Topic: SD vs BD vs Downloads

[barrister]

Even in pinoydvd, I notice that more and more members are getting a Popcorn Hour player.

[juanch]

Even in pinoydvd, I notice that more and more members are getting a Popcorn Hour player.

noticed that too, I was itching to get popcorn hour but decided against it.

I'm one of those who still like collecting physical discs.
I also enjoy looking at my collection on the display shelf.

But I am pretty sure that majority of consumers will embrace downloads over BD.

[frootloops]

Nowadays....

Music = iPod
Movies = NMT

But there are still those who buy LP's,CD's & DVD's. I think,after several weeks of crossing the thin line, I will still be a part of the buying market. 

[stickfighter]

Nowadays....

Music = iPod
Movies = NMT

But there are still those who buy LP's,CD's & DVD's. I think,after several weeks of crossing the thin line, I will still be a part of the buying market. 

So true, but i still like buying dvd's...especially limited/collectors and steelbook editions!

[streetsmart]

I’ve completed a lot of the preparation for Shoot-out II this Saturday at 2 pm, including a 4-hour video calibration session with the AV Driver technician last night. PQ has improved a lot. The tentative plan is as follows:

VIDEO SHOOT-OUT
Players:
1. Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray player, outputting 1080p native
2. Popcorn DCH-100, upscaled from 720p to 1080p internally
3. Oppo 980, upscaled from 480i to 1080p internally
4. Pioneer DV-696 (very similar to the 600), outputting 480i and then with complete video processing by DVDO Iscan VP50Pro

Material will be “Batman Begins,” basically because we have copies for all types of players, including Popcorn. Besides, pq is very good. We intend to have 3 challenging scenes: dark, bright and action.

All sources will be individually calibrated for brightness and contrast but only the Pio 696 will go through a full video processing by the VP50Pro.

Projector will be a Sony VPL-VW100, 1080p, using a 120” Da-Lite High Power screen. I can assure everyone that the pq will be awesome for ALL sources, but … of course better for some.

The tests will be blind. No one except me and @iiinaslao will know which player is being used. Tentatively, the plan will be for each participant to give a grade to each player for each scene viewed. The tentative criteria are:
1. Detail
2. Jaggies (or lack of it … basically the stair-steps or waves you can see on diagonal lines)
3. Color saturation and accuracy
4. Sharpness, without edge enhancement (this will be explained)

We will determine the rankings of the players per scene, per criterion and overall rankings.

AUDIO SHOOT-OUT
This will be a blind test, comparing Dolby TruHD vs. Dolby Digital. The Panny BD30 will be used and the tentative material will be the following:
1. Blade Runner (sound effects and conversation)
2. Chicago (sound effects, conversation, music)
3. Legends of Jazz (music)

The participants will only be asked to guess which film clip used Dolby TruHD. I can assure everyone that this will be a very challenging test. There is a difference but it’s subtle, depending on the source material.

Any suggestions are most welcome. There are still some available slots so if anyone else wants to participate, he can send me a PM.

[eksi]

I’ve completed a lot of the preparation for Shoot-out II this Saturday at 2 pm, including a 4-hour video calibration session with the AV Driver technician last night. PQ has improved a lot. The tentative plan is as follows:

VIDEO SHOOT-OUT
Players:
1. Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray player, outputting 1080p native
2. Popcorn DCH-100, upscaled from 720p to 1080p internally
3. Oppo 980, upscaled from 720p to 1080p internally
4. Pioneer DV-696 (very similar to the 600), outputting 480i and then with complete video processing by DVDO Iscan VP50Pro

Material will be “Batman Begins,” basically because we have copies for all types of players, including Popcorn. Besides, pq is very good. We intend to have 3 challenging scenes: dark, bright and action.

All sources will be individually calibrated for brightness and contrast but only the Pio 696 will go through a full video processing by the VP50Pro.

Projector will be a Sony VPL-VW100, 1080p, using a 120” Da-Lite High Power screen. I can assure everyone that the pq will be awesome for ALL sources, but … of course better for some.

The tests will be blind. No one except me and @iiinaslao will know which player is being used. Tentatively, the plan will be for each participant to give a grade to each player for each scene viewed. The tentative criteria are:
1. Detail
2. Jaggies (or lack of it … basically the stair-steps or waves you can see on diagonal lines)
3. Color saturation and accuracy
4. Sharpness, without edge enhancement (this will be explained)

We will determine the rankings of the players per scene, per criterion and overall rankings.

AUDIO SHOOT-OUT
This will be a blind test, comparing Dolby TruHD vs. Dolby Digital. The Panny BD30 will be used and the tentative material will be the following:
1. Blade Runner (sound effects and conversation)
2. Chicago (sound effects, conversation, music)
3. Legends of Jazz (music)

The participants will only be asked to guess which film clip used Dolby TruHD. I can assure everyone that this will be a very challenging test. There is a difference but it’s subtle, depending on the source material.

Any suggestions are most welcome. There are still some available slots so if anyone else wants to participate, he can send me a PM.

sana po isama uli yung oppo 981... marami po kasi di makapaniwala dun sa result nung first shoot-out

[Clondalkin]

Sarap sanang mag-attend sa shoot-out kung matapat sa vacation ko.       I would have brought 3TB of ammos for everyone's buffet.   

Given the impressive quality and quantity of high def downloadable contents, not to mention the speed at which they are becoming available, it's going to be a big hindrance for mainstream's adoption of BD.  The DVD did not have this kind of "quality competition" when it began.

Just curious, Hollywood can't chase legally after makers of NMTs?

[MAtZTER]

Just curious, Hollywood can't chase legally after makers of NMTs?

I think they have to chase after the root cause first... free downloads. Which they couldnt.

[Clondalkin]

I think they have to chase after the root cause first... free downloads. Which they couldnt.

Yeah that's right but what I meant is that the main purpose of these NMTs is for playback of downloadable contents in formats that are mostly illegal.  It can be argued that without that feature, these NMTs are no more than 2nd rate internet access devices.

[streetsmart]

Sarap sanang mag-attend sa shoot-out kung matapat sa vacation ko.       I would have brought 3TB of ammos for everyone's buffet.   

Just tell us kelan vacation mo. We will organize special bienvenida. 

[MAtZTER]

Yeah that's right but what I meant is that the main purpose of these NMTs is for playback of downloadable contents in formats that are mostly illegal.  It can be argued that without that feature, these NMTs are no more than 2nd rate internet access devices.

True sir.  But its the same argument with ipods and mp3 players. The free downloaded content (in the form of songs) may be illegal but the device isnt.

[streetsmart]

sana po isama uli yung oppo 981... marami po kasi di makapaniwala dun sa result nung first shoot-out

We have logistic constraints. Marami na kasi ang 4 players. Baka matagal masyado kung 5 players na. Also, I don't have access to an Oppo 981.

One of the problems sa first shoot-out was that the 981 wasn't properly calibrated. That's why I'm getting the 980 today so I have time to tweak it para optimal ang pq nya, using its own internal controls only. This way, we know that all players were tweaked to their best quality, using their internal controls only (except the Pio 696, which will use the DVDO video processing).

[eksi]

We have logistic constraints. Marami na kasi ang 4 players. Baka matagal masyado kung 5 players na. Also, I don't have access to an Oppo 981.

One of the problems sa first shoot-out was that the 981 wasn't properly calibrated. That's why I'm getting the 980 today so I have time to tweak it para optimal ang pq nya, using its own internal controls only. This way, we know that all players were tweaked to their best quality, using their internal controls only (except the Pio 696, which will use the DVDO video processing).

noted ser

[Clondalkin]

True sir.  But its the same argument with ipods and mp3 players. The free downloaded content (in the form of songs) may be illegal but the device isnt.

Buti nalang no.  

Mr. Streetsmart, thanks in advance!  

[MAtZTER]

Buti nalang no.  

Hehe, yes! 

As I heard before: "FREE is a good price" 

[ricky]

Hehe, yes! 

As I heard before: "FREE is a good price" 

Believe me wala ng free ngayon may balik din yan later on

[Moks007]

I think nga the audio will be the most challenging. I think maybe the truehd will just sound louder haha ..Let's see. Sir streetsmart, will you just use batman begins, how about the superbit hollowman and bd hollowman? hehe.. I think on the superbit copy it will be hard for people to tell kung sd or bd haha..

[streetsmart]

I think nga the audio will be the most challenging. I think maybe the truehd will just sound louder haha ..Let's see. Sir streetsmart, will you just use batman begins, how about the superbit hollowman and bd hollowman? hehe.. I think on the superbit copy it will be hard for people to tell kung sd or bd haha..

With regard to audio, I have done some testing and Dolby TruHD is about the same level as Dolby Digital, at least on the material we intend to use. I believe it's possible to detect the difference but you need pretty good ears. 

With regard to video, the problem is that we need material which is available on BD, SD and Popcorn. E wala ako Hollowman sa Popcorn ko. Anyhow, pq of Batman Begins is pretty good and we will have 3 different scenes.

[juanch]

I’ve completed a lot of the preparation for Shoot-out II this Saturday at 2 pm, including a 4-hour video calibration session with the AV Driver technician last night. PQ has improved a lot. The tentative plan is as follows:

VIDEO SHOOT-OUT
Players:
1. Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray player, outputting 1080p native
2. Popcorn DCH-100, upscaled from 720p to 1080p internally
3. Oppo 980, upscaled from 480i to 1080p internally
4. Pioneer DV-696 (very similar to the 600), outputting 480i and then with complete video processing by DVDO Iscan VP50Pro

Material will be “Batman Begins,” basically because we have copies for all types of players, including Popcorn. Besides, pq is very good. We intend to have 3 challenging scenes: dark, bright and action.

All sources will be individually calibrated for brightness and contrast but only the Pio 696 will go through a full video processing by the VP50Pro.

Projector will be a Sony VPL-VW100, 1080p, using a 120” Da-Lite High Power screen. I can assure everyone that the pq will be awesome for ALL sources, but … of course better for some.

The tests will be blind. No one except me and @iiinaslao will know which player is being used. Tentatively, the plan will be for each participant to give a grade to each player for each scene viewed. The tentative criteria are:
1. Detail
2. Jaggies (or lack of it … basically the stair-steps or waves you can see on diagonal lines)
3. Color saturation and accuracy
4. Sharpness, without edge enhancement (this will be explained)

We will determine the rankings of the players per scene, per criterion and overall rankings.

AUDIO SHOOT-OUT
This will be a blind test, comparing Dolby TruHD vs. Dolby Digital. The Panny BD30 will be used and the tentative material will be the following:
1. Blade Runner (sound effects and conversation)
2. Chicago (sound effects, conversation, music)
3. Legends of Jazz (music)

The participants will only be asked to guess which film clip used Dolby TruHD. I can assure everyone that this will be a very challenging test. There is a difference but it’s subtle, depending on the source material.

Any suggestions are most welcome. There are still some available slots so if anyone else wants to participate, he can send me a PM.

It seems this shootout is very well planned sir Mark.

I can already imagine participating judges having a difficult time differing Dolby TrueHD 
I reckon this will be an even more daunting task than the last shootout.

Here's to Saturday 

[milken]

Wow this is great.  Looking forward to your findings. 

[barrister]

Congrats sir streetsmart! Tuloy na tuloy na pala!

I'm eagerly anticipating the results.  Mind-blowing!  There's nothing like it on the net.

Radical, dude! 

[jerix]

I hope the result of the audio test between dd and dd-truehd will similarly be presented here. The result of a similar test on these new audio formats recently conducted by home entertainment i think is now subject of a very lengthy debate is AVS forum. The result of a similar test conducted here may or will open up minds.

[streetsmart]

I hope the result of the audio test between dd and dd-truehd will similarly be presented here. The result of a similar test on these new audio formats recently conducted by home entertainment i think is now subject of a very lengthy debate is AVS forum. The result of a similar test conducted here may or will open up minds.

I have my own views na about this but I'd prefer to see the result of a blind test. I think this will be very interesting.

[barrister]

Believing Blu-ray will succeed doesn't make sense
Posted by Don Reisinger
September 26, 2008 11:56 AM PDT

... According to Nielsen, Blu-ray's market share dropped to just 8 percent of the overall market, giving DVDs a whopping 92 percent ownership.

... Eight percent of the market is nothing. Sure, it's a young product, and DVD started out slowly too, but do all the people who espouse the belief that Blu-ray will succeed somehow forget that the jump between VHS and DVD was substantial?

Find yourself a VCR, and pop a tape into it. After that, throw a DVD into your player, and watch it on your HDTV. When you're done with that, do me a favor, and pop a Blu-ray movie into your PS3. Notice anything shocking when comparing VHS to DVD and anything, well, disappointing when comparing that DVD movie to Blu-ray?

That's what I thought. ...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10052157-17.html

[juanch]

Just came from streetsmarts HT and as much as I am tempted to post our findings in the EB.
I will leave the honor to sir Mark to post the results.

I have a feeling that our findings will bring shock waves throughout the pdvd community  

[milken]

Aba aba aba. suspense. 

[Moks007]

Just came from streetsmarts HT and as much as I am tempted to post our findings in the EB.
I will leave the honor to sir Mark to post the results.

I have a feeling that our findings will bring shock waves throughout the pdvd community  

yup yup, its stronger than the earthquake "shockwaves" that hit metro manila kanina morning  ...
Sir Mark pls Pm me my score hehe..thanks

[nerveblocker]

I must say that Streetsmart has one jawdropping HT set-up specially in its PQ and AQ performance.  That was one successful EB and I am looking forward to the next one.  BTW, sir Mark please pm me my DD/Dolby TrueHD result.  Just wanted to know how I fared.  Thanks so much for offering your place for the shootout.  Kudos to sir Mark!

[alvinh]

I must say that Streetsmart has one jawdropping HT set-up specially in its PQ and AQ performance.  That was one successful EB and I am looking forward to the next one.  BTW, sir Mark please pm me my DD/Dolby TrueHD result.  Just wanted to know how I fared.  Thanks so much for offering your place for the shootout.  Kudos to sir Mark!

Truly a great EB. IMO, the objectives set for this gathering (as specified on this thread) were accomplished, if not more. To meet fellow members who share the same passion is wonderful. I think this sets the paranoia level to defcon 2. The PQ and AQ were inspirational...I was like a kid at Toy Kingdom. Now its time to jot the first names next to the handles. This would have been a harder test. Whew.

I positioned myself almost behind the rear channels and I can only say that it did not matter a whole lot. As I peeked in and out of the sweet spots, I can only say "ahhhh, nice".
I look forward to the official results of the tests. Yup. The video shootout will most likely qualify for a hot topic.

Our sincere thanks to our host for sharing your HT passion! More power to you Sir Mark!

[nerveblocker]

O sa sunod na shootout eto naman ang agenda: Hulaan kung DVD, Dibidi o Torrent file ang pinapalabas sa 14 inch TV

Let your eyes decide...