Author Topic: My dream theater  (Read 417333 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ninjababez®

  • Trade Count: (+77)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,373
  • I know what poverty is.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1040
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2010 on: Dec 29, 2010 at 08:50 PM »
There is no ideal "height" for the front height speakers. There is rather an ideal angle, which is 45 degrees along a vertical plane. Try to calculate that and you'll find that nasa kisame ka, unless you have very high walls.
thanks bro, btw how much did 1 roll of 14awg cost sa raon?  yan ba yung 150 meters per roll?  :)
ninjababez online ..

Offline gaol

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,652
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: Last upgrade for 2010!
« Reply #2011 on: Dec 29, 2010 at 09:42 PM »

Next upgrade was an Emotiva XPA-5 power amp:



It was on sale and I couldn't resist. Landed cost for me was around P35k for a beautiful 5-channel power amp, capable of 200 watts @ 8 ohms and 300 watts @ 4 ohms with ALL channels driven. After having blown my Aragon amp twice and having just blown my Bryston amp after 16 years of problem-free performance (it's now in the repair shop), I decided to get the Emotiva, which is reputed to be very solidly built. If you frequent AVS Forum, you will notice that everyone there is buying Emotiva amps. There's a reason for that. The quality is so good and the price is so cheap. Unfortunately, out-of-stock ang XPA-5. Binili yata namin ni @gaol ang 2 huling units.  ;D ;D ;D

Listening impressions? Hard to say. All I can say right now is that it's an efficient amp and delivers lots of clean power.




Congratulations again Mark on all the fatntastic upgrades to your--heck, dare i say everyone's-dream theater!  ;D ;D

For the record, I only got 1, nd based on the tracking numbers, mukhang ikaw ang naka-ubos ng XPA-5 kaya hindi nakabili si Jay2!!!! hehehe ;D

Happy New Year Bro and will surely visit your dream theater soon!  :)

Offline stickfighter

  • Trade Count: (+109)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,441
  • IF IT'S LOUD...YOU'RE TOO OLD!!! IT MUST BE SVS!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2012 on: Dec 29, 2010 at 09:55 PM »
What a way to end the year!!! :o Congrats sir Mark!...So when do we get together for a wine drinking session? ::) I'll bring the cheese... :P

Offline John E.

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,382
  • God is good all the time!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2013 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 04:45 AM »
congrats again and again sir mark! ;D

happy new year!
You'll Always Go Back To This Hobby!

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2014 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 05:32 AM »
thanks bro, btw how much did 1 roll of 14awg cost sa raon?  yan ba yung 150 meters per roll?  :)

I think that for the ordinary cables, you can get 14 AWG for about P2000 per 100 meters at DEECO (baka less pa nga). Nagbebenta rin sila ng tingi.

My cable is 12 AWG and silver-coated so it cost P75/m and P5800 per roll of 100 meters.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2015 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 05:33 AM »
What a way to end the year!!! :o Congrats sir Mark!...So when do we get together for a wine drinking session? ::) I'll bring the cheese... :P

Oh ... my weakness. With that incentive, any time. PM ka lang.  ;D ;D
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline ninjababez®

  • Trade Count: (+77)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,373
  • I know what poverty is.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1040
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2016 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 05:41 AM »
I think that for the ordinary cables, you can get 14 AWG for about P2000 per 100 meters at DEECO (baka less pa nga). Nagbebenta rin sila ng tingi.

My cable is 12 AWG and silver-coated so it cost P75/m and P5800 per roll of 100 meters.
not bad .. :)

how old were your previous cables?  did they showed some oxidation, or rot ba yun?

thanks for the pm btw  :D
ninjababez online ..

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2017 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 05:44 AM »
not bad .. :)

how old were your previous cables?  did they showed some oxidation, or rot ba yun?

thanks for the pm btw  :D

The cables that they replaced were just a couple of months old, installed by my contractor. Since they are pretty new, wala pang kalawang. Pinalitan ko cuz they were 16 AWG and undersized pa.

I have older 12 AWG cables which are about 11 years old now. May kaunting kalawang sa tips but not much.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline jay2

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 415
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2018 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 09:27 PM »


Mark you finally pulled a major major upgrade!!! sobra ganda ng speakers mo wish ako kay santa kahit isang paris lang nyan next year at mapapakabait ako for the whole year umpisa sa chinese new year !!!
Parinig na lang next year pramis dadala ako tuwalya at sigurado tulo laway ko jan :P :P :P


gaol hindi ako umabot sa cutoff mukang naunahan mo ko pag pindot sa checkout! ;)

Offline stickfighter

  • Trade Count: (+109)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,441
  • IF IT'S LOUD...YOU'RE TOO OLD!!! IT MUST BE SVS!!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2019 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 09:48 PM »
Oh ... my weakness. With that incentive, any time. PM ka lang.  ;D ;D

Sure thing sir Mark! It's a plan! ;D

Offline Mr.H

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,392
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2020 on: Dec 30, 2010 at 09:50 PM »

          Happy New Year 2011
PMC / SVS PB-12 / Paradigm / Rotel RSX / Vincent CDT/Castle Power LC /Mr.H PowerCords / Emotiva XP-5

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2021 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 06:21 AM »

Mark you finally pulled a major major upgrade!!! sobra ganda ng speakers mo wish ako kay santa kahit isang paris lang nyan next year at mapapakabait ako for the whole year umpisa sa chinese new year !!!
Parinig na lang next year pramis dadala ako tuwalya at sigurado tulo laway ko jan :P :P :P


Hi Jay! Of course, you do know that you played a major major role in this upgrade. Kaw nag-advice sa akin to pull the trigger pero akala mo 2 triggers lang (1 pair). D mo alam na 9 triggers pala (including the 2 SVS Ultras)!  ;D ;D

I insist na bisita ka next year!  :)
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline Nelson de Leon

  • Trade Count: (+141)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,084
  • Let us lead by example
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 291
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2022 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 10:20 AM »
Dami palang gatilyo ni sir Mark! What's your new cut-off point na pala ngayon sir sa sub and speakers? Audyssey ang nag set ba sir?

Offline dts-HD 3D

  • Trade Count: (+60)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,413
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 19
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2023 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 10:35 AM »
Hi sir Mark, congrats again . . . sakto para mamaya ang raw power ng Emo.

Offline jay2

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 415
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2024 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 11:57 AM »
Hi Jay! Of course, you do know that you played a major major role in this upgrade. Kaw nag-advice sa akin to pull the trigger pero akala mo 2 triggers lang (1 pair). D mo alam na 9 triggers pala (including the 2 SVS Ultras)!  ;D ;D

I insist na bisita ka next year!  :)

Gulat nga ako ng makita ko mukang kinuha mo lahat ng stocks na focal be ni av driver. Pati ultra ni Mike C mukang pinakyaw nyo.

Sigurado bisita ako at ng madinig ko yung very best of both worlds (Audio and HT)

Happy New year to you and family  :)

Offline nerveblocker

  • Trade Count: (+98)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,425
  • DTS-HD Master Audio!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 247
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2025 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 12:28 PM »
Happy New Year Mark!!!

I'm sure the Lord will bless you in this upcoming year! Thanks for being such an inspiration to this community.

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2026 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 12:43 PM »
Dami palang gatilyo ni sir Mark! What's your new cut-off point na pala ngayon sir sa sub and speakers? Audyssey ang nag set ba sir?

The Denon AVR sets different crossovers per channel. Audyssey MultEQ Pro gives the recommendation as to the crossover frequency that will result in the best fit. Most crossovers have been set at 40 Hz, a few at 60 Hz.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline XXXyzledge

  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,519
  • NO more CEBU PACIFIC flights for me!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2027 on: Dec 31, 2010 at 12:51 PM »
The Denon AVR sets different crossovers per channel. Audyssey MultEQ Pro gives the recommendation as to the crossover frequency that will result in the best fit. Most crossovers have been set at 40 Hz, a few at 60 Hz.

HAPPY NEW YEAR MARK!
Cayin, RS1, Velo, QED, Bada         Sony4K, HK, B&W, SVS, Oppo, LaZboy....

Offline JojoD818

  • Trade Count: (+147)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,558
  • Bring it on!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 57
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2028 on: Jan 01, 2011 at 08:15 AM »
Happy New Year Po Sir Mark!!!  8) 8) 8)

Offline Cjtjader

  • Trade Count: (+193)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,575
  • Lux Lucis Volo
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 256
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2029 on: Jan 01, 2011 at 09:13 AM »
Happy New Year, Brader Mark!!!!!!
Perspicuus ~ Quietus ~ Consilium ~ Patefacio

Offline audiojunkie

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,398
  • >>|<< OB - Dipole Rules >>|<<
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: My dream theater -- LAST upgrade ... for 2010
« Reply #2030 on: Jan 01, 2011 at 11:24 AM »



 :)
Anthem CD1
Anthem Pre1
Audio Linear TT
Ortofon Rondo Red
Theta Dac
GTA SE-40 Amp
JBL L7
AudioQuest

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2031 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 02:01 PM »


The XTZ Room Analyzer is basically an audio measurement tool. Probably its most useful feature is its ability to measure bass frequencies from 16 Hz to 250 Hz. The following chart corresponds to the raw performance of the Focal Electra 1037 Be front speakers, without any equalization. It shows the frequency and time-domain response, as well as identifies the room modes.



A closer view of the time domain chart and room modes:


I think the charts are self-explanatory. In the frequency response chart, the x-axis is frequency from 16 to 250 Hz while the vertical axis is db, with each horizontal line corresponding to 5 db. One can note that there is a massive room mode at 82 Hz and 2 lesser ones at 36 Hz and 52 Hz. The low-end of the speaker is a little lower than 40 Hz, in accordance with its specs.

The color chart is for time domain, with the x-axis corresponding to 0-250 milliseconds, while the vertical axis is for frequency, up to 250 Hz. The violets correspond to the highest energy, followed by the reds and yellows and finally blue (no energy). Again, one can note the excess energy centered around the 82 Hz room mode. This chart also shows that there is a substantial amount of energy past 50 milliseconds. This refers to excess bass energy that lingers in the room and makes the bass sound bloated. Generally, if the sound energy is limited to 50 milliseconds, the room performance is good.

The performance of the room is actually not that bad, which is not surprising considering the extensive acoustic treatments I have employed. However, the biggest problem is that even for a large high-end speaker such as the Focal Electra 1037, the bass extension below 40 Hz is weak.

Thus, this next chart shows now show the performance of the speakers, with the subwoofers (2 x SVS PB-13 Ultras and 2 x Paradigm Servo-15 V2's). Even if the speakers can go down to 40 Hz, the optimum crossover is sometimes determined by the room and speaker position. This was true in this case because after doing an Audyssey Pro calibration, it was suggested to use 80 Hz as an optimal crossover.





Once more, there was no equalization done and yet, one can see the substantial improvements in the charts. There is now significant bass extension all the way down to 16 Hz (the measurement limit of XTZ) and the energy beyond 50 milliseconds has been substantially dissipated (in this case, I believe that the use of 4 subwoofers is responsible for reducing the effect of the room modes). The main problem in the time domain appears to be the plume at the 37 Hz room mode.

Finally, I activated the Audyssey MultEQ calibration (actually MultEQ XT32 and a Pro kit):





The most obvious difference is that the frequency response is very flat, all the way down to 16 Hz. The second significant thing is that there were no room modes found (in the 1st set of charts, 3 room modes were found while 2 modes were found in the 2nd set of charts). Finally, there is very little energy past 50 milliseconds, which means that the bass response will sound tighter.

This final chart is similar to the previous ones except that it is for all frequencies (all the way up to 20 kHz) and it also shows RT60 (the time it takes to drop 60 db), which is a standard room measurement.



For movies, RT60 of around 0.3 seconds is good so the room is fine. For music, RT60 should typically be higher but this is mitigated by the use of Audyssey DSX so it should also be fine.

Overall, the XTZ Room Analyzer is pretty easy to use and very useful as it gives you a good idea of what's happening in the room.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2011 at 02:47 PM by streetsmart »
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline gaol

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,652
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2032 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 02:39 PM »
Very very nice, Mark!  ;D

Btw, I'm not so clear what RT60 is and what it means/implies? I recall Alvin mentioning that a measurement of .3 is good for movies, but for music it should be a bit higher, and it seems this is what he is referring to (I didn't really understand at that time hehehe). I also remember him mentioning that my room will be designed to be tuned a bit higher, para pwede rin for music.

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2033 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 02:46 PM »
Very very nice, Mark!  ;D

Btw, I'm not so clear what RT60 is and what it means/implies? I recall Alvin mentioning that a measurement of .3 is good for movies, but for music it should be a bit higher, and it seems this is what he is referring to (I didn't really understand at that time hehehe). I also remember him mentioning that my room will be designed to be tuned a bit higher, para pwede rin for music.

RT60 means "Reverberation Time 60 db". It's the time it takes for an audio signal to decay by 60 db in a particular room.

Basically, if a room is full of reflective surfaces, it takes a long time before sound dies down (think of an empty concrete room that is so echo-y). The opposite is a fully carpeted room with full fiberglass treatment on the walls, thick sofas, etc. (very dead). The reflective room will have a high RT60 while the dead room will have a low RT60.

How critical is RT60? Actually, some authors are now saying that it's not that critical. What's really most important are the first reflections and bass traps.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline gaol

  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,652
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2034 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 02:58 PM »
RT60 means "Reverberation Time 60 db". It's the time it takes for an audio signal to decay by 60 db in a particular room.

Basically, if a room is full of reflective surfaces, it takes a long time before sound dies down (think of an empty concrete room that is so echo-y). The opposite is a fully carpeted room with full fiberglass treatment on the walls, thick sofas, etc. (very dead). The reflective room will have a high RT60 while the dead room will have a low RT60.

How critical is RT60? Actually, some authors are now saying that it's not that critical. What's really most important are the first reflections and bass traps.

Ah ok, I get it, thanks. :) Why would the recommended RT60 for music rooms be slightly higher than for pure HT applications? The additional reverberation time makes music sound better, while for HT you would rather the sound you hear is the result of the HT processing, i.e., DD/DTS (HD or not) plus Audyssey (or another) room correction?

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2035 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 03:17 PM »
Ah ok, I get it, thanks. :) Why would the recommended RT60 for music rooms be slightly higher than for pure HT applications? The additional reverberation time makes music sound better, while for HT you would rather the sound you hear is the result of the HT processing, i.e., DD/DTS (HD or not) plus Audyssey (or another) room correction?

My understanding is the following:

Think of a concert at maybe the CCP main theater or Philam. Most of what you hear is reverb (reflections from the walls and ceiling), not direct sound. It gives the listener a sense of greater space or, technically, an improved "Apparent Source Width" and "Listener Envelopment". The RT60 in these concert halls could be between 1.5 to 3 seconds. In our HT, that same reverberation (to a reasonable degree of course) will improve our listening experience to music.

On the other hand, with movies, too high a reverb time may result in poorer dialogue intelligibility.

The practical side of this is that in most rooms, once you put in the furniture, carpet and drapes, RT60 goes down to around 0.5 seconds which is already a fine compromise between music and movies. However, you still need to treat first reflections and install bass traps for the room modes. Therefore, these are actually more critical than RT60.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline pchin

  • Trade Count: (+122)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,847
  • HD-Men
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2036 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 03:34 PM »
Nice technology equip you have there Mark! Very sophisticated. ;)

I'm really curious of my room RT60. Do you think my room condition could be in the range of 0.5 to 1.5? :)

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2037 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 03:49 PM »
Nice technology equip you have there Mark! Very sophisticated. ;)

I'm really curious of my room RT60. Do you think my room condition could be in the range of 0.5 to 1.5? :)

My guess is that it's a little less than RT50. A fully-furnished living room with carpet and sofas is typically RT50. Your room is more dead than that ... but of course, we need to measure. Next time! :)
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline Nelson de Leon

  • Trade Count: (+141)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,084
  • Let us lead by example
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 291
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2038 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 07:22 PM »
Very good sir. Congrats. It gets even better and better ah. Sinusulit talaga ang major major upgrade. And everyone knows your system deserves it.

Parang commercial ng beer dati, "Wala ka nang hahanapin pa."  ;)

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: My dream theater -- XTZ Room Analyzer
« Reply #2039 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 07:39 PM »
Very good sir. Congrats. It gets even better and better ah. Sinusulit talaga ang major major upgrade. And everyone knows your system deserves it.

Parang commercial ng beer dati, "Wala ka nang hahanapin pa."  ;)

Hehe. Thanks, Nelson. Actually, a few months ko na ginagamit ang XTZ. Ngayon lang ako nag-post kasi nasa bahay lang past 2 days kaya wala magawa. May sakit -- measles (sakit ng bata).  ;D ;D ;D

Pagaling na.  :)
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.