PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Tubes => Topic started by: efren_ on Dec 29, 2009 at 10:06 AM
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Just got these antique tube recievers from junk, the rca-victor is a SE with 6AR5 output and 12AV6 driver, 100VAC, double A.M tuner. when i test it Umusok :o despite the fact that I have 100V xformer(find out later it was caused by leaky PSU filter caps,) it fried the 6CA4 rectifier tube :'( so I temporarily replaced it with SS diodes, the filter caps originaly is 20mfd, replaced it w/ 150mfd., further test showed that all capacitors(electrolytic specially), were way out of tolerance, i fired it up once again anyway, I was surprised as it was dead silent while idling, tested some Stan getz/Joao Gilberto cd's, if the JLH class A gave me goose bumps, these piece of junk raised all the hairs in my bodies :o,its been 25 years since i last heard a tube amp sing; despite the fact it is only 5W/ch, very transparent from mid to high driving my Altech Lansing sattelites, its more than enough in a 20X20m room.another thing, I tapped the output from 12AV6 driver via 270k resistor to isolate the high impedance of the tube amp and feed it to the low Z of JLH amp, wow even the SS amp sounded like tube amp! the only diffrence is the SS amp has got the punch,(JLH is 12W/Ch). Right now i stripped the whole RCA-Victor down to the last wire and tube socket, rebuild it as amp only minus the bulky AM double tuner. how about the GE reciever? Have to set it aside for a while,..so it is posible for SS amp to sound "tubey" by feeding it with a signal from a tube driver. Sir JOJO D. might have a more detailed explanation.
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Wow congrats Efren! And Merry Christmas na din! ;D
Sayang naman yun rectifier tube, at least next time try to check the caps first before firing it up. Aging caps needs to be slowly "awakened" to prevent any magic smoke... ;D ;D ;D
By using your JLH amp with the tubes up front, you now have a very nice hybrid setup. ;)
Where did you connected the 270K again?
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the 270 k res sir jojo is connected in the control grid of 6AR5. luckily the GE reciever has 5Y3 rect that i can use, only i have to do a little metal work to fit the larger tube. the GE have also 6F6gt, since im planning to replace the innards with a transistorized AM kit and just preserve the external cabinet and knobs for antiquity's sake, those 6F6 should be exellent for a SE amp, driven by C3G in triode mode( I learned from you, hat's off to you sir!) ;D
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BTW sir JOJO, are they still selling output transformer at raon, particularly LION brand? or perhaps some better OT that can be matched with 6F6GT,?
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I believe wala na ngayon yun "universal" opt na LION brand pero you can try looking dun sa shop sa tapat ng Akihabara, madami ako nasilip na LION transformers doon and Andrew name nun owner. Nasa tabi siya ng dental supplies store. ;)
Pero da best is PM mo si ka edrel sison! Sigurado ka pa sa quality ng opts niya sir efren. ;)
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many thanx sir jojo for the info, i will be sharing pix of the project when finnished. Happy New Year to you and to all tube enthusiast!!! ;D
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thanks for mentioning jojo..
efren if i were you i will try to restore the amp back to its original state where possible.
most modern amps, even tubed for that matter cannot even come close to the sound quality of vintage amps..
if the OPTs are original we can restore it to its original specs. i have had my share of restoring OPTs of dynaco MKIII, ST70s, pioneer and sansui too.
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@edrel, no problem. good news yan restoration ng vintage tranny...
@efren, if edrel accepts tranny restoration then that would be the most viable move or pagawa ka sa kanya ng bago outputs... ;)
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efren, is that single ended? whatever you do, do not lose those output irons.....
and play it safe, tube amps have higher voltages than ss amps... ;)
EDREL,
eto na yung output trffos gamit yung z11 cores mo...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20trAFFOs/24122009051.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20trAFFOs/24122009053.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20trAFFOs/24122009056.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20trAFFOs/24122009057.jpg)
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Sirs,
i already stripped the RCA chassis, restoring it to its original state is imposible i think. original wooden cabinet desintegrated upon lifting due to age and termites, further research on the net it was model B-501 circa 1954. even the power transformer fish paper was not spared by termites, it must be the wax coating that they find so delectable ;D. the output transformer were spared, primary resistance on my FLUKE 177 DMM reads 497ohms & 503 ohms on the other, secondaries have both around 9.4ohms. when its up and running, i'll PM sir edrel when i begin the 6F6 SE project for the output xformers. the GE radio is more worth restoring, the cabinet & knobs is still intact. the "magic eye" however was broken when it dangle and got pinched by the cabinet :(. i will upload pix via photobucket while they were still untouched by my tweaky itchy hands ;D
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nice one tony! i should have brought you 2 sets of imported endbells..
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nice one tony! i should have brought you 2 sets of imported endbells..
OP sorry for the OT:
Edrel - do you have tranny covers as well?
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nice one tony! i should have brought you 2 sets of imported endbells..
edrel, do you have endbells that mount upright? the ones from golden mars are not so good...
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efren, those magic eye tubes may still be available, if you have the part number we can look for it...
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Sir Tony,
yes sir, single ended, and im handling it like an egg.the size is like a 750mA transformer. Chassis is hot(one of AC line is connected directly), it gave me a shocker countless times, i learned my lesson when i accidentaly touched B+350v line while my other hand is on the concrete floor, it nearly knock the daylights out of me, and i can actually hear myself scream :othat when i decided to use isolation transformer,,whew!!!
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Sir Tony,
yes sir, single ended, and im handling it like an egg.the size is like a 750mA transformer. Chassis is hot(one of AC line is connected directly), it gave me a shocker countless times, i learned my lesson when i accidentaly touched B+350v line while my other hand is on the concrete floor, it nearly knock the daylights out of me, and i can actually hear myself scream :othat when i decided to use isolation transformer,,whew!!!
that's scary, one reason i shifted to ss long time ago is this fear of shocks....
i suggest that you get an isolation transformer like the one shown below...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/diy%20isotraffo/Cimg0609.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/diy%20isotraffo/Cimg0608.jpg)
the traffo is made from EI 1 3/4 x 3 inch stack, 320 turns of ga16 for both primary and secondary coils....
also a rubber mat will protect you from shocks....
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sir Tony,
a rubber mat...i never thought of that. Thanx sir Tony, i will implement this in my workplace. now for the pix...<a href="http://s646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/?action=view¤t=Image010.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image010.jpg" border="0" alt="GE"></a>
<a href="http://s646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/?action=view¤t=Image017.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image017.jpg" border="0" alt="GE reciever"></a>
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Nice one Tony, kung may halimaw na sub yan na malamang ang halimaw na isolation tranny! ;D ;D ;D
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OP sorry for the OT:
Edrel - do you have tranny covers as well?
hi mr. macdon how are you?
tranny cover is i think also the same as endbell. yes i have those..
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EDREL,
eto na yung output trffos gamit yung z11 cores mo...
hi tony by the way why have you replaced the original irons? i saw them and i think they were good..
and you have a nice camera shots right there. what cam is that?
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hi tony by the way why have you replaced the original irons? i saw them and i think they were good..
and you have a nice camera shots right there. what cam is that?
hi edrel, actually i have another set of coils made, i plan to test/compare your irons with that of rey luis's....i used an nokia n73 camera...
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tony that one is better, i believe they were from US surplus and are grain oriented. i have compared an original dynaco cores with my Z11 using the same bobbin OPT winding and the original sounded better to me.
the advantage of using new ones is that you dont have much air gaps as compared to using surplus. for power transformers though, new cores are best.
if only i can get some grain oriented steel in new condition...and at 200 kgs or so..
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edrel,
i got this spreadsheet from bud purvine, and z11 should be the same as m6, i wanted to confirm but unfortunately my Heatkit IG-18 is still in the province....
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Sirs,
i did not mention in my previous post that there is a turn table included in the RCA-Victor tube amp, i dont know if this mechanical piece of contraption worth restoring but in case somebody is interested, its up for grabs FOC, just let me know.... ;)
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efren what tt is that? kung garrard yan please reserve! seriously let us know what table you found out there.. :) :) ;D
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Sir Edrel,
unfortunately sir the turnT is Victor etched on top where you place the vynil. Also there's an inscription "his masters voice" a dog facing a pre-war turnT; I only recall seeing that in the movie Saving Private Ryan; there's a volume control, and below it two single pot ganged mechanically by a dial cord, a squirrel cage type of motor(100Volts) with a mechanical speed control 16, 33, 45....the switch below the arm is broken though i think repairable. the pick-up is magnetic, the needle is nowhere to be found :-\ on four corners are the mounting studs for springs; two springs are missing.
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thanks efren. if you are able to take pics and post it here surely will generate some interests. why not repair it and use for the meantime .ill send you some LPs for testing if you want..
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hi edrel, actually i have another set of coils made, i plan to test/compare your irons with that of rey luis's....i used an nokia n73 camera...
Is Rey Luis' the winder from Tondo?
I think I talked to him one time.
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Is Rey Luis' the winder from Tondo?
I think I talked to him one time.
he is from malabon or caloocan, you can reach him thru 352-5420, afaik, he makes traffos for rene rivo...
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(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image019.jpg) from this
to this(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image011-1.jpg)
the nostalgic glow(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image001.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image017-1.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image003.jpg)
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sorry po sa low quality pics, taken by my nokia 6288 only.
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good job! 8)
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made the ff. mods:
1. replace the "auto type" transfo with isolated type.
2. all heaters were DC supplied instead of AC
3. 6CA4 rectifier replaced with 5Y3
how does it sound?
1. full details even at low volume, no hum at idle, smooth texture, the instruments sounded the way they should.
have to cover those mylar caps, the IF cover should look good on them, :)
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sir JOJO,
not yet finished sir, doing some finishing touches on the exterior. hopefully few days more :)....
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sir JOJO,
not yet finished sir, doing some finishing touches on the exterior. hopefully few days more :)....
Ayos lang yan - slowly but surely ;)
Iba talaga ang fulfillment kung sariling gawa vs bought - congrats on the achievement. :)
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sir macdon,
many thanks sir, pinoyDVD is the major factor that got me into tubes, plus everytime that i recalled those yesteryears of the good 'ol tube era( di pa naman ako matanda, FYI ;D ;D ;D) it brings nostalgic memories specially when i played cd's like VERA LyNNE, ELLA FITZGERALD, the enchanting voice of NAT KING COLE, the blending of instruments of JAVIER COUGAT, the cool and jazzy STAN GETZ, the melancholic PETER PAUL & MARY, the list goes on & on...... :)
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these bottles awaits my future projects.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image022.jpg)
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wow dami tubes! 8) 8) 8)
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wow dami tubes! 8) 8) 8)
sooner or later i'll be needing those output trannies from sir edrel, for the 6F6 SEP brewing in my mind.... ;D
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(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image000.jpg)
recently i removed the crossover network from my Onkyo D-032AX BS to find out the effect on the tube amp
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image004.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image005.jpg)
I only retained the 4.7caps to isolate the tweeter, the result... much better to my ears, more natural sounding than before.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image012-1.jpg)
the modified vintage amp with pre-out to feed the JLH ss classic class A amp
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image001-1.jpg)
now both amp not only amplifies music/audio signals but to me it also amplifies the singer's emotion...
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greetings,
these "heaterless tube" has the characterestic of being warm and mellow, even non-tube enthusiast will totally agree ;D ;D ;D
cheers ;)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image002-1.jpg)
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Sir Edrel,
as per specs sheet sir, these bottles are no good than a headphone amp.? They were huge and I thought i can squish 4-5 watts on SE. Sayang naman :-[ :-[ :-[
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image036.jpg)
while these gold pin drivers (C3g, made by SIEMENS/TELEFUNKEN) eagerly waits a good output Tube :) :) :)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image037.jpg)
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efren i saw some amps over the net that can take both 6V6 and 6F6 though i have not tried both tubes..
0.85 watt for a max plate voltage of 250 and bias 33mA (as the specs suggests) is more than enough to rock your room, provided you got a sensitive transducer out there..
in the world of SE amps, one has to also play with sensitive speakers...
you see, addiction in tubes brings chains to sometimes unforseen necessity and need.. ;D ;D
in short, "nanganganak ng gastos" ;D ;D ;D
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efren i saw some amps over the net that can take both 6V6 and 6F6 though i have not tried both tubes..
0.85 watt for a max plate voltage of 250 and bias 33mA (as the specs suggests) is more than enough to rock your room, provided you got a sensitive transducer out there..
in the world of SE amps, one has to also play with sensitive speakers...
you see, addiction in tubes brings chains to sometimes unforseen necessity and need.. ;D ;D
in short, "nanganganak ng gastos" ;D ;D ;D
sir Edrel,
amen to that sir! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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efren got your busted OPT, wimpy for its size..i am not surprised that it didnt lasted..
try a set of my OPT and see if it suits you. ;D ;D
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efren got your busted OPT, wimpy for its size..i am not surprised that it didnt lasted..
try a set of my OPT and see if it suits you. ;D ;
sir edrel,
this are the original spkrs of RCA-Victor, 6AR5 output SE, etched at the back is "DORTMUND MAGNETFABRIK"
judging from the looks of it, mukhang sensitive siya.
Is it worth having it restored?
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image039.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image040.jpg)
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Sir's,
anybody here in Pdvd who can restore this speakers? not neccesarily original, ok pa po voice coil, kailangan palitan ang cone, spider, edge.
Mod's sorry po medyo off topic.
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Efren, I believe we have someone here at the speaker section that helps restore/repair speaker drivers...
HTH
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(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image039.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image040.jpg)
efren, honestly if you will have to ask me i will not waste my time and precious peso restoring those. you cannot bring them back to its original state.
if i were you i will look for an original driver. i know an alnico 12 inch full range transducers which sells for 4K pair and they are originals..
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@ sir jojo d,
many thanks for your reply sir :)
@sir edrel,
yes sir, even me have doubts about those drivers...back to the storage room ;D.
i saw at deeco marcos hi way 12" STARVOX rated at 10w/ 8 ohms, the magnet is also small, the size of those from from antique transistor radios, i inquired about it and the saleslady replied " wala na nga po magka interes bumili nyan luma na kasi, 10 years n ako dito inabot ko na yan, kaya binebenta nalang 450 isa." I was short of cash so i said i will return the next day to purchase it, never bother to tell her not to sell it to anybody, since it 's been sitting there for 10 maybe 20 years, guess what next morning when i returned, bakat nalang ng pinagpatungan inabot ko!!! :'( :'( :'( binili daw ng matanda! well the old man sure know his stuff.
btw yung mga pinagawa kong opt, once installed sa rebuilt RCA 6ar5, malamang wala na tanggalan, that means another pair sir edrel, nanganganak nga ;D ;D ;D!!!
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Just graduated from the Military Academy, cadets waiting for some real action ;D ;D ;D:
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/OPT-4.jpg)
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/OPT-3.jpg)
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/OPT-2.jpg)
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/OPT-1.jpg)
they are on their way Efren and will land mountainous Rizal by noon tomorrow.. :D :D
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TIKASSSSSSSSS................PAHINGA!!
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/opt-6.jpg)
PASULONNGGGG....KAD!
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/opt-5.jpg)
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efren i saw some amps over the net that can take both 6V6 and 6F6 though i have not tried both tubes..
0.85 watt for a max plate voltage of 250 and bias 33mA (as the specs suggests) is more than enough to rock your room, provided you got a sensitive transducer out there..
in the world of SE amps, one has to also play with sensitive speakers...
you see, addiction in tubes brings chains to sometimes unforseen necessity and need.. ;D ;D
in short, "nanganganak ng gastos" ;D ;D ;D
You can squeeze more than 1 watt on an SE 6V6, I have already tried it.
It even sounds lovely with G2's voltage fully regulated on pentode mode, hint: use a tube regulator. ;)
The Zen OPT will work.
Edrel, lovely OPT's, for whom?
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TIKASSSSSSSSS................PAHINGA!!
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/opt-6.jpg)
PASULONNGGGG....KAD!
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/alphatechsison/opt-5.jpg)
ba!! talagang me tigas,tigas pahinga ka pa ngaun ha! ibang klase ka na talaga ngaun bro...congrats to team TAMODRAH!!! ;D ;D ;D
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@sir Alexg,
many many thanks for the precious info sir :D :D
@sir edrel,
:o :o :oHuwaw Gandah!!! :o :o :o
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sir edrel,
my bottle of Chivas is almost empty, another one won't hurt....after I installed those beauties of course...
i don't want the B+ soldered to the plate, the UL tap to the B+ & the Plate tap to G2 of course ;D ;D ;D
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alex this is for efren's busted OPT. i told him just make new rather than rewinding the wimpy original.
this would be also the revision 1 to the zen opt which you currently have right now.
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ba!! talagang me tigas,tigas pahinga ka pa ngaun ha! ibang klase ka na talaga ngaun bro...congrats to team TAMODRAH!!! ;D ;D ;D
yari ka sa akin jake adriano!
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efren i really hope malasing ka para mas gumanda lalo ang tunog..let me know first thing how the new OPT fares.. :) :)
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sir edrel,
Yes sir, i"ll let you know, and the first one ;) ;) ;)
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greetings,
these "heaterless tube" has the characterestic of being warm and mellow, even non-tube enthusiast will totally agree ;D ;D ;D
cheers ;)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image002-1.jpg)
Nice one!
My diy tubed audio equipment sounds better with a couple of shots of Glenfiddich. Cheers!
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sir alexg,
Agree w/ that sir, anyway i drink not get drunk but to just calm my nerves down ;) a relaxing music is the catalyst to wrap things up.
cheers ;D
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efren i see that your amp will expose the terminals of the new OPTs. be careful and install some shrinkables over the top. however if you dont mind occasional jolts just leave them as they are.. ;D ;D
it will be nice if you can find a suitable OPT cover.. :)
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(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image044.jpg)
sir the marines have landed sir!!! 8)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image045.jpg)
with "TLC"(tender loving care) :D
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image049.jpg)
LOCK & LOADED!!! get ready for action ladies ;D ;D ;D
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image050.jpg)
keep alert at all times!!! you dont wanna be cut down at this terrain(jungle)!!
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image051.jpg)
keep firing, were just warming up!!!
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image055.jpg)
excellent job boys!! ;D ;D ;D
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image053.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image054.jpg)
you deserve a medal of valor!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Excellent Efren, care to post some listening impressions? How are they compared to your old OPTs?
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OT. Edrel, i think you should start a website and catalog your transformers with price list..... ;D
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thank you tony. for now i am just enjoying making few pieces and have friends test them to their extents. i am looking forward to reach the next level.. :D :D
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sir Edrel,
here are my listening impressions regarding your new OPT design for 6F6G/6AR5 single ended, ultra linear mode. Driver used are a pair of Onkyo D-032ax BS, a lowly J-WIN cd player, typical uninsulated room measuring 20m X 20m, under the ff. conditions:
1.these are subjective listening, my listening prefferences might be different from others.
2.I dont have sophisticated equiptment to measure different parameters, all that i have is a ten years old FLUKE 177 dmm & two trusted averaged sized ears.
At power on, not a hint of hum, (i know tube amps have some degree of hum, but this ones dead silent) maybe because of modern electrolytic used in the PS, or the single point grounding I implemented, or the characterestic of 6AR5, even foreign builders observed.
Here are the test CD's:
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image062.jpg)
Track 1 Yesterday- the "twang"as they hit the base string is more vivid, you can picture how the fingers slide through each fret.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image066.jpg)
california dreaming track-Jose Feliciano's rendition is full of emotion, vocals and the way he pronounced is very clear
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image068.jpg)
one of my favorite cd's.. David Benoit- the attack and decay as the piano keys hit the string is well defined.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image069.jpg)
Astrud Gilberto- The Diana Krall of her day, the track "A Certain Sadness" leaves you no option but to close your eyes.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image061.jpg)
Nutcracker - DEUTCHE GRAMOPHON- employ the best recording technique- full orchestral at its finest, you'll never missed hearing each individual instrument
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sir Edrel,
The new OPT's not only looks good, they performed well beyond my expectation 8) 8). I also tried triode mode but seems the soundstage were reduced, other areas are almost the same. I borrowed some heavy rock cd's and the result is less favorable.
IMO, these are exellent when listening to classical, jazz, & vocals. My JLH excells in rock. anyway I rarely listen to rock, I prefer classical, jaZZ, Bosa novas & vocals.
And still i'm thinking about those two spare OPT's for the 6F6G....later....later... ::) ::) ::)
Best Regards :)
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efren you may install a switch to flip between triode and UL mode. if you are used to the UL mode you might be probably needing to get used to the triode mode as power will be reduced. anyway whatever path you choose i am sure you will be happy. i am glad you are enjoying your rebuilt tube amp.
another pair is waiting for you... ;D ;D
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efren, edrel is right, you can install a switch and you can select triode or pentode even when power is on, even while music is playing....i have done it and it is safe to do... ;D
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...and efren you have not splurged into an analog set-up yet. what more can your ears hear if you will be doing separates with an analog source..
you need to order more marines and battle carriers.. ;D ;D
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sir TonyT/sir edrel,
i'll heed your advice sirs, a DPDT switch will be installed in a couple of days, or perhaps a relay controlled by a SPST switch is much better.
I'll lobby congress for additional budget for my armaments and logistics, a long battle waits ahead ;D ;D ;D
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yan.. konting lambing ke misis..
"honey nagkape ka na ba? gusto mo timpla kita?" ;D ;D ;D
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sir,
di kape ang gusto nun.....pero kasing init ng kape ;D ;D ;D,with matching STAN GETZ & OSCAR PETERSON TRIO on background playing "Bothered, Bewitched, Bewildered" at naka dim ang ilaw. ;) ;)
I like this amp more with your OPT's in it. Of course it is far behind from SAKUMA san's amp, but the thing is I rebuilt it, i like it and i'm happy the way it sounds. :D
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o efren sino ba yang sakuma san na yan, mapuntahan.. :D :D
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just type "sakuma amp" will bring you directly, o kaya ito sir http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/ (http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/) matindi ang mga gawa, uses transformer as couplings.
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no problem with interstage, if you want to go to the next level just give me a ring.. ;D ;D
..and you will be known as "efren sakuma"! ;D ;D
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sir edrel,
one thing for sure, the cost of sakuma's design will wipe out my bank account, what scares me most is my wife's wrath ;D ;D ;D
dito muna tayo sa mga simpleng SE, UL/TRiode mode :D
BTW sir edrel, (OT) I have lots of unused germanium PNP power xsistors in TO-66 cans, and i am thinking of putting them to use on PP mode, do you design irons for SS also? later i'll post pics of them.
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funny because i was actually asking tony previously about making kits for leach amp. i have lots of imported AEROVOX filter capacitors...and tony has some motorola power transistors which he promised to lend me..(hi tony ;D).
and yes of course i can make irons for that. i was just lucky that i have access to all UL listed parts for the transformers. what 230 to 32-0-32, 15A? ;D ;D
igawa na kita...
or you want to play around with my unfinished SS DIY amp? i just dont have the time..i can bring it to you for babysitting..
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efren, what is the part number of those germanium trannies?
edrel, no problemo.....do you want to-3's or plastic ones? ;D
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sir Tony,
AD162 sir in TO-66 package, PNP /20V /1A /Audio power/ according to specs.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image071.jpg)
I think this are very rare germanium sir Tony,..I got 12 pcs of them.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image075-1.jpg)
interested for a swap sir? ;D I'll include this..
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image073.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image074.jpg)
you might have better use for them, they are just gathering up dust in my junk box. perfect for your SS projects.
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pwede sa booster yan, yung gamit sa jeep...sayang wala rin akong paggagamitan nyan...
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sir Tony,
ah ok sir, also let me include in the list in case somebody might be interested:
ASZ16-TO3 germanium
ASZ18-TO3 germanium
OC28-TO3 germanium
MJ2955T-original motorola TO218 silicon
2N4111-TO3 gold plated package and pin
AY8114-TO3 gold pins
Plus countless other rare & original small signal xsistors made by RCA, Motorola, Philips, Matsusita....
I also have this tube with markings REZ50103 made by Ericsson Sweden, i have no idea regarding the use of this tube, there is only three elements inside: a shiny centerplate and two filaments on both side, similar
to an incandescent bulb filament.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image079.jpg)
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image080.jpg)
any info sir? TIA :)
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I noticed two stars na pala ako dito sa Pdvd, salamat po!!! :D :D :D
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Sir Tony,
I remember back in the 80's, Booster was in the boom, you can see it almost anywhere with blaring two or three way drivers, using the cheap versions of MJ2955 TO3 silicon that flood the market. I also made several of those using original 2SB449 germanium, the sonic diffrence is way up ahead. The germanium is characterized by a relaxed, open and less coloration sound.
I don't want to expound further as I noticed I am already off track ;D
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yup, thats rght, germanium types seem to sound more natural to my ears too.... ;D
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sir Tony,
The idea of those Push-Pull boosters came into my mind after a kumpare of mine heard my tube amp, and wanted similar sound in his car, after I explained to him the imposibilities of having a tube amp in a car, he asked for another option, so came the idea of this germanium cans. Deeco still sells input and output irons, in various ratings, but the OPT are "autotype". Perhaps sir Edrel can rewound this irons and put a secondary winding. ;) I'll ask my kumpare if he is willing to import for a custom built irons imported from cavite. ;D ;D
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what kind of transformers are those efren. for audio applications as much as possible stay away from low grade cores. your germaniums will be useless...
and how much power you can juice out of that germaniums? 10,000W PMPO ba? ;D ;D
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sir Edrel,
during those days (even up to now) there is IPT/OPT available for 50W the size of 750mA power xformer as advertised,
100W the size of 5A power xformer for their opt, 200W the size of 10A xformer, all made by MIYAMA. also one thing, there is no secondary for OPT, the speakers are directly tapped at the primary windings,.
commercially labeled at 50W output/ch but I think 20W is the maximum, btw "PMPO" for me is "Post Marketing Pampapogi Only ;D ;D ;D
the germaniums that I have now can deliver 8W of clean audio/ch, 6devices/ch in push pull mode. anyway this discussion is for educational purposes for now, I have my mind set for those two remaining OPT's for my
6F6G, :D :D :D "cause i'm planning to bi-amp.
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well probably tony can help us out on how we can do "booster" irons so we can put your germaniums into good use..
6F6G you will need a very good PTX & choke too.. ;D ;D
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sir Tony,
AD162 sir in TO-66 package, PNP /20V /1A /Audio power/ according to specs.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image071.jpg)
hi efren,
ganyan yun ginamit na driver transistors ng GAS amp...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/JD%20Labs/Ampzilla03.jpg)
sir Edrel,
during those days (even up to now) there is IPT/OPT available for 50W the size of 750mA power xformer as advertised,
100W the size of 5A power xformer for their opt, 200W the size of 10A xformer, all made by MIYAMA. also one thing, there is no secondary for OPT, the speakers are directly tapped at the primary windings,.
commercially labeled at 50W output/ch but I think 20W is the maximum, btw "PMPO" for me is "Post Marketing Pampapogi Only ;D ;D ;D
the germaniums that I have now can deliver 8W of clean audio/ch, 6devices/ch in push pull mode. anyway this discussion is for educational purposes for now, I have my mind set for those two remaining OPT's for my
6F6G, :D :D :D "cause i'm planning to bi-amp.
I remember tuloy those days I use Lion trannies... :)
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well probably tony can help us out on how we can do "booster" irons so we can put your germaniums into good use..
6F6G you will need a very good PTX & choke too.. ;D ;D
yes, i remember that the input traffo had 64 turns of #26 wire primary and 2 x 150turns of #30 wires bifilliar wound secondaries...on a 1/2 inch core...
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I remember tuloy those days I use Lion trannies...
yes, i made my forst push-pull amp using those lion traffos, and tv vertical output tube, 6EM5's....that traffo used diagonal slit E's for the cores.....
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Sir's,
talked about retro ::)....nagkakabukingan tuloy ng edad :D :D :D
have a nice day to all! ;)
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so what are we waiting for? fire away that booster! ;D ;D
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Sir's,
talked about retro ::)....nagkakabukingan tuloy ng edad :D :D :D
have a nice day to all! ;)
technology lang daw ang tumatanda sir... ;) (tayo hindi) ;D ;D ;D
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technology lang daw ang tumatanda sir... ;) (tayo hindi) ;D ;D ;D
Oo nga po, i totally agree sir! ;D ;D ;D
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This expirience might be a lesson to all tube newbies like me:
should I place it on number 1? Here it is:
1.DON'T EVER REMOVE THE SPEAKER LOAD WHILE THE AMP IS OPERATING.
Lots of nasty things can happen, like arching(just what happen to my amp) that can burn through your tube socket( ceramic socket is immune, mine is made of pcb material.), a busted OPT :o( the reason why i ordered a set of new OPT's from sir edrel), or worse, a fried tube :'(.
any additional info is very much welcome, this may prevent costly damage or even fatal :o in the future if we are aware of the consequences & responsibilities involved in such a wonderful and rewarding hobby... :D
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efren, tube amps are designed and meant to drive a load so dont you ever ever do that again ;D ;D
kung hindi marami ako gagawing OPT sayo! ;D ;D
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This expirience might be a lesson to all tube newbies like me:
should I place it on number 1? Here it is:
1.DON'T EVER REMOVE THE SPEAKER LOAD WHILE THE AMP IS OPERATING.
Lots of nasty things can happen, like arching(just what happen to my amp) that can burn through your tube socket( ceramic socket is immune, mine is made of pcb material.), a busted OPT :o( the reason why i ordered a set of new OPT's from sir edrel), or worse, a fried tube :'(.
any additional info is very much welcome, this may prevent costly damage or even fatal :o in the future if we are aware of the consequences & responsibilities involved in such a wonderful and rewarding hobby... :D
it happened to me also, and the reason for this is an open secondary opt offers an infinite load to the tube, now we all know that current accros an infinite load is infinite volts, soon the insulation on your opt breaks down and fries, releasing that magic smoke....... ;D
a high resistance load accross the secondary, like 470 ohm resistor, can help in most cases if there is a chance that the speaker may be disconnected in use....
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I have a friend in Mindanao (Cotabato) who burned his OPT testing his speaker without a load on the other channel.
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Many, many thanks sir Tony, very informative sir.
now for number 2.
ELECTROCUTION HAZARD!!! behind those sweet & warm sounding tubes are lethal voltages (300 volts dc- 800 volts depending on the design or output power.) Even if your amp is unplugged, chances are the filter caps still retain lethal voltages, damages can range from broken tubes because you jerk so hard you knock your amp off the table or worse what the doctors call "fibrillation" after they took a post mortem examination because your wife suspects a foul play :'(
If you really are itching for a tweak, unplugged, discharge those caps, and proceed. Better be safe than sorry ;)
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Many, many thanks sir Tony, very informative sir.
now for number 2.
ELECTROCUTION HAZARD!!! behind those sweet & warm sounding tubes are lethal voltages (300 volts dc- 800 volts depending on the design or output power.) Even if your amp is unplugged, chances are the filter caps still retain lethal voltages, damages can range from broken tubes because you jerk so hard you knock your amp off the table or worse what the doctors call "fibrillation" after they took a post mortem examination because your wife suspects a foul play :'(
If you really are itching for a tweak, unplugged, discharge those caps, and proceed. Better be safe than sorry ;)
Always be extra careful when working with those lethal voltages, I know of an old guy who also works with tubes but unfortunately he can't have kids anymore, of course he makes up stories that he just doesn't want to have kids.
He must have short circuit or fried a nerve but the good news is he's still alive and one of his heads is still working.
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800V...bordering on an electric chair's potential.. ;D ;D
has not been abolished yet? the death penalty?? ;D ;D
break muna tayo sa tubes..PACQUIAO VS. CLOTTEY muna!
wait, one guy asked me to do a 500-0-500V power transformer, sum it up and you have 1KV... :o :o..
pwede gawa na lang tayo booster?? ;D ;D ;D
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Sirs,
I was wondering if I connect a 4ohm driver to my 8ohms output (OPT) what will be the effect?
Sakuma san uses this kind of approach( His amps usually is 16 ohms and the drivers is 8ohms) there is not much detailed explanation except japanese diy'ers say this approach "might or will destroy speakers". One thing is clear, it is purely mismatch, but when critics auditoned his work, they were silent on the subject, and Sakuma would seem to express"......"you were saying?"....
please enlighten... :)
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sir edrel,
I will be implementing this topology in my next project, uses 6V6 (same pin lay out as 6F6 which I have) and 6SJ7 also readily available. As you can see the OPT is connected at cathode instead of plate, the specs of OPT states: "6000 ohms to vc (adjusted so that primary resistance is 250 ohms to dc)" 45mA plate current. Is the AT-0087 sufficient enough?
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/efrennoble/Image000.jpg)
btw, sir busy yata sa new projects?
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one guy asked me to do a 500-0-500V power transformer, sum it up and you have 1KV...
with todays' silicon rectifiers, these kind of voltages need not be.......with attendant insulation problems and care....
using a voltage doubler rectifier arrangement, you only need 250volts ac winding, you can have heavier wires and regulation will be good, efficiency up.... ;D
as for me, tube rects are better used on pre-amps and other low current apps.... ;D
during the tube's heydeys, using tube rects were more of a nesscesity, designers of those era had no other alternatives......but today is another day.....tubes rects today are more of a choice, nostalgia if you will.... ;D
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sir Tony,
good day sir, can you please comment on the topology that I have just posted, bago kasi sa paningin ko ang cathode driven OPT, or should I stick with the plate driven ???
Btw i think sir Edrel is busy with his new project, ayaw paabala ;D
Many thanks sir Tony :)
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while cathode drive gives less distortion, driving it will be harder...distortion is shifted to the driver stage instead.
total grid drive in peak volts = output volts + grid bias volts....
in your case, 6000ohm to speaker load, say 5 watts output, your cahode will have to deliver to the opt a peak voltage of 173volts, add to that is your grid which adds up to about 186 volts peak signal input to your 6v6 grid...
whereas if plate loaded, you just have grid bias volts to consider, your driver will do less work and will have less distortion....you only need to swing about 13 volts to the 6V6 grid.....
you can try it and see for yourself... ;D
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sir Tony,
Thank you sir, i'll stick to the plate loaded, it will be a waste of effort, time & money to build just to dismantle it again just because because i'm not happy the way it performs, and I hope this educate not only me who is a newbie in tubes but others like me who read this post, very educative, my hat's off to you sir Tony!!! 8) 8) 8)
One more sir,...after you post about rectifiers, I replaced the 5Y3GT in my amp with pea sized VO6C rectifiers rated at 1 amp each( i used 4, two per tap in full wave)and here are the positive results:
1. no voltage drop- with tube rect, at power on 286 volts, settled at 236 volts after warming up.
with silicon rect. steady at 336 volts +/- 2 volts variation which is negligible.
2.sonic qualities/ transparency- I was amazed as the sound became much more transparent, if I may
desribe, it is "clear as a crystal", as a bonus the bass was more tighter.
Even at low levels, it is well defined.
Now for the negative:
1. What was dead silent before, now there is hum, my ears about 1-2 inch from the cone; i listened last night at very low levels, at listening position, the good news is hum is inaudible.
2. I usually turn off the lights when listening at night, the sight of glowing tubes is kind of nostalgic, however since replacement of rectifiers, last night i noticed the slightly dull orange(not really glowing) in the plates of output tubes, a sign maybe they are driven to their limits? ??? or is it just normal considering they are operated purely Class A?
_________________________________________________________________________________________
The OPT's of sir edrel remain at normal operating temperature, even if operating for more than two hrs.
It is just perfect 8) 8) 8)
I wonder what can i do with those spare 5Y3GT & 5U4GB ::) ::) ::) A lot of "tuberos" still prefer tube rectification for a number of reasons, but for me my next project will be silicon rectified. Anyone out there want to swap these two for 6pcs OCTAL Sockets ? ;D
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sir Tony,
Thank you sir, i'll stick to the plate loaded, it will be a waste of effort, time & money to build just to dismantle it again just because because i'm not happy the way it performs, and I hope this educate not only me who is a newbie in tubes but others like me who read this post, very educative, my hat's off to you sir Tony!!! 8) 8) 8)
One more sir,...after you post about rectifiers, I replaced the 5Y3GT in my amp with pea sized VO6C rectifiers rated at 1 amp each( i used 4, two per tap in full wave)and here are the positive results:
1. no voltage drop- with tube rect, at power on 286 volts, settled at 236 volts after warming up.
with silicon rect. steady at 336 volts +/- 2 volts variation which is negligible.
2.sonic qualities/ transparency- I was amazed as the sound became much more transparent, if I may
desribe, it is "clear as a crystal", as a bonus the bass was more tighter.
Even at low levels, it is well defined.
Now for the negative:
1. What was dead silent before, now there is hum, my ears about 1-2 inch from the cone; i listened last night at very low levels, at listening position, the good news is hum is inaudible.
2. I usually turn off the lights when listening at night, the sight of glowing tubes is kind of nostalgic, however since replacement of rectifiers, last night i noticed the slightly dull orange(not really glowing) in the plates of output tubes, a sign maybe they are driven to their limits? ??? or is it just normal considering they are operated purely Class A?
_________________________________________________________________________________________
The OPT's of sir edrel remain at normal operating temperature, even if operating for more than two hrs.
It is just perfect 8) 8) 8)
I wonder what can i do with those spare 5Y3GT & 5U4GB ::) ::) ::) A lot of "tuberos" still prefer tube rectification for a number of reasons, but for me my next project will be silicon rectified. Anyone out there want to swap these two for 6pcs OCTAL Sockets ? ;D
the improvement you heard with the change to silicon rectifiers was brought about by the increase in operating point (plate volts)that the output tube experienced, not nesscesarily because of the silicon rectifiers themselves...
the 6F6 tube really likes 250volts, or thereabouts, so that what you can do is add series resistance to the rectifier legs, you can start with about 47~100ohms/5watts per side to see that the voltages goes below 300volts...
using silicon rects allows you to add more capacitance in the psu, that is worth looking into...
tubes like higher voltages, but one can not just increase it, we have to consider plate dissipation ratings if we want our tubes to last....we should respect the tube ratings, the specs on the tube manuals should be adhered to....
here is a link to patrick turners' website, you can learn many things from this guy....i too draw inspiration from him...http://www.turneraudio.com.au/education+diy.htm (http://www.turneraudio.com.au/education+diy.htm)
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Thank you sir Tony for sharing such an informative site, I just finnish reading a few topics, these are very helpful for tube newbies like me who take the path of tube amplification, he explained each topic clearly, and at times breaking the monotony with his own style of wit & humor.
Like you sir Tony, he is willing to share his knowledge in the field of tubes. :)
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i'm a fanatics of diy'ers sana maka bisita ko sa nyo sir...
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i'm a fanatics of diy'ers sana maka bisita ko sa nyo sir...
do keep visiting the threads here in TUBES sir Blue, lalo na threads ng mga masters (sir Tony, sir Edrel, sir Jojo,.... )when it comes to tubes, trannies and anything diy related to tubes these are the proper authorities ;)