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Home Theater => Audio => Speakers => Topic started by: resident_evil on Jan 14, 2017 at 09:45 PM

Title: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 14, 2017 at 09:45 PM
A bit of distortion in high volume. Did not notice this until I played music a bit louder than usual then examined speakers when I heard a bit of distortion. It looks like cone is hitting the metal ring while it vibrates causing distortion. Using NAD D3020 to drive. Can this be repaired? Where? Any idea how much? Did not get this from authorized distro. Came from abroad. Thanks.

Left Speaker

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/8BF1CE11-A8BE-4FE8-87A2-2513C8A214F5_zpsnefwksaq.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/8BF1CE11-A8BE-4FE8-87A2-2513C8A214F5_zpsnefwksaq.jpg.html)

Right (http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/4553347E-7333-40F7-8D1B-035BB672AF82_zpsmfziwld6.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4553347E-7333-40F7-8D1B-035BB672AF82_zpsmfziwld6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM
Naka angat ung dome sa gitna nung right speaker, dapat parehas sila nung left speaker Try mo kay Benedict aka Speaker Doctor baka magawan ng paraan.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 14, 2017 at 10:50 PM
Yes bro. Salamat. May contact details ka nya?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 14, 2017 at 10:54 PM
Yes bro. Salamat. May contact details ka nya?

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,33445.0.html
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 14, 2017 at 11:23 PM
ty bro marlon
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: synchro_01 on Jan 15, 2017 at 06:16 AM
(http://www.hitekav.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/LS50-UniQ.jpg)

Hope this helps Atty
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 15, 2017 at 07:31 AM
Not to all KEF concentric drivers but I've experienced this twice before years ago, one in my car, distorted sound & found that the cone wasnt holding anymore w/ the tweeter part, 2nd also a Center Channel same problem. But the LS50 is an expensive speaker I'm sure KeF distributor here in the Phil will honor warranty issues.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 15, 2017 at 10:48 AM
how many years na ito sir? sana maayos pa..
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:01 AM
Sa abroad nabili bro. Tapos nabili ko sa original owner.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:03 AM
Nasobrahan ata ako sa tuwa kaya napa lakas masyado. Hehe. Office set up ko kasi tapos inuwi ko. Sa office di pwede masyado maingay. Kaya nung nasa bahay na- ayun.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:39 AM
Gumagana pa naman actually. Wag lang masyado lakasan because when the cone is pushed too hard it vibrates and hits the metal thing causing distortion because of the vibrating cone hitting metal.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 15, 2017 at 01:06 PM
Nasobrahan ata ako sa tuwa kaya napa lakas masyado. Hehe. Office set up ko kasi tapos inuwi ko. Sa office di pwede masyado maingay. Kaya nung nasa bahay na- ayun.

awts!

Gumagana pa naman actually. Wag lang masyado lakasan because when the cone is pushed too hard it vibrates and hits the metal thing causing distortion because of the vibrating cone hitting metal.

ah! ayos pa naman pala wag lang lakasan.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: JojoD818 on Jan 15, 2017 at 03:46 PM
If the cone surround is intact, it could be the spider was detached from the top plate. Worst case scenario is there is already a lump in the voice coil that hitting the pole piece or the magnet during extreme cone excursion.

I would strongly suspect it's just a suspension thing (surround foam/rubber or spider) if it is hitting the metal.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: JojoD818 on Jan 15, 2017 at 03:48 PM
Sorry too quick on the post button.

I suggest to have it looked at already for your amps safety.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Stagea on Jan 15, 2017 at 03:58 PM
If the cone surround is intact, it could be the spider was detached from the top plate. Worst case scenario is there is already a lump in the voice coil that hitting the pole piece or the magnet during extreme cone excursion.

I would strongly suspect it's just a suspension thing (surround foam/rubber or spider) if it is hitting the metal.
Agree. Most likely nag-separate yun adhesive sa spider kaya lumuwa yung cone.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 05:14 PM
Thanks for the inputs guys. Already messaged benedict. Just waiting for response.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Jan 15, 2017 at 07:04 PM
Thanks for the inputs guys. Already messaged benedict. Just waiting for response.

It's best you call him.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: qguy on Jan 15, 2017 at 07:27 PM
Nad 3020, 20 watts per channel. Might be too little for the KEF LS50 ?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 15, 2017 at 07:34 PM
baka lumuwag yung screw holding the tweeter assembly
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/kef2/3.jpg)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 09:22 PM
NAD D3020 bro. Madami naman gumagamit with LS50. Conservative din NAD sa wattage.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 09:23 PM
Gusto ko na nga buksan at operahan e. Wala lang ako mahanap how to.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:30 PM
Gusto ko na nga buksan at operahan e. Wala lang ako mahanap how to.

ay kung yakang yaka mo naman sige lang.. :)
sa akin kasi pag ganyan bukas na agad yan chief! gusto ko kasi nakikita muna problem tsaka ko bigay sa expert.. :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Hahaha. May tama ka dyan bro.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:39 PM
Hahaha. May tama ka dyan bro.
haha..oo chief mas gusto ko makita problem bago bigay sa gagawa binubusisi ko talaga. ;D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Jan 15, 2017 at 11:40 PM
Kailangan nang palitan ng powered LS50 para wala nang problem sa amplification. Hehe!

Sent from my ASUS_Z012D using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 16, 2017 at 01:15 AM
Yan ang panalo. LS50 wireless.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 16, 2017 at 08:42 AM
Gusto ko na nga buksan at operahan e. Wala lang ako mahanap how to.
Doable yan. Carefully swipe old credit card around the aesthetic cover plate edges to remove it. Then accessible na screws sa harap.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 16, 2017 at 12:28 PM
Yung sa taas ng rubber surround na may nakalagay na LS50 bro? Or yung sa likod ng speaker cabinet?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 16, 2017 at 01:25 PM
Doable yan. Carefully swipe old credit card around the aesthetic cover plate edges to remove it. Then accessible na screws sa harap.

Mark parang complicated to na DIY ah, hehe  :D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Jan 16, 2017 at 04:50 PM
Doable yan. Carefully swipe old credit card around the aesthetic cover plate edges to remove it. Then accessible na screws sa harap.
Mark parang complicated to na DIY ah, hehe  :D

Eto mas-simple:

Carefully swipe old credit card at L.I.S. to acquire new LS50. Check the aesthetic cover plate edges to see if properly placed. Take it home & enjoy!!! Hehe!
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 16, 2017 at 05:53 PM
Eto mas-simple:

Carefully swipe old credit card at L.I.S. to acquire new LS50. Check the aesthetic cover plate edges to see if properly placed. Take it home & enjoy!!! Hehe!

Ha ha ha... i swear natawa ako sa banat mo Master ha ha ha..
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 16, 2017 at 07:43 PM
Eto na. What next? Hehe.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/17E3695A-8D54-41CB-93DC-936F62AA35D0_zpsmjnvskcy.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/17E3695A-8D54-41CB-93DC-936F62AA35D0_zpsmjnvskcy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 16, 2017 at 07:44 PM
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/34F5662F-D502-4DA6-97E0-207CE28E08E2_zpsrdphe6oi.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/34F5662F-D502-4DA6-97E0-207CE28E08E2_zpsrdphe6oi.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 16, 2017 at 11:42 PM
Eto na. What next? Hehe.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/17E3695A-8D54-41CB-93DC-936F62AA35D0_zpsmjnvskcy.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/17E3695A-8D54-41CB-93DC-936F62AA35D0_zpsmjnvskcy.jpg.html)

gulp! :o :o :o
ako kinakabahan sa speaker mo chief.. good luck po. :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 12:59 AM
ibalik ko na lang? hehe
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: raider125jeigh on Jan 17, 2017 at 02:06 AM
Atty nag DIY kana hehe.. hopefully maremedyuhan ganda tunog nyan ls50
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Stagea on Jan 17, 2017 at 03:30 AM
ibalik ko na lang? hehe

Move the cone and see if the spider follows.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:57 AM
ibalik ko na lang? hehe

Good Choice! Let the experts do it, sayang the Driver alone looks very Good & Sturdy built. maybe its a lemon during the production line. Atty try nalang sa Warranty service here sa KEF distro, maybe they'll honor it
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:02 AM
Eto na. What next? Hehe.
Move the cone and see if the spider follows.
Also check if the tweeter assembly moves. Remove the plate behind the magnet, AFAIK doon accessible ang tweeter mounting.

There's a lock at the spade connector. In this pic the tab is near or at dead center, triangular part:
(http://www.connector-terminal.com/Clkj_Images/upfile/2012814194816728610.jpg)
Disconnect by pulling the wire WHILE pressing the tab.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:08 AM
ibalik ko na lang? hehe
Good Choice! Let the experts do it, sayang the Driver alone looks very Good & Sturdy built. maybe its a lemon during the production line. Atty try nalang sa Warranty service here sa KEF distro, maybe they'll honor it
The faint yet devilish "hehe" is a sign na gusto ituloy ni atty ang DIY adventure nya. Go atty go! ;D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:23 AM
Also check if the tweeter assembly moves. Remove the plate behind the magnet, AFAIK doon accessible ang tweeter mounting.

There's a lock at the spade connector. In this pic the tab is near or at dead center, triangular part:
(http://www.connector-terminal.com/Clkj_Images/upfile/2012814194816728610.jpg)
Disconnect by pulling the wire WHILE pressing the tab.

Nose Bleed, well if Atty has the gutz then go for Master Mark's credit card theory  ;D ;D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 11:33 AM
Let's do this. For science. But I cant get this guy out. Where is the lock? By the way, spider moves when cone is moved.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/B4E6B2C4-87A5-489A-A940-7DDF4BBD4427_zps8dhx1j0w.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B4E6B2C4-87A5-489A-A940-7DDF4BBD4427_zps8dhx1j0w.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 01:11 PM
There.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/022E5BEA-629A-4D62-91C1-F90D721D54AD_zpsgixsphgq.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/022E5BEA-629A-4D62-91C1-F90D721D54AD_zpsgixsphgq.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/ED915D45-49AF-49FB-9846-5A523B4B8633_zpslydmeksw.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ED915D45-49AF-49FB-9846-5A523B4B8633_zpslydmeksw.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 01:13 PM
Comment and suggest lang guys ha. Walang sisihan basta may sense yung suggestions. This is for science. Pag nasira lalo, e di sira.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 01:18 PM
Spider moves when cone is moved. Faint grating sound can be heard. No visible lumps or damage on voice coil. Tama ba? The voice is coil is the one na parang karton na cylindrical sa gitna ng toilet paper?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 17, 2017 at 01:33 PM
Cringe!  :-X
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 17, 2017 at 01:34 PM
This is not for the faint hearted  ;D

Let's do this. For science. But I cant get this guy out. Where is the lock? By the way, spider moves when cone is moved.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/B4E6B2C4-87A5-489A-A940-7DDF4BBD4427_zps8dhx1j0w.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B4E6B2C4-87A5-489A-A940-7DDF4BBD4427_zps8dhx1j0w.jpg.html)

There.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/022E5BEA-629A-4D62-91C1-F90D721D54AD_zpsgixsphgq.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/022E5BEA-629A-4D62-91C1-F90D721D54AD_zpsgixsphgq.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/ED915D45-49AF-49FB-9846-5A523B4B8633_zpslydmeksw.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ED915D45-49AF-49FB-9846-5A523B4B8633_zpslydmeksw.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: synchro_01 on Jan 17, 2017 at 03:59 PM
the tweeter assembly should be fastened at the middle of the main woofer magnet assembly by way of a screw or adhesive.  Can you take a good picture of that hole in the middle of the magnet assembly?

In hindsight that woofer magnet looks like its as big as the main driver itself. No wonder that thing can play real big without losing coherence in spite of its diminutive size.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 04:14 PM
Ok bro. Will take closer photo tonight. That black cap thing on the right covers the hole which I removed by turning. I did not see a screw in the hole but will check again later.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 05:31 PM
I'm not sure if this will help atty, pero mukang parehoa sila ng Tweeter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdNbpeZUQis
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 05:36 PM
Ty bro. will check it out.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: synchro_01 on Jan 17, 2017 at 05:49 PM
I think courage got it right. That black thing that you unscrewed is the one that fastens the tweeter assembly in place. 
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:10 PM
Tweeter assembly not moving even after removal of that cap thing. 

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/55136828-BB8E-451F-9BC3-45695001E057_zpspk82vyhm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/55136828-BB8E-451F-9BC3-45695001E057_zpspk82vyhm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:14 PM
Tweeter assembly not moving even after removal of that cap thing. 

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/55136828-BB8E-451F-9BC3-45695001E057_zpspk82vyhm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/55136828-BB8E-451F-9BC3-45695001E057_zpspk82vyhm.jpg.html)

Kaya ba sir i move yung nasa loob? I think it's connected directly sa tweeter? Sa video the guy can push out the tweeter
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:16 PM
Foam removed. Nakita ko din video. Ang dali lang na alis ng tweeter assembly after the cap was removed.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/9F285A7D-C9AD-4DFC-825D-D7DBB9B53B44_zpsls6dgmit.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9F285A7D-C9AD-4DFC-825D-D7DBB9B53B44_zpsls6dgmit.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:20 PM
Foam removed. Nakita ko din video. Ang dali lang na alis ng tweeter assembly after the cap was removed.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/9F285A7D-C9AD-4DFC-825D-D7DBB9B53B44_zpsls6dgmit.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9F285A7D-C9AD-4DFC-825D-D7DBB9B53B44_zpsls6dgmit.jpg.html)
As per specs, its a Uni Q driver array. I saw some videos of Kef Uni-Q array just being pushed para humiwalay sa main woofer. Wala bang movement kapag nag push yung loob kung saan naka screw yung takip?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:31 PM
Ayan. konting lakas ng loob lang. but i cant pull it out. There is resistance. I think its the black wire.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/73011ACE-9C09-408C-9346-76CD5E543AA2_zpspasnjgta.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/73011ACE-9C09-408C-9346-76CD5E543AA2_zpspasnjgta.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: synchro_01 on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:44 PM
Atty di kaya instead of removing it you should push it back in so that the wave guide is flush and it doesn't hit the cone? Baka dun sa screw lumuwag.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 06:51 PM
Atty di kaya instead of removing it you should push it back in so that the wave guide is flush and it doesn't hit the cone? Baka dun sa screw lumuwag.

+1.. base dun sa video, pinigilan nung guy by holding dun sa edges nang tweeter para sumikip and hindi sumama yung tweeter sa ikot nung takip sa ilalim while making it tighter
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:14 PM
Beentryig that bros pero ayaw mag flush e. Will keep trying.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:20 PM
Beentryig that bros pero ayaw mag flush e. Will keep trying.

Totally na labas mo ba yung tweeter?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:23 PM
naka soldered ung wires nung tweeter kaya di lalabas yan....
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:44 PM
Di nga lalabas bro. May wire. Yung sa video di pa ata naka solder yung black wire sa terminal kaya lumabas. Gusto ko na nga putulin wire e. Hehe.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:49 PM
There.

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/022E5BEA-629A-4D62-91C1-F90D721D54AD_zpsgixsphgq.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/022E5BEA-629A-4D62-91C1-F90D721D54AD_zpsgixsphgq.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/ED915D45-49AF-49FB-9846-5A523B4B8633_zpslydmeksw.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ED915D45-49AF-49FB-9846-5A523B4B8633_zpslydmeksw.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 07:57 PM


Kanina atty, naiangat mo yung tweeter right? Nahatak ba yung wire ng konti nung ginawa mo yun?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 08:02 PM
Yes bro. Nahahatak.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 08:03 PM
Dun sa video that you posted may wire. Yun ata yun. Pero di paka kabit sa terminal.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 08:23 PM
Di kaya the problem is with the cone part and not the tweeter assembly. I doubt lumuwag screw ng tweeter assembly to displace it e. Masikip pa sa virgin nung una kong tinanggal. Baka the cone is not returning to its flush position.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 08:29 PM
Or worse, voice coil overheat.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 17, 2017 at 08:47 PM
Di kaya the problem is with the cone part and not the tweeter assembly. I doubt lumuwag screw ng tweeter assembly to displace it e. Masikip pa sa virgin nung una kong tinanggal. Baka the cone is not returning to its flush position.

Mukang ganun nga atty. Mukang ok naman ang Tweeter

Look at how the cone of LS50 plays on this video..  Forward the video to 2:12 and you'll see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEB2CD1Xti8
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 09:54 PM
Good read:

http://sound.whsites.net/articles/speaker-failure.html
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 17, 2017 at 10:44 PM
Spider moves when cone is moved. Faint grating sound can be heard. No visible lumps or damage on voice coil. Tama ba? The voice is coil is the one na parang karton na cylindrical sa gitna ng toilet paper?
Di kaya the problem is with the cone part and not the tweeter assembly. I doubt lumuwag screw ng tweeter assembly to displace it e. Masikip pa sa virgin nung una kong tinanggal. Baka the cone is not returning to its flush position.
Woofer nga ang problem nyan, not the tweeter assembly. Malamang part of the winding kumalas at sumasabit na sa front plate kaya hindi na makabalik sa rest position. I just remembered a dead subwoofer whose cone looked sucked to almost full inward excursion, noong kalasin nakabusalsal na ang winding, trapped between front plate and pole piece.

Iparewind na yan.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 17, 2017 at 11:11 PM
Muka nga bro marck. Kaya mo gawin?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Jan 18, 2017 at 12:05 AM
Yun tweeter is suppose to be not moving when playing because para siyang bullet cone so malabo nga sa tweeter.

Sent from my ASUS_Z012D using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 12:24 PM
Opinion sa Audiokarma nag bottom out. Change driver na daw. Ouch.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Courage on Jan 18, 2017 at 12:32 PM
Opinion sa Audiokarma nag bottom out. Change driver na daw. Ouch.

Ouch....
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: synchro_01 on Jan 18, 2017 at 03:09 PM
Looking at the bright side...the LS50 is available in singles directly through KEF internet retailer. No need to buy a pair plus if you do go this route you have a spare tweeter assembly, crossover, speaker box, terminals from your defective unit.

I wonder why the woofer gave up the ghost....it certainly wasnt over driven to the extremes with the amp. Manufacturing defect perhaps?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: juanderer on Jan 18, 2017 at 04:12 PM
Opinion sa Audiokarma nag bottom out. Change driver na daw. Ouch.

ano ibig sabihin ng bottom out sir?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 06:28 PM
I think the cylinder holding the voice coil smacked the bottom plate because of too much exertion. Kaya na deform siguro. Over driven malamang. Perhaps the experts can chime in.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:01 PM
Looking at the bright side...the LS50 is available in singles directly through KEF internet retailer. No need to buy a pair plus if you do go this route you have a spare tweeter assembly, crossover, speaker box, terminals from your defective unit.

I wonder why the woofer gave up the ghost....it certainly wasnt over driven to the extremes with the amp. Manufacturing defect perhaps?

https://www.kefdirect.com/ls50-single-center-speaker.html

Or you can email KEF directly and ask for a replacement driver which may cost around $300.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:03 PM
pwede rin adhesive failure lang.
Quote
Malamang part of the winding kumalas at sumasabit na sa front plate
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Tempter on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:08 PM
https://www.kefdirect.com/ls50-single-center-speaker.html

Or you can email KEF directly and ask for a replacement driver which may cost around $300.

Kakalula!!! ;D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:15 PM
Yun din. Pwede nag melt adhesive. Gusto mo tingnan mark?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:15 PM
Ok sana mag order kaso shipping cost pa malupit.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:25 PM
ito mas mura:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649325788-kef-ls50-single-speaker-for-center-channel/images/1424137/

that's about US$ 460.

Use Canada Post/USPS to nearest JacPlus office in the US.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: CoolTOYZPH on Jan 18, 2017 at 07:40 PM
Being part of the design team of the speaker, Anthony Lueterio may be able to help.
He has been inactive at PinoyDvD but no harm in trying to call him for the repair.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 08:03 PM
You have his contact details cool?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 08:04 PM
Meron ako lbc shippingcart which I use for amazon etc pero mahal pa rin.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: ndotcom on Jan 18, 2017 at 08:41 PM
If I may sir, nacompare mo na ba sa working or good na driver yung may sira. Dapat bago binaklas ay compare na muna sa good para alam kung ano dapat ibalik or ayusing sira, baka kasi sa physical na look palang eh makita na ang dapat iadjust or gawin. Yun ay kung ok lang sayo na buksan din yung good speaker. Suggestion lang po, please proceed at your own risk.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 18, 2017 at 08:56 PM
Opinion sa Audiokarma nag bottom out. Change driver na daw. Ouch.
What?! saklap naman nyan chief.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 18, 2017 at 09:10 PM
Yung good speaker bro flush yung cone sa tweeter assembly and no audible distortion. Kahit siguro open ko the good speaker di ko rin makikita the voice coil kasi nasa ilalim sya unless I totally disassemble.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: audiojunkie on Jan 19, 2017 at 12:25 AM
Try email KEF with pics of the unit, they may be kind enough to send driver replacement ... if they care their products owners... sakali lang....
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: markcrenz on Jan 19, 2017 at 06:54 AM
Try email KEF with pics of the unit, they may be kind enough to send driver replacement ... if they care their products owners... sakali lang....
They make claim failure is from abuse or that they don't honor warranty outside the country of sale, but worth a try.

If I may sir, nacompare mo na ba sa working or good na driver yung may sira. Dapat bago binaklas ay compare na muna sa good para alam kung ano dapat ibalik or ayusing sira, baka kasi sa physical na look palang eh makita na ang dapat iadjust or gawin. Yun ay kung ok lang sayo na buksan din yung good speaker. Suggestion lang po, please proceed at your own risk.
Sa akin NOT OK to open the good one.

Yun din. Pwede nag melt adhesive. Gusto mo tingnan mark?
Can give it a shot. Kung adhesive failure lang kaya ko restore yan. If it will need rewinding ako na magparewind.

Opinion sa Audiokarma nag bottom out. Change driver na daw. Ouch.
Tamad mag-repair mga kano. O sobrang mahal repair labor kaya sulit sa kanila replace na lang.
Pero kung mali analysis natin order ka na nga ng replacement. :D :D :D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: ndotcom on Jan 19, 2017 at 07:27 AM
Sana macompare lang itong pic na to sa working driver

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/34F5662F-D502-4DA6-97E0-207CE28E08E2_zpsrdphe6oi.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/34F5662F-D502-4DA6-97E0-207CE28E08E2_zpsrdphe6oi.jpg.html)

ito lang observe ko I don't know if its actual but worth checking based dyan sa picrure.

1. Yung spider ba naka angat, usually alam ko flat or lubog konti yan.
2. kita na ba yung coil ng mid/woofer

Anyway that's just me and how I will do this if its mine.

Goodluck and sana ma post din yung solution, kaabang abang kasi  :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 27, 2017 at 12:20 PM
There. No choice. Notice that the color of the cone becomes lighter after some time. New one is darker.


(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/36B3AC36-77A8-461F-BCA7-EBCA1EF48C42_zpsthchzrxt.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/36B3AC36-77A8-461F-BCA7-EBCA1EF48C42_zpsthchzrxt.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/4817DC88-80E1-4725-B4ED-2B68F61CD814_zps9kfvtezz.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4817DC88-80E1-4725-B4ED-2B68F61CD814_zps9kfvtezz.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/ACEE96AB-B260-4BF4-848C-2E069531335D_zpskozmfhfm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ACEE96AB-B260-4BF4-848C-2E069531335D_zpskozmfhfm.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/2E47EDB0-63BF-4E0F-982A-84986E87DBAA_zpslgu2qnsq.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2E47EDB0-63BF-4E0F-982A-84986E87DBAA_zpslgu2qnsq.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/91EC212F-E96B-4CFC-897B-AF76969AB711_zpstnyc6he8.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/91EC212F-E96B-4CFC-897B-AF76969AB711_zpstnyc6he8.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/864CC94F-EC22-48B0-AC07-7FB5E6CFBC4F_zpskilairr0.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/864CC94F-EC22-48B0-AC07-7FB5E6CFBC4F_zpskilairr0.jpg.html)









Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 27, 2017 at 02:38 PM
There. No choice. Notice that the color of the cone becomes lighter after some time. New one is darker.


(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/36B3AC36-77A8-461F-BCA7-EBCA1EF48C42_zpsthchzrxt.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/36B3AC36-77A8-461F-BCA7-EBCA1EF48C42_zpsthchzrxt.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/4817DC88-80E1-4725-B4ED-2B68F61CD814_zps9kfvtezz.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4817DC88-80E1-4725-B4ED-2B68F61CD814_zps9kfvtezz.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/ACEE96AB-B260-4BF4-848C-2E069531335D_zpskozmfhfm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ACEE96AB-B260-4BF4-848C-2E069531335D_zpskozmfhfm.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/2E47EDB0-63BF-4E0F-982A-84986E87DBAA_zpslgu2qnsq.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2E47EDB0-63BF-4E0F-982A-84986E87DBAA_zpslgu2qnsq.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/91EC212F-E96B-4CFC-897B-AF76969AB711_zpstnyc6he8.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/91EC212F-E96B-4CFC-897B-AF76969AB711_zpstnyc6he8.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/Karl_Castillo/Mobile%20Uploads/864CC94F-EC22-48B0-AC07-7FB5E6CFBC4F_zpskilairr0.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Castillo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/864CC94F-EC22-48B0-AC07-7FB5E6CFBC4F_zpskilairr0.jpg.html)











Solved! Ung CJ o ung Rogue mo ang mas bagay dyan sa LS50. Bitin yan sa 3020.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 27, 2017 at 02:47 PM
Sold both na bro. Now using MF M6si. Winner.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Jan 27, 2017 at 02:53 PM
Sold both na bro. Now using MF M6si. Winner.

Wow! Congrats!
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Arulco on Jan 27, 2017 at 05:20 PM
Nice! At least alam ko na na makakakuha pala ng replacement drivers yung LS 50 ko just in case.

@TS

Pa PM kung saan kayo nag source. Thank you.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 27, 2017 at 06:51 PM
Quit na sana ako e. Kaso nasira yung ls50. Hehe.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 28, 2017 at 11:40 AM
By the way, alam nyo ba sino dealer ng Audiolab sa Pinas? Interested in the M Dac.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 28, 2017 at 12:40 PM
buo na ulit?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 28, 2017 at 01:06 PM
How much for the replacement driver atty?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 28, 2017 at 02:32 PM
Yes bros. Ako na din nag install ng new driver.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 28, 2017 at 03:18 PM
Yes bros. Ako na din nag install ng new driver.
wow congrats! galing nyo ah. :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 28, 2017 at 03:54 PM
Yung Q Acoustics Concept 20 pakinggan nyo. Malupit din. 1/3 lang price compared to the LS50 pero di papa iwan.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: juanderer on Jan 30, 2017 at 09:30 AM
Yung Q Acoustics Concept 20 pakinggan nyo. Malupit din. 1/3 lang price compared to the LS50 pero di papa iwan.

sir nakikinig ka ng rock music using LS50 ? anong amp gamit mo na di bitin
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 30, 2017 at 11:25 AM
yes bro. more on rock and classical ako although I listen to all sorts of music. gamit ko now is the Musical Fidelity M6si. busog na busog the ls50. sa NAD D3020 kaya naman wag lang masyado malakas because the amp will clip, which is what happened to me. i suggest you use the most powerful amp that you can afford since it will be senseless to listen to rock music at low levels.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: juanderer on Jan 30, 2017 at 12:01 PM
yes bro. more on rock and classical ako although I listen to all sorts of music. gamit ko now is the Musical Fidelity M6si. busog na busog the ls50. sa NAD D3020 kaya naman wag lang masyado malakas because the amp will clip, which is what happened to me. i suggest you use the most powerful amp that you can afford since it will be senseless to listen to rock music at low levels.

kailangan nga ng malakas na amp. nong vintage amp na 100 watts gamit ko ok naman sya. pero pag mas mababang wattage manipis na

nasubukan mong mag tube sa rock music? anong amp ang kinaya ?  mukhang mahal yang m6si, magkano yang ganyan?
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: Arulco on Jan 30, 2017 at 12:38 PM
yes bro. more on rock and classical ako although I listen to all sorts of music. gamit ko now is the Musical Fidelity M6si. busog na busog the ls50. sa NAD D3020 kaya naman wag lang masyado malakas because the amp will clip, which is what happened to me. i suggest you use the most powerful amp that you can afford since it will be senseless to listen to rock music at low levels.

Mukhang hindi gumana yung "soft clipping" speaker protection circuit nung D3020.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 30, 2017 at 12:56 PM
oo nga ano. hmmmm
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 30, 2017 at 01:00 PM
Will see if I can find older photos of my LS50. Napaisip ako bigla. baka nga naman it was not the NAD that caused it. Shet.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 30, 2017 at 01:00 PM
At di ko lang napansin kasi di ko naman sya nilalakasan sa office.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 30, 2017 at 01:11 PM
Ok guys. Grabe. My mistake and apologies to the NAD D3020. Nahanap ko the photo before I got the NAD. Mukang nung nakuha ko sya hindi na flush the other cone sa waveguide. Hay. My fault. Lesson learned guys, huwag masyado excited. Examine the item very carefully and ask all sorts of questions. I'm sure the seller was in good faith and also did not know of the defect. This is a community after all and we are not here to swindle each other. Apologies to the seller too for not calling it to his attention immediately. Too late now. Bought the item more than a year ago.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Jan 30, 2017 at 07:50 PM
Ok guys. Grabe. My mistake and apologies to the NAD D3020. Nahanap ko the photo before I got the NAD. Mukang nung nakuha ko sya hindi na flush the other cone sa waveguide. Hay. My fault. Lesson learned guys, huwag masyado excited. Examine the item very carefully and ask all sorts of questions. I'm sure the seller was in good faith and also did not know of the defect. This is a community after all and we are not here to swindle each other. Apologies to the seller too for not calling it to his attention immediately. Too late now. Bought the item more than a year ago.

OK lang Atty, cant reverse the clock but the good thing is there's a replacement driver na, Bad side is doble lang yung gastos.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 30, 2017 at 09:47 PM
Ok guys. Grabe. My mistake and apologies to the NAD D3020. Nahanap ko the photo before I got the NAD. Mukang nung nakuha ko sya hindi na flush the other cone sa waveguide. Hay. My fault. Lesson learned guys, huwag masyado excited. Examine the item very carefully and ask all sorts of questions. I'm sure the seller was in good faith and also did not know of the defect. This is a community after all and we are not here to swindle each other. Apologies to the seller too for not calling it to his attention immediately. Too late now. Bought the item more than a year ago.
so yung may mali ay speaker or amp?  ???
sorry naguluhan ako eh.  :-[
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: istan on Jan 30, 2017 at 10:48 PM
Speaker.
When Atty bought it, damaged na yun speaker.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Jan 30, 2017 at 10:56 PM
Speaker.
When Atty bought it, damaged na yun speaker.
ayun! naguluhan lang siguro ako sa statement ni Atty..ha ha! Thanks bro. ;D
nadoble nga gastos nya dun..sayang!  :-\
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Jan 31, 2017 at 02:38 PM
Charge to experience.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: juanderer on Feb 01, 2017 at 08:21 AM
salamat sir sa pag accommodate ng audition kahapon. parang walang nangyari don sa speaker, ganda pa rin !
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: meat_eater on Feb 01, 2017 at 04:05 PM
Sir Resident_Evil saan po nabili ung stands? ganda  :)

Thinking of getting LS50s din but I dont know how it sounds paired to a tube amp (for easy listening, accoustics, jazz, bosa, etc). I heard it once connected to a MF SS amp and I was very impressed :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Feb 01, 2017 at 04:28 PM
Kasama yung stands nung nabili ko bro.  Bring your amp dito sa bahay. Subukan natin.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: meat_eater on Feb 01, 2017 at 09:16 PM
Ganda ng stands sir. Glad to know na naayus na speakers mo.

:) thank you sa offer, pwede siguro sir. Hassle lang kasi 50ish lbs sia.

Cheers :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Feb 02, 2017 at 11:56 AM
Pagawa ko muna vintage tube amp ko. Sabihan kita.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: meat_eater on Feb 02, 2017 at 12:53 PM
Pagawa ko muna vintage tube amp ko. Sabihan kita.

I saw a lot of reviews raving about that combo - usually with a 35-50 watt push pull amp..... Probably a little less control when the impedance drops to 3.9 ohms (most likely with awkward phase angles), but the midrange and sweetness would probably be a good trade off hehehe

Anyway, sige boss.... Thanks uli!

Hope to hear from you soon regarding the Tube + LS50 combo.

Cheers :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Feb 02, 2017 at 01:02 PM
Pagawa ko muna vintage tube amp ko. Sabihan kita.
pwede ba ako sumabit chief?  :D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: mbtorn on Feb 02, 2017 at 02:25 PM
pwede ba ako sumabit chief?  :D

EB na yan! Sama ako. :D
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Feb 02, 2017 at 02:59 PM
sana pwede. :)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Feb 02, 2017 at 09:54 PM
oo ba. kayo pa.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: shoktongxxx on Feb 02, 2017 at 10:02 PM
oo ba. kayo pa.
wow! thanks chief. ;)
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: newbie pa rin on Feb 02, 2017 at 11:19 PM
Saan yan, baka malapit lang isasama ko na sarili ko kahit walang imbitasyon.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: resident_evil on Feb 03, 2017 at 12:59 AM
Medyo malayo sa kabihasnan pero madaming beer. Susana heights muntinlupa.
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Feb 03, 2017 at 06:29 AM
wow BEER + LS50 = TopNotch!
Title: Re: What happened to my LS50?
Post by: juanderer on Feb 06, 2017 at 10:01 AM
wow BEER + LS50 = TopNotch!

uy ayos to !