Topic: DIY Power Cord

[JojoD818]

by conduction, remember current flows thru the wire by conduction, not induction, remember?

hindi kaya through seduction? 

j/k

100% theory goes with 100% application, either these or not at all...practice without theory is blind, theory without practice is lame...

for DIY'ers who do not know theory, as long as you do it safely, then it's okey....

that ratio would have been a good thing in practice, unfortunately not a reality yet. most techies or even engineers just want to talk talk and talk. or like your what your saying says... lame. 

[Bogsle]

100% theory goes with 100% application, either these or not at all...practice without theory is blind, theory without practice is lame...

for DIY'ers who do not know theory, as long as you do it safely, then it's okey....

Nice statement huh  . I wish can be as confident to say things like that.

But going back to DIYing, anyone can help out with this? I'm repeating my previous query.

Why is it that cable manufacturers use both braided copper shielding and aluminum shielding for their cables when they say aluminum sheilding already provides 100% coverage and enough shielding?

If so, they're just adding cost to their products na hindi naman kailangan, right? Kung may good reason behind using two types of shielding on cables, then we should try harder to make sure that our DIY cables be as such or try to be closer to it. At least to raise the bar with regards to DIYing power cables specifically.

Since some of you guys are the ones with the "theory", could you please help us out?

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance.





 

[rascal101]

Agree that theory without practice is lame. However, explanation without the benefit of theory or valid experimental results is equally lame. Theory started with experimentation of one person and based on what happens or observation a pattern of behavior/process is observed.

While it is also good to do things for the sake of doing it, one should also put in to mind that an equal effort into reading the theory behind it puts things to a higher perspective.

[Bogsle]

Agree that theory without practice is lame. However, explanation without the benefit of theory or valid experimental results is equally lame.

Okay guys, we get your point, Rascal 101 and TonyT. I just hope you don't scare or discourage other none-techie DIYers out there from posting in this forum, those that DO NOT have much "theory" or have the vast technical knowledge as you may have. Those guys that have basic knowledge lamang but is eager to learn naman and create their own DIY stuff.

I hope those guys, who I stand for, do not get descriminated because of the big words that are being put out here like, "practice without theory is lame"...and so on.

As for me, I have small knowledge only and I try to learn by my mistakes, and that's how I enjoy DIYing, that's it. I'd rather welcome technical comments or suggestions that will make my DIYing better.

Okay, so nasaan na yung mga theory nyo? Why is it that the focus of this forum, which is DIYing, is being ignored in the question below?

"Why is it that cable manufacturers use both braided copper shielding and aluminum shielding for their cables when they say aluminum sheilding already provides 100% coverage and enough shielding?"

[ATJr.]

Why is it that cable manufacturers use both braided copper shielding and aluminum shielding for their cables when they say aluminum sheilding already provides 100% coverage and enough shielding?

can you imagine a coaxial cable with solid copper outer core? how are you going to bend those? sometimes theory is not required, just plain common sense.... braiding makes a lot of sense in consideration of flexibillity in handling...

as for the aluminum foil it would be better to inquire direct from the manufacturers, there are coax cables out there  without aluminum foils..

[ATJr.]

i am not here to scare anybody, in fact i encourage those who would like to roll out their own diy power cords, i don't see anything wrong in making your own power cords.

what i want to discourage is the practice of dropping technical terms wherein the poster do not seem to know what they are talking about..

itong forum natin, binabasa ng mga taga-ibang bansa...ayaw kong lumabas tayong katawa-tawa kung nagpapahayag tayo ng mali...sana maunawaan ako ng mga kabayan, wala akong layon na pulaan ang sinuman...

[Jagner]

Bogsie,

Are you asking about the cable shielding on coaxial cables for A/V use or are we still in the subject of power cords?

[rascal101]

Pare-parehas lang tayo dito. Walang problema mag-experimento pero may problema sa akin iyung mga nagmamarunong pero di naman naintidihan ang sinasabi.

Sir Bogsle,

My experience with coaxial cables both is that the "aluminum shielding" is actually non-conductive. Starting from the inner conductor - solid or stranded copper, insulator, "aluminum shielding", copper shielding, insulator ... this is generally what I observe. Now as to why they have this thin layer of aluminum shielding, I don't know. Maybe to protect the solid or stranded copper insulator???

[Le_Stat]

From prototype, here now is my actual project for a 9 conductor braid:









Materials needed:

8 meters 14awg color red
8 meters 14awg color yellow
2 meters 12 awg color blue

Would yield 1 meter and 6 inches of braided 9 conductor power cord.   The diameter of this is as wide as a 25 Centavo coin.  I have noe tested this yet since wala pa akong mga plugs.   So what can I say about this power cord?  Ang sakit sa kamay gawin.  Don't forget to cut your nails first before doing this.  Took me approximately 3 hours to braid. 

I have not started wrapping it with teflon and alluminum foil yet.

[qguy]

Bravo !!!


post naman instructions on how to do this ?...

From prototype, here now is my actual project for a 9 conductor braid:









Materials needed:

8 meters 14awg color red
8 meters 14awg color yellow
2 meters 12 awg color blue

Would yield 1 meter and 6 inches of braided 9 conductor power cord.   The diameter of this is as wide as a 25 Centavo coin.  I have noe tested this yet since wala pa akong mga plugs.   So what can I say about this power cord?  Ang sakit sa kamay gawin.  Don't forget to cut your nails first before doing this.  Took me approximately 3 hours to braid. 

I have not started wrapping it with teflon and alluminum foil yet.

[oweidah]

astig ang tirintas mo vamp tom c.! 

oo nga sana may ala-jane fonda instructional video how to braid.

keep on twisting n tweaking!

[JojoD818]

galing mo Le_Stat! two thumbs up to you!

ps: sakit siguro pag pinang-hampas yan. 

[Le_Stat]

galing mo Le_Stat! two thumbs up to you!

ps: sakit siguro pag pinang-hampas yan. 

ay oo!  siguradong masakit eto pag hinampas.  habang bine-braid ko palang eh you can already feel the weight habang nakalambitin sa ginawa ko na angkasan ng wire.

hindi ko lang ma-banggit brand name kasi siguradong madali eto ma-search sa google ng mga gumawa neto originally.  Baka ako ma-deport ... este... ma-export.... sa compaya nila   

I would try to post step by step instructions using pictures. andito pa naman yung set up ko.

OT:  Dapat magaling ka sa Kamasutra para maganda pagka-buhol buhol mo ng mga wire.  Magaling ka rin dapat sa Finger. 

[jerix]

Nice statement huh  . I wish can be as confident to say things like that.

But going back to DIYing, anyone can help out with this? I'm repeating my previous query.

Why is it that cable manufacturers use both braided copper shielding and aluminum shielding for their cables when they say aluminum sheilding already provides 100% coverage and enough shielding?

If so, they're just adding cost to their products na hindi naman kailangan, right? Kung may good reason behind using two types of shielding on cables, then we should try harder to make sure that our DIY cables be as such or try to be closer to it. At least to raise the bar with regards to DIYing power cables specifically.

Since some of you guys are the ones with the "theory", could you please help us out?

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance.





 

Bro, i asked this once, and the answer was -- just for purposes of convenience, meaning so u know the + and -. 

[ATJr.]

hindi ko lang ma-banggit brand name kasi siguradong madali eto ma-search sa google ng mga gumawa neto originally.  Baka ako ma-deport ... este... ma-export.... sa compaya nila  

eto ba yon?http://www.moon-audio.com/powerproducts.htm

excellent one Le_Stat, i wish i had the energy and the talent to do cables like you did! well done!!!

[Le_Stat]

Thanks TonyT.  That link you provided does have some very nice expandable sleeves on it as well as the transparent plugs.  Their cables are providing 4 conductors that is 11awg each.  Grabe tigas niyan i-twist, but mas madali yung braid na yun.

If I can only remember the other site that sells expandable sleeves.  One is Farnell, the other is... hmmm.  anybody knows?

[ATJr.]

the google was the giveaway..    hmmm..i wouldn't call their prices exorbitant, for the job done, i'd say the cost was reasonable...

[JojoD818]

ay oo!  siguradong masakit eto pag hinampas.  habang bine-braid ko palang eh you can already feel the weight habang nakalambitin sa ginawa ko na angkasan ng wire.

hindi ko lang ma-banggit brand name kasi siguradong madali eto ma-search sa google ng mga gumawa neto originally.  Baka ako ma-deport ... este... ma-export.... sa compaya nila   

I would try to post step by step instructions using pictures. andito pa naman yung set up ko.

OT:  Dapat magaling ka sa Kamasutra para maganda pagka-buhol buhol mo ng mga wire.  Magaling ka rin dapat sa Finger. 

Oks yan step by step instructions, susubukan ko din mag braid, mukhang masaya at challenging. 

In the meantime, I'll brush up on my Kamasutra. 

bravo!

the google was the giveaway..    hmmm..i wouldn't call their prices exorbitant, for the job done, i'd say the cost was reasonable...

I agree, bonus pa yun pogi points. 

[Le_Stat]

HELP ON SHIELDING OF POWER CABLES

   I have read that power cables are shielded either by Copper Tape and Copper Braid.  I have noticed the actual Belden 8303 using both aluminum braid and Aluminum foil.   Their Aluminum foil was applied longitudinally parallel to the cables, and NOT applied spirally perpendicular to the wires.  I have also confirmed this configuration in the link below.  The copper braid is for low frequency shielding.  I have read that Aluminum foil is for the High Frequency shielding.  Pero I read that Aluminum Shielding is mostly used on Digital applications like interconnects.  I also read that the ground wire should be placed next to the aluminum foil.   Since I do not have the copper braid available at hand,  can I insulate the power cord with just aluminum foil?   Since a powercord need to be properly grounded, the presence of a copper braid should be joined with the ground wire only at the source of electricity.  Papano pag aluminum foil lang?  Meron bang bad effect pag aluminum foil lang ang nakalagay tapos walang copper/aluminum braid shield?  Tapos hindi pa ito nakakabit sa ground wire?

  I am thinking what to do next on shielding my power cable project.  Ngayon kailangan ko ng technical electrical knowledge help.  Here is where my Kamasutra powers ends. 

..... btw, I currently placed PTFE Teflon over the braid na.

Source :

http://www.anixter.com/AXECOM/AXEDocLib.nsf/(UnID)/72E1F3D3D65CD768862570ED0054431E/$file/WCTH_Shields.pdf

[rascal101]

For copper braid sleeve, you might want to contact Alphawire (www.alphawire.com). A friend has informed that when they used a copper braid (Alphawire P/N 2170) and put a stranded wire (AWG 18) inside it there was a significant reduction in the inductance (about 3X) vs 2 wire pair twisting.

[Le_Stat]

............... and there was silence!   Where did the technical guys go now? 

............... 9 conductor braid, now under serious breakin-in ! 

[Jagner]

Considering that one already did a braid or even just a twisted pair, why do you still need a to employ a Copper or Aluminium shielding? 

[Le_Stat]

Considering that one already did a braid or even just a twisted pair, why do you still need a to employ a Copper or Aluminium shielding? 

Here's a technical explanation:

http://www.anixter.com/AXECOM/AXEDocLib.nsf/(UnID)/72E1F3D3D65CD768862570ED0054431E/$file/WCTH_Shields.pdf

This is also in handbooks of Electrical Engineers.  You don't need to shield it as it does the purpose of providing electricity and also the fact that it's still below the 3kVa category.  It's just technology in the works of providing a better outcome on your equipment.  And since I want to optimize the use on my invested equipment, I want to learn more on how to do this.

[Jagner]

Here's a technical explanation:

http://www.anixter.com/AXECOM/AXEDocLib.nsf/(UnID)/72E1F3D3D65CD768862570ED0054431E/$file/WCTH_Shields.pdf

This is also in handbooks of Electrical Engineers.  You don't need to shield it as it does the purpose of providing electricity and also the fact that it's still below the 3kVa category.  It's just technology in the works of providing a better outcome on your equipment.  And since I want to optimize the use on my invested equipment, I want to learn more on how to do this.

The shielding they were explaining are actually used for underground power lines, 5KV and above, not the consumer grade (220/110 V) power lines (I think I still have samples of those power cables here in my office   they're a about 4 cm thick ).  The additional copper shielding is just to ensure that there will be no discharges coming off from the main conductor.  Those discharges, expecially on U/G power lines, can be quite deadly.

copper or aluminium shielding for signal cables (IC, Speaker cables) are used to minimize the influence of EMI into the signal.  But useless if they're not properly grounded.   

Hope this helps.

[rascal101]

Just out of curiosity, since EMI/RFI is present everywhere, would my DIY power cord
be able to filter out these kind of noise? I ask because if I have very little
leakage capacitance and inductance (due to the cable geometry), how will it act as
a filter? Also, my understanding on why we have these cables is because we would
like to remove unwanted things such as noise. TIA.

[Jagner]

Rascal, 

Actually, as I understood it, the DIY power cord does not filter the noise.  The reason why there's a need to twist or braid the cable is to minimuze the coverage and influence of the EMF generated by the power cord on any other conductive materials in proximity, when fed with an AC voltage  (Syempre, walang EMF  ang DC voltage).     

Yup, as long as an equipment requires AC power,there will be EMF generated.

Hmmmm, 20 years after college and it's only when I began listening to music as a hobby that I'm beginning to understand what my Professor in Electromagnetics was talking about 

[Le_Stat]

Yes, the link I provided is for industrial grade power cables.  However, the principles in this is also being applied by power cable manufacturers for Audio. 

QUESTION :
Would the use of ONLY an aluminum foil for a DIY cable be useless, with the fact that there are no copper braidings installed in the same wire?   I also don't know if an aluminum foil can be grounded "as is" without copper braiding in the wire.  This would save me on my materials in my DIY cables.

[rascal101]

Le_stat,

You are correct but my point is the unwanted EMF generated by a AC source due to the cable geometry is quite small. In fact, if you take a look at your input AC waveforms you wll see that it is not a perfect sinusoid. This means to say you have other signals that are added which cause distortion. And, when not properly filtered gets into your system. This I believe is the more urgent problem and a solution to this is an EMI/RFI filter.

It's good that you mentioned Electromagnetics because Electricity and Magnetism are related. If I have an magnetic field of a magnitude X and an opposite magnetic field with a magnitude X the result is a zero magnetic field and of course zero electric field right?

[Jagner]

Yes, the link I provided is for industrial grade power cables.  However, the principles in this is also being applied by power cable manufacturers for Audio. 

QUESTION :
Would the use of ONLY an aluminum foil for a DIY cable be useless, with the fact that there are no copper braidings installed in the same wire?   I also don't know if an aluminum foil can be grounded "as is" without copper braiding in the wire.  This would save me on my materials in my DIY cables.

Yes commerical power cables commonly used for high-end audio applications do use shielding, aside from the usual twists/braids.  This is to ensure that the EMF generated by the mains cable does not leak out 100% (else these power cable manufacturers will be suited by the high-end audio users ). 

As far as terminating the alumimium foil is concerned,  no harm in trying, that's what DIY is all about:  EXPERIMENTING   But I did read an article which explains the purpose of an unterminated aluminium foil - it serves as a shield for Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) and used mainly for shielding cables used in signal transmission.   Since your just trying to contain EMF generated by your mains cable,  why do you still need to put an aluminium foil over it?   

Also,  try to surf the Net for EMF (Electro Magnetic Field) interference and read on it.  It would help you understand  why the need to have cables shielded for a particular use. 

Hope this helps.

[Le_Stat]

Le_stat,

You are correct but my point is the unwanted EMF generated by a AC source due to the cable geometry is quite small. In fact, if you take a look at your input AC waveforms you wll see that it is not a perfect sinusoid. This means to say you have other signals that are added which cause distortion. And, when not properly filtered gets into your system. This I believe is the more urgent problem and a solution to this is an EMI/RFI filter.

It's good that you mentioned Electromagnetics because Electricity and Magnetism are related. If I have an magnetic field of a magnitude X and an opposite magnetic field with a magnitude X the result is a zero magnetic field and of course zero electric field right?

Rascal101,

I think you are refering to Jagner?  I haven't mentioned anything about Electromagnetics.  That left my mind when I finished my 4 EE subjects in Mapua.       Eng'r Jagner can answer you on that.