Been reading (understanding is another thing) on Bypass capacitors in the power supply section of an amplifier. Anyone done this here and what were the effectnaku, parang san mig light!
no, i never used them on my tube amps and i never seem to miss them.......there was a time when bypass on the psu was a big deal.....times have changed and thinking likewise changed .....+1 ;D
but you are welcome to try......and find out for yourself...;D
no, i never used them on my tube amps and i never seem to miss them.......there was a time when bypass on the psu was a big deal.....times have changed and thinking likewise changed .....there is an interesting thread here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/216409-power-supply-resevoir-size.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/106648-paralleling-film-caps-electrolytic-caps.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/212563-power-supply-capacitors.html
but you are welcome to try......and find out for yourself...;
+1 ;D
sound varies depending on the material of the bypass caps. Polypropelene cleans the sound, but most of the time, its way to clean, with irritating highs. Trying this is like cooking kare kare for the first time, malaki ang chance na palpak! Unless may master chef ka na kasama. It will all depend sa panlasa mo, kaso minsan, since ikaw ang nagluto, di mo.minsan makain kasi naumay kana. Sori, mali yata ang comparison ko. ;D
How can I go wrong ??? Ang dami kong master chef na kasama sa Internet ;Dhehehehe!!! Nice! ive actually tried it on ss and tube amps, and as I always say it depends sa panlasa mo, there will always be a some sort of trade off, like an amp with warm sound and less detail may gain higher resolution, greater details loosing its warmth and may add sibilance, so para talaga itong cooking, you should try different spices. (different types of caps) ::)
I use small bypass caps. no i don't expect the bass to shape shift, the midrange to become a liquid or the treble to be sifted of pebbles. just to improve psu impedance and prevent oscillation. ;)
Adding bypass capacitors does not improve PSU impedance (additional capacitors lower impedance) nor does it prevent oscillation. Bypass capacitor are used to minimize high speed transients or spikes.yun nga, bypass caps will lower psu impedance. di ba improvement yun?
To prevent oscillation you need to make sure that you properly compensate your feedback loop and make sure your loop area is small (this is in the amplifier section).
Mas maganda mataas na impedance kesa mababa. Mahirap i-drive kapag mababa impedance.huh? we're discussing psu, not load, impedance. di ba amps benefit from low impedance psus? yung ibang battery-powered amps nga nag-o-oscilate pa pag low batt kasi high impedance na.
Kung hindi stable ang feedback loop mag-ooscillate yung power supply kahit ano pang bypass cap ilagay mo.power supply ba o amplifier ang nag-o-oscillate from unstable feedback? ::)
huh? we're discussing psu, not load, impedance. di ba amps benefit from low impedance psus? yung ibang battery-powered amps nga nag-o-oscilate pa pag low batt kasi high impedance na.
power supply ba o amplifier ang nag-o-oscillate from unstable feedback? ::)
you are of course correct....thanks for the confirmation! makes me proud to know about these stuff despite not having an electrical/electronics degree.
kung linear regulated psu, then yung error amplifier nya kapos ng gain after feedback, malamang ang oscillations....;Dmy line of thought was a linear unregulated psu driving an amplifier, ito kasi recently ang pinagkakaabalahan ni ts qguy. my responses are aligned to this.
oopps.. my bad, the application is for a Solid State amp, iba ba ang effect ng bypass on SS vs Tube amp ?
good morning rascal! :)
huh? we're discussing psu, not load, impedance. di ba amps benefit from low impedance psus? yung ibang battery-powered amps nga nag-o-oscilate pa pag low batt kasi high impedance na.
power supply ba o amplifier ang nag-o-oscillate from unstable feedback? ::)
Ang ideal voltage source ay infinite impedance. Ang ideal current source ay zero impedance. Ang power supply at battery ay mga voltage source.A Voltage Source with ZERO INTERNAL resistance is an Ideal Voltage Source.
you are of course correct....
kung linear regulated psu, then yung error amplifier nya kapos ng gain after feedback, malamang ang oscillations....;D
A Voltage Source with ZERO INTERNAL resistance is an Ideal Voltage Source.
An ideal current source has an infinite output impedance.
You got it mixed up. Naaalimpungatan ka pa yata. :)
Ang ideal voltage source ay infinite impedance. Ang ideal current source ay zero impedance.
walang problema. masaya ang aking family, work, social life and sexual activities. ehe! im just joking (hint: smiley) na naaalimpungatan ka yata kaya baligtad pagkasabi mo:
i think i've explained enough. a bit too much even. ;D logging out...
Ang ideal voltage source ay infinite impedance. Ang ideal current source ay zero impedance. Ang power supply at battery ay mga voltage source.
Dalawang sections ang linear power supply. Iyung series pass transistor o FET at iyung gain section (feedback amplifier). Nakikita ng feedback loop iyung mataas na capacitance sa input. Kung mababa ang output kailangan niya itaas iyung feedback voltage para bumaba iyung collector to emitter resistance (transistor) o drain to source resistance (FET). Paano niya maitataas iyung feedback voltage ng mabilis kung masyado mababang impedance nakikita niya?
thanks for the confirmation! makes me proud to know about these stuff despite not having an electrical/electronics degree.
my line of thought was a linear unregulated psu driving an amplifier, ito kasi recently ang pinagkakaabalahan ni ts qguy. my responses are aligned to this.
but then again i'm also guilty of off-topic postings. ;D
you learn a lot of things when you have an open mind.....;D
you learn a lot of things when you have an open mind.....;D
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw a lot of rubbish into it.
parang Matrix lang ah... free your mind ;D
parang Matrix lang ah... free your mind ;D
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw a lot of rubbish into it.
--William Orton
yun lang! :P
Ito ay para ... alam niyo na kung sino kayo ... :)
Kung iniisip ninyo na zero resistance iyung ideal voltage source at infinite iyung resistance ng
current source (ibig sabihin lumilihis na kayo sa mga original na pi-nost ninyo at baka iba rin
kasi iyung inisip ninyo sa sinulat ninyo), ang tanong ko ay ganito.
- Paano kung zero resistance ang voltage source? Oo, iyung series resistance niya puwede
maging zero gaya ng nasabi ninyo kamakailan - agree ako dito. Pero tandaan natin V = I x R.
Puwede bang maging zero ang voltage sa voltage source?
- Paano magiging current source kung infinite ang kanyang resistance? Paano kung naglagay
ako ng infinite resistance na load? Saan ngayon pupunta ang kuryente galing sa current source?
Humihingi ang load pero ayaw magbigay ng current iyung current source?
Sa totoo lang kaya ako sumagot dito sa thread na ito dahil napansin ko lang na parang wala ng
kinakakatakutan isa sa inyo. Palibhasa siguro may backer siya kaya kahit anong i-post okay
lang. Lagi nga niya sinasabi "Thanks for the confirmation" ... Ganoon naman ang kalakaran ninyo
hindi ba? Isa susulpot kapag sumagot ang isa. Hindi kaya dahil sa pursyento sa sales? Haaa!!!!
Eh kung ganoon, puwede bang sama na rin ako ... :) good boy na ako sa susunod ... ;)
Tungkol naman sa tunog lalo na sa mga mahilig magkalikot tulad natin ... para hindi OT ...
Kung sa pagkakalikot ay wala kayong narinig na improvement eh di sabihin ninyo paulit ulit ...
wala kasing tunog ang capacitors ... este bypass capacitors pala. Wala naman problema iyon basta
kaya niyong panagutan mga sinabi ninyo. Hindi naman lahat tayo focus sa magandang tunog ... ;)
... lalo ako kasi ... guilty as charged ako sa mga graphs, plots at anu ano pa ... wala ring tunog ang
mga ito ... hehehe
Did it ever occur to you that not everything is discussed in the internet? Hindi ibig sabihin na naglagay ka ng link ay tama lahat. Kung mali ako sumabog na mga gawa ko kasi nga mali ako. Suggest ko intindihin mo ang ibig sabihin ng theorem at law. Another suggestion (tutal may bench set-up ka naman), verify everything at bench.
Please stop your linking to the internet. Why don't you speak from your experience? You have lots of it. Even much more than me.
Sa totoo lang kaya ako sumagot dito sa thread na ito dahil napansin ko lang na parang wala ng
kinakakatakutan isa sa inyo. Palibhasa siguro may backer siya kaya kahit anong i-post okay
lang. Lagi nga niya sinasabi "Thanks for the confirmation" ... Ganoon naman ang kalakaran ninyo
hindi ba? Isa susulpot kapag sumagot ang isa. Hindi kaya dahil sa pursyento sa sales? Haaa!!!!
Eh kung ganoon, puwede bang sama na rin ako ... :) good boy na ako sa susunod ... ;)
for those technically inclined, this is the bible of capacitors.....http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/index.html
ganito na lang rascal, sa diyaudio ka magpost ng mga pino-post mo dito, ng magkaalaman na... ;)
Wag naman ganun rascal, kaya lang siguro sumusulpot kasi interesante dun sa naka post and it so happens that it's a technical one and sure enough technical people will post diba?
Bakit kailangan matakot? May ginagawa ba tayo masama? :)
You say I am rubbish so you want to educate me. You said the same thing when we were discussing the current after the rectifier diode before the bulk capacitor on the linear power supply. Then much later posted a similar graph as the previous one I posted.
Please take a good look at yourself. Are you really trying to educate? Or are you the one being educated? You build things. This is much like the people I work here in China yet some of these people have no engineering background. But kudos to these people, they really know how to build good power supplies - well they know how to copy good power supplies. You are way way way much better than these guys. Please act like one. If you want to educate, please be kind enough to explain through thoughtful words. One from experience not through links.
I never said anything bad against you. I have always thought of you as someone to look up to. I do not understand your comment.
Para hindi OT ...
Bypass capacitors are generally good specially if they are polyester and polypropelene capacitors. I have personally not tried ceramic COG/NPO and Silver Mica capacitors as bypass capacitors. However, monreq has tried Silver Mica and I think it was so-so. Some gains and some losses. One range of frequency is good and other frequency not so. So I guess it depends. Kung medyo dull iyung tunog ng amplifier puwede siguro Silver Mica.
I have read that the bypass capacitors is placed to prevent some high frequencies from entering the system in case that there is..
I think this answers why some hear a difference and some dont, if you place a bypass capacitor and it improves the sound then, you would say it makes a difference. Now if your amp system does not have those issues and you place a bypass capacitor, you would say that putting bypass capacitors is useless, so basically its system dependent. This also answers why some amplifers has it and some dont from the same manufacturer.
Been reading (understanding is another thing) on Bypass capacitors in the power supply section of an amplifier. Anyone done this here and what were the effectBTT:
most of the time I try putting bypass caps I believe I gain something, such as clarity/transparency. bass seems to lessen, but comes back after 40 hours or so. sometimes the sound gets more mid to high focus and bass becomes tighter or sometimes lesser (nawawala yung gapang). so i believe most of the people who posted here believes that putting a bypass capacitor is better than putting nothing at all, the next question is, "what should be the value of the bypass capacitor?" is there a computation for this? some people put 1% of the value of the ecap to be bypassed.so whats the standard? ;D cge na, baka mali ang akala ko, nangati tuloy ang kamay ko! ;D
Sa akin experience lang ito so huwag niyo akong sisihin kong hindi epektibo sa inyo.what if i have 10x1500uf panasonic fm caps on my power supply in parallel, paano ang value ng bypass? Kailangan ba per cap ang bypass or isang bypass cap lang para na sa buong value ng lahat ng caps?
Kung ano man ang value ng bulk capacitor i-divide mo ng 720. So, kung ang bulk capacitor ay 10,000uF ang bypass capacitor ay 13.95uF o 15uF.
ecaps are known to have higher esr at higher frequencies, therefore film type caps are used to make up for the increasing esr as frequency increases........film caps are better in terms of esr at the higher frequencies.....nice amp!!! how do you compute for the value of your bypass caps? Tsaka mukhang may kasama pa na resistor in parallel din, how do you compute for the value of your resistor? Sana di mo na pinost yung pix, nangati tuloy ang kamay ko na magkalikot! Hehehe! TIA
this is my super leach amp, it uses 56000ufd/100vdc computer grade filter caps bypassed with a rifa 2.2ufd/250volt film cap.....this is more than 20 years old now and will be refurbished soon....this amp is capable of 250watts per channel into 8ohms, both channel driven...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20leach/AmpFront-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20leach/AmpTop-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20leach/AmpRSide-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20leach/AmpLSide-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/tony%20leach/AmpBack-1.jpg)
esr increases as the voltage rating of the ecap is approached, that is why some use the caps at 80% of its voltage rating, say a cap is rated 100vdc working, so rectified voltage of 80volts is applied to the cap....
another technique is to use several cans in parallel instead of just one, several small caps will have their esr's paralleled, better imho....
what if i have 10x1500uf panasonic fm caps on my power supply in parallel, paano ang value ng bypass? Kailangan ba per cap ang bypass or isang bypass cap lang para na sa buong value ng lahat ng caps?
nice amp!!! how do you compute for the value of your bypass caps? Tsaka mukhang may kasama pa na resistor in parallel din, how do you compute for the value of your resistor? Sana di mo na pinost yung pix, nangati tuloy ang kamay ko na magkalikot! Hehehe! TIA
+1 here. Bigger capacitors sometimes too slow to react.
i built this amp at a time when bypass were in fashion.......i used caps that i had on hand......i do not know of any standard with respect to bypass caps.....hindi na rin uso ngayon yan, unlike 20 years ago... ;D
Mag post ka na sa diyaudio.
Hindi naman ako humihingi ng tulong sa iyo kaya okay lang. Itigil na natin ito kasi OT na tayo.
Additional info 14:51 ... I have posted in diyaudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/219634-voltage-sources-current sources.html#post3162977
Let's take it from there.
2.2 uf seems to be common.
They were in fashion 20 years ago because ?
qguy SS amp is 36 years old with two 22,000 uf caps, I willl put 2.2 uf film caps at 250 volts...unless someone tells me it will explode ;D
post not found daw....
Ang ideal voltage source ay infinite impedance. Ang ideal current source ay zero impedance. Ang power supply at battery ay mga voltage source.
qguy you are the author of this thread ;D you are making a war here!
another technique is to use several cans in parallel instead of just one, several small caps will have their esr's paralleled, better imho....
today's circuits like the gainclones have very high PSRR so that bypassing is not really needed.....circuit designs that are of high PSRR does not benefit from bypass...
War ??? nah
Were all friends here in pinoydvd, we have different views and beliefs and at the end of the day, each and everyones goal here is to help each other out...to find the ultimate bypass capacitor ..film, polypropolene or electrolytic , let the debate begin !!! ;D
post not found daw....
let us not forget, the Aikido tube preamp also has higher PSRR when compared to a simple common cathode amp....same as with tube LTP's......
eto yung complete link ng post nya - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/219634-voltage-sources-current-sources.html
electronics is an exact science....people create religions.....i will post back whenever i see technical half-truths are posted..........nothing personal..........baka maniwala kasi ang mga newbies....... ;D ;)
i have been personally attacked in this thread, pero hindi ko pinatulan......what matters to me is to get the facts straight.....when the truth is being attacked, you don't fight back by personally attacking the messenger....you fight back with the truth.....
paniniwalaan ba nitin ito? susunugin ko na ba ang mga electronics books ko?
The problem with you is when you see things like this you say rubbish and you put links. As I said if you want to educate you should say thoughtful things as you are the more experienced. You can check the responses in diyaudio. This is what I am talking about.
The reason I said infinite impedance is because across the voltage source itself there is no current. Furthermore I have thought that voltage sources consists of plates. And plates are not shorted but rather open.
War ??? nah
Were all friends here in pinoydvd, we have different views and beliefs and at the end of the day, each and everyones goal here is to help each other out...to find the ultimate bypass capacitor ..film, polypropolene or electrolytic , let the debate begin !!! ;D
Yes. That is correct. I admit it. Your response above benefits other people.
I like that you go through posts line by line unlike some people here who like issuing blanket replies.
Great! Don't worry about it, it happens to all of us.
Ganyan lang talaga si Tony, he's a swell guy naman.
Let's all get along and give qguy a lot to think about capacitors. :)
The problem with you is when you see things like this you say rubbish and you put links. As I said if you want to educate you should say thoughtful things as you are the more experienced. You can check the responses in diyaudio. This is what I am talking about. Act like one who is more experienced mentoring his students not like someone telling people fetch this and fetch that.
The reason I said infinite impedance is because across the voltage source itself there is no current. Furthermore I have thought that voltage sources consists of plates. And plates are not shorted but rather open.
Let's all get along and give qguy a lot to think about capacitors. :)
where in my post did i mention the word "rubbish"? that is the problem with you, when pointing out your mistakes, instead of taking it positively, you go on personally attacking me....markrenz is way much better than you in this regard....
your posting in diyaudio clearly shows your ignorance of the basic priciples.....high school physics pa lang tinuturo na yan......if you can admit that there, why can't you admit the same here?
stop posting your technical mambo jambles, you sound more like a comedian than a techie........ :D :D :D
that is also true and the sad part is when people throwing rubbish doesn't even know..... :o
the good news is that there is the internet to verify such things...... :D
but even then you really have to discern..... ;)
High school physics. Patawa ka naman. Ikaw siguro iyung comedian. Inadmit ko na high school physics sa diyaudio??? ... ikaw na rin nagsabi ... you are putting words in my mouth ... bad yan ... since sa iyo galing ito very bad yan ...
O sige na, tumahimik ka na. Dadami pa puting buhok mo. Tama ka. O ayan masaya ka na Professor. Damihan mo mga links mo para matuto ako. Wala kasi akong google eh.
Pag-usapan na lang natin iyung mga bypass capacitors. Type ko iyung polypropelene kasi maganda tumunog.
Ang napapansin ko lang sa mga circuit design ay pag may dadaanan na mahabang wire/copper trace, saka naglalagay ng bypass cap malapit sa load (yung component na gagamit nung current) to prevent oscillations.same principle..+ 1 to you bro. Also, using the right bypass cap matters a lot. One example is Wima MKP4 other bypass cap is also oil cap. I've been using it in poor PSU in DC Cap section. I am very happy with the results and others who heard and experienced it. :)
Kung stable naman yung amplifier no need na ng maraming bypass caps. Kahit yung output lang ng linear power supply at power input ng amplifier (end to end ng power supply wires) ang idadagdag mong bypass cap ok na yun. Another gastos at effort lang kung lalagyan mo pa ng iba.
Iilan lang sa mga tweaks ang may significant impact sa sound, at hindi eto yun hehehe...
Brod Rascal and Brod Tony T both of you are respectable Audio Geeks here, sometimes Electronics are like Religion, we have all with different interpretations somehow, we are all correct.+1M. ;)
qguy you are the author of this thread ;D you are making a war here!
Peace Brothers! Common! Stop this Technical Wars! :'(
FGS! qguy is just asking for a Bypass Caps hehehehehehehehe ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sometimes instead of bypass cap I just put high value resistor in parallel with e-caps. E-caps are really notorious as it takes very long time for them to discharge. Resistors are much faster than small value polyester, polypropelene, polystyrene and silver mica.
same principle..+ 1 to you bro. Also, using the right bypass cap matters a lot. One example is Wima MKP4 other bypass cap is also oil cap. I've been using it in poor PSU in DC Cap section. I am very happy with the results and others who heard and experienced it. :)
I know that the resistor would help discharge the caps after use. As for its use as a replacement for caps, wouldn't the dissipation ramp with voltage so minutely to be effective in damping ripple?
Me and monreq used to play with different caps like polypropelene, polystyrene and silver mica. Also we experiment putting them in series then putting these caps in parallel with the e-cap. This approach may work for some that is why I want to mention it here.
Sometimes instead of bypass cap I just put high value resistor in parallel with e-caps. E-caps are really notorious as it takes very long time for them to discharge.
Resistors are much faster than small value polyester, polypropelene, polystyrene and silver mica.
On the Bleeder Resistors..1. Mostly for safety purposes
1. Why do you need to discharge the capacitor ?
2. wouldnt that get overly hot when the amp is being used as it is continually being bombarded with current ?
3. Since its connected during operation, then it would act like a parasite eating away current during normal operation ? Ok sana kung naka "on" yung resistor when the AMP is off.
On the Bleeder Resistors..
1. Why do you need to discharge the capacitor ?
2. wouldnt that get overly hot when the amp is being used as it is continually being bombarded with current ?
3. Since its connected during operation, then it would act like a parasite eating away current during normal operation ? Ok sana kung naka "on" yung resistor when the AMP is off.
On the Bleeder Resistors..
1. Why do you need to discharge the capacitor ?
2. wouldnt that get overly hot when the amp is being used as it is continually being bombarded with current ?
3. Since its connected during operation, then it would act like a parasite eating away current during normal operation ? Ok sana kung naka "on" yung resistor when the AMP is off.
I have to admit that in my years as a hobbyist that this is the first time that I have ever heard of series bypass caps...
I believe the term is bleeder resistor. It is intended to slowly discharge the e-caps when powered down. I sure hope you are not saying that the resistor would improve the performance of the power supply.
You really lost me here... ::)
I have to admit that in my years as a hobbyist that this is the first time that I have ever heard of series bypass caps...
I believe the term is bleeder resistor. It is intended to slowly discharge the e-caps when powered down. I sure hope you are not saying that the resistor would improve the performance of the power supply.
You really lost me here... ::)
Resistors do not retain charge like caps do. I specifically mentioned speed up charging and discharging. Paano ba pabilisin pa kung hindi na pwede liitan un e-cap at may bypass cap ka na? Please enlighten me.
Putting caps in series then paralleling these to another cap? This cannot be done? Why? Masisira un cap?
@tonyt I have never said magic. This came from another person. Init pa rin ulo mo? Atakihin ka na niyan.
Resistors do not retain charge like caps do. I specifically mentioned speed up charging and discharging. Please read my post fully. Paano ba pabilisin pa kung hindi na pwede liitan un e-cap at may bypass cap ka na? Please enlighten me.kahit anong value ilagay na resistor in parallel with a cap, you cant change the charging speed of a capacitor unless you change the series resistance. kaya nga RC time constant ang tawag.
Putting caps in series then paralleling these to another cap? This cannot be done? Why? Masisira un cap?i sure hope you meant putting a cap in series with a resistor (RC snubber) then putting it in parallel with the other cap. just putting a cap in series to a psu will simply create a high pass filter.
Resistors do not retain charge like caps do. I specifically mentioned speed up charging and discharging. Please read my post fully. Paano ba pabilisin pa kung hindi na pwede liitan un e-cap at may bypass cap ka na? Please enlighten me.
Putting caps in series then paralleling these to another cap? This cannot be done? Why? Masisira un cap?
asa ka pa, nakaimbento nga ng "magic coils" eh gasino na yung caps.... ;D ;D ;D do not expect scientific explanations.....basta kung ano sinabi yun na.... ;)
Well, my take on this matter is, dont be afraid to try new things. Im someone who doesnt have technical background but keeps an open mind everytime i hear suggestions from people who have more experience than me. Medyo magastos nga lang, but still i was able to learn and compare those suggestions, one by one. Ive tried a lot of bypass caps on different amps, tube, ss, t-amps, even my dac. Even tried bypass caps on series, which ive not heard or read about in any thread in the internet, but it sounds good to me.
We have different personalities, others sticks by the book and all the theories/standards the electronic/electrical world has to offer, some would like to do experiments and deviate from the standards, and some listen to both (me) without considering whether its logical or not, only caring about how it sounds. So, i guess, what readers like me are looking for are the real world suggestion that you have tried and your impression of how it sounds and what improvements that you have heard. So please give a suggestion and impression of something that you have tried and then back it up with technical explanation later. Im not looking for someone who is better or brighter than the other, but someone who gives suggestion regarding the matter. Sensya na im just someone who reads most of the gurus posts if not all their posts. So please make this discussion worthwhile. ;D ;)
nawala ang antok ko kanina umaga... ;D ;D ;D hay...
Well, my take on this matter is, dont be afraid to try new things. Im someone who doesnt have technical background but keeps an open mind everytime i hear suggestions from people who have more experience than me. Medyo magastos nga lang, but still i was able to learn and compare those suggestions, one by one. Ive tried a lot of bypass caps on different amps, tube, ss, t-amps, even my dac. Even tried bypass caps on series, which ive not heard or read about in any thread in the internet, but it sounds good to me.
We have different personalities, others sticks by the book and all the theories/standards the electronic/electrical world has to offer, some would like to do experiments and deviate from the standards, and some listen to both (me) without considering whether its logical or not, only caring about how it sounds. So, i guess, what readers like me are looking for are the real world suggestion that you have tried and your impression of how it sounds and what improvements that you have heard. So please give a suggestion and impression of something that you have tried and then back it up with technical explanation later. Im not looking for someone who is better or brighter than the other, but someone who gives suggestion regarding the matter. Sensya na im just someone who reads most of the gurus posts if not all their posts. So please make this discussion worthwhile. ;D ;)
ako man, nagpaalis din ng antok, kakagising ko din lang.... :D
kahit anong value ilagay na resistor in parallel with a cap, you cant change the charging speed of a capacitor unless you change the series resistance. kaya nga RC time constant ang tawag.
pabilisin? di nga pwede kung di liliitan ang cap. key word: constant. i sure hope you meant putting a cap in series with a resistor (RC snubber) then putting it in parallel with the other cap. just putting a cap in series to a psu will simply create a high pass filter.
I know what you post, I got lost really. No resistor can speed up charging time, not even in a rc time constant. It can speed up discharge time of course.
I didn't say it cannot be done. All I said is this would be the very first time I would see it. Plus the notion of connecting a polyprop in series with a silver mica then using that as a bypass is truly unheard of.
it is not important to me how others perceive the sounds of their gears, kanila yon eh, kung saan sila masaya eh di pagbigyan ;D..........
imho what matters is what you hear on your gear, are you good?, are you happy? after all that is all that really matters..........not some anecdotes by cap changers.......... ;)
as a matter of principle i refrain from commenting on my own work, i let others make the comments, if they are happy and liked what they heard, then i am happy for them ;D........if they are not, i don't care ;D.......i don't DIY so as to impress others..........i do it to please myself only......i really do not care ......... ;)
Naka parallel sa bulk cap iyung capacitor kaya low pass filter iyun. Hindi ba bypass cap ang pinag-uusapan natin. Masita ka ni Sir tonyt niyan.ok navisualize ko na yung connections mo sa caps
Nababawasan iyung effective resistance in series sa bulk cap kaya nag-improve iyung charging time.ito ang di ko pa rin magets at di maka-agree kahit kailan. hindi bababa yung series resistance dahil naka-parallel ang resistor. in this case kasi na wala naman actual resistor in series doon sa psu, ang series resistance ay internal series resistance lang ng capacitor, na di mababago kahit anong resistor i-parallel mo. so ang time constant eh product ng capacitance at internal resistance ng capacitor. yung sinasabi mong resistor in parallel will appear as a load na. gets?
Hindi lang naman iyung esr ng bulk cap ang kino consider, meron din pcb trace resistance bago pa mag bulk. Kung maglalagay ako ng resistor na naka parallel sa bulk iyung magiging total resistance ay iyung computed resistance ng pcb trace at iyung esr then iparallel itong dalawa sa resistor. Mas mababa ang total resistance na ito.perhaps your buddies at diyaudio can help clarify yet another misunderstood electrical concept.
well perhaps i believe, I live in the matrix. Laws of science changes when there are updates regarding the matter, by those people who are bold enough to try and bend the law.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
There is nothing wrong when you try new things, this is how new inventions and discoveries are made. But there are Laws of Physics that had been there for centuries as a guide or a road map for us to follow. Unless you are living in "The Matrix", these Laws cannot be bent or broken.
The problem with the discussion usually starts when these Laws are bent and neglected because the doer was so convinced that what he did made a big difference in sound and that he can hear it. Even explaining it and recommending it to others.
Personality has nothing to do with this. Book, or theory, or actual it's all going to be the same as long as we are governed by the same Laws of Science.
Doctors need to study new ways of operating on a patient or a new drug. Lawyers need to be abreast with the latest Laws of the land. Keep an open mind?
it is not important to me how others perceive the sounds of their gears, kanila yon eh, kung saan sila masaya eh di pagbigyan ;D..........good for you brader! I think thats what we should advocate here in pdvd. We should not care, we should only care for ourselves and satisfy ourselves alone and be happy. Nice! Thanks for the advise, i will really keep this in mind.
imho what matters is what you hear on your gear, are you good?, are you happy? after all that is all that really matters..........not some anecdotes by cap changers.......... ;)
as a matter of principle i refrain from commenting on my own work, i let others make the comments, if they are happy and liked what they heard, then i am happy for them ;D........if they are not, i don't care ;D.......i don't DIY so as to impress others..........i do it to please myself only......i really do not care ......... ;)
perhaps your buddies at diyaudio can help clarify yet another misunderstood electrical concept.
BEFOREi love it!
(http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/jclraven/the_wall_fondo_pink_floyd_high_resolution_desktop_1600x1131_wallpaper.jpg)
AND AFTER
(http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/jclraven/heartdrop1.jpg)
well perhaps i believe, I live in the matrix. Laws of science changes when there are updates regarding the matter,
by those people who are bold enough to try and bend the law.
i do agree with what you said jojod, but when henry ford bellieved that a v8 engine can be made, no one believed him, but it was done, when the wright brothers said man can fly, people laugh at them, saying it cannot be done, when marconi discovered ether, or say signals, he was sent to a mental hospital and every people especially the ones who burned their eyebrows studying said it was impossible. All i was saying is that if we always follow the rules, we will just be ending doing the same thing again again, and i guess it is a lot worst to expect a different result if you keep on doing the same thing. All i was talking about are polyprops and oil caps that i have tried, ive also tried series but i dont advocate it. just like what i said jojod, post something that you have tried, and post your impression,if you were not able to even put a bypass cap on any of your work then perhaps arguing with someone who have tried it is alot worst. Basing all your answers on the book and someones post for me is insignificant. I would rather have you say " i have tried it but i dont like it because. . . . ." at least its more significant than not trying it at all.or just tell me what bypass caps have you tried and lets start again from there. Simple lang naman ang gusto ng TS, makakatulong ba sa psu ang bypass caps or hindi? Pero ang pangit yata kung sasabihin mong hindi kung di mo pa natry. I rest my case. But before anything, i would just like to say that i RESPECT YOU, TONYT, RASCAL, MARCKRENZ. AND I LOVE ALL YOUR WORK.
Has there been any new updates on these Laws? Or is it just wishful thinking?
how could they possibly do that when they cannot even properly understand the Law! how can you bend something that you do not know?
those people gets a bunch of capacitors and resistors and then connect this to that, parallel this, series that and then put that across the signal or the power supply and see what the heck happens. then that bold one posts that and the oohhsss and the aahhhhsss follows.
is that the bold enough thing you are talking about?
change the caps with the same values but with a different brand and read issues about it I can take, but re-invent the wheel without knowing how the wheel works is unacceptable.
I have no personal grunge on anyone, but once the bending starts - it's like I just wasted my years in school. I've had my share of burning eyebrows, missing family occasions and sleepless nights studying, understanding these things and now it will just be on the hands of a bold one and just like that.
I guess what I'm saying is, how can I trust a doctor if that doctor does not even understand the specifications of a scalpel?
(http://www.theez.com/img/blog/20070130_led03.jpg)
i do agree with what you said jojod, but when henry ford bellieved that a v8 engine can be made, no one believed him, but it was done, when the wright brothers said man can fly, people laugh at them, saying it cannot be done, when marconi discovered ether, or say signals, he was sent to a mental hospital and every people especially the ones who burned their eyebrows studying said it was impossible.
All i was saying is that if we always follow the rules, we will just be ending doing the same thing again again, and i guess it is a lot worst to expect a different result if you keep on doing the same thing.
All i was talking about are polyprops and oil caps that i have tried, ive also tried series but i dont advocate it. just like what i said jojod, post something that you have tried, and post your impression,if you were not able to even put a bypass cap on any of your work then perhaps arguing with someone who have tried it is alot worst. Basing all your answers on the book and someones post for me is insignificant. I would rather have you say " i have tried it but i dont like it because. . . . ." at least its more significant than not trying it at all.or just tell me what bypass caps have you tried and lets start again from there.
Simple lang naman ang gusto ng TS, makakatulong ba sa psu ang bypass caps or hindi? Pero ang pangit yata kung sasabihin mong hindi kung di mo pa natry. I rest my case.
But before anything, i would just like to say that i RESPECT YOU, TONYT, RASCAL, MARCKRENZ. AND I LOVE ALL YOUR WORK.
dapat kasi di na lang ako nagpost ng impression ko, kasi di naman ako engineer. Hobbyist lang po. Pasensya na if ever may na offend sa impression ko or sa kahit anong sinabi ko, tao lang po,
(http://www.theez.com/img/blog/20070130_led03.jpg)
if you were not able to even put a bypass cap on any of your work then perhaps arguing with someone who have tried it is alot worst.
simple lang nito di ba? natry mo ba? kung Oo bakit di mo sabihin experience mo? anong narinig mo, kung meron man, kung wala, sabihin mo na wala! naman! simple lang di ba? kaso sa buong thread eh wala ka naman sinabing experience mo. yun ang hinahanap ng isang tangang kagaya ko sa isang gumagawa ng amplifier kagaya mo. paikot ikot tayo. buti pa si TonyT, sinabi nya na natry nya at sinabi nya na di na sya kumportable na gamitin ito ngayon. I respect that statement a lot... at malamang kung naexplain pa nya ng mas malayo layo, eh malamang di na ako muli pang mag ba bypass.
are you sure about your history? I'll leave it at that. It is utterly useless to argue otherwise.
being able to quantify the end result and ending up having it the same over and over again and making sure it can be replicated over and over again is what makes it an exact Science. even when you do new things you still need to do it over and over again to verify your results.
doing it on one t-amp is luck, on two it's a coincidence, on three it's an accident... you need a thousand. then explain all that by using the language of Math.
but then again, I'll leave it at that. It is utterly useless to argue otherwise.
me? of all the people? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
ako ang tinatanong mo kung hindi ko pa natry? naman...
oh well... sige...
ang natry ko pa lang yun within reason...
Respectfully yours too, though I don't speak for the others...
it's a free country, free world, free your mind thing nga diba... it's not about being a hobbyist or not, what's bothering me is for you to advocate the "bending" of the rules when the rules aren't properly understood.
well gentlemen, I've said my mind and it may or may not be understood but so be it.
time, like most things, is finite (based on space-time continuum) and I'm beginning to wonder why I'm spending too much here.... unless you guys have invented a time machine?
goodbye and good luck on your endeavors... oh, there is no spoon
(http://www.theez.com/img/blog/20070130_led03.jpg)I like this better! ;D
simple lang nito di ba? natry mo ba? kung Oo bakit di mo sabihin experience mo? anong narinig mo, kung meron man, kung wala, sabihin mo na wala! naman! simple lang di ba? kaso sa buong thread eh wala ka naman sinabing experience mo. yun ang hinahanap ng isang tangang kagaya ko sa isang gumagawa ng amplifier kagaya mo. paikot ikot tayo. buti pa si TonyT, sinabi nya na natry nya at sinabi nya na di na sya kumportable na gamitin ito ngayon. I respect that statement a lot... at malamang kung naexplain pa nya ng mas malayo layo, eh malamang di na ako muli pang mag ba bypass.
sorry talaga mga braders, kung napainit ko man ang ulo nyo, I'm a nobody in pinoydvd world and im sorry if I offended anyone, Im just posting what I experienced and I guess its not breaking any law, especially sinabi ko at my first post that i dont have technical background and this stuff depends on my taste/preference.
PEACE!!!! ;D
I guess di counted ang experience dito. kasi kailangan pa ng thousands ng experiments para mavalidate, thats why I salute rascal, madami man syang mali, eh di sya natatakot magkamali. fortune favors the brave.
time machine? makapag time travel nga muna!
;D
thanks bro! at least nalaman mo na ang hinahanap ko after ulitin ko ito ng tatlong beses sa thread na to. Sa wakas. Naintindihan na kita. Kailangan palang 3x ko ulitin kapag kasing genius mo ang kausap ko. Sori bro ang baba kasi ng i.q. Ko kaya di mo agad naintindihan. ;)
ay ganun ba? pasensiya ka na hindi ko alam na yun ang hinahanap ng isang kagaya mo... akala ko kasi mas malalim pa dun ang pinaguusapan natin, gusto mo lang pala malaman ang experience ko... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
steady lang naman ako dito ah? sinabi na nga wala, pinipilit niyo meron meron meron. sino paikot ikot?
anyway, since yun experience ni Tony na ang susundin mo (pag naexplain niya ng malayo layo), hindi ko na explain ang experience ko ha, baka makagulo pa sa iyo eh... antayin mo na lang pag naexplain pa niya ng malayo layo... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
thanks bro! at least nalaman mo na ang hinahanap ko after ulitin ko ito ng tatlong beses sa thread na to. Sa wakas. Naintindihan na kita. Kailangan palang 3x ko ulitin kapag kasing genius mo ang kausap ko. Sori bro ang baba kasi ng i.q. Ko kaya di mo agad naintindihan. ;)
brader, move on na, wala ka palang mababaw na experience lahat malalim. Move on na please. Thanks again to rascal and tonyt for sharing your experience. I truly appreciate it.
Si qguy ang may kasalanan nito! Joke lang bro! Hehehe!
Oo nga eh, pasensiya na now ko lang nagets ang intentions mo. Sorry ha ganda kasi ng pagkakalatag mo. Bilangin mo ulit bago ka mag move on baka nagkamali ka? Sabagay may edit button naman. ;Dbro, reply 100, 124 and 130. Please move on. . .
ay ganun ba? pasensiya ka na hindi ko alam na yun ang hinahanap ng isang kagaya mo... akala ko kasi mas malalim pa dun ang pinaguusapan natin, gusto mo lang pala malaman ang experience ko... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
steady lang naman ako dito ah? sinabi na nga wala, pinipilit niyo meron meron meron. sino paikot ikot?
anyway, since yun experience ni Tony na ang susundin mo (pag naexplain niya ng malayo layo), hindi ko na explain ang experience ko ha, baka makagulo pa sa iyo eh... antayin mo na lang pag naexplain pa niya ng malayo layo... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
sharing na lang tayo. eto experience ko, not necessarily bypass caps but somehow related. yung metal screws sa chassis ng pioneer dolby prologic receiver ko pinalitan ko ng copper screws hoping for sound improvement. aba meron nga! share ko lang to walang kokontra. :Pmai try nga.
bro, reply 100, 124 and 130. Please move on. . .
I still respect you and your work bro. Sorry if I have offended you. I wish you much more success and happiness. Goodnight and godbless.
sharing na lang tayo. eto experience ko, not necessarily bypass caps but somehow related. yung metal screws sa chassis ng pioneer dolby prologic receiver ko pinalitan ko ng copper screws hoping for sound improvement. aba meron nga! share ko lang to walang kokontra. :P
(http://www.theez.com/img/blog/20070130_led03.jpg)
Yan ba yun bagong SMPS na ginagawa mo? ;DLED driver with Rifa oil cap for bypass. it's so warm and open! ;D ;D ;D
Si qguy ang may kasalanan nito! Joke lang bro! Hehehe!
sharing na lang tayo. eto experience ko, not necessarily bypass caps but somehow related. yung metal screws sa chassis ng pioneer dolby prologic receiver ko pinalitan ko ng copper screws hoping for sound improvement. aba meron nga! share ko lang to walang kokontra. :P
yung pioneer sx1025 hinid gumamit ng bypass sa main filter caps, pero gumamit ng 3.3k beeders, yung rectifiers nya ang nilagyan ng shunt caps.....
sharing na lang tayo. eto experience ko, not necessarily bypass caps but somehow related. yung metal screws sa chassis ng pioneer dolby prologic receiver ko pinalitan ko ng copper screws hoping for sound improvement. aba meron nga! share ko lang to walang kokontra. :P
Thats correct, No bypass caps on the mail filter caps, Did not notice any bleeder resistors...I guess because I was not looking for it..
Here we go again...
seryosong question ito..
Why is it that on some components, I see copper screws (i am assumung its copper based on color) on sensitive areas, like FM boards etc ?
Innocent until proven guilty ;Dhehehe! Joke lang brader, itanong mo na, at least ngayon experience naman ang usapan. Hehehe!
Ayoko na mag tanong, may isa pa akong tanong kasi I will keep it na lang for myself ..
Thats correct, No bypass caps on the mail filter caps, Did not notice any bleeder resistors...I guess because I was not looking for it..
Master, I would like to ask if the by-pass caps will cause humming sounds too?
if the bypass has very high ESR it is possible, but there are other factors to humming, interconnects is one....
How can an interconnect cause humming ? Shorted ?
How can an interconnect cause humming ? Shorted ?
if the bypass has very high ESR it is possible, but there are other factors to humming, interconnects is one....
The one I used was generic 0.1uf ceramic caps... I put it at my other Subsonic filter circuit to subwoofer.
ceramics are very good at filering emi/rfi and is best used directly in ic power pins....now if leads from the psu to the filter pcb are long(more than 6inches), then ecaps can be used as additional bypass....
sorry to dissapoint you but i am not one of those with golden ears.....to me it is not the ears, but the brain....there is where everything happens, in your brain.....the ear is just a port that converts sounds into electrical signals to be the processed by the brain... ;)..
yes, 200v 2.2ufd cap.....
if you are installing bypass on the filter cap, and then that filer cap will have long leads going to the power amp board, then it is possible that high frequency resonances can result of connections formed by that cap and the leads..........ymmv... ;)
Ok thanks..There you go qguy go go go!