Author Topic: Denon A/V Receivers (Read 362015 times)

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2070 on:** Oct 26, 2013 at 10:03 AM »

Quote from: nogie on Oct 26, 2013 at 09:53 AM

I blind auditioned the 7008 and x4000 using klipsch f30 fs speakers in stereo mode. I ask a geek squad associate to help me in the audition. Nakatalikod ako at nakablindfold....Parehas lang ang tunog.

Hahaha!

Thanks for the info sir Nogie.
Sarap talaga dyan place mo ngayon, readily available magagandang gears para maaudition agad

Quote from: [r0n1n] on Oct 26, 2013 at 09:58 AM

Pio pala yung sa yo! Tsuri naman brader pero tingin ko kayang kaya mo naman yan bilhin

Naku naubos na sa subwoofer ang budget brader

nogie · « **Reply #2071 on:** Oct 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM »

Quote from: ♡ Louie_18™ ✌ on Oct 26, 2013 at 10:03 AM

Hahaha!
Thanks for the info sir Nogie.
Sarap talaga dyan place mo ngayon, readily available magagandang gears para maaudition agad

Ako nag-u-unbox pag me bagong dating at libre din audition kasi duon ako naassign sa TV at Home Theaters.

Kaya lang me reklamo sa akin Manager ko. Mula daw dumating ako humina na raw sales nila sa # 1 selling nila na Bose Cinemate 1 at sobrang taas daw sales nila ng AVR at Speakers. Pero mas masaya naman manager kasi malaki ang margins sa speakers kesa sa overprice na Bose.

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2072 on:** Oct 26, 2013 at 01:19 PM »

Quote from: nogie on Oct 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM

Ako nag-u-unbox pag me bagong dating at libre din audition kasi duon ako naassign sa TV at Home Theaters.

Kaya lang me reklamo sa akin Manager ko. Mula daw dumating ako humina na raw sales nila sa # 1 selling nila na Bose Cinemate 1 at sobrang taas daw sales nila ng AVR at Speakers. Pero mas masaya naman manager kasi malaki ang margins sa speakers kesa sa overprice na Bose.

Hahaha! :-D
Malaki talaga tulong kapag knowledgeable ang Sales Person sa products he's selling.
Magbebenefit ang customers... Saka definitely namang mas maraming magandang cheaper alternative to Bose

kokok · « **Reply #2073 on:** Oct 26, 2013 at 10:03 PM »

Quote from: crazy_boy on Oct 10, 2013 at 09:51 PM

Mga sir, would like to get your opinions.

Good match ba ang denon1513 with infinity primus 363 speakers?

I used to power the 363 with denon 1713. Ok naman ang tunog it's not bright. and it's not warm. nasa gitna lang.

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2074 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 09:50 AM »

hi,

inquire ko lang, my friend auditioned last weekend onkyo sr313 and denon 1713 and ang comment niya eh masyadong mahina daw yung sounds using denon versus onkyo on a wharf 9.1 speaker set. target ko pa naman yung 1713, talaga bang normal lang yung ganung comparison between onkyo and denon or may possibility na mali lang setup?

thanks!

mykel18 · « **Reply #2075 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 10:24 AM »

Wharf needs more power to sing. Suggest you try a more powerful receiver than the 1713.

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2076 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 10:37 AM »

^i checked onkyo 313's specs and it was 100watts @ 6ohms while denon 1713 is 80watts @ 8ohms, so that difference REALLY matter with their sounds? kala ko pa naman mas angat na si 1713 kay 313.

mykel18 · « **Reply #2077 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 10:44 AM »

Quote from: churchovdeath on Oct 29, 2013 at 10:37 AM

^i checked onkyo 313's specs and it was 100watts @ 6ohms while denon 1713 is 80watts @ 8ohms, so that difference REALLY matter with their sounds? kala ko pa naman mas angat na si 1713 kay 313.

Both may output roughly the same at 6ohms. If you do play louder, then choose a more powerful receiver than the 2.

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2078 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 11:03 AM »

^first AVR ko kasi if ever kaya mga entry levels lang muna tinitingnan ko, taka lang ako bakit ganun naging scenario given na same sila halos ng output. maliit lang naman yung room namin kaya entry level muna

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2079 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM »

Quote from: churchovdeath on Oct 29, 2013 at 11:03 AM

^first AVR ko kasi if ever kaya mga entry levels lang muna tinitingnan ko, taka lang ako bakit ganun naging scenario given na same sila halos ng output. maliit lang naman yung room namin kaya entry level muna

Another thing that might affect sound quality is the inherent sound character of different AVRs.
Denon AVRs tend to sound more musical and refined which you might perceive as "mahina"
Consider also Yamaha and Pioneer to power your Wharfs.

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2080 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 04:22 PM »

heto reply nung seller regarding sa bakit mahina yung na-test na denon 1713 sa wharf 9.1

Quote

The Wharfedale has high sensitivity; they are not power hungry. The problem is with the receiver that cannot release full dynamics because of high impedance output.

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2081 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 04:41 PM »

Quote from: churchovdeath on Oct 29, 2013 at 04:22 PM

heto reply nung seller regarding sa bakit mahina yung na-test na denon 1713 sa wharf 9.1

According to Wharfedale website, the 9.1 has a sensitivity of 86db @ 6-ohms...
Hmmm, I think it really needs power more than those entry level receivers you mentioned

High sensitivity speakers are those around 90db and above @ 8-ohms...

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2082 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 04:45 PM »

^pero na-drive siya ni onkyo 313?

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2083 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 04:52 PM »

Quote from: churchovdeath on Oct 29, 2013 at 04:45 PM

^pero na-drive siya ni onkyo 313?

Na-drive, but to the speakers full potential ba?

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2084 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 05:02 PM »

^i dont know if full potential but enough for my friend to buy the onkyo+wharf combo since sabi niya nasa 50% palang volume eh ramdam na nya, while denon @ 70% eh mahina pa din.

sensya na sir dami ko tanong, di ko lang talaga ma-gets na yung target ko sanang AVR eh "mahina" pala and/or cant drive the entry level speakers din?

heto pala yung speaker set, diamon 9 pala not 9.1 (iba ata yun)

Quote

Diamond 9
BASS 4
TWEETER 25mm tex
POWER 15-75W
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 6ohm
SENSITIVITY 86dB
FREQUENCY 60-24k @ -6dB
CROSSOVER 2.2k
FREQUENCY FB 55Hz
DIMENSIONS 145x236x165
Diamond 9.SR
BASS 4
TWEETER 25mm tex
POWER 10-60W
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 6ohm
SENSITIVITY 88dB
FREQUENCY 70-24k @ -6dB
CROSSOVER 2.2k
FREQUENCY FB 70Hz
DIMENSIONS 185x236x117
Diamond 9.CC
BASS 4
TWEETER 25mm tex
POWER 15-120W
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 6ohm
SENSITIVITY 88dB
FREQUENCY 80-24k @ -6dB
CROSSOVER 2.8k
FREQUENCY FB 70kHz
DIMENSIONS 330x120x130(height on spike & plinth 128)
Diamond 9 SW100
Diameter 200mm
Power Handling 100 Watss Rms
Freq 35-85 Hz

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2085 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 05:06 PM »

^
Have you bought the Whafedales already?
If you are set in getting the Denon AVR, I suggest listening to other easy to drive speakers like Polk Audio TSx series...

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2086 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 05:38 PM »

^not yet, plano ko bilhin eh polk speakers but the Tsi series only. i guess i have to audition myself, na-curious lang talaga ko sa impression ng friend ko kay denon

♡ lvcdg23™ ✌ · « **Reply #2087 on:** Oct 29, 2013 at 08:57 PM »

Quote from: churchovdeath on Oct 29, 2013 at 05:38 PM

^not yet, plano ko bilhin eh polk speakers but the Tsi series only. i guess i have to audition myself, na-curious lang talaga ko sa impression ng friend ko kay denon

Polk Audio and Denon blends well... I tried Denon and RTi series before ang they're very good.
I think the TSi series is already replaced by the TSx series...

churchovdeath · « **Reply #2088 on:** Oct 30, 2013 at 08:08 AM »

^thanks louie for patiently answering my queries!

dm1179 · « **Reply #2089 on:** Nov 04, 2013 at 03:16 PM »

good reference for would-be Denon buyers..

The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq

What the heck is the "E Series" and "X Series"

Denon has changed their model naming nomenclature, and the new "E Series" models have effectively replaced the lower level (non CI) models from the Denon consumer level receiver lineup. The E-Series features 2-year warranties, with all but the basic E-200 model including Audyssey MultEQ calibration and an ethernet port for network access.

The "X Series" replaced the higher level (CI) models in Denon's receiver lineup; all of these models feature a 3-year warranty, with more advanced Audyssey calibration (XT in the first three models, and XT32 in the X4000) and expanding featuresets for more flexible custom integration and multizone functionality.

E Series Models

The lower level "E Series" models feature basic Audyssey MultEQ calibration and offer 2-year warranties. The E200 should be skipped for any serious home theater setup, as it lacks MultEQ, networking, and has lower build quality.

AVR-1513 >> AVR-E200 ($249 msrp)
AVR-1613 >> AVR-E300 ($399 msrp)
AVR-1913 >> AVR-E400 ($599 msrp)

X-Series Models

The "X Series" lineup replaces what was formerly known as the "CI" model lineup. These are distinguished from the lower level "consumer" models with more advanced features making them more suited to custom install setups (the original meaning of the former "CI" designation). In addition to features like RS-232 serial control, more flexible multizone options, and 12v triggers, all of the X Series models utilize more advanced versions of Audyssey MultEQ calibration -- the "XT" version for the X1000, X2000, and X3000, and the most advanced XT32 calibration on the X4000. Additionally, all of the X Series models feature a 3-year manufacturer warranty instead of just 2 years on the E Series... and of course detachable power cords (woot!).

AVR-1713 >> AVR-X1000 ($449 msrp)
AVR-2113CI >> AVR-X2000 ($649 msrp)
AVR-2313CI >> AVR-X3000 ($899 msrp)
AVR-3313CI >> AVR-X4000 ($1,299 msrp)

dm1179 · « **Reply #2090 on:** Nov 04, 2013 at 03:22 PM »

AVR-1713 >> AVR-X1000 ($449 msrp)

The X1000 is the "entry level" 5.1 model in the X Series INCommand lineup. It is essentially a "souped up" X Series version of the E300. While it is only a 5.1 channel receiver, it differs from the E Series models by offering the more advanced XT version of Audyssey MultEQ calibration, a 3rd year of warranty, and pre-outs for expanding to a second zone (with the addition of an external amp). While it doesn't have analog>digital video conversion or scaling, it should provide excellent sound quality and plenty of HDMI inputs. If you are interested in maximizing sound quality on a budget, and are only running a 5ch setup with a few HDMI sources, this is the receiver for you.

Key features and upgrades over the E300:

* 5 channels of amplification rated at 80 watts/ch into 8 ohms
* 3-year warranty instead of only 2 on the E Series
* One more rear HDMI input, for a total of 6 (5 rear / 1 front)
* Remote IR Input port for connecting an IR repeater
* Regular speaker binding posts instead of the bare-wire-only "easy connect" speaker posts on the E Series
* Audyssey MultEQ XT calibration instead of regular MultEQ
* Zone 2 functionality via RCA pre-outs
--- Requires the addition of an external amp to power Zone 2 speakers
--- Unlike the 1713 it replaces, Zone 2 pre-outs support variable volume control in addition to fixed volume output
--- All Zone Stereo feature will play any digital source in both zones simultaneously

dm1179 · « **Reply #2091 on:** Nov 04, 2013 at 03:23 PM »

AVR-2113CI >> AVR-X2000 ($649 msrp)

The X2000 is basically the X Series version of the E400 -- the lowest level model in the X Series with full 7ch capability. For most folks looking for the best value 7ch model, it will be a no-brainer to go with the X2000 over the E400 as long as the street price difference is less than 100 bucks. The jump from regular MultEQ to XT, plus the third year of warranty, are alone worth the price difference. You also get enhanced multizone flexibility and some additional "custom integration" options with RS-232 serial port and remote IR jacks.

Key upgrades over the X1000:

* 7 channels of amplification rated at 95 watts/ch into 8 ohms
* One more rear HDMI input, for a total of 7 (6 rear / 1 front)
* Two extra analog RCA audio inputs, including one dedicated "CD" input intended for an audio-only source
* Adds a component video input
* Removes composite video output, but not needed because....
* Video conversion of analog inputs to HDMI output
* Video scaling up to 4k resolution (and supports 4k passthrough)
* Web browser control officially supported, including SAVE/LOAD feature (note that this is only available with Internet Explorer!)
* Zone 2 functionality allows option of using Zone 2 pre-outs or internal amps via Amp Assign
--- Unlike the 2113CI it replaces, Zone 2 pre-outs support variable volume control in addition to fixed volume output
--- All Zone Stereo feature will play any digital source in both zones simultaneously
* RS-232 serial port and Remote IR In/Out jacks for custom integration flexibility

dm1179 · « **Reply #2092 on:** Nov 04, 2013 at 03:25 PM »

AVR-2313CI >> AVR-X3000 ($899 msrp)

The X3000 replaces the 2313CI as the first step-up model to the "mid level" Denon receivers. The X3000 and its big brother the X4000 are built on a physically larger chassis than the lower level models, with upgraded amp section and power supply. The X3000 is 2 inches deeper than the X2000, and about 3 lbs heavier. Additionally, it features greatly expanded legacy connectivity options, and starts incorporating some of the higher end features of the X4000 (and 4520CI) like independent matrix HDMI output for another zone, Audyssey DSX, direct DSD support for SACD, etc. For most folks looking to step up from the X2000, it is probably worth it to jump all the way to the X4000 for the superior Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration and other upgraded features.

Key upgrades over the X2000:

* 7 channels of amplification rated at 105 watts/ch into 8 ohms
* Beefier power supply and about 3 lbs heavier than the X2000
* Increased connectivity:
-- Adds a 2nd Zone2 HDMI output which can play an independent HDMI source in another zone
-- One extra component video input (2 total)
-- One each extra digital optical and coaxial input (2 optical / 2 coax total)
-- One extra composite (RCA analog) audio and video input (5 audio and 3 video total)
-- Dual subwoofer outputs (internal y-splitter, they output an identical signal)
-- 12v trigger output
* Direct DSD support for SACD playback over HDMI
* HDMI InstaPrevue PiP technology
* Adds Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo:X for surround expansion (note that the X2000 can only do 7 channels max!!)
* Audyssey PRO cabable
* Enhanced Multizone functionality:
-- Matrix HDMI Zone2 output
-- Any digital audio (2.0 PCM only, but can be HDMI or SPDIF input) will play to Zone 2 independently
-- Expanded settings flexibility for Zone 2 speakers, including bass/treble control and stereo/mono option

dm1179 · « **Reply #2093 on:** Nov 04, 2013 at 03:27 PM »

AVR-3313CI >> AVR-X4000 ($1,299 msrp)

The X4000 is the king of the new Denon lineup, and Denon has really hit a home run with this product and its "everything and the kitchen sink" list of features. Most importantly, for the first time, Denon has let the state-of-the-art Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration trickle down below the 4xxx level models, including the SubEQ HT feature for improved dual sub calibration. Additionally, the X4000 takes another step forward from its 33xx model heritage by allowing expansion to a 9 channel system with the addition of external amplification. Plus it adds a 3rd zone, another HDMI output, additional legacy connectivity.... basically, other than the ability to run a complete 11 channel DSX/Neo:X setup, it has it all!

Key upgrades over the X3000:

* 7 channels of amplification rated at 125 watts/ch into 8 ohms
* Beefier power supply and about 4.5 lbs heavier than the X3000
* Brushed aluminum faceplate with drop-down door to hide front panel controls
* Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with SubEQ HT
* Audyssey LFC (low frequency containment) technology
* Adds the ability to run up to 9 channels simultaneously with the addition of an external amp
* Increased connectivity:
-- Adds a 3rd HDMI output, parallel for main zone (e.g. for connecting both a projector and a regular TV in the same room)
-- Adds a component video output (2 inputs / 1 output); output can be reassigned to Zone 2
-- Adds a composite video output (1 video, 2 analog RCA audio)
-- Speaker binding posts for all 11 possible channels (can connect 11 speakers, but only run 7 at once with internal amps)
-- Full pre-amplifier outputs for all 11.2 channels (can run up to 9 at once with at least 2 channels external amp)
-- DenonLink HD input for connection with compatible Denon universal players
-- Dedicated PHONO input with pre-amp stage built in
-- Dual 12v trigger outputs
* 3 Zones instead of 2
-- 3rd zone is stereo audio only (either with external amp or internal amp assignment)
-- 2nd zone can be HDMI output and/or stereo audio output

dm1179 · « **Reply #2094 on:** Nov 04, 2013 at 03:43 PM »

Quote

^i dont know if full potential but enough for my friend to buy the onkyo+wharf combo since sabi niya nasa 50% palang volume eh ramdam na nya, while denon @ 70% eh mahina pa din.

d. Master Volume Adjustment: Unlike perhaps your older receiver that was really loud at say 1/4 of the maximum master volume scale, Denon AVRs use a logarithmic scale and will require the volume turned to roughly 2/3 of the maximum for average volume levels. Denon AVRs have two volume scales, the default being "absolute" (0-98) and "relative" ( -79.5db to +18db), although note that the terms “relative” and “absolute” are no longer used in the XX13 and E/X manuals.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq#user_B4

Quote

^i checked onkyo 313's specs and it was 100watts @ 6ohms while denon 1713 is 80watts @ 8ohms, so that difference REALLY matter with their sounds? kala ko pa naman mas angat na si 1713 kay 313.

you're comparing different data points. here's the real score:

Onkyo SR-313: 100 W/ch (6ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, IEC)
Denon AVR-1713: 135 W/ch (6ohms, 1kHz, 1 Channel Driven, IEC)

always compare same parameters, i.e. 6ohms vs 6ohms, 8ohms vs 8ohms, 1ch vs 1ch, 2ch vs 2ch, 1kHz vs 1kHz, 20Hz-20kHz vs 20Hz-20kHz.

FYI. manufacturers usually use what gives the higher data for marketing purposes.

example, that 100 W/ch (6ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, IEC) will be roughly equivalent to 60-65W/ch (8ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, 2 Channels Driven).. but 100 W/ch sounds much better to consumers, doesn't it?