Author Topic: Please arrange - good, better, best (Denon, Oppo, Pioneer) Upscalers  (Read 2984 times)

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Offline byron

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Hi,
I've been reading a lot about these upscaler/DVD players here in Pinoy DVD, and I would just like to ask all of your opinion and rate these 3 products (say the Oppo 981, the Pio DV600, and their equivalent in Denon) on a good-better-best arrangement... AND WHY?

thanks!

Offline JT

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OPPO 983H is the best rated so far ... got a score of 100%!!!
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-dvd-player-product-reviews/dvd-players/oppo-digital-dv-983h-dvd-player---a-secrets-dvd-benchmark-review.html


Specifications
Codecs: SD DVD, DVD-A, SACD
Upsampling: 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
MPEG Decoder: Mediatek 1389/S
De-interlacer: Anchor Bay Technology ABT-102
Audio Frequency Response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 1 dB
Outputs: HDMI, Component, S-Video, Composite, Digital Coaxial, Digital Toslink, 7.1 Analog
Dimensions: 2" H x 16.8" W x 10.5" D
Weight: 5 Pounds
MSRP: $399 USA


Offline taurus_cute

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MY PAL BYRON: Kindly take the brief time to read my post on upscaling DVD units, foremostly the DENON. The post is titled TOSHIBA XA-2 VS. DENON 2930 & 3930 and its posted in the HD-DVD/BLU-RAY HARDWARE category. I won't espoused to you in a partisan way the Denon, you be the judged, but if you're intent on getting the best picture resolution out of the DVD, then its imperative that you take a player with superb video processors and that it'll proved to be an equipment that you'll likely used for the next five or more years. Thank you.

Offline byron

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thanks Taurus_Cute, JT,
I really appreciate your inputs.  will review both Denon and Oppo.  A bit pricey though. 

Do you know where I can get Denon and Oppo players in Manila?

Many thanks!

Offline taurus_cute

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THE MAIN "RAISON" for an upscaling DVD player is to technically perfect an image when shown on a big screen TV. This means that if your television is pretty conventional in size and has no digital connectors - then an upscaler is largely useless or only has a very limited incremental benefit. For TVs below 40 inches in screen size and only has the RCA and S-Video connections, an upscaler is incongruent. The only chances that a benefit could be drawn is when you have a brand like the Sony Wega with its superior comb filters coupled with a DVD player equipped with video processors like the Faroudja DCDi chip. Even at a mere 27-inch, the driving prowess of the DCDi would truly accentuate a Sony Wega's full picture potential - but only through S-Video.

When the picture is "magnified" to a screen starting from 40 and up to 100 inches, even up to 300 inches - the strength or weakness of the source is also magnified. If you'll show a copy of the black & white documentary "Minsan Lang Sila Bata" (child labor) on VCD through a 42-inch LCD or beamed through a projector at 100 inch, the datedness of the film and its inferior reproduction would be glaringly magnified also, you'll likely not finished the film because it looks soft, has poor contrast, and pixelated. This is where an upscaler is needed. It will enhanced, improved the picture so that you're given a more satisfying viewing experience.

A scaler is originally made to support front projectors. Those projectors doesn't looked impressive initially, they're huge but the picture is mediocre. But when Sam Runco thought this fiendish idea of embedding a scaler with his 9-inch CRT projectors, that was the start of getting upscalers for a more widespread use on consumer electronics.

I personally have not considered the OPPO closely because its initial video scalers during its first and second generation models could not hold a candle to the Faroudja in any measure. If you have tried DCDi, touted as a premiere scaler or de-interlacer, why retrograde to a lesser video chip? The Oppo caused a sensation because its able to embed in itself a scaler but with a price thats affordable for anyone. But even aesthetically, the Oppo does not look that respectable. But for folks who're just starting out with home theater and feels they're not yet ready for front projection - then the Oppo is a good start.

Take time to consider Denons. The model I would cite to you is the 2930, because this stands alone in the Denon line-up where its equipped with a video chip thats more advanced than the Faroudja, its not outrageously priced and you feel safe and assured that if you have it you're using a state of the art and a reference-grade player. For me, no Sony or Pioneers could hold a candle to its video processing or its video DACS (for component cable output). With HDMI, its pure visual bliss.

You may get a most reasonable quote for the Denon from PETER FALSIS. His shop is located in West Avenue in Quezon City. Contact no. 0917-516-5285 or 374-8669. For the Oppo, its likely its being sold by Theater Works. I've never been personally to these shops as I'm in the province.

Offline MAtZTER

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I dont recommend the Pioneer DV-600 for front projection setups. On a big screen, its filled with "mosquito noise" that I cant seem to remove at whatever setting. Even my Onkyo 705's video processing could not remove that noise. So my DV-600 is now with my bedroom setup.

Offline taurus_cute

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MY PAL BYRON: Yes, the contact no. I've stated is where you can reached MR. FALSIS. His shop is named Cyber-Pro before, they specialized in Onkyo as well as Pioneer. Among the three or four A/V shops I know who also carries the Denon DVD line, his' gives the best value.

The P60,000 he quoted for the Denon 2930 is the "opening" price they state for purely mercantile purpose - to be able to survive. Hence, if you do proceed with a resolve to consider it very closely you OUGHT to bargain for at least 10 to 15 percent discounting. Thats - at least for me - is de rigueur or a given when purchasing such machines.

The beauty of the 2930 is that it delivers a close to immaculate picture for both standard TV and front projection. Its a do-all solution for both methods. Whereas in my evaluation, the 3930 is a wasteful and a certified overkill when used for a TV, no matter if its 27 to 70 inches in sizes. That machine gives a very bright image, delivering the best shadow details for your DVDs, but the black level is somehow the element that got inadvertently compromised as a result of the inherent brightness. Hence, my guess is that the 3930 is built with front projection in mind, to be used to deliver a gigantic picture that could withstand resolution scrutiny. It'll do that with aplomb but the REALTA video chip is also very powerful that it also exposes in no flattering ways a source's poor or inferior quality. Because not everytime could a DVD be pressed or mastered with a reference-grade quality, the ones with a routine or just-fair video quality would be mercilessly "exposed" by the 3930 of its weakness.

The 2930, on the other hand, gives the best black level value, a gorgeous image that you're bound to appreciate although there's a perceptible motion judder on it. But it won't take the thrill away. Only the video perfectionists would go for the 3930 as its current market pricing is around P30,000 more than the 2930.

As to the Pioneers and Sonys, they seemed to passed by in my radar for many years now. My complaint about their DVD line is that both sternly refuses to employ any special video scaler like the Faroudja or Reon or the ABT or the Genesis. Instead they used their "proprietary" tricks to squeezed a heightened level of video quality on their machines, often the method is to simply raised the Video DACS to as much as "14/216 bits." Thats fine if you assumed that 9 out of 10 users would go the Component cable route, but raising the DACS is near insignificant if the user wisely chooses HDMI.

I hope this helps in your query about the essential-ness of a scaler.
« Last Edit: Mar 07, 2008 at 03:41 PM by taurus_cute »

Offline JT

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Review-wise and experience-wise, OPPO and DENON are top upscaler players. Ive tried OPPO 970 for sometime and now I have Denon 1930. I think not widely available there and quite expensive.

For budget players and availability, I go for Pioneer and Samsung.



 

Offline MAtZTER

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For 60k for a Denon 29 series DVD player, I would think its going to be a more practical move to just wait for the local release of the well reviewed Onkyo 875 with Reon HQV upscaling and just upconvert all sources (DVD vhs, etc etc.) through the internal processor?

Even if the 875 is sold for lets say:70k,  its still an awesome bargain considering you got the powerful THX ultra receiver portion for just an additional 10k.

Just thinking.  :)

Offline byron

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whoa... I never did thought that these kinds of DVD players would be at an astronomical price range...

would anybody know any nice/nifty/good/performer DVD players under 10K aside from the pioneer DV600?

thanks!

Offline MAtZTER

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The cheapest Denon player is already near 20k.There is no Denon DVD player under 10k so you need to modify the topic and add "under 10k"  :D

There is another topic "best upscaler under 7k"  and this topic mioght merge with that one.

Hehe, no need to be surprised when we are in a "sky" is the limit" hobby.  :D

 
« Last Edit: Mar 07, 2008 at 05:39 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline byron

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Hi Matzter,
hahaha i think i'll refer to the topic under 7k... i was under the impression that DVD players were around 5-10k depending on brand/model/etc...

60k for a player sounds super steep for my budget... it costs very near to the pana 50 incher plasma na. 

some day - i'll get one of these.

thanks!

Offline MAtZTER

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If only I can afford it, I want the Meridian G90 something that upscales SD to an amazing HD image using a flagship faroudja chip. Its also a 5x100w digital receiver.

It costs Eight thousand lang naman... US dollars.  ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 07, 2008 at 05:54 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline byron

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YIKES!

8T USD???  hmmm

for something this expensive - i would suppose PQ and other aspects should be top notch!

I am a believer of "you get what you pay for" but this seems extreme...

but never the less - I WILL BUY THIS IF I HAVE THE EXTRA CASH

BWAHAHAHAHHA

Offline MAtZTER

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Top notch? OH YES. I saw it upscale SD images on a 103" plasma. I became a believer in video processors after that experience.


Offline Weng!

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are those faroudja DCDi processors found on hi-end denon dvdp are far more superior than the ones fitted in their mid to hi-end receivers?

Offline MAtZTER

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Check them out on the web, they will have the Faroudja chip code mentioned here & there.

But dont count on any manufacturer to put top scalers on every model. Surely, they will reserve this for top models. Everything comes with a cost and remember that receivers are all in one budget boxes. It would also be a silly business strategy to put top chips on low models cuz nobody's gonna get your higher models anymore.

What I saw with these faroudja chips while researching for my receiver is that the ones they bundle for free were the top scalers from long ago. Just like the PC video cards that bundle the once high & mighty video cards to your latest motherboards.

Offline Moks007

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Review-wise and experience-wise, OPPO and DENON are top upscaler players. Ive tried OPPO 970 for sometime and now I have Denon 1930. I think not widely available there and quite expensive.

For budget players and availability, I go for Pioneer and Samsung.



 

Hi Jt/or anybody out there.., may I ask how is the Denon 1930 and approx how much is it? Pls pm me..Do you think I should get this or the oppo 981? How do they compare kaya? I want a really nice dvd player for my dvd library, cant afford the 2930 ;D Thanks

Offline Weng!

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are those faroudja DCDi processors found on hi-end denon dvdp are far more superior than the ones fitted in their mid to hi-end receivers?

read from their website that denon 2308 and 2808 uses Faroudja DCDi FLi2310 scalers. This is also the chip used in OPPO 981. so, para na rin pala akong naka OPPO 981 when using only a pio dv600 ;D . may kasama pang USB ang dv600 where as ang 983 and 980 ng OPPO lang ang may USB. my best bet is to upgrade to OPPO 983 and hook it straight to the TV to put less strain on the receiver.

Offline iiinas

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definitely pioneer (good), denon (better), oppo (best). generally speaking.  ;)

Offline dyerds

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Whoa! 60k dvd player!?! I won't even spend 30k on a BDP! I hope...  ;D If you really want a top of the line player why don't get Oppo DV983H? I've heard that it is around 20k and a good upscaler.  ;) Wait for the reviews after the shoot-out between this player and some other players like BDP's.  ;)

Disclaimer: You need to buy this outside of the country.  ;D

Offline MAtZTER

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Whoa! 60k dvd player!?!

I was reviewing my HT magazines a few days ago & Arcam, Linn, has some 100+k DVD players.

High end Lexicon, Krell DVD players can cost up to 200k or up. ;D
« Last Edit: Jun 30, 2008 at 11:57 AM by MAtZTER »

Offline dyerds

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Gees! Pang-down na ng kotse yan ah! Sayang kung pwede lang ako sumakay sa ganyang player pwede na rin.  :D

Offline byron

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wow... that is really something very expensive for a DVD player... i think these must be using special chips for image processing - more for broadcasting purposes?

Offline taurus_cute

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THE BEST DVD players are manufactured by entity with their own Research & Development & Manufacturing base. Its not just R & D but add too an M. But the titans like Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Oppo, and their ilks is foremostly oriented to the mass/consumer market. The main point is to move millions of units, without much regard for ownership prestige or gratify the creature known as the videophile.

But videophiles would possess anything that delivers the best possible picture. He's a perfectionist, consumed, and resolute to grab the highest possible image standard his resources could get. This is the kind of creature that the Denon brand is made for. I could also mentioned Marantz, Onkyo & Yamaha but Denon is the consummate trailblazer among the league.

Denon is a perfectionist's brand, and it has the requisite R & D & M. A $20,000 DVD from Theta or Classe or Meridian might be encased in a golden chassis, but the innards, the system, chances are - is actually a Sony or a Philips. Their racket, their modus operandi, is to "souped up" the system by embedding or replacing for more quality parts, especially towards the audio & video DACS, the scalers, the deinterlacers and the disk spinning platform. After all these (largely cosmetic) alterations are done, they put in their fabled, mystique-laden labels - cleverly presuming that the same marketing scheme done for Jaguars, Benzes, Lincolns, Audis & BMWs can be carried too in the DVD transport market.

Denon offers the best of both worlds: Perfectionist video standard obtainable through qualifiably democratic pricing. Its never cheap, that is a monetary given, let it be understood. But Denon's pricing is tempered and within a certain sane limit. Its never outrageous, imposing prices that shoots up to the stratosphere. The Denon top of the line DVD player is the $3,500 5910A universal. It has the Realta chip. If you balked at this value, then go to the 3930ci model, it has the same "holy grail of video" Realta chip but selling for considerably less at the local pricing of P78,000. If you still balked and howl over 78k then get the 2930ci - its priced at least 40% less, and it has the Reon chip, Realta's little brother. If you still have moral qualms spending that much, go for the 1930ci - it has the best Faroudja-DCDi video chip you could obtained right now. Thus all price points are covered and no one misses the chance of owning the Denon.

Now after DVD, the next video frontier is the Blu Ray. Denon covers that too. It has the BD3800, the 2500 and a third lesser version. The 3800 - in theory - is the most competent player on the present market. First, because it gives Realta processing to DVD (upconversion, scaling, etc.) and two, because it plays Blu Ray. But a Denon brethren is about to unveil its own Blu Ray weapon and this one looks even more formidable.

The MARANTZ BD8002 is stated to offer the same capacity as the BD3800 but words from the insiders hinted that it gives better overall video quality. The price: estimatedly P103,000+. Is that outrageous? At the very least that remains in a saner limit, morally better than paying Meridian $8,000 for a DVD player that has a cloud of a technical Emperor's New Cloth casts around it.

Offline JT

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Hi Jt/or anybody out there.., may I ask how is the Denon 1930 and approx how much is it? Pls pm me..Do you think I should get this or the oppo 981? How do they compare kaya? I want a really nice dvd player for my dvd library, cant afford the 2930 ;D Thanks

Hey sorry I just saw this one. 1930 no longer available, 1940 is at 450sgd (15k php).