyo sa impyerno.

and this ABS-CBN is continuing without remorse,it has not even at a single moment,out of respect for the 74 souls,the cancellation of that show,even a symbolic or token one,like palitan man lang ang title ng show,kahit anjan pa lahat ng "guilty" staff basta may gawin sila na hindi magleleave ng bad taste in the mouth,for starters,some remorse,esp. to their executives also.

sabagay,the lopez family esp. the children,except gina lopez,malayong malayo sa kanilang mapagkawanggawang ama,i bet he is turning in his grave right now,if he could only see what his chair son is doing.di ba ang meralco has been asked for a refund before,and lately meron ding nagtaas sila pero naoverturn ng supreme court,ibig sabihin they have a penchant for breaking the law,without remorse.

[Chito C.]

The fact is, ABS-CBN, being obsessed with overtaking eat bulaga in the ratings, by promising poor people with lots of prizes, did not provide more on security and safety measures. Telling us that they wanted to help the poor by giving lots of prizes is a load of crap. Pera lang lahat yan.

[Blu-Ray]

Wala kwenta security, kahit pa may contingency plan hindi pa rin magiging maayos ang lahat kc isa lang ang kalaban:

DISIPLINA

Kahit libo libo security ang nadeploy, wala kwenta yan. Lalu na pag pera ang pinaguusapan.

[allanmandy]

I think some of you are misinformed.

Tina Monzon Palma, announced that no funds will be taken from the ABS-CBN Foundation. The expenses that the network will incur from the tragedy will be shouldered by the network itself, not its foundations. She did say that the ABS-CBN Foundation volunteers' services will be employed because only they have the expertise in relief and social work. She also said that while they are not soliciting donations (as there are rumors that claim that the "Alay Sa Kapamilya" special which temporarily replace "Wowowee" is a fundraising telethon), they won't turn away any kind of help that private citizens want to extend.

[jekoy]

joey de leon vehemently denied the so-called jokes that he made re the stampede in star talk today. he was angry and was crying his heart out. i, too, never believed it. alam naman ni joey kung kailan dapat magbiro at kung kailan dapat tumahimik...

[indie boi]

I think some of you are misinformed.

Tina Monzon Palma, announced that no funds will be taken from the ABS-CBN Foundation. The expenses that the network will incur from the tragedy will be shouldered by the network itself, not its foundations. She did say that the ABS-CBN Foundation volunteers' services will be employed because only they have the expertise in relief and social work. She also said that while they are not soliciting donations (as there are rumors that claim that the "Alay Sa Kapamilya" special which temporarily replace "Wowowee" is a fundraising telethon), they won't turn away any kind of help that private citizens want to extend.

Then she just clarified a statement that Gabby Lopez himself issued on the day of the tragedy.

Actually, my wife has already mentioned this to me last night. She also said that ABS-CBN will devise a plan wherein the help they will extend to the victims will go beyond just monetary assistance. The master plan is to have ABS-CBN employees adopt a family. They will serve as big brothers or big sisters who will oversee the welfare of the family for the succeeding years. they also plan to make this a tradition, wherein, every year, they will fulfill the dreams of 72 people or families -- the number of victims that died last saturday.

If they can do this without a glitch then this could well prove to be a PR masterstroke for the company.

[munky]

We all know that Joey is very much against ABSCBN, pero nung mapanood ko sya kanina sa tv, I believe na di nya talaga magagawa yung mga kumalat sa text messages.  Pero still, may parinig pa rin sya sa mga salita nya.

[Mr. Big Boy]

That's the biggest joke and the funniest I've seen from him.  Saan ka makakakita habang umiiyak tinuturo yung luha tapos sabay sabi ng sabi, "totoo ito hindi ito fake, kagaya ng iba". lol

That's the most terrible acting I ever saw, worst than Willie's crying routine.

[Mr. Big Boy]

joey de leon vehemently denied the so-called jokes that he made re the stampede in star talk today. he was angry and was crying his heart out. i, too, never believed it. alam naman ni joey kung kailan dapat magbiro at kung kailan dapat tumahimik...

Well I guess everybody who saw it is a liar then and Joey who is known for his arrogance and rudeness suddenly is a saint.  Even Swarding said it on-air and was even published in the papers that he clearly saw Joey do what he did, the one he's denying now.  Now it's Joey's word against another gay personality Tita Swarding, sabunutan na lang sila. lol  

[oweidah]

cant help but wonder, pasig city drug bust, karma ni meyor at chief of police, nagkataon lang or.......?
joey and willie dapat magsama...nakakasuka ang drama nila pag-iyak  :'( :'( :'(

[Agent Smith]

helo there,

Wow! matagal din hindi ako nag rereply dito,well para sa akin eh! na karma na ang mga lopez at kung hindi ba

gutom sa ratings gusto nilang talunin ang eat bulaga  ayan! sumabog sa mukha nila,buti nga

[Excalibur]

We can't just trust or put private corporations or organizations in charge with public safety, that is not a sound policy.  First of all, corporations like ABS-CBN do not have the expertise to handle matters like this, that's why we have a government that should regulate and police events like this.  The police should have known better, simply because that’s their primary job & purpose in the first place.

then abs should have hired experts who know how to manage these things.
i believe matatalino naman ang management team ng abs.
unfortunately, they hired someone who made a tragic miscalculation.

If ABS-CBN did follow every governmental regulations and rules in conducting this event and inspite of it this still happened, then I think there’s something wrong with the regulations to begin with.  Again the bulk of responsibility will still go down to the government. 

well, that is a theory.

anyway, of course the police is able to handle crowd control.
but then again, this is a private event so the police should only be a supporting force.
(as justified by everythingyouwant dahil taxpayers money ang ginamit for crowd control for a private event)

a case in point:
by observing the luneta gatherings for private religious activities,
these religious organizations do contact the police for assistance
but the majority of their personnel for crowd control were from with the organizers.
they assign some of their members to be traffic enforcers and sheriffs.

Why did the structural design flaws in ULTRA have gone uncorrected for so long and why did the City Engineers approve the design in the first place?  Why did the Department of Trade and Industry or the proper agency approved the mechanics and promo of WOWOWEE if it is detrimental to public interest? 

then abs should act against ultra for this specific case only (design flaws).
if they are convinced with their evidence against ultra, then they could lead in suing ultra.

DTI will only intervene if the mechanics of the promo are suspected to be deceptive or illegal in nature.
they are not tasked to predict if a stampede will happen.

Why didn’t the police intervened when it is their inherent task to prevent things like this from happening.

To me, if we’re just gonna blame ABS-CBN for this tragedy then this is bound to happen all over again, just like how the fluvial procession tragedy repeated itself.  If the government can raise tax to the hilt no matter how hard it is for ordinary people then why can’t they intervene to a private affair if people’s lives are at stake?

i think what you are saying will hold if the private affair in question is suspected to be:
1. involved in a criminal activity, or
2. a threat to the national security.

however, the two reasons stated does not apply to the wowowee gathering.
therefore, the police does not have the right reason to "intervene" in the wowowee gathering.
 
also, wouldn't it be wrong kung ipinadisperse ng police ang crowd because they see a possible stampede?
hindi ba magagalit ang organizers?

[JdelaCruz]

i think what you are saying will hold if the private affair in question is suspected to be:
1. involved in a criminal activity, or
2. a threat to the national security.

however, the two reasons stated does not apply to the wowowee gathering.
therefore, the police does not have the right reason to "intervene" in the wowowee gathering.
 
also, wouldn't it be wrong kung ipinadisperse ng police ang crowd because they see a possible stampede?
hindi ba magagalit ang organizers?

What if there is obvious danger of injury to the public because of disorder, shouldn't the police step in and restore peace and order?

[jerix]

if abs knew there is danger looming,

Precisely! How could anyone predicted that? There is no historical basis that Pinoys will risk their lives just to get a ticket... thats the exact point in that situation.

[barrister]

That's right, bosing.

It's easy to say what ABS should have done  --  now that a stampede has already claimed many lives.  Did you hear anyone say anything before it happened? 

You know what they say about 20/20 hindsight:  "Everyone's a genius after the fact".

[uebetan12]

ang balita ko,yung isang dancer ng wowowee, dahil sa nawalan ng trabaho,eh pick up girl na ngayon sa me padis point morato

[Agent Smith]

sana hindi na nila binalik ang kawowowee just to remind us na meron isang show na pumatay sa mahigit 70 katao,abs should be ashemed to the victims hindi pa nila nabibigyan ng katarunga ang pagkamatay nila hetot nag shohow na sila mahiya sila,sana nga matangal na ang show na yan at pati na si willie.