PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
High-Def => General HD Discussion => Topic started by: Tavus on Feb 17, 2012 at 08:31 PM
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Ever hear of 4k? CES says its the next big thing, (well aside from online distribution). Its going to replace standard blu-rays in the next few years. Its essentailly blu ray but with larger capacity and 4x the resolution.
HD is like 1920x1020 and then 4k its like 4096x2160, which is huge difference and good for those with projectors. Obviously it will be expensive for early adapters.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/4k-revolution (http://www.hometheater.com/content/4k-revolution)
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That's already movie grade. It will be gorgeous in a floor to ceiling 3D LCD display.
I don't think there will be any consumer grade disc capable of accommodating the required data size for a 1.5 hour movie. It will have have to come from online cloud computing with video content streamed to your home at broadband speeds exceeding 10 mbps.
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with HEVC and BDXL, this may be a reality for the consumer market within the near future. question is, when will sufficiently large screens that show the benefits of 4K be actually mainstream
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I was chatting recently with the cinematographer for the movie Prometheus and he says that the differences between 2K and 4K are inperceptible to the human eye as far as home cinema is concerned. Would have to be a screen larger than 25 feet to be even slightly noticeable.
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I was chatting recently with the cinematographer for the movie Prometheus and he says that the differences between 2K and 4K are inperceptible to the human eye as far as home cinema is concerned. Would have to be a screen larger than 25 feet to be even slightly noticeable.
if the product is out there, people would still buy it regardless of whether the supposed advantages are perceptible or not.
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marketing rules! ;D
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Titanic 3D was remastered in 4K and it turned out to be the most "high def" movie I've seen in a theater.
Kung sa home HDTV, why not. I can see the difference between 1mp and 2mp panels clearly. 8mp should be quite nicer.
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THE handiest way to adopt the 4000-resolution promise is to take the SONY BDP-S790 Blu-ray player. This $250.00 (thats guesstimatedly pegged at P10,750.) consumer-grade BD player has yet to be officially released, no, unleashed to the North American market. Not yet listed on the Amazon site. But some lucky fellows has gotten the earliest stocks, these guys reported in the AVSForum BD thread that the Sony 790 has notches better resolution and sharpness than even the Oppo 93. While their evaluation is not by all means authoritative, one of the early owners whose words on the domain of front projector-high definition player setups is hard to refute - has placed his sober imprimatur on the tangible edge of the 4K image from the Sony against that of the $500 Oppo.
Sony has been commercially wounded now for many years, its impressive TVs dogged with sinking sales (and in the Pinoy context, Bravias are expensive, I myself couldn't own one). But with this trailblazing BD player, Sony has a redeeming product, perhaps an unwitting Oppo killer. A few more quarters and the front projector makers is going to unleashed their 4K beamers too, this is the A/V realm to watch for. For what good is such resolution when used in a mere 50, 60 or 65 inch TV?
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only a handful of monitors and projectors support 4K now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution)
all of them are out of reach of most people's budgets. :(
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^ years back flat panels were not so affordable to the common working guy, but now you know how it is :)
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if the product is out there, people would still buy it regardless of whether the supposed advantages are perceptible or not.
Agreed.
When I relocate to Holland I will be upgrading my projector. Though I doubt if I will go for 4K. It will most probably be a Panasonic 7000.
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so far, 4k is the marketing pitch that is being rolled-out on the new AVR products of Denon ... i haven't checked the other brands but it is likely the same case ... it might probably take more time on the local tv market for them to start on 4k products - they are still on the 3D and Smart TV market push ... and on the media, i think they need more than current BD standard to support the expected file sizes
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If 4k goes mass market, especially regarding motion pictures, then the studios will rerelease their old movies in the new resolution and empty our pockets once again ;)
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well, here we go a 84 inch 4k tv by LG :
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/19/lg-84-inch-ultra-definition-4k-hdtv/ (http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/19/lg-84-inch-ultra-definition-4k-hdtv/)
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I dont think so... ;D
This will be like the LASER disc... :D
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youll probably not aappreciate it with a 50 inch screen. 4k tech is gunning for larger screens bigger than 60 inches. in a 5-6 years time expect screen sizes of 90 inch or more being common.
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youll probably not aappreciate it with a 50 inch screen. 4k tech is gunning for larger screens bigger than 60 inches. in a 5-6 years time expect screen sizes of 90 inch or more being common.
Higher resolution => Bigger Screen => Bigger HT => Bigger house >:(
Would this equate to the 3D effect without glasses?
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Higher Rez = Same Screen = Shorter Viewing Distance = Same HT Room/House ;D
It would equate to wearing contact lenses the very first time. ;D
Higher resolution => Bigger Screen => Bigger HT => Bigger house >:(
Would this equate to the 3D effect without glasses?
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It would also equate to a new format. Imagine, the two and a half minute uncompressed trailer of Spiderman 4 weighed in at 500GB. And a three-hour movie like Lord of the Rings will take up 3.16TB.
That is 212 standard 25GB Blu-ray discs. :o Not to mention the processing power it needs to play it w/o hiccups.
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How about 4K resolution for a 3D viewing. This makes the movie trully HD in terms of each eye seeing 1080p.
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It would also equate to a new format. Imagine, the two and a half minute uncompressed trailer of Spiderman 4 weighed in at 500GB. And a three-hour movie like Lord of the Rings will take up 3.16TB.
That is 212 standard 25GB Blu-ray discs. :o Not to mention the processing power it needs to play it w/o hiccups.
4k gives out total immersion.
Sonys trying hard to get new compression formats out. right now an standard 4k movie around 1 to 2 terabytes . imagine the difficulty storing it on a blu ray disk or worse streaming.
this is what sony is cooking up 1tb blu rays.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/sonys-blu-ray-replacement-to-store-1tb-on-a-single-disc/ (http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/sonys-blu-ray-replacement-to-store-1tb-on-a-single-disc/)
there is also another format coming out called red ray.
http://gizmodo.com/379566/red-ray-drive-plays-4k-2k-hd-video-from-red-disc-red-express-and-compactflash (http://gizmodo.com/379566/red-ray-drive-plays-4k-2k-hd-video-from-red-disc-red-express-and-compactflash)
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Boy isn't Sony awesome !! haha
4k gives out total immersion.
Sonys trying hard to get new compression formats out. right now an standard 4k movie around 1 to 2 terabytes . imagine the difficulty storing it on a blu ray disk or worse streaming.
this is what sony is cooking up 1tb blu rays.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/sonys-blu-ray-replacement-to-store-1tb-on-a-single-disc/ (http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/sonys-blu-ray-replacement-to-store-1tb-on-a-single-disc/)
there is also another format coming out called red ray.
http://gizmodo.com/379566/red-ray-drive-plays-4k-2k-hd-video-from-red-disc-red-express-and-compactflash (http://gizmodo.com/379566/red-ray-drive-plays-4k-2k-hd-video-from-red-disc-red-express-and-compactflash)
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Philippines has not entered the hd age yet and now there touting 8k:
8k streamed on the London Olympics
http://www.hometheater.com/content/8k-television-tests-wow-viewers (http://www.hometheater.com/content/8k-television-tests-wow-viewers)
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4k, 8K will never hit mass market. Blu-ray and Full HD TVs will be the combo for years to come esp. now that prices for both Full HD TVs and BD players have considerably come down. I think renting Blue Ray disks will have a market again in countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, India and the like. The combination of highprice BDs, push for DRM and the behavior of most to just watch 1-2x and store or re-sell unwanted BDs are a formula for for-rent original BD market.
Someone is already testing the market with this Blupass gimick. Before you know it, neighborhood for-rent BD stores will sprout like mushrooms and if the optical media board and NTC is smart and really wants to make a significant dent on piracy they will make it mandatory for BD players and/or digital TVs sold in the Philippines to have CINAVIA or another DRM.
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bookmarked
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4K will be absolutely necessary...
if what your trying to achieve at home would be an IMAX style experience (i.e. horizontal viewing angle of 60° or higher) :D
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sony 80 inch 4k:
http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/21/sony-80-inch-xbr-tv-4k-resolution/ (http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/21/sony-80-inch-xbr-tv-4k-resolution/)
PlayStation 4 to support 4k:
http://news.yahoo.com/sony-playstation-4-support-4k-resolution-161003188.html (http://news.yahoo.com/sony-playstation-4-support-4k-resolution-161003188.html)
lg 84 inch 4k
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ultra-Definition-Triple-XD-Engine-Cinema-3D-84-inches-3D-TV,17086.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ultra-Definition-Triple-XD-Engine-Cinema-3D-84-inches-3D-TV,17086.html)
It will still be a while before the sales of 4k picks up since there is no 4k content yet.
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I've already pre-oredered an ONKYO 616 4K upscaling to be ready when the 4k fever hits the PH
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just to infirm you guys that 4k might not be for everyone.:
you really need a large screen for it.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/ (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/)
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just to infirm you guys that 4k might not be for everyone.:
you really need a large screen for it.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/ (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/)
yep!
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4k, 8K will never hit mass market. Blu-ray and Full HD TVs will be the combo for years to come esp. now that prices for both Full HD TVs and BD players have considerably come down. I think renting Blue Ray disks will have a market again in countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, India and the like. The combination of highprice BDs, push for DRM and the behavior of most to just watch 1-2x and store or re-sell unwanted BDs are a formula for for-rent original BD market.
Someone is already testing the market with this Blupass gimick. Before you know it, neighborhood for-rent BD stores will sprout like mushrooms and if the optical media board and NTC is smart and really wants to make a significant dent on piracy they will make it mandatory for BD players and/or digital TVs sold in the Philippines to have CINAVIA or another DRM.
Kahit na mahit ang market like lang ng full HD na kahit naka full HD na HDTV pero ang play is 720p. Parng aanhin ko ang 4k if di naman 4k ang play ko na source. ;) ;)
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new 4k tv fro sony XBR-84X900:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/XBR-84X900-4K-TV-3D-TV-Full-HD-PlayMemories,17262.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/XBR-84X900-4K-TV-3D-TV-Full-HD-PlayMemories,17262.html)
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the only way to know if 4k is worth is to see it. you cant judge it with out experience it first.:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428193/4k-i-have-seen-the-light (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428193/4k-i-have-seen-the-light)
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the only way to know if 4k is worth is to see it. you cant judge it with out experience it first.:
I agree. I've seen and briefly used a 4k 10-bit monitor using a dual-link dvi interface. Glorious to say the least. :)
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I agree. I've seen and briefly used a 4k 10-bit monitor using a dual-link dvi interface. Glorious to say the least. :)
what is the size of the panel master ivan?
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what is the size of the panel master ivan?
It's a 56" pro/industrial screen used for design applications, master joko. The problem with these older pro implementations is that they run many cables (the screen is cut up to 4 areas, so the computer may see it as 4 monitors). The drivers would have to tell the OS to span those areas to let the screen work as a single monitor (like how Eyefinity works now).
That part is now greatly simplified with standalone devices and graphics adapters supporting 4k using a single HDMI connection. Unfortunately, HDMI 1.4a 4K is limited to a maximum of 30p so that probably means that we won't get fluid motion without motion interpolation. Maybe the next version of HDMI will have a provision for 4K 3D and higher frame rates.
I hope HEVC would get wide acceptance soon, as this may make 4k data more accessible.
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I believe that 4K, 8K or what Toshiba calls as super hi-vision is the next best thing in video resolution. There is a claim that the because of the additional number of pixels the resolution of the display is almost like that of a 3D tv.
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walang 2k?
4k agad :D
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FullHD 1080p (2.1 megapixels), for practical reasons, is already equivalent to Digital Cinema 2K (2.2 megapixels)
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walang 2k?
4k agad :D
Merong 2K. Punta ka sa appliance stores, ang dami. :D
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Merong 2K. Punta ka sa appliance stores, ang dami. :D
may last price kaya dun ???
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Sabi nung Sharp target nila is 2016 for an 8k tv set. blu ray in 4k or 8k? well, where do i sign up? ;D
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If i'm not mistaken, 4K and 8K refers to one and the same. 1920 x 1080 is referred to as full HD. If we multiply those figures we'll come up with 7680 x 4320. if the said number are rounded off, then 7680 = 8K and 4320 = 4K. Just my thoughts.
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magkaiba pa yan bro. yung 4k = 8megapixel camera picture size. 8k is higher pa talaga.
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Thanks for the enlightenment brother.
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time to throw out those old screen size vs viewing distance charts?
(http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.png)
ito na daw ngayon:
(http://cdn.avsforum.com/4/4c/600x376px-LL-4cd4431b_200ppdengleski.png)
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Not possible for 90% of living rooms worldwide.. no money for this market but of course I could be always wrong..
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Saw the LG Ultra HDTV in Anson's Makati yesterday. You won't miss this huge tv in the middle of their store. It's quite impressive watching 3d on this gigantic TV but it comes with a price tag of P800k++ :o :o :o One customer tests his Avengers 1080p (Kakabili nya lang daw sa Greenhills with his other movies) via usb. One thing that caught my attention is the motion blur it produces.
I asked the salesman kung may mga bumili na ng TV na yon. He said, tatlo na raw. One is the owner of Anson's, another person he don't know and Hayden Kho.
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I asked the salesman kung may mga bumili na ng TV na yon. He said, tatlo na raw. One is the owner of Anson's, another person he don't know and Hayden Kho.
wow,i wonder what Hayden watches with this TV... >:D
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wow,i wonder what Hayden watches with this TV... >:D
Alam na! hahaha
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Saw the LG Ultra HDTV in Anson's Makati yesterday. You won't miss this huge tv in the middle of their store. It's quite impressive watching 3d on this gigantic TV but it comes with a price tag of P800k++ :o :o :o One customer tests his Avengers 1080p (Kakabili nya lang daw sa Greenhills with his other movies) via usb. One thing that caught my attention is the motion blur it produces.
I asked the salesman kung may mga bumili na ng TV na yon. He said, tatlo na raw. One is the owner of Anson's, another person he don't know and Hayden Kho.
800k? :o this makes the JVC 4K Projectors @ 350k (starting) seem like a bargain! ::)
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800k? :o this makes the JVC 4K Projectors @ 350k (starting) seem like a bargain! ::)
Uy 350k lang pala and bargain yan na bilhin mo. >:D >:D
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Uy 350k lang pala and bargain yan na bilhin mo. >:D >:D
ayoko. takot ako sa multo. ;D
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Heard in the podshows that once there is 4K you wont need 3d since the 4K itself will be life like. And 3D will again disappear.
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Hopefully in the near future the manufacturers may be able to produce at least an affordable 40" tv that is 4k capable.
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i dont personally care about this 4k thing just give me a 47" vt50 and i will buy it release day :)
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I got to see Sony and LG's 84" 4K tvs at Anson's Makati the other day. 3D and PQ of both are good. I'm not that impressed by their size anymore though. ::) :P
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According to Sony, 4K video distribution would be available by Summer this year.
4K is driving larger screen sizes. Here's a 110" model:
(http://sammyhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/uhd-tv.jpg)
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No point going to 4k until 4k sources are actually available.
meron nga pakulo yung Sony na 4k remastered yung blu ray movies. Siyempre yung mga di marunong, mauuto. aakalain na 4k talaga bibilhin nila yun pala 4k source converted to 1080. LULZ.
I can only imagine how big the file size would be for actual 4k sources. Not practical pa unless they create a blu ray or other medium in which they can fit those 4k materials in.
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4k will be the future for theaters but not for households.. Apple TV will be the next best thing for consumers! :) Imagine how ugly would it be to have a 70" TV on a typical living room.. :) Im not buying it for sure. Like I said give me a 47" VT50 or Apple TV's retina and all those iOs goodness!! :)
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No point going to 4k until 4k sources are actually available.
meron nga pakulo yung Sony na 4k remastered yung blu ray movies. Siyempre yung mga di marunong, mauuto. aakalain na 4k talaga bibilhin nila yun pala 4k source converted to 1080. LULZ.
I can only imagine how big the file size would be for actual 4k sources. Not practical pa unless they create a blu ray or other medium in which they can fit those 4k materials in.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3848924/sony-launching-4k-video-distribution-service (http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3848924/sony-launching-4k-video-distribution-service)
I guess it's for people who are willing to wait on huge downloads. :P
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3848924/sony-launching-4k-video-distribution-service (http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3848924/sony-launching-4k-video-distribution-service)
I guess it's for people who are willing to wait on huge downloads. :P
good luck with that. Siyempre, impossible sa Pinas 'to. the movie has to be 4x the file size of 1080p blu ray rips. so that's at least 100GB for one movie. And if it's smaller than that, you can be sure na grabe yung compression and you won't even get the full potential of a 4k source...which defeats the purpose of adapting early for 4k.
Hayaan na lang natin ang Sony to try really hard to shove 4k into consumers' throats. Ni wala pang kalahati sa buong mundo ang nakapag adapt sa FullHD e, so pano nila iexpect mag-aadapt tao sa 4k. pft
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Cant wait to download a real 4K content for the sake of science. ;D
May kasalanan neto ay mga local telcos for not properly upgrading the wired infrastructure, because the projected numbers are still manageable in countries with fast ISP. ;D
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http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10214 (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10214) wow! ang dami nang 4K content! ;D
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http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10214 (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10214) wow! ang dami nang 4K content! ;D
Haha ganitong consumer sinasabi ko na nacoconfuse dahil may label 4k mastered. Loool
Sadly 4k master na converted to 1080p lang yan to fit sa regular 50gb bku ray disc. Dont be fooled. walang actual na 4k source blu ray as of now.
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Cant wait to download a real 4K content for the sake of science. ;D
There has always been 4k content on youtube for a while now. :)
For regular, non-"demo" content, my suggestion is to wait until HEVC gets standardized. With the huge push for 4k displays in CES, this may come sooner rather than later.
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There has always been 4k content on youtube for a while now. :)
For regular, non-"demo" content, my suggestion is to wait until HEVC gets standardized. With the huge push for 4k displays in CES, this may come sooner rather than later.
those available on youtube have very low bitrate. PQ is still way better with 1080p blu ray than 4k with very low bitrate
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This is another case of technology being shoved into the throats of consumers. They have already failed with 3D, becoming just a niche market. So what will they tell consumers who bought 3DHDTV sets just a month ago, upgrade again in less than a year?
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800k? :o this makes the JVC 4K Projectors @ 350k (starting) seem like a bargain! ::)
JVC's "4K e-shift" projectors aren't 4K. Their true 4K projectors belong to their Pro line for now (and they cost much much more).
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If I can buy a 4K TV within reasonably the same price range as that of current generation high-end 1080p sets, why not? Seriously, the new Sony 4K made 1080ps look dull side by side. 1080p in 3D may be a flop, but 4K in 2D is pretty darn impressive.
However, 1080p-level pricing for a 4K TV is not likely to happen that soon, while current high-end 1080ps are really really good. So let them brilliant engineers make 4K or 8K or whatever K TV tech evolve and mature as fast as possible. Hopefully, those CE makers would survive to see their R&Ds become commercial products.
This is another case of technology being shoved into the throats of consumers. They have already failed with 3D, becoming just a niche market. So what will they tell consumers who bought 3DHDTV sets just a month ago, upgrade again in less than a year?
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However, 1080p-level pricing for a 4K TV is not likely to happen that soon, while current high-end 1080ps are really really good. So let them brilliant engineers make 4K or 8K or whatever K TV tech evolve and mature as fast as possible. Hopefully, those CE makers would survive to see their R&Ds become commercial products.
I agree. The last thing I'd like to see is a sign of stagnation.
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Hopefully, those CE makers would survive to see their R&Ds become commercial products.
Actually, 8k technology was already available when Sony came out with Blu Ray back in 2006. SMPTE released the standards in 2007 and labeled it UHDTV1 (4k) and UHDTV2 (8k) In fact Blu ray 2k tech was already available in 2003. The first 8k camera was already demoed in 2005. So if the CE makers had wanted to, our Blu Ray today could already have been 8K. Afterall, there was already a 4-layer BR disc as early as 2005/6 capable of storing 125 GB. But, ofcourse, they won't rush it. (Although BD was rushed to compete with a more mature HD-DVD contender).
CE makers will want to milk the market with what would appear like evolving technology. This is called PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE and release their products accordingly. And the period in between two tech generations or the product lifecycle is getting shorter. VHS to DVD - 20 years. DVD to BD/2k: 10 years 2k to 4K: 5 years. 4k to 8k: possible in 2 years.
If you check market stats on television sales, it is a shrinking market where most people have already bought their flat panels during the last 1-3 years and are not having any reason to buy new ones or upgrade. Hence, CE makers need to make their products more attractive by shoving the 4K tech to consumers so they have a good reason to upgrade and start a new product lifecycle.
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In fact Blu ray 2k tech was already available in 2003.
D-VHS was the first consumer grade HD source (2001). We did enjoy it, despite the limited D-Theater releases.
(http://cdn.avsforum.com/0/0a/0a387bdd_vbattach37022.jpeg)
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Here's what I exactly mean by "commercial" product
I saw the Sony HDTV for the very first time in Tokyo sometime in 1991 - that's nearly 22 years ago! - but it was an experience you never forget and I told my then fiancee that I just saw a TV that felt like looking through a window. However, I finally could afford to buy my first 32 inch HDTV LCD AFTER NEARLY 15 YEARS! So the current HDTVs have been around like one human generation already and not just 5 or 10 years - it's not short at all ;D ;D
So if the 84 inch Sony 4K still costs around USD$25K and can only be purchased on special order, when do you reckon can I buy an 84 inch 4K for around USD5K? I'm sure it's not going to take 15 years too, but not really that soon I suppose. ;)
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There is often a gap between availability of the technology and its commercial readiness.
Commercializing a product depends on market conditions. The technology can be available 30 years ago, but its commercialization is often based on consumer demands, industry standardization and the determination of the CE makers to make a go for it. But it is clear that because the CE makers already have the technology, then it is a matter of designing their products with PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE.
And the gap between technology availability and commercialization is getting shorter and shorter, especially with television. You only need to count the years between VHS to DVD, DVD to 2k, and now 2k to 4k. 4k and 8k technologies are available during the last decade. And CE makers planned their products accordingly.
Then there is the pricing issue. It will always be that the "new" products in the market have a steep price because the CE makers will want to recoup their investments and R&D efforts done years ago at least for the first year of commercializing the new technology. I remember DVD players costing $1,000 when it was first introduced sometime in 1997. It took Betamax/VHS to become mass-affordable in 8 years, DVD in 4 years, and BD in 3 years. Same with television. First generation HDTV became mass-affordable in 6 years, the new LED TVs in 3 years and 3DHDTV in 2-3 years. That is because these products have achieved market traction from existing customers who upgraded. In addition, the LED and 3D were merely enhancements of an existing technology.
Now if the 4k and 8k products gain the same market traction, I would guess they will become mass-affordable in 2 years. The faster the CE's recover their investment, the sooner the mass-affordability gets. It helps when the technology is not really new, but merely evolutionary so that the R&D cost is small. From 480p to 2k is considered revolutionary because it jumped from CRT to flat panels. But 2k to 4k to 8k is not. They only increased the resolutions using the same but enhanced technology. OLED is another matter.
Having said that, 4k units even if they become mass-affordable, will have to maintain a pricing gap from 2k products in the same class and release year, even if the manufacturing cost of 2k and 4k products are almost the same. Otherwise, no one will be buying 2k TVs anymore, unless they plan to kill the 2Ks.
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D-VHS was the first consumer grade HD source (2001). We did enjoy it, despite the limited D-Theater releases.
(http://cdn.avsforum.com/0/0a/0a387bdd_vbattach37022.jpeg)
Yes, heard about D-VHS and D-Theater tapes at around the time I got my first DVD player and discovered the convenience of the medium. Watching home video is about convenience as much as picture quality. VHS may have the bandwidth to carry interlaced HD but searching for a track still required you to FF or REW. No such thing in a disc. You get to your desired section in a snap. So on hindsight, I never bothered with the format even if it offered superior picture to DVD, as I was too busy enjoying titles being released in DVD and experimenting on my 5.1 sounds. It was only later that I read about its failure in the market which to me was not really a surprise.
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Yes, heard about D-VHS and D-Theater tapes at around the time I got my first DVD player and discovered the convenience of the medium. Watching home video is about convenience as much as picture quality. VHS may have the bandwidth to carry interlaced HD but searching for a track still required you to FF or REW. No such thing in a disc. You get to your desired section in a snap. So on hindsight, I never bothered with the format even if it offered superior picture to DVD, as I was too busy enjoying titles being released in DVD and experimenting on my 5.1 sounds. It was only later that I read about its failure in the market which to me was not really a surprise.
Let me correct myself. D-VHS came out in 1998 and not in 2001. Concerts looked exceptionally clear on an H-DILA RPTV. :)
D-VHS' capacity is actually the same as Bluray (upto 50GB). 1080p components didn't exist back then though and the compression used was still MPEG-2.
Aside from the lower cost and operational convenience, most people were still on SD back then. That pretty much killed D-VHS.
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It looks like there won't be any physical disc for 4K content. It may be distributed through internet downloads.
From AVS Forums:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450935/no-plans-for-new-4k-disc-format-sony
With all this 4K talk at CES this year and no one knows where the content will come from, everyone is asking themselves, how will the content be transmitted?
There's been some teasers from Samsung and Netflix but no real details have been announced yet.
After Sony announced plans on "Mastered in 4K Blu-Rays", Sony's CEO Kaz Hirai told The Verge the following:
A physical format might sound like a good stop-gap, but Kaz doesn’t think 4K distribution will go that way
What about downloads and bandwidth caps from service providers?
It might seem early for an internet-based 4K distribution platform given that even Sony admits the massive downloads might take days, but Sony does have some experience with 50GB downloads in the realm of PS3 game distribution. When speaking to us today, Kaz called the adaptation to these long download times a “journey” for consumers that will hopefully be eased eventually by fatter internet pipes to the home.
The Real plan for now:
“I think as the industry evolves 4K, [it] might decide that a disc format might be something that the consumers are looking for,” Kaz admitted to us. “But at this point, before we get into that sort of format, we’re looking for distribution through the network.”
says Hirai.
Also from:
New disc format for 4K content unlikely, says Sony CEO
Kaz Hirai points to digital distribution methods
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/385531/new-disc-format-for-4k-content-unlikely-says-sony-ceo/
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Why am i not surprised? With 86mbps average download speeds from Virgin Media's 100mbps package in the UK, for instance, one can download a 100gb 4k movie in just a few minutes. (less than 30 mins)
Home video distributors will no longer have to spend packaging physical discs. The cost will now be shifted to consumers who will have to spend for faster broadband internet services.
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A 100mbps (megabits per second) connection can only max at approx. 12MB/sec (megabytes per second) DL speed. A 100GB (gigabytes) content will take about 2.3 hours if such max speed is sustained. That's why I think it is still doable especially if the downloader can start watching while downloading.
But then even the very popular iTunes is deliberately compressing the bitrate with their 1080p and 720p Web DL contents so I dont know if Sony or other relevant players can develop the necessary system soon enough to stream 4K at full bitrate.
Why am i not surprised? With 86mbps average download speeds from Virgin Media's 100mbps package in the UK, for instance, one can download a 100gb 4k movie in just a few minutes. (less than 30 mins)
Home video distributors will no longer have to spend packaging physical discs. The cost will now be shifted to consumers who will have to spend for faster broadband internet services.
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2-3 hours of download time would be heaven for me. I currently download 720p 4.5GB MKV files and it takes me overnight to get it with a crappy SMART BRO connection.
I am sure some torrent-savvy guy can re-encode them down to a more manageable 40gb file the way many 1080p movies already look gorgeous at 10-12gb mkv files.
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Hi guys, long time lurker here. Just chiming in coz 4k is exciting.
H.265 to the rescue! ITU approved na (http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/27/itu-approves-h265-video-format/). Will encode current content in half the bandwidth, or support future resolutions (4k) using current storage media.
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at the office I dl movies I screen before getting the blu ray. usual file size of the 720p files i get range from 4 to 6gb. it takes roughly 5hrs on a good day to dl one file. 3G here can go as fast as 800kB/s. It will definitely take a while for a 4k file to DL.
Plus if it's smaller file size, you can expect that it has lower bitrate and the quality will be subpar.
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B R I G H T!!!
Hi guys, long time lurker here. Just chiming in coz 4k is exciting.
H.265 to the rescue! ITU approved na (http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/27/itu-approves-h265-video-format/). Will encode current content in half the bandwidth, or support future resolutions (4k) using current storage media.
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at the office I dl movies I screen before getting the blu ray. usual file size of the 720p files i get range from 4 to 6gb. it takes roughly 5hrs on a good day to dl one file. 3G here can go as fast as 800kB/s. It will definitely take a while for a 4k file to DL.
Plus if it's smaller file size, you can expect that it has lower bitrate and the quality will be subpar.
Clamour your senators and reps to bring foreign telecoms firms to operate here. Virgin Media in the UK already offers 100Mbps with average 86 Mbps downloads for a mere equivalent of P3T a month.
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Hi guys, long time lurker here. Just chiming in coz 4k is exciting.
H.265 to the rescue! ITU approved na (http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/27/itu-approves-h265-video-format/). Will encode current content in half the bandwidth, or support future resolutions (4k) using current storage media.
Na-anticipate kaya ito ng developers so we can have the codec upgrades for media players?
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Na-anticipate kaya ito ng developers so we can have the codec upgrades for media players?
I have doubts. Medyo mabigat sa processing ang H.265, unless magshortcut sila ng husto sa decoding.
Opportunity pa sa kanila yan para makabenta ng bago. ;)
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HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) was on CES, too.
I actually think this will likely end up being the more prominent standard as there are some companies and devices which already support it.
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HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) was on CES, too.
I actually think this will likely end up being the more prominent standard as there are some companies and devices which already support it.
I agree that it is the way forward. It'd take sometime for mass adoption because current hardware could not decode it natively. I'd suppose that the majority of current desktops and laptops (outside of nettops and netbooks) can handle HD HEVC playback with a software decoder, however.
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baka kailangan na ng consumer based na bandwidth accelerators like Riverbed in the future
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HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) was on CES, too.
I actually think this will likely end up being the more prominent standard as there are some companies and devices which already support it.
AFAIK HEVC is H.265. HEVC is part of the name, so just like H.264 is H.264/AVC, H.265 is H.265/HEVC
Obviously pure software based players and HTPCs will easily support it, but devices based on fixed function chips won't.
Here's the official ITU press release:
http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2013/01.aspx
ITU-T H.265 / ISO/IEC 23008-2 HEVC will provide a flexible, reliable and robust solution, future-proofed to support the next decade of video. The new standard is designed to take account of advancing screen resolutions and is expected to be phased in as high-end products and services outgrow the limits of current network and display technology.
Companies including ATEME, Broadcom, Cyberlink, Ericsson, Fraunhofer HHI, Mitsubishi, NHK, NTT DOCOMO and Qualcomm have already showcased implementations of HEVC. The new standard includes a ‘Main’ profile that supports 8-bit 4:2:0 video, a ‘Main 10’ profile with 10-bit support, and a ‘Main Still Picture’ profile for still image coding that employs the same coding tools as a video ‘intra’ picture.
The ITU/ISO/IEC Joint Collaborative Team on Video Coding (JCT-VC) (formerly JVT) will continue work on a range of extensions to HEVC, including support for 12-bit video as well as 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 chroma formats. Another important element of this work will be the progression of HEVC towards scalable video coding. The three bodies will also work within the Joint Collaborative Team on 3D-Video (JCT-3V) on the extension of HEVC towards stereoscopic and 3D video coding.
Alex Zambelli's blog has some very good insight on H.265/HEVC for those interested in further reading:
http://blogs.iis.net/alexzam/archive/2013/01/28/h-265-hevc-ratification-and-4k-video-streaming.aspx
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Reality was, the first draft of H.264 was made in 1999 and then x264 encoder FINALLY came 5 years later in 2004. Therefore, it's definitely gonna take YEARS until there's something tangible for H.265. I think it won't take 5 years like that of H.264 but we are certainly still years away.
Hence, mabuhay ang 1080p transfers & encodes and 1080p players and decoders!
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"Asked by reporters if Sony planned to extend the 4K delivery service to TV sets from competitors, Hirai said that might happen eventually, but it would initially be restricted to Sony TVs"
http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=1813A7DB-9D0A-EBA2-EBCA2832EA1CCD32
Looks like consumers buying 4k sets from Panasonic or other brands will not be able to watch Sony Pictures movies "initially."
Sony will now use its movie making muscle and catalogue as a competitive tool to boost its lagging consumer TV business.
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4k video from Audi on youtube
select "original" on the quality selector
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69rsjwS4CA4
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From Blu-ray.com:
BDA: Decision on 4K Discs Coming Up
April 27, 2013
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) has confirmed that it is considering format extensions that could enable 4K content playback on Blu-ray. The confirmation was issued in a statement which was sent to CNET.
To enable 4K content playback on Blu-ray, the BDA members will have to agree on new codecs and resolution limits, amongst other things.
A final recommendation on the future of 4K Blu-ray is expected later this year.
Here's the statement the BDA sent to CNET:
"As part of its ongoing responsibility to maintain Blu-ray Disc as the premium platform for watching movies and other content at home, the BDA established a task force last year to study a range of possible format extensions, including those that potentially enable 4K content playback on Blu-ray.
Through the first quarter of this year, the task force solicited and received numerous proposals, and is now evaluating the various technologies.
The task force, which is comprised of representatives from BDA member studios, consumer electronics manufacturers and media technology companies, looks forward to sharing with and receiving input from content creators, and is expected to make specification and technology recommendations to the Blu-ray Disc Association board of directors later this year."
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Just saw 2 weeks ago in Japan. Grabe yung presyo yung iba umabot pa ng higit 2 million yen :o I dont really see that much of a difference though compared to a 1080p tv, but that's just me
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/TheSaxMen/IMG_0188.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/TheSaxMen/media/IMG_0188.jpg.html)
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4K material will be available to non-Sony TV owners through the Sony Entertainment Network.
This $699 4K media player is required for the downloads:
(http://news.consumerreports.org/assets_c/2013/07/CRO_electronics_Sony-FMP-X1_07-13-thumb-598xauto-7190.jpg)
A 4K movie costs $30 to own and $7.99 to rent. I hope they open up this online store to HTPC users, as a lot of us have 4K capable PCs.
People with 4K TVs probably won't mind the $699 price tag for the media box.
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100GB Blu-ray Disc Hints at 4K Playback:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Ultra_HD/4K/100GB_Blu-ray_Disc_Hints_at_4K_Playback_/12574
Singulus Technologies Develops Replication Line for 100GB Blu-ray Discs:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=12140
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http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL028965 (http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL028965)
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4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in Late 2015:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=14923