Author Topic: Speakers for Orchestral Works?  (Read 1662 times)

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Offline TonyC

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Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« on: Jul 20, 2006 at 04:44 PM »
Hi,

Just would like to get opinions....are book shelf speakers destined not to reproduce those big orchestral works and that only floorstanding speakers are up to the task, assuming all electronics are the same and that both speaker types are of the same quality???

Offline qguy

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 07:28 AM »
Hi Tony,

Some floorstanders are not even up to the task of producing those orchestral spectaculars. To answer your question YES, bookshelves and even some floorstanders has its limitations.

Offline RU9

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 08:07 AM »
My opinion, size of the room matters. a mordaunt-short ad recommends a  bookshelf type for a smaller room while the floorstander of the same series are for a bigger room. Although the floorstander can  go a lot lower.   

Offline TonyC

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #3 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 08:36 AM »
Thanks guys....had the fortunate opportunity of listening to a high end store once, i couldn't remember all the names of the gears except that the amp used were Krell for the lows and Mcintosh for the highs using active cross-overs, the speakers were gigantic (forgot the name)...the sales guy obliged us to play the CD we had brought along...wow, i think that's the first and last time i'll be able to experience literally seeing through the holographic stage of each section of the orchestra...first time i was really moved by the music.

The above gears i mentioned cost in the millions already and i was just wondering if given the proper electronics and room treatments, can a bookshelf or the horn types fostex give a semblance of the orchestral event. :)

Offline qguy

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #4 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 09:30 AM »
With a good bookshelves and proper room treatment, you can get that layering / holographic effect.. but not the low end grunt of which only large systems can accomplish

Offline TonyC

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #5 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 09:36 AM »
..thanks qguy...totally agree on the room treatment...cheers :)

Offline aHobbit

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #6 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 10:58 AM »
THe thing that keeps me from considering fostex is that a lot of DIYErs noted that full range is also not up to task in the orchestra - I need to listen to one (time limits me). But in a horn, I did not read so many feedback to report a horn playing orchestra.

Even let say home treatment have been attended to, most DIYers agree - the only way to recreate the 'great sound' is by adhering to law of physics - that is ... go BIG.

The rest of the comments are correct ... even some floorstanders are not up to ...

I know handyman has FE207 in voight pipe, maybe he can give us his listening impressions on this.

I have a Pioneer B20 full range, and still contemplating to build the BIB (folded horn type) and experience how orchestra behave in them. As in not  contented with it, am also dreaming of a pair of the d' apolito config of 2 coral 10incher and prove the physic theories in sound repro. Have to haggle my wife for a precious space in the house  ;D

like you, I want to experience the enveloping sound of an orchestral piece. But somehow I got the semblance of the sound when there have been presentation in The Podium Hall of ballet exercises at the back of Megamall. The sound tech seemed to hit a good combi - and the whole area  is filled with mesmerizing sound of symphonies - that made me look back and stop and listen for a while as long as it lasts.
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Offline TonyC

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 11:15 AM »
Thanks Ahobbit...if not for the menacing size of the voights, i think basing from what i read over at wiredstate, the Voights might be a good contender for this type of music. :)

Offline Jagner

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #8 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 12:24 PM »
Orchestra music is quite hard to produce.  If you want to hear the orchestra as it is, you need space for your speakers to breathe; and your speakers should have the adequate frequency response to handle  the music. 

For single full-range drivers, the best would be a combination of front load and rear load configuration.  a combination of full-range drivers, configured as an array, may also work, but then again, the problem would be space to accomodate the speaker array.

Cheers.

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #9 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 12:59 PM »
Thanks guys....had the fortunate opportunity of listening to a high end store once, i couldn't remember all the names of the gears except that the amp used were Krell for the lows and Mcintosh for the highs using active cross-overs, the speakers were gigantic (forgot the name)...the sales guy obliged us to play the CD we had brought along...wow, i think that's the first and last time i'll be able to experience literally seeing through the holographic stage of each section of the orchestra...first time i was really moved by the music.

The above gears i mentioned cost in the millions already and i was just wondering if given the proper electronics and room treatments, can a bookshelf or the horn types fostex give a semblance of the orchestral event. :)

You must have listened at Listening In Style Shangri-la Edsa with those towering Genesis speakers costing around 2M just for speakers alone.   ;D

It really depends on how powerful the sounds you want at home.  Definitely a full 70 man orchestra will sound thunderous especially if you want to recreate the 120db sound pressure levels received by the conductor at the podium.  Not to mention the addition of a 100-strong choir performing Beethoven's last movement in his 9th symphny.  Don't expect most entry and mid-priced commercial amps and speakers to recreate that accurately at home. Whether bookshelf or floorstanders.  At low to moderate listening volumes, maybe.  But not podium strength.  Or even first row concert hall strength.  They'll just fall apart, so to speak.  ;D

Trios, quartets, quintets in Jazz and most pop ensemble music with just drums, guitars, piano, bass, a couple of wind instruments are relatively easy to capture and reproduce.  But for large orchestral music spread accross a wide stage with more than 50 similar and different instruments, recording studios have been racking their brains trying to arrive at the best microphone placements and mixing solutions to capture and downmix them into a pathetic 2-channel master and still expect them to sound great on typical household playback appliances. The best recordings do give some goosebumps from time to time on a great playback system.

I guess your best bet is really to go BIG and get some tower speakers with multiple drivers or driver arrays as they are called.  Or those tall panel speakers from Martin Logan and Magnepan.   Multiple drivers ensure multiple engines that should be able to drive complex frequencies more effortlessly.  But they have inherent design problems that if not overcome, can muddle the sound.  Their crossover networks are often more complex with steep slopes, and again, if not properly designed, can introduce more phase alignment problems and distortions.   And overcoming these design constraints will often make them expensive, in addition to those multiple drivers and heavy cabinetry.  And definitely you would need oodles of brute RMS power or a very sensitive set of speakers.   If you like large orchestral works to sound convincing at podium or first row strength, short of a major DIY endeavor, you may have little choices.   ;D

If you have an SACD or DVD-A player, you may want to consider 5.1 channels of large orchestral works.  In my experience, the DVD-A mix of the Beethoven cycle from Daniel Barrenboim does give justice to the pieces though I still prefer some Karajan readings in plain stereo.  There have been great recordings in the 4-channel format made in the mid-70s that were transcribed into SACD.  Haven't heard them, but they should sound less muddled at loud volumes.  In theory, the more dedicated channels there are for a set of instruments, the less intermodulation distortion products and thus you get better detailing and less muddling.    Just my thoughts.



« Last Edit: Jul 21, 2006 at 01:31 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline sandawa

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Re: Speakers for Orchestral Works?
« Reply #10 on: Jul 21, 2006 at 01:20 PM »
i'm fond of listening to chamber music as well as choral pieces. also classic '70s and '80s rock. to my ears, only big speakers and high-wattage amps could give justice to those types of music. my flagship system comprises an 80-kg. JBL 4430 studio monitor. the 12X12 biradial horn is driven by a Sansui Alpha 907 iMos Limited (100wpc/8 ohms) and the 15-inch woofer driven by another Sansui Alpha 907 (160wpc/8 ohms).
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