PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Speakers => Topic started by: lynxrs11111 on Feb 03, 2012 at 08:23 AM
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Guys I know the topic has been discussed and argued already if theres a same topic please send me a link.
The query is how do you set your floor standing or tower speaker in the avr if you have a sub? Small or Large? Bass out to subwoofer or both or fronts? The thing I asked this is that:
1. If you use small setting the x-over will be cut to 80hz and the bass will bd directed to subwoofer which is the LFE which is a mono output then what will happen to the low frequency thats supposed to be reproduced by the woofers lower than the 80hz thats supposed to be produced in stereo mode or we really want it to be reproduced in mono mode since its a low frequency? I read in one article that bass is different from lfe.
2. Whats the point of buying tower speakers with 2 or more woofers if youll just send the low frequency to sub?
??? Sorry guys if theres some wrong info that I mentioned and feel free to correct me
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this is a matter of preference. the best setting would be the one which best suits your taste. just because you have a subwoofer, doesn't mean you'll automatically want to set your mains to small rather than large. it will depend on what you want to achieve.
for multi-channel surround-sound movies, THX standard guidelines recommend that the satellites (center, fronts, surrounds) should be crossed-over at 80Hz. this recommendation is based on their technical study which aims to give the best performance out of the playback system, mainly intended for movies. do note that this is just a suggestion, and the end-user is free to use whatever settings he deems fit.
for stereo music, there is no standard to speak of. there are audio purist who would insist on not using subwoofers and rely solely on 2-channel listening (i.e. L-R speakers only.) others would be more liberal, augmenting the L-R speakers with a subwoofer to either compensate for or boost the main speakers' bass extension (or lack thereof)
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1. frequencies below 80hz are omnidirectional, i.e., at the normal listening position you can't tell which speaker the low bass comes from.
2. main reason for setting all speakers small is better integration at the crossover frequency. added benefit is easier load for the receiver, freeing the amp section to playback the frequencies that demand less current. if your towers have a -3dB point of 40 hz or lower, you're free to set it large, or small at say 40 or 50hz cutoff.
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Yes, I agree w/ the posts above. 80 hz cut-off freq. as THX standard is NOT a general rule. You can adjust the x-over in your AVR lower to suit your taste. But have to remind you x-over setting depends on the freq. response of your speakers, have to consider that the surrounds are usually smaller than the fronts. if we say you SR have 60 hz or lower you can set @ 70hz or atleast 10hz above to have seamless integration of the spkr & sub. :)
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@TS, here's a nice and simple article from Audioholics that you might like to check out:
Setting the Subwoofer / LFE Crossover for Best Performance
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/setting-the-subwoofer-lfe-crossover-for-best-performance (http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/setting-the-subwoofer-lfe-crossover-for-best-performance)
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my towers can only go 60hz at 90db and my sub doesnt have frequency cut but the manual says that it can go 25hz to 100hz at 90db. should i set it large? the only thing thats bothering me is am I wasting the capabilities of the towers
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my towers can only go 60hz at 90db and my sub doesnt have frequency cut but the manual says that it can go 25hz to 100hz at 90db. should i set it large? the only thing thats bothering me is am I wasting the capabilities of the towers
set it to large, turn the sub's power off and give it a listen. if you hear no signs of distress from the towers then its fine.
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Generally the midbass (80 hz above or depending on where you set your crossover) would be more powerfull with bigger woofers or floorstanders.
The floorstanders would be able to play at louder levels compared to its smaller counterparts with less distortion
2. Whats the point of buying tower speakers with 2 or more woofers if youll just send the low frequency to sub?
??? Sorry guys if theres some wrong info that I mentioned and feel free to correct me
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set it to large, turn the sub's power off and give it a listen. if you hear no signs of distress from the towers then its fine.
tried setting the fronts to large then set the bass setting to both. in my opinion this setting makes more accurate bass than setting the fronts to small then bass setting to subwoofer only because on this setting all i hear for movies were rumble. is it because my sub is crappy? also im using identical fronts and surrounds
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Ibang option pa yun lows/bass from the speakers will be directed to the subwoofers. Sa Pioneer, yun yun subwoofer plus mode. Iba din kasi ang encoded signal na pumapasok sa sub. Hindi galing sa speakers. By setting the subwoofer avr setting to large, bukod sa LFE signal, pati yun lows from the speakers are directed sa sub kaya plus siya.
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tried setting the fronts to large then set the bass setting to both. in my opinion this setting makes more accurate bass than setting the fronts to small then bass setting to subwoofer only because on this setting all i hear for movies were rumble. is it because my sub is crappy? also im using identical fronts and surrounds
IMHO,Your Sub is not a problem. it's your fronts that have high freq. response for FS speakers (as you mentioned in your previous post).
Setting fronts to large is okay but it affects the clarity of mid-high freqs. if your fronts can go down @ 60hz, try this settings;
Fronts = small
AVR cut-off = 65-70hz
Sub cut-off = 100-120hz or Max.
Setting-up a takes a lot patience and experiments if you're doing it manually. Even those equipped w/ auto calibration function still needs some fine tuning to suit the user's taste or preference.
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tried setting the fronts to large then set the bass setting to both. in my opinion this setting makes more accurate bass than setting the fronts to small then bass setting to subwoofer only because on this setting all i hear for movies were rumble. is it because my sub is crappy? also im using identical fronts and surrounds
That doesn't sound right. Something's wrong with the sub.
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if you set the fs to large whats the xover cutoff? my avr is yamaha and doesnt have cutoff its just large or small setting for the speaker as well as my sub doesnt have any cutoff its fixed to 25hz to 100hz setting. what im thinking is the fs have a very conservative specs (60hz to 20khz) and that it can go lower than the 60hz specs, why I say so is because when i tried turning off the sub and directing the bass all to the fronts it sounds good even in music it sounds good without sub
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if you set the fs to large whats the xover cutoff? my avr is yamaha and doesnt have cutoff its just large or small setting for the speaker as well as my sub doesnt have any cutoff its fixed to 25hz to 100hz setting. what im thinking is the fs have a very conservative specs (60hz to 20khz) and that it can go lower than the 60hz specs, why I say so is because when i tried turning off the sub and directing the bass all to the fronts it sounds good even in music it sounds good without sub
If you set the fs to large, it is reproducing all frequencies. Therefore, there is no xover. The sub is not working. You need a xover if you pass some of the bass to the sub, i.e., the frequencies below the xover.
If you set the FS to small through the AVR, the AVR must set a xover point. Check the manual. Usually, the xover is 80 Hz.
As a principle, it's better to set the FS to "small" and use a sub. The main reason is that you position the FS for imaging while you position the sub for smoother bass. You normally cannot get both (good imaging and smooth bass) if you use FS without subs. If you are getting poor performance from the sub, there seems to be something wrong with your subs.
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If you set the fs to large, it is reproducing all frequencies. Therefore, there is no xover. The sub is not working. You need a xover if you pass some of the bass to the sub, i.e., the frequencies below the xover.
If you set the FS to small through the AVR, the AVR must set a xover point. Check the manual. Usually, the xover is 80 Hz.
As a principle, it's better to set the FS to "small" and use a sub. The main reason is that you position the FS for imaging while you position the sub for smoother bass. You normally cannot get both (good imaging and smooth bass) if you use FS without subs. If you are getting poor performance from the sub, there seems to be something wrong with your subs.
then my sub is crappy:'(
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then my sub is crappy:'(
Baka proper setting lang. Saan ang area mo?
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sir why don't you post the models of your AVR & SUB, so we can have an idea what proper settings for your system, or much better if you can post pics... :)
check the user's manual on how to setup the crossover settings both the AVR & SUB..
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then my sub is crappy:'(
First thing to do is to try to move the sub. You should try the "sub crawl" technique. That's a free tweak. Pagod lang at tiyaga.
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then my sub is crappy:'(
check phase muna
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check phase muna
Pwede ... but my understanding is that the phase control of a sub is valid for only one particular frequency. It may improve on the response for that frequency while making the others worse.
I think polarity may be more critical. If the polarity is reversed, the bass will disappear. That should be easy to check.
Ano tingin mo, tokayo?
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Pwede ... but my understanding is that the phase control of a sub is valid for only one particular frequency. It may improve on the response for that frequency while making the others worse.
I think polarity may be more critical. If the polarity is reversed, the bass will disappear. That should be easy to check.
Ano tingin mo, tokayo?
i'm referring to the phase relationship between sub & fronts. kasi ts didn't mention loss of bass sa fronts.
if out of phase there could be nulls in not just one but in several overlapping frequencies, lalo na kung di matched ang levels at distances. kaya nga highly recommended ang 80hz cutoff di ba tukayo? ika nga, no need to reinvent the wheel. ;D
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Spent whole night tuning and checked the phase as well both the sub and woofer are moving in same phase.later will try putting acoustic panels and moving the sub to different position will update the thread later today again
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yup, try moving your sub around. sometimes improper sub location messes up the whole system... if you're using towers all around plus the sub and has set the setting to large, it's all rumble that you'll hear... try to balance everything, try the 80hz setting for the towers and let the sub do the lows with proper placement of course... good luck!
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yup, try moving your sub around. sometimes improper sub location messes up the whole system... if you're using towers all around plus the sub and has set the setting to large, it's all rumble that you'll hear... try to balance everything, try the 80hz setting for the towers and let the sub do the lows with proper placement of course... good luck!
location of the sub solved the problem and yes small setting sounds better with the mids and highs, better staging as well. I put the sub on the left side between the left front and surround left then placed acoustic panel at the back of the sub
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location of the sub solved the problem and yes small setting sounds better with the mids and highs, better staging as well. I put the sub on the left side between the left front and surround left then placed acoustic panel at the back of the sub
Hehe! Congrats! Free tweak! :)
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Thanks guys for the help, learned so much