Topic: Building a dedicated Home Theater

[streetsmart]

Sir could you please do me a favor and point out specific problematic frequencies in my room if i use 8,9 or 10feet of ceiling and which do u think will be best for my current room plus other details by using modecalc it will greatly help our current treatment views and plans. My current net connection is too slow to complete even that small sized file lagi pa nadidisconnect. Thank you

Running modecalc.exe, 10 feet is the best. Firstly kasi, the minimum recommended volume is 2500 cu. ft. With 10 ft. ceiling, abot sya sa 2393 cu. ft, which is quite close na.

The problem frequencies will be between 280 and 420 hz, which can be handled through bass traps.

The dimensions look pretty ok. D nagpapatong ang room modes.

[streetsmart]

-made of hollow blocks yung walls. dimensions are about 5 meters X 9 meters X 10 ft

The dimensions look pretty good. Just note that this is quite a big room so if you want to listen at reference levels, you are going to need powerful amps and speakers. Probably 200 wpc minimum.

Then you will need a big subwoofer. Maybe one 18" or 2 x 12". Rule of thumb lang yun but will depend din syempre on the specs of the sub.

Malaki electricity bill. But the result should be pretty good. With a bigger room volume, mas maganda ang surround effect.

[STRIKER]

thanks for the heads up STREET,

kung maganda naman kalalabasan well i guess pede na pikit mata sa pag bayad ng electricity bill. hehehe

im thinking for getting a 7 chan power amp to power my floorstanders, honestly i feel na adequate na yung speakers ko na minamata for that size room.

[streetsmart]

thanks for the heads up STREET,

kung maganda naman kalalabasan well i guess pede na pikit mata sa pag bayad ng electricity bill. hehehe

im thinking for getting a 7 chan power amp to power my floorstanders, honestly i feel na adequate na yung speakers ko na minamata for that size room.

Ingat ka lang sa subwoofer. You need a strong one (or two) which can go below 20 hz. Locally, you can look at Paradigm Servo-15. You can also try getting an Axiom EP-500 (order via internet). If you can source an SVS PB-12 Plus or a Hsu, ok rin yun.

[spenz]

Running modecalc.exe, 10 feet is the best. Firstly kasi, the minimum recommended volume is 2500 cu. ft. With 10 ft. ceiling, abot sya sa 2393 cu. ft, which is quite close na.

The problem frequencies will be between 280 and 420 hz, which can be handled through bass traps.

The dimensions look pretty ok. D nagpapatong ang room modes.

Howaw! Thank you very much sir for your excellent advise. We will be installing the basic four corner bass traps, plus depending on the design of my architect we're also planning to make all sharp corners including from the side and rear walls which is connected to the ceiling as dead as possible by installing mini bass traps into it. If however the design won't allow it, i think the basic four corner bass traps is enough na to tame that pesky bass booms. Again sorry sir for the late reply from time to time mahirap talaga access ng internet samin.

This coming monday pala my friend will pass his 2nd draft, I'll try to upload it here asap. Thanks again sir and more power to you.

[spenz]

If my final room dimension would be 20'11" x 11'9" x 10', what size of subwoofer do you think will yield the best overall smooth bass response. Currently, I already have a 12" M&K sub and although its performance to both audio and video is excellent already. Sometimes there are passages in the movie where i notice that it sounds rugged or parang pilit na. My suspect is that it lacks headroom bitin na kumbaga for my present room size. Now, i have two options in mind.

1. Add additional 12" Subwoofer kahit anung brand siguru will do as long as the size is the same or 12" din.
2. Buy two 15" identical subwoofer which i feel make sense and the sure fire way to fill my whole ht room with overall smooth low frequency goodness.

By the way, is there a basic rule which says if you have this room size you have to use this particular size of subwoofer or elss..? Or the only rule is the bigger the better since it has more headroom right?..

[streetsmart]

If my final room dimension would be 20'11" x 11'9" x 10', what size of subwoofer do you think will yield the best overall smooth bass response. Currently, I already have a 12" M&K sub and although its performance to both audio and video is excellent already. Sometimes there are passages in the movie where i notice that it sounds rugged or parang pilit na. My suspect is that it lacks headroom bitin na kumbaga for my present room size. Now, i have two options in mind.

1. Add additional 12" Subwoofer kahit anung brand siguru will do as long as the size is the same or 12" din.
2. Buy two 15" identical subwoofer which i feel make sense and the sure fire way to fill my whole ht room with overall smooth low frequency goodness.

By the way, is there a basic rule which says if you have this room size you have to use this particular size of subwoofer or elss..? Or the only rule is the bigger the better since it has more headroom right?..

More than the size, what's important for the sub is the power of the amp and how low the sub can go. Some 12" subs (for example, SVS) will beat a lot of 15" subs.

Buying a 2nd 12" sub is a good idea. Two 15" subs is probably overkill - your room isn't really that big.

Some manufacturers will tell you which size of sub to get, given a certain room volume. As I said, no matter how big your sub, if it can only go down to 35 hz, mahina yun. You should try to get one which can go to 18 hz or below.

[spenz]

More than the size, what's important for the sub is the power of the amp and how low the sub can go. Some 12" subs (for example, SVS) will beat a lot of 15" subs.

Buying a 2nd 12" sub is a good idea. Two 15" subs is probably overkill - your room isn't really that big.

Some manufacturers will tell you which size of sub to get, given a certain room volume. As I said, no matter how big your sub, if it can only go down to 35 hz, mahina yun. You should try to get one which can go to 18 hz or below.

Very nice suggestion sir. Thanks! I've spoken to Mike C kanina and he said to me that if i would go dual sub setup it is very important to get the same brand and model or else hindi maganda ang kinalalabasan because different subs eventhough it's the same in size has different port tuning so it will be harder to calibrate for each and the result is not quite good as we expected it to be if played together. If this is true...

This is where my other problem comes because my current M&K sub is already phased out so how on earth could i get a luck of finding this particular model. The options i can see is either to buy 2 identical brands like velodynes 15" or 12" and keep or sell my current M&K or stick with it.

[streetsmart]

Very nice suggestion sir. Thanks! I've spoken to Mike C kanina and he said to me that if i would go dual sub setup it is very important to get the same brand and model or else hindi maganda ang kinalalabasan because different subs eventhough it's the same in size has different port tuning so it will be harder to calibrate for each and the result is not quite good as we expected it to be if played together. If this is true...

This is where my other problem comes because my current M&K sub is already phased out so how on earth could i get a luck of finding this particular model. The options i can see is either to buy 2 identical brands like velodynes 15" or 12" and keep or sell my current M&K or stick with it.

Tama si Mike C, unless you get a 2nd sub with very similar specs and then use an RTA and parametric eq (such as the Velodyne SMS-1) to fine-tune the combination. Baka mahirap yun.

My suggestion is to buy a good 12" sub, such as an SVS. Try it out with the M&K. If you don't like the combo, sell the M&K and just keep the SVS. The SVS is probably strong enough for your room. In the future, you can get a 2nd.

[av_phile1]

If my final room dimension would be 20'11" x 11'9" x 10', what size of subwoofer do you think will yield the best overall smooth bass response. Currently, I already have a 12" M&K sub and although its performance to both audio and video is excellent already. Sometimes there are passages in the movie where i notice that it sounds rugged or parang pilit na. My suspect is that it lacks headroom bitin na kumbaga for my present room size. Now, i have two options in mind.

1. Add additional 12" Subwoofer kahit anung brand siguru will do as long as the size is the same or 12" din.
2. Buy two 15" identical subwoofer which i feel make sense and the sure fire way to fill my whole ht room with overall smooth low frequency goodness.

By the way, is there a basic rule which says if you have this room size you have to use this particular size of subwoofer or elss..? Or the only rule is the bigger the better since it has more headroom right?..

What you are experiencing is bass suck-out or room mode standing waves at certain frequencies canceling each other out at your listening position.  Bass frequencies starting at around 200hz below are most audibly affected by room modes. Try to learn more about room modes; plenty of articles on the internet, especially at audioholics. (And since you know your room dimensions, there are room mode calculators online that can predict the bass frequencies that peak and suck-out in your room.)

Getting at least two identical subs is a great way to smooth in-room bass response.  Bass response was less of a problem with stereo speakers belting out identical bass frequencies.  But using only one subwoofer anywhere in the room revealed room modes that were more difficult to control except with sophisticated bass traps and parametrics. The physics of having two identical bass sources in two different locations in a room tame room mode aberrations to a large extent, at least better than having just one sub.

Just a note:  having two or more identical bass sources in different parts of the room is less about having more bass power than about having smoother and flatter bass response.

[spenz]

Tama si Mike C, unless you get a 2nd sub with very similar specs and then use an RTA and parametric eq (such as the Velodyne SMS-1) to fine-tune the combination. Baka mahirap yun.

My suggestion is to buy a good 12" sub, such as an SVS. Try it out with the M&K. If you don't like the combo, sell the M&K and just keep the SVS. The SVS is probably strong enough for your room. In the future, you can get a 2nd.

Thanks sir. Yun na nga gagawin ko, magpaparating nalang ako ng isang SVS PB-12 Plus/2 or a pair of it kung sakaling may promo. Yung PB13-Ultra would be nice though.

[spenz]

What you are experiencing is bass suck-out or room mode standing waves at certain frequencies canceling each other out at your listening position.  Bass frequencies starting at around 200hz below are most audibly affected by room modes. Try to learn more about room modes; plenty of articles on the internet, especially at audioholics. (And since you know your room dimensions, there are room mode calculators online that can predict the bass frequencies that peak and suck-out in your room.)

Getting at least two identical subs is a great way to smooth in-room bass response.  Bass response was less of a problem with stereo speakers belting out identical bass frequencies.  But using only one subwoofer anywhere in the room revealed room modes that were more difficult to control except with sophisticated bass traps and parametrics. The physics of having two identical bass sources in two different locations in a room tame room mode aberrations to a large extent, at least better than having just one sub.

Just a note:  having two or more identical bass sources in different parts of the room is less about having more bass power than about having smoother and flatter bass response.

Thank you sir for providing a theory behind my bass problem. You are right; since my room is untreated when i first listened into it, that could be the reason why it sounded really rugged and in some areas it's noticeably lacking in bass. As i stated earlier iam now contemplating on getting either a pair of 12" subs or one big bad powerful one like the SVS PB13-Ultra that can go down as low as 15 to 10hz.

[spenz]

Hi! Here's the 2nd draft. Sorry medyo tumagal busy kasi Lately.


Front
I feel that the design is nice but  slightly exaggerated. I wanted the screen to be the main atttraction and not  the design along the perimeter of it. On the otherhand, many of my friends disagrees with me. My architect friend said he wanted  to include narra along the borders/perimeter to make it more inviting and stylish i totally agree with him except that i felt by doing so it may compromise our front acoustic treatment somehow. Although, i think with the drapes on the sides it may probably hold off frequency down to 250hz??(not sure)but if that is true then it’s good enough for me. But I can only imagine that is one thick drape which will probably cost me 2-3x than the narra tree i bought a month ago what a bummer.  I guess i’ll have to request again a different design probably much simpler than this one and then abandon narra application in the front portion, it may not be better looking than with narra but at least a much more effective acoustic treatment can be implemented plus taking the drapes away from the design will definitely save me more moolah.


Rear
The alternating pillar and column effect you are seeing is actually just a fabric. Inside the fabric is our customized diffusers patterned from the diagram i saw from the internet, I don’t know the rate of efficiency of this one so ill just keep my fingers crossed. The borders will all be narra planks and the white rectangle you are seeing above is the Panasonic split type AC indicating where it will be placed. For the left and righ border, i’m planning to hire an sculptor for this portion his artistic work should add depth and style. Unfortunately, wala pa kaming makita e. So the alternative is just to hang an sconce on both sides. This way, it will not look totally empty and dominated by my huge JBL rear surround speakers.

   
Left Elevation and Right Elevation
Iam really happy with how Lito had arrived into thinking of this design. Honestly this is exactly what i want. In the diagram above, we decided to interchange the placement of the door and equipment racks bcause i don’t want to be disturbed with viewers coming in and out of the room. Moreover, the equipment racks were slightly placed at 190 to 200-degree angle using the sweet spot as the vertex because lights coming out from my hindsight just bothers me for some reason most specially if it blinks often.grrr
My favorite part is the border design below where narra will also be used extensively along with the pillars. Although there are some issues with proper spacing and placement but it’s coming along fine. We’ll address this as soon as detailing time comes into play. For the meantime, i find this portion neat,elegant and simple in a way. I really like it. And i hope we can pull this off.^_^


The front part of the recessed ceiling will be filled with scattered fiber optics lightings, i have been longing for this long before i even planned on contructing a dedicated HT rm. So Iam just happy that we’re on our way on doing just that. ^_^ the back part is a different story, i just told my friend any design which he thinks will look good is fine with me as long as i have my stars effect on the front part. ^_^

   
Floor and Seating Plan
For the flooring it’s 100% narra all over following ricky’s suggested measurement of 10”X48” per plank.  Perhaps the feature that i want to share with you guys is that the floor will be decoupled from the building’s structural walls so as to minimize excess bass energy from creeping all over the house which could be a really powerful soundproofing method along with the double-walling construction technique. I read this from an article in the internet and i told Lito if we can do this and he said not a problem naman daw. So what the heck, let’s get it on. ^_^
Inspired by munskie’s ht room and advises from sir streetsmart I insisted to my architect on putting an elongated bar table behind the back of my second row of seatings eventhough at the very start he is against it, he was always jokingly saying hindi naman tyu umiinom e wag nayan and i always countered it with ill just use it to serve as a snack bar for may makukulit na pamangkin and for those casual viewers who wants to eat and drink doon nalang sila magkalat.hehe But now i realized that he might be right plus in actuality the space won’t allow it, it’s just too cramp and it will hurt the overall integrity of his design. So i guess i’d have to trash out the bar table idea for the 3rd and final draft.


Speakers Placement
Thinking back, I was really awed the ist time i saw how easily the autocad is plotting the result of the accurate angles on every position whichever we decide to put each and every  speaker on every part of the room.  Hmm powerful program! 
The only thing i don’t like with my current placement  is that i can’t get the center channel at the tweeter level along with my fronts so once i get a hand on that acoustically transparent screen i’ll definitely redo my center speaker placement.  As with regards the recommended angles and basing it from the diagram of my ht room, we think  that the room is versatile enough to get the perfect angle that we will probably need in the future once the formal setup has started. As for the real problem... We are curretly looking for a compact speaker wall mounts that can hold each of my 29lb surrounds and center speaker. =/ and so far we’re out of luck.

More to come...
1.   Lighting Plans – I was hovering around asking some suggestions about what type of lightings should i use. Ricky’s recommendation is to buy nalang daw his 110v dimmable lights and abandon the fiber optic ligthtings i planned earlier kasi marami narin daw nitong gumawa and he also mentioned that halogen really gets hot so any combustible material that will come into contact with it can possibly catch a fire and he is right. I mention this to lito and we decided to just install halogen for our task lightings so it will not be used as often as the area and accent lighting effect. Unfortunately, i can’t  abandon my fiber optic lighting affects and by now, you probably know the reason why.hehehe

After several meeting, Lito and I decided that it would be nice if we could possibly implement an automated lighting control system for the ht. Like for example if you press the “Preview Mode” button area lights will fade off slowly, sconces gradually intensifies along with the in-fabric lighting ffects. When pressing “Viewing Mode” all lights will fade off slowly and then the rope lights and fiber optic lightings will take over but for serious viewing you may opt for an option to turn everyting off except for the rope lights along the floor.

This feature could be very nice. I’ve only heard of some companies that carry this products  from outside the country like lutron, vantage, X10 etc.. but never in our country yet. So if anyone knows where can i inquire for an automated lighting control solution kindly notify me, iam really interested with it. But, if it will cost me my arms and legs, i’d gladly abandon the idea. =)

2.   Electrical Plan – Recently, maselco our electrical provider approved my request on installing a dedicated power lines on my HT room and i’m glad they did because we have lots of power hungry motor based machines down our building and when these monsters are set on you know what’s comin next grrr!!.. emi,rfi,fluctuations you name it we have it.^_^  Now with my dedicated power line in my HT room, Iam hoping that my current setup and future dedicated audio setup will be free from those devils. =p

For the final draft we will be showing the specific wiring placement/routes and type of wires we plan on using, not the most exciting part ehh but i feel that this could also help other serious  HT DIYers who like me, is in quest for the best and cleanest possible power to feed our gears. 

3.   Projector Screen upgrade – My current screen size is only 96”(diagonal) this is still the old draper pull down type. I was always scared at how iam going to waste money by buying a larger screen and then later on punch myself for wasting my money for buying something that will just make me dizzy. But later on i found out that iam not too sensitive with this vertigo problem. So this time i want a big bad ass screen, probably the biggest one that my room would allow. As usual, i went to consult some members, read lots of articles and then with the help of my friend lito and his masterful skill on autocad we were able to come up with an accurate maximum size that the room’s front wall would allow. It’s a massive 114.7(diagonal) whooa!!  But this will only be realised at a cost of moving my front speakers at the very edge of my sidewalls. Meaning i won’t have the luxury of repositioning my fronts anymore except for towing and moving  it in or out.

Another problem we have i s where to buy a customized fixed-screen type. As much as we want to DIY it ourselves unfortunately, we don’t know what,how or where to buy the specific materials needed.Hehe 


Note: There has been a slight change in our acoustic treatment, we are now going to use a 2” thick 48kg fiberglass on the sidewalls instead of 1” 80kg as originally planned because we are not treating the whole wall so as to prevent the room from becoming too dead, bass traps will be 6” thick fiberglass from floor to ceiling and if however, the room becomes too absorptive we will be applying additional reflective material inside the panels. This is the idea i got from Alvinthx, thanks sir.^_^


Same thing... Any suggestions and recommendations are very much welcome and appreciated! 

[sanmig_ph]

sir mark i have extra insulation material i think roxul yung brand. will this work for the fronts & sides of ht room? parang same material lang compare sa fiberglass.

[streetsmart]

sir mark i have extra insulation material i think roxul yung brand. will this work for the fronts & sides of ht room? parang same material lang compare sa fiberglass.

Yes, that should work. Kahit 2" lang, ok na yun.

[streetsmart]

@spenz,

AV Driver surely has the lighting controls. Lutron yata. I am pretty sure that Listening in Style should also have them.

[sanmig_ph]

Yes, that should work. Kahit 2" lang, ok na yun.

ok sir mark,can you enlighten me regarding setting up acoustic room.
1st - installing basic four corner bass trap like i saw in your ht room & marvin's ht.
i think this is the tutorial on how to make bass trap,kay marvin ko din nalaman to eh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyYUpkpL0gw 

2nd - padding of walls , for front walls is ok na whole padding of insulation?
for side walls is it ok to 4ft from fthe flooring ?
i notice din na may diffuser sa side wall nyo eh.

3rd - for back wall diffuser din like dvd/  book shelves

thanks

[sanmig_ph]

Guys any idea how much is the cost of La Coste fabric,to be used in wall acoustic.

[streetsmart]

ok sir mark,can you enlighten me regarding setting up acoustic room.
1st - installing basic four corner bass trap like i saw in your ht room & marvin's ht.
i think this is the tutorial on how to make bass trap,kay marvin ko din nalaman to eh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyYUpkpL0gw 

2nd - padding of walls , for front walls is ok na whole padding of insulation?
for side walls is it ok to 4ft from fthe flooring ?
i notice din na may diffuser sa side wall nyo eh.

3rd - for back wall diffuser din like dvd/  book shelves

thanks

1st - Madali lang ang bass trap. Just get the rockwool na 2" x 2' x 4'. Ipatong patong mo para maging 6" x 2' x 4' or even 8'. Gawa ka ng box na plywood which is open on both sides. Constrain the rockwool through some string or nylo. Then takpan mo ng acoustically-transparent tela. The best for me is La Coste. Ang alam ko is that this is about P50 or less per yard (pagalingan na lang ng tawad) sa Divisoria.

2nd - The simplest is to cover full front wall and the front side walls with 2" rockwool. Then takpan mo ng tela with a plastic frame that snaps the tela in place. Alamin ko lang where to get that plastic frame. Kung gusto mo magtipid, siguro kahit 4' lang ang height ng rockwool but centered on the wall.

3rd - Sa rear side walls and rear wall, dapat diffusive sya so bookshelves or dvd racks will be okay. Or lagyan mo ng slats, similar sa ginawa ni alvinthx2.

4th - Lagyan mo ng carpet ang flooring.

I think that should be the most basic.

[Munskie]

Guys any idea how much is the cost of La Coste fabric,to be used in wall acoustic.

Lacoste???  Mahal yan pare.....hehehehe 

[ricky]

Lacoste???  Mahal yan pare.....hehehehe 

baka low cost yan joel? kung mag la lacoste ka try mo na yung ralph lauren or armani fabrics

[streetsmart]

Walang hiya kayo! 

Mura lacoste. Por kilo ang bilihan nun sa Divisoria. 

[sanmig_ph]

Lacoste???  Mahal yan pare.....hehehehe 

baka low cost yan joel? kung mag la lacoste ka try mo na yung ralph lauren or armani fabrics

pare hindi buwaya, butiki na la coste hehehe, loko ka ricky pinapatawa mo na naman kami eh.

1st - Madali lang ang bass trap. Just get the rockwool na 2" x 2' x 4'. Ipatong patong mo para maging 6" x 2' x 4' or even 8'. Gawa ka ng box na plywood which is open on both sides. Constrain the rockwool through some string or nylo. Then takpan mo ng acoustically-transparent tela. The best for me is La Coste. Ang alam ko is that this is about P50 or less per yard (pagalingan na lang ng tawad) sa Divisoria.

2nd - The simplest is to cover full front wall and the front side walls with 2" rockwool. Then takpan mo ng tela with a plastic frame that snaps the tela in place. Alamin ko lang where to get that plastic frame. Kung gusto mo magtipid, siguro kahit 4' lang ang height ng rockwool but centered on the wall.

3rd - Sa rear side walls and rear wall, dapat diffusive sya so bookshelves or dvd racks will be okay. Or lagyan mo ng slats, similar sa ginawa ni alvinthx2.

4th - Lagyan mo ng carpet ang flooring.

I think that should be the most basic.

sir mark thanks po.

[Munskie]

Heto yung link ng Home Theater Calculator.....


http://www.carltonbale.com/home-theater/home-theater-calculator/

The spreadsheet contains calculations for the following:

    * recommended viewing distances for a given screen size - for both flat panels and projectors (based on THX and SMPTE standards)
    * recommended viewing distances for a given display resolution - 480p, 720p, 1080p/1080i, 1440p, etc (based on Visual Acuity standards)
    * various screen aspect ratios (4:3, 16:9, 1.85:1, 2.35:1, custom ratios, etc.)
    * projector screen size & screen brightness with guidelines for recommended values (based on projector brightness and screen gain)
    * projector screen size & projector mounting location (based on min/max projector throw distances)
    * seat locations, a second row stadium seating platform height calculation, and a few other goodies.

[audiojunkie]

Hi! Here's the 2nd draft. Sorry medyo tumagal busy kasi Lately.
Same thing... Any suggestions and recommendations are very much welcome and appreciated! 

Your architect has no enough knowledge on HT Design.... just my 2pesos...    

[spenz]

@spenz,

AV Driver surely has the lighting controls. Lutron yata. I am pretty sure that Listening in Style should also have them.

Thanks sir, i'll check that out. I've already inquired at adlib,whoo! Ang mahal pala ng lighting control system nayan.70k ang binigay sakin na package for one room only.

[spenz]

Your architect has no enough knowledge on HT Design.... just my 2pesos...    

hehehe bolahin mo lolo mong panut! Well I'm pretty happy and very satisfied with the 2nd draft he made so far and the best thing is it's free of charge.

[spenz]

Guys any idea how much is the cost of La Coste fabric,to be used in wall acoustic.

Bro wow class ah! Be sure nalang to check that lacoste fabric is acoustically transparent enough to capture early reflections.

[streetsmart]

Thanks sir, i'll check that out. I've already inquired at adlib,whoo! Ang mahal pala ng lighting control system nayan.70k ang binigay sakin na package for one room only.

Yes, your cost is right. AV Driver also carries Crestron. Cheaper sya. Maybe 50k. 

[Munskie]

I have one lighting control in my HT room.    Fades from on to off in 60 seconds.   Lutron Maestro.   Also has a remote, and can be contolled by a learning remote.    Lutron Maestro dimmer.    Wala pa 3k gastos ko.....110 nga lang dapat linya, coz I imported it from US.