Topic: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?

[allan1836]

Naturally, whenever the subject of premium cabling for home a/v systems comes up, the important question arises: does wire really matter? 
The answer is that sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't, and that when it does, it's a purely subjective question whether the improvement in sound or picture is really worth it.  Because we've seen some rather odd products being sold and some rather strange claims being made, we feel it might  help to take a quick, common-sense look at the cables in your a/v system and ask what they do and whether, and why, it matters.
This is where things turn subjective.  Better cables will deliver cleaner signals throughout your a/v system; that's a fact, which can be objectively proven.

You said it! "subjective " is the key word. I use a Diamond 9.1 worth 5.5T (pesos nga lang  ) and speaker/ic wire and power cables about 2T (pesos uli!) I can also hear a lot of instrument details!!! Soundstaging is also awesome ( I can pick out the drummer, guitarist etc. also). But I don't get paranoid watching movies, though, I get thrilled with exciting scenes.   
My point is whether you have a megabuck system and cables or an entry level system, the appreciation and enjoyment is within yourself. I tend to believe that when you believe or assume to believe that a thing works, then it really works!! It's not the price tag nor the technology that should be the factor (though a lot of audiophile snobs embrace this criteria)  but one's satisfaction and contentment.

Probably, objectively, one can prove a certain cable is cleaner through sophisticated lab equipments but on actual usage on a average home with little acoustic treatment, It will be very hard to define or substantiate how clean is clean among cables.   

Just my opinion ... 

[Lancito]

I'd buy an IWC if I had money pero if wala, a swatch would suffice.  Both would still tell me the time.

[allan1836]

I'd buy an IWC if I had money pero if wala, a swatch would suffice.  Both would still tell me the time.

Exactly my point.  Though the IWC might give a more 3 dimensional time !  But I was intrigue by the "stressfree" cables, sana meron din stressfree wife !! 

[Weng!]

I'd buy an IWC if I had money pero if wala, a swatch would suffice.  Both would still tell me the time.

korek, and both are made in switzerland

[ATJr.]

Ganyan talaga ang reasoning ng mga salat sa salapi, hahaha

oo nga, kung salat ka na nga sa pananalapi, tapos bibile kapa nyang cexotic cables, baka naman magutom ang pamilya mo....just go for the affordable ones....be practical ika nga....anyway you miss nothing in terms of performance....

[esuante]

And you must break-in your cables for a few weeks.

[pabili]

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf
http://www.acrolink.jp/english/products/6n_a2050_2.html
http://www.belden.com/07Markets/07_Entertainment.cfm
http://www.kimber.com/

This sites might help you and understand that expensive wires really works.  You would be encountering products like Oxygen Free, StressFree Cables etc

Eh sir, yung ke belden medyo makatotohanan po - saka talagang matagal ng gumagawa ng kable yan sa mga telecomms applications.

Yung kay acrolink, ewan ko lang po. Kasi alam ko marami ng anomalya tungkol diyan sa mga 6N copper. Maganda ang sinabi kung talagang ginawa. Pero yung mga balita, binili lang sa mga cheap manufacturer saka lang tinatakan, at ibenta ng mahal. Pwede pa nga hong pagtalunan kung makakakuha ka ng 6N sa pabrika nila (mas mahirap pa yan kung wala naman silang pabrika talaga). Maganda sa papel - I mean sa papel, hindi sa wire.

Yung kay audioquest, tama naman sinabi niya don, yun lang medyo nasobrahan (ng todo po) - yung audio na tinutukoy nya don, sa high power broadcasting - hindi home audio. Parang pinalalabas niya don, parang broadcast size yung home audio power. Totoo po yung mga nakasulat doon, yun nga lang, di totoo sa home audio applications. Yung mga di naaral ang broadcast audio, yung yung napapaniwala at napapabili ng mga ito.

Yung kimber, medyo pinaghalong kuwento at katotohanan, pinaghalong broadcast at bahay - parang audioquest din sila. Parang nagpagupit po kayo ng buhok at may bonus na kwento sa mga nanggugupit.

Yung high current cable po - gauge size lang ang usapan diyan.
yung break-in po, baka burn-in po. wala pong ganyang bagay. burn-out ang alam ko - yung nasobrahan sa kuryente, natunaw kasama ng insulator.

Maganda ho yung suggestion ng isang naringgan ko dito, ginawa ko, effective.

once in a while, tanggalin nyo yung mga audio connections nyo (monthly), bombahan nyo ng WD40 ba yon (o HD40 o RD40 o LD40) saka nyo isaksak ulit - parang bumili na kayo ng high end wire nyan - stress free na rin si wire, kasi medyo tutuklabin nya yung mga oxidation sa mga contact ng wires which causes high resistance to your high current flow.

[JojoD818]

if you see someone using expensive cables then be very quiet and listen... he may have heard something that made him get that expensive cable, then try so very hard to find out for yourself if you can hear it also.

if you don't hear any difference then be very thankful... you don't have to spend so much to satisfy your ears.

and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.

[ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ]

and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.

i second sir jojod818...

[av_phile1]

if you see someone using expensive cables then be very quiet and listen... he may have heard something that made him get that expensive cable, then try so very hard to find out for yourself if you can hear it also.

if you don't hear any difference then be very thankful... you don't have to spend so much to satisfy your ears.

and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.

Yup, that should be the most prudent thing to do as it's part of social etiquette.

But this thread asks for your belief.  And I suppose one has to substantiate his/her belief when you aver to it on a forum like this.  And the real risk there is that a thread like this can develop into attacking each other's beliefs.     And we all know that in this hobby, cables can be such a contentious subject.  We've had so many cable wars in the past.  Maybe this one will yet become  cable wars 2008.   

[XXXyzledge]

if you see someone using expensive cables then be very quiet and listen... he may have heard something that made him get that expensive cable, then try so very hard to find out for yourself if you can hear it also.

if you don't hear any difference then be very thankful... you don't have to spend so much to satisfy your ears.

and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.

+1 for sir Jojo!!!

for me, kanya-kanyang trip yan.....
walang apakan ng trip!

seriously, imho, synergy is also a factor....
synergy with ur other gears that is...

if u have class A system (amps cdp etc)
would u dare use ordinary wires on it?

 

[streetsmart]

Maganda ho yung suggestion ng isang naringgan ko dito, ginawa ko, effective.

once in a while, tanggalin nyo yung mga audio connections nyo (monthly), bombahan nyo ng WD40 ba yon (o HD40 o RD40 o LD40) saka nyo isaksak ulit - parang bumili na kayo ng high end wire nyan - stress free na rin si wire, kasi medyo tutuklabin nya yung mga oxidation sa mga contact ng wires which causes high resistance to your high current flow.

You should use a "Contact Cleaner" like "Electra," not just WD40.

Aside from minimizing corrosion, you also make sure that your connections are tight. Kasi with all the vibration + whatever, many connections tend to loosen over time. Masama tunog kasi d nga tight.

In my experience, if you do this regularly, you get no cable problems. I've been doing this more than 10 years with my system and I have never had a cable problem. *Knock on wood.* 

[ATJr.]

Maybe this one will yet become  cable wars 2008.   

hindi naman siguro, kasi mukhang natuto na mga tao, they are singing quite a different tune...they are becoming more practical these days....which is good....

this is the beauty of open disscusions, you can see the best of both worlds, without having to spend so much...

and to those who are able to save money because they refrained from buying those exotic cables, bili naman kayo ng dvd dito....

[allan1836]

hindi naman siguro, kasi mukhang natuto na mga tao, they are singing quite a different tune...they are becoming more practical these days....which is good....

this is the beauty of open disscusions, you can see the best of both worlds, without having to spend so much...

and to those who are able to save money because they refrained from buying those exotic cables, bili naman kayo ng dvd dito....

Tama kayo sir, the best and noticeable upgrade to a system is a high quality software, whether, for audio or video.   

[audiojunkie]

I believe that expensive cables works ONLY if they're matched to your gears... vice versa with cheap or generic cables..     

[pabili]

hindi naman siguro, kasi mukhang natuto na mga tao, they are singing quite a different tune...they are becoming more practical these days....which is good....

this is the beauty of open disscusions, you can see the best of both worlds, without having to spend so much...

and to those who are able to save money because they refrained from buying those exotic cables, bili naman kayo ng dvd dito....

Medyo nahahalata na rin po pala ninyo! Medyo maganda rin naman paminsan minsan, itsa challenge ang mga paniniwalang 'yan - for their benefits din naman yan.

[jerix]

I just got my 16' (5mtrs) cheap generic worth only P700 HDMI cable. I hope this will perform good as well. 

[ATJr.]

Medyo nahahalata na rin po pala ninyo! Medyo maganda rin naman paminsan minsan, itsa challenge ang mga paniniwalang 'yan - for their benefits din naman yan.

nowadays, they call it "synergy", i can live with that, hindi na siguro mauulit yung time na kinumog si "joffkevsky"........

[kojie]

IMO, kung may difference talaga with really expensive cables then siguro they would have shown sound graphs with comparison with the lows, mids and high of a good quality cable made by belden compared monster cables. Medyo mahirap lang kse sa topic na ito is that walang real scientific proof that everyone can backup. Manufacturers can prove the difference in build quality but how about the sonic differences? Unlike sa other technologies which show the difference between different brands. For example Computer Video cards which they can compare with frame rate test of various games or a simple 3dMark. With Memory modules they test the bandwidth with synthetic benchmarks.... etc

Just my observation and my .02 cents.

[fnvillafuerte]

IMO, kung may difference talaga with really expensive cables then siguro they would have shown sound graphs with comparison with the lows, mids and high of a good quality cable made by belden compared monster cables. Medyo mahirap lang kse sa topic na ito is that walang real scientific proof that everyone can backup. Manufacturers can prove the difference in build quality but how about the sonic differences? Unlike sa other technologies which show the difference between different brands. For example Computer Video cards which they can compare with frame rate test of various games or a simple 3dMark. With Memory modules they test the bandwidth with synthetic benchmarks.... etc

Just my observation and my .02 cents.

True.  Kaya nga ako, I buy expenseve (but not exceeding 1Kpesos) cables not for better sound but for durability, tightness of connection and good looks.  Compared kasi generic na cables (P35-P100) vs cables costing P350-P1,000, malayong mas matibay at mahigpit kumapit yung mas mahal kasi makapal at quality materials ang ginamit.  Saka ang copper na ginamit sa mas mahal na cables ay mas puro at OFC pa kaya iwas-corrosion.  Isa pa, ang ganda ng harap ng gears natin, pag sinilip sa likod, maganda ring tingnan kung pulido ang mga interconnects na ginamit.

[kojie]

True.  Kaya nga ako, I buy expenseve (but not exceeding 1Kpesos) cables not for better sound but for durability, tightness of connection and good looks.  Compared kasi generic na cables (P35-P100) vs cables costing P350-P1,000, malayong mas matibay at mahigpit kumapit yung mas mahal kasi makapal at quality materials ang ginamit.  Saka ang copper na ginamit sa mas mahal na cables ay mas puro at OFC pa kaya iwas-corrosion.  Isa pa, ang ganda ng harap ng gears natin, pag sinilip sa likod, maganda ring tingnan kung pulido ang mga interconnects na ginamit.

Yep ako rin i didn't buy the cheapest ones bec. i wanted one with good build quality and yung nakikita ko na mukhang matibay, pero yung hindi very expensive. I also don't agree with speaker wire burn-in, unless somebody can show me that there is lesser resistance when cables are used for a couple of weeks. 

[kojie]

Btw, Pear took the challenge but backed out. They will original wanted to test a Pear Anjou cables or the Transparent Opus MM SC cables – vs. a set of Monster Z2R ML-10/10

In this case monster would be the cheaper one(~$149 per 10 feet). hehehe

[ycire]

Well this things are really serious matter before you start setting up a audiophile system you have to ask yourself if you have enough spare cash and guts to spend because most of High End quality are really worth buying and it gives a remarkable results. Example you have to start with the area your music room should have a nice acoustic walls,floors and enough space then you should spend with your system this area is really scary and addictive and much to learn that's why if you're holding back with your budget and comparing price to your cables you better think again if your pocket can handle this hobby happy listening.

[ycire]

Never compromise your listening habits to a common denominator and I'll always trust your ears Happy Listening!

[newbie pa rin]

for those with limited budget like me.
rule of thumb is alot certain percentage of the whole cost.

Say heres the cost of your gears
Fronts - 35K
Center - 20K
surrounds - 20K
Screen - 40K
Player - 20K
Poweramp - 25K
Receiver - 30K

Budget for interconnects and cables - 7.5K or 5% of the whole cost

Does expensive cable work?
Do you mean if its cheap I wont hear any sound since its cheap it will not work.
or do you mean expensive cable sounds better than cheap ones.
Better sound is subjective.
What sounds better for you might not sound better for me.
Or we might agree that it does sounds better from our point of view.

Unless we have a base value to start with where we can see if the value increases or decreases by changing the cables then thats the only time we can conclude that using expensive cables we see an increase in the base value.
Given that an increase in base value means a better sound.

For me who don't have a golden ear doon ako sa afford ko.
I can see the difference in sound characteristics in using a coax and an optic cable.
The problem is I don't know which one I like.
Same issue might arise if I change into an expensive cable.

Others uses expense as their base value so the more expensive the higher the increase in the value so they can conclude its better sounding.

Though sound is subjective we can narrow it a bit if we take into consideration the following:
R&D put into it
Each and every materials put into it
Build and make up
Technology
...you might want to add some more

[ycire]

“I use Abbey Road reference speaker cable in my room and
it sounds fantastic. The clarity, dynamics, and sense of space you achieve from these cables is nothing short of astounding. I always want to use the best equipment possible and this cable
was the obvious choice.”

[ycire]

Cable is the purist-audiophile’s favorite tool for manipulating the
frequency balance and other qualities of his/her system. Active
equalizers/tone controls are just not transparent-sounding enough
for many listeners to be considered as part of a high-quality system.
What is left to balance the response and sound of the system
in the audiophile’s listening room is choice of components, especially
cables, which are less expensive than components, and so
are easier to switch when you need a change. Cables interact with
components to at least some degree, so their sound is always context-
sensitive, which is why most outlets allow you to audition
them with your own equipment.
For this review I first listened to a selection of high-end cables
from the US company Kimber and the Supra company out of
Sweden. Both are well-established, reputable audio companies. A
comparative study lets you test many different qualities in different
models, and also allows the ear to hone in on the exact characteristic
sound of individual favorites.

[accastil]

yup, they do..but only if they are properly matched with the rest of the gears along the path.

imo, expensive cables could have an equivalent in the "not-so-expensive" class. its just a lot of work trying to find the proper synergy from the many options.

[MAtZTER]

*I have tried the Kimber 8tc (loaned) that costs 2100/meter on my system. With all its raves & awards (& higher cost) I was expecting it to blow me away but it just didnt, a cheaper branded wire sounded better (for ME, since this is a subjective hobby) for my system. Again COST is not the key.

*I sold a subwoofer because the interconnects I was using was not matched. I changed it to another & it sounded great but I was already committed to selling it.  :'(

*Multi awarded QED interconnects, didnt match my system, doesnt mean its bad. Just didnt match my system according to my taste.

*I switched my IXOS braided cable that used to be connected to my LF (via bi-amp), connected it to the HF instead. Frequent visitor came to demo that day and was frowning the whole demo time, he later commented something was wrong with my system. Thats when I revealed that I switched the wires before he came. The cable did not match when used at the HF as I suspected.

Again:

S-Y-N-E-R-G-Y

This is the Key!

peace! everything above is in the subjective realm.

[kojie]

Maganda sigurong idea kung magkaron ng double blind test ang pinoydvd community. Everybody will listen first while knowing which cables are being used. Then we get the statistics by each one listening to the same sound/song while guessing which cable was used. If we use 3 different cables then we let each one listen 9 times while interchanging the cable each time so we let them guess 9 times. Magandang experiment to for the sake of our community and will be very informative to all.  The main objective will be to differentiate expensive cables with other cables of good build quality just to see if the difference is really there. So we won't focus on which one sounds better.

I wonder why expensive cable manufacturers never show sound graphs of various tests they do to compare with other cables? If anybody has a link showing a sound graph of any tests they made please post it maybe it will give us more info regarding our discussion.