Topic: Recommend a Speaker

[IceTea]

Hi Sir Ricky,  Thank you for taking time to answer my inquiry.

    If I may answer, I think what matz is saying is instead of spending more money in buying a floorstanding speaker, you should just get a bookshelf (preferably a good one with atleast a min of 6" woofer) and used the difference in cost(savings) for  getting a powered sub whether it being a mid level or a budget sub. In ht, speakers having woofers not bigger than 8" will just be set to small anyways(avr speaker setting).And even if your main speakers has 8"woofers it would still not be better compared to subs having a 10" or 12" or more so 15" woofers esp in demanding explosion scenes.

Does this mean, in a sub-world, bigger is also better, given that specs are equivalent?  I may be pushing my luck here but, that's my main concern.  Those sub are so d**m big that it looks like a personal ref.  Isn't there a good sub that's small?.......and cheap?   

   Hirap talaga mag decide mga bros,But lesson I learned from this hobby is integrating your audio and video set-up sometimes is more costly than having separate set-ups for both needs. With separate set-ups you dont even need to compromise on qualities you'll need for each application If you are more into audio,try to have a set-up that will excel in audio, but if you're more into movies then I guess its only logical to have a set-up that will really please you everytime you watch a movie Ngayon ang problem is kung 50-50 na

I've been thinking about that too.  Is that the reason most 7.1 A/V receivers have a speaker-A and speaker-B for fronts?  Using 2-channels of speaker-B for floorstanders for audio and 5.1 for movies?  Tama po ba? 

[Philjonc]

The idea is to have 5 matching size speakers for HT, for seamless panning. It is the ideal.

See HT magazines installed by pro installers, they use bookshelf size/type speakers of identical sizes for all 5-7 speakers.

You are going to set it to SMALL setting on your receiver anyway, unless you have a 200w power amp (for clean power) and want to set your floorstanders to LARGE to rely on it for bass.

But for me, nothing beats a good powered sub. Thats why at the very least, if I had 60k budget and start my HT all over again. I will prioritize my sub, then get BS (instead of a FS) then the cheapest AVR with pre-outs I could get for future power amps.

Oh, and I will also follow Philjonc's advice to look at the B/sell section. 60k will go a long way if you dont mind pre-owned items.

Exactly the idea and design of BOSE, then those HTIB's, and now some well known speaker makers thought of designing their own satellite speakers like Atlantic Technology, ERA design, to name some. Just simply add a good sub. But, they are not cheap.

[ricky]

Hi Sir Ricky,  Thank you for taking time to answer my inquiry.

Does this mean, in a sub-world, bigger is also better, given that specs are equivalent?  I may be pushing my luck here but, that's my main concern.  Those sub are so d**m big that it looks like a personal ref.  Isn't there a good sub that's small?.......and cheap?   

I've been thinking about that too.  Is that the reason most 7.1 A/V receivers have a speaker-A and speaker-B for fronts?  Using 2-channels of speaker-B for floorstanders for audio and 5.1 for movies?  Tama po ba? 

Sadly Bigger is better is not always the case even in subs since it will really depend on the application. Also Good compact sized subs are expensive Velodynes are not that big but they are quite costly compared to budget subs. Before I was using a 10" sub since I use my system for audio and video,Its fast and tight but bitin sa video applications. So I upgraded to 12" and wow yung gapang although hindi ko sya gusto pang audio kasi nahuhuli yung response nya Kaya sabi ko its better to have separate set-ups na lang para no compromise

As for the speaker A-B options,Yes I believe this is the reason and also if incase you want to place additional speakers in another room, you can even without adding another set-up

[MAtZTER]

Yup, there's a thread here before about speaker's sensitivity and it's effect on your receiver, di ko lang mahanap... basta it's all about the heat issues of the receivers caused by some speakers with low impedance or set-ups with different impedance. I hope someone in this thread can technically explain this para sa ating mga hindi masyadong techie

Anyway, too much heat can damage your receiver bro, better safe than sorry

Lets try to be less techie below:

From what I know, receivers heat up when impedance is 4 ohms and below.  Receivers are made to drive 6 ohms and 8 ohms sensitivity.  Pero para mas timbre match, il just go with MA rears pag available na.  Naubusan kasi ako eh.  Tnx Reynold.

6 & 8 ohms are impedances. The lower the impedance, the higher the current you need, causing your receiver to heat up.

Receivers, with their limited space, limited heat dissipating capability & limited power supplies, cannot handle low impedances for long. At least, for the non 100+k flagship models.

Speaker's impedances are labeled "nominal" because that is not always their impedance, they dip a lot. Sometimes 4ohms or lower on demanding scenes or musical passages. A B&W speaker I researched lately dips down to 2.56 ohms!

Impedance mismatch is not really an issue as compared to timbre (pronounced "tam-ber") matching issue, w/c the audessy can now handle, but not 100% perfect of course.

Technically you can even use 4 ohm surrounds if your receiver is powerful enough, since surrounds dont sound off all the time.

[MAtZTER]

Hi sir Matzter,

Please share your experience..... Does this mean to save money, I should buy a good powered sub rather than those "budget" sub?  I believe you tried those "budget" sub too, which of those you liked best? 

Yes, I have tried DQ12, auditioned US audio, installed a Wharfe sub, etc. The entry levels were loud but not refined (except for the wharfe, w/c was refined but not loud, LOL). I got the loud+ refined on the mid level subs.

For me the subwoofer is the star of the HT. Sound wise (video is another matter), it will wow you or your guests more than the "details" or "surround action" first. So to me, buying a good refined sub is first in my priority list.

Next, I like to play my HT loud, so I will never buy a receiver with no pre outs (for flexibility of adding power amps in the future). And once you hear your setup with power amps, you will never go back to receiver power.

Anyway since you are new to the hobby, you may not notice what refined bass or distorted sound from speakers sound like so buying a lesser sub or amp may also suffice.

BUT IF YOU DO NOTICE (now or some day), thats where my money saving advice kicks in... at least you got a good sub already, plus the flexibility to go power amps. Time & money lost to upgrading is a b*tch  I should know, I've been there, done that (manymanymany times) 

So get it right the first time!

[MAtZTER]

I've been thinking about that too.  Is that the reason most 7.1 A/V receivers have a speaker-A and speaker-B for fronts?  Using 2-channels of speaker-B for floorstanders for audio and 5.1 for movies?  Tama po ba? 

One good use for speaker A & B IMO is to separate your audio & video speakers. you can use 5 bookshelf speakers for HT and  floorstanders for music on speaker B mode.

Why? There are laid back speakers (good for music) and forward sounding or wide dispersion speakers (good for HT). I do not like laid back explosions or forward sounding music! 

So 5.1 b/s size HT speakers & sub on speaker A and laid back musical floorstanders for speaker B. You can upgrade your audio speakers w/o worrying of how to dispose of your center channel!

I would highly recommend the $1,000 class receivers if you want to use them for music if you have no choice but to integrate your music & video setup in one.  With better budget & improved parts & power section, these babies do not disappoint in music (unless your speakers are hard to drive). I have used 4 of these class receivers from different brands (HK, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo) and I can attest to that.

Also, as ricky mentioned, I would attest also that separate audio setup is still best, if its possible. Non-flagship AV receivers are usually jack of all trades and cant compete with dedicated 2 channel setups made for music alone.

Just my thoughts.

[reynold]

Lets try to be less techie below:

6 & 8 ohms are impedances. The lower the impedance, the higher the current you need, causing your receiver to heat up.

Receivers, with their limited space, limited heat dissipating capability & limited power supplies, cannot handle low impedances for long. At least, for the non 100+k flagship models.

Speaker's impedances are labeled "nominal" because that is not always their impedance, they dip a lot. Sometimes 4ohms or lower on demanding scenes or musical passages. A B&W speaker I researched lately dips down to 2.56 ohms!

Impedance mismatch is not really an issue as compared to timbre (pronounced "tam-ber") matching issue, w/c the audessy can now handle, but not 100% perfect of course.

Technically you can even use 4 ohm surrounds if your receiver is powerful enough, since surrounds dont sound off all the time.

Many thanks sir Matz for this brief but straight to the point explanation. More power

[gallery]

I decided to replace my 5.1 speakers this year asap and was offered these set of B&W speakers. The price fits my budget but I was wondering if its worth every penny. Pls. feel free to comment or suggest other brands cz I want to have new set of speakers at least by next week.  Thanks

B&W 684 Front Speakers
B&W 686 Rear Speakers
B&W HTM62 Center Speakers
B&W ASW610XP Active Subwoofer

[Philjonc]

I decided to replace my 5.1 speakers this year asap and was offered these set of B&W speakers. The price fits my budget but I was wondering if its worth every penny. Pls. feel free to comment or suggest other brands cz I want to have new set of speakers at least by next week.  Thanks

B&W 684 Front Speakers
B&W 686 Rear Speakers
B&W HTM62 Center Speakers
B&W ASW610XP Active Subwoofer

wow, very nice budget you have there. also, a very good line-up of speakers. but dont forget you are always free to audition other brands at the same price range for your own actual comparison.

[av_phile1]

I decided to replace my 5.1 speakers this year asap and was offered these set of B&W speakers. The price fits my budget but I was wondering if its worth every penny. Pls. feel free to comment or suggest other brands cz I want to have new set of speakers at least by next week.  Thanks

B&W 684 Front Speakers
B&W 686 Rear Speakers
B&W HTM62 Center Speakers
B&W ASW610XP Active Subwoofer

Personally I consider the 600 series locally overpriced compared with others of the same performance. Except maybe for the subwoofer. Unless you consider their great aftersales service as part of that.    I suggest you go to the 800 series instead.  Even for just the fronts.  Also overpriced but I find their sonic definition better than the 600 series.  Just me 2 cents. 

BTW, what amps are you using for these?

[gallery]

Thanks for the replies...i am currently using an Onkyo TX-SR604 which I got in replace for my old Onkyo TX-DS575. I heard Onkyo goes well with B&W Speakers. Just to add,  my monitor is a Pioneer SD-533HD5 HDTV which is slightly used and had ever since i began this hobby 7 years ago. I have a Mordaunt Short MS907W Subs and Bose Acoustimas 10 Series II Speakers to go with it. I plan to replace most of them soon after i get a new set of speakers. Any suggestions on how i can improve my HT? Btw, what brand of speaker cables (amp to speakers) would you recommend also?

P.S. I recently got a BADA LB-5500 Line Conditioner since my friend was raving about how it improves SQ and PQ.

[kenkkk]

need advice :

my existing setup is B&W602s2 fronts lcr5 center and 501s2 surround... with onkyo 603 receiver and mk125 sub....
was thinking about upgrading 2 new front speakers.... either the FOCAL726V or the bnw 683/684... gawin ko syang front then yun 602 sa surround and 601 sa rear...
any advice? thanks

[gallery]

Whats the price difference between the BW 800's and the 600's?

[kenkkk]

wala na po sa budget yun B&W 800s eh hehehe 100plus k na ata yun

[av_phile1]

Whats the price difference between the BW 800's and the 600's?

It's basically thrice as much.  The cheapest 805 pictured above starts at £1600.00 new or about Php180T/pair locally presumably with taxes.  But I think Sound Dimension has it cheaper, if they have stock.  Alternately, there may be pre-owned ones at makati cinema square basement. 

You're good with the Onkyo 604 because it can drive down to 3 ohms at 225watt momentarily.  The BW speakers (whether 600, 700 or 800 series) are notorious for dipping that low at some frequencies below 200hz and many receivers just can't handle that well.   

[Philjonc]

the last pre-owned 805 i know were sold for 90k.
I believe a good power amp would do the job.

[reynold]

I believe a good power amp would do the job.

You are right bro, i heard these babies in action, and WOW!!!
Driven by a Yamaha DSP-A1, grabe ang ganda tumunog

[Lancito]

I am thinking of letting go of my 2-3 month old MA BR2 and BRLCR to upgrade to better speakers.  I am thinking of better sounding bookshelf speakers both for audio and HT.  Also considering durability since I want speakers for keeps.  Budget would probably be around 70K.  In my other thread, I said I like the EPOS M12.2 for my fronts but I don't think the center channel M8 is available locally. Any recommendations/suggestions?  Thanks.  Lance

[ricky]

I am thinking of letting go of my 2-3 month old MA BR2 and BRLCR to upgrade to better speakers.  I am thinking of better sounding bookshelf speakers both for audio and HT.  Also considering durability since I want speakers for keeps.  Budget would probably be around 70K.  In my other thread, I said I like the EPOS M12.2 for my fronts but I don't think the center channel M8 is available locally. Any recommendations/suggestions?  Thanks.  Lance

You might want to consider dynaudio audience series

[Lancito]

You might want to consider dynaudio audience series

Thanks Ricky but at 4Ohms, my Denon 2808 will have a hard time driving Dynes.  Good speaker selection but I will be needing power amps pa.  I only want to use my receiver's power.

[karce]

sir mas high-end dyns kaysa epos kaya di siguro apples to apples yun if compared.  sonically, kailangan mo pakingan. A-B mo. Kung dyns just be prepared to invest sa high power tube amp para lumabas ang potential nya.

Sa tube at sa price point ng epos marami naman dyan options.  try mo muna bago ka mag decide.

[Lancito]

sir mas high-end dyns kaysa epos kaya di siguro apples to apples yun if compared.  sonically, kailangan mo pakingan. A-B mo. Kung dyns just be prepared to invest sa high power tube amp para lumabas ang potential nya.

Sa tube at sa price point ng epos marami naman dyan options.  try mo muna bago ka mag decide.

Oo nga dami nagsasabi to audition other speakers.  Thats my direction din naman.  Thanks Karce!

[gallery]

Anyway, i just got these set of B&W's. Hope it exceeds my expectations...
Fronts: B&W 683
Rears:  B&W 686
Center: B&W HTM61
Subs:   B&W ASW610

[Lancito]

Anyway, i just got these set of B&W's. Hope it exceeds my expectations...
Fronts: B&W 683
Rears:  B&W 686
Center: B&W HTM61
Subs:   B&W ASW610

Could you PM me price of each and where you bought them? tnx.

[av_phile1]

Non-flagship AV receivers are usually jack of all trades and cant compete with dedicated 2 channel setups made for music alone.

Receivers are always jacks of all trades, whether entry or flagship.  One is just a better jack than the other. 

[synchro_01]

It's basically thrice as much.  The cheapest 805 pictured above starts at £1600.00 new or about Php180T/pair locally presumably with taxes.  But I think Sound Dimension has it cheaper, if they have stock.  Alternately, there may be pre-owned ones at makati cinema square basement. 

You're good with the Onkyo 604 because it can drive down to 3 ohms at 225watt momentarily.  The BW speakers (whether 600, 700 or 800 series) are notorious for dipping that low at some frequencies below 200hz and many receivers just can't handle that well.   

retails for much lower than 180K. got ours for around 150K including original 805 stands if i remember it correctly.  for 8 series it would be best to have them connected to quality made beefy power amps with high current capability. stay away from A/V receivers. you wont get the best from your investment if you do so. running our 805's with 100 watts per channel for the tweeters and 200 watts per channel for the midwoofers. Rotel amplification.

[MAtZTER]

Receivers are always jacks of all trades, whether entry or flagship.  One is just a better jack than the other. 

Very well said sir! 

Anyway, i just got these set of B&W's. Hope it exceeds my expectations...

Power them well and it will exceed your expectations for sure. Try at least THX ultra class receivers or Rotel power amps.

Kung dyns just be prepared to invest sa high power tube amp para lumabas ang potential nya.

Veteran audiophiles told me Dyns works best with SS or Hybrids. 

[highwayman]

Impedance mismatch is not really an issue as compared to timbre (pronounced "tam-ber") matching issue, w/c the audessy can now handle, but not 100% perfect of course.

Technically you can even use 4 ohm surrounds if your receiver is powerful enough, since surrounds dont sound off all the time.

sir, what would happen if the timbre of my speakers do not match?

[MAtZTER]

Panning (front to back, left to right channel) scenes might sound wierd and different sounding across each channel.

Usually its hard to notice but if it does become obvious, its bothersome to your HT enjoyment. Thats why its best/ideal (Though its not possible all the time)  to have all 5 speakers of the same size & brand & model (if possible).

I setup a HT for a relative recently & a huge, very old model B&W L&R speaker was retained for sentimental purposes. I find that the huge size of the fronts seems to have a hard time to integrate with the rest of the smaller speakers, surrounds specially.

Typical beginner mentality is "bigger is better" or "basta floorstander" but I slowly discover that its not always or necessarily the best way. I set the huge speaker to "small" in the end.

My HT now uses 5 matched speakers (I was also using "basta FS mentality before") , and one thing I notice is the seamlessness of the integration from panning from L-R , Front to back. So seamless in fact, that sometimes it sounds like my whole side wall sound is coming from just one speaker (using Denon 2807).

HTH. 

[JcCapco]

Mga sir and gurus,

Can you help me were i can buy a best deal or yung mababa lang magbigay ng brand new Wharfedale 9.5 series? I have already inquired 12,900K sa Shangrila at park square, pwede na po ba yung 12,900K or may mas mababa p b dun? maraming salamat po.....