PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Setting Up => Topic started by: Chiekotz on Jul 05, 2013 at 06:30 PM
-
I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.
Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed
For speaker cables, there are 2 types
1. Shielded
2. Unshielded
A lot of people want the unshielded.
Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.
Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.
-
brace yourself for WORD WAR C (cables)....
hehehehe..... Some swear by it, some think its placebo....
;D
-
this was taken up years ago hahahahahaha...pwede pa nga daw maski sampayan ng gamitin mo e hahahahaha...i think it the thread is just there somewhere hidden! LOL
-
My question here is, are there engineers here that believe that cables make a night and day difference?
-
speaker cables......
on my experience yes...
more DB
-
Yes if the mumurahing cable is Guage 30 up (meron b non?? ;D)
and the branded one is Guage 16 down... ;D
In short, wala sa branded o non-branded, nasa thickness ng copper wire... >:D
-
My question here is, are there engineers here that believe that cables make a night and day difference?
depends....if you are a believer then yes, if non-believer then no...
it doesn't really matter what every one thinks or say...
what matters is the one using the cables,
if you are happy with your cable, then i am happy for you...
-
I'm not really a cable believer but there was a time when I was auditioning the Aons on Mly and got curious with the QED revelation speaker cables and I ask if we can try it, so we changed the cable from silver anniversary to revelation no other settings were changed. We tried to play the same track again then my wife who was playing with her tablet suddenly said "Uy maganda yan anung speaker gamit?" I also notice the big change in the sound before my wife reacted.
Rule of the thumb: try it but if you can't hear any difference then don't buy it.
One thing I like about branded cables is their build quality. There is no need to buy an expensive cable if you can't hear the difference and you can also get a good quality cable for less the price.
Some people also buy expensive cables just to bling their setup. Cheers!
-
The thing is you don't need to buy a 1000 dollar speaker cable if your speakers are worth a 1000 dollar too...right ::) ? Just save 5 to 10 percent budget for your speaker cable based on your speaker budget.
Don't go crazy with cables, be practical..at the end of the day, its your money.
If you go with science, lots of people will say cables are cables... ;D...just use monoprice cables 14 or 12 awg pure copper and your done... >:D
If you want boutique cables, better buy a second hand if available...
-
for me, yes, cables/ic's makes differences, branded or not.
mix and match lang yan, even if you have the most expensive and branded cables and it doesn't match your set up, useless....opinion ko lang po yan at experience na din....
-
Yes try mo bro :) pero nakakakulam yan he he he
-
I am a big believer of cables. Yes they do make a difference but that difference may or may not be an improvement depending on your system or the sound that you are looking for.
Just today, i was listening to a shop here with a set-up costing maybe more than half a million peso. My officemate was auditioning an Acrolink 6N and 7N model digital cable. Both of the design is the same and the only difference was the purity of the cable. We don't need to strain listening and the 7N was the clear winner.
With this experience, just with that one cable (the 6N model), it had brought down the performance of that expensive set-up.
My advice, always have an open mind. There are a lot of things that is very hard to explain in audio, but from there, it could make a simple system sound like a mega buck system.
-
There are several extensive discussions about speaker wires in the past. Here's two of them:
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,54618.0.html (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,54618.0.html)
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,39268.0.html (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,39268.0.html)
-
Oh boy...
-
sana hindi na maulit...
as long as no one tells another, "you should buy this cable"
then we are okey....
i consider the speakers still the weakest link in any system,
it has the most potential to be deal maker of breaker...
-
Yes, cables make a difference. it is more noticable if revealing yung speakers mo. (granted na maganda ang source ng music mo ha) i don't believe on it before but mula nung nasubukan ko, never looked back. actually sa headphones ko siya naconfirm na they do make a difference. and yun nga, since revealing sa details yung headphone ko, narinig ko agad difference. different types of cables have their own characteristics thus matching plays a big role if it will improve the sound or not. (we all know naman na mahalaga talaga ang matching ng gears)
-
Thanks for the information guys. I appreciate it.
-
I'm not really a cable believer but there was a time when I was auditioning the Aons on Mly and got curious with the QED revelation speaker cables and I ask if we can try it, so we changed the cable from silver anniversary to revelation no other settings were changed. We tried to play the same track again then my wife who was playing with her tablet suddenly said "Uy maganda yan anung speaker gamit?" I also notice the big change in the sound before my wife reacted.
Rule of the thumb: try it but if you can't hear any difference then don't buy it.
One thing I like about branded cables is their build quality. There is no need to buy an expensive cable if you can't hear the difference and you can also get a good quality cable for less the price.
Some people also buy expensive cables just to bling their setup. Cheers!
Good call, i think i need to bring a friend with me. Sometimes kasi its just placebo.
-
if you'll test cables, be sure to use your own test tracks. mas kabisado mo na kasi yung song and already know what specific parts of the song ang maiiba if ever may difference.
-
if you'll test cables, be sure to use your own test tracks. mas kabisado mo na kasi yung song and already know what specific parts of the song ang maiiba if ever may difference.
And make sure blind A/B test para walang placebo effect.
Here's a short summary from the previous thread re cables.
If you cannot hear the difference, then you are lucky because di ka na kailangan magpalit constantly ng cables.
If the difference is audible for you, happy hunting na lang! :D
-
Monster and Stinger... this is like wearing a sign saying "shoot me"... ;D
My question here is, are there engineers here that believe that cables make a night and day difference?
I bet you are assuming that as an engineer, that person is bound by his/her knowledge of the science behind the flow of electrons and thus will offer a more scientific explanation rather than a subjective one.
I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.
Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed
For speaker cables, there are 2 types
1. Shielded
2. Unshielded
A lot of people want the unshielded.
Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.
Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.
Ok let's answer the obvious. If you are indeed brushing on your audio literature then you should already know the reason why people (1) choose unshielded for their speaker wires and (2) use shielded wires for their RCA interconnects. Otherwise, you are not doing your home work so here it is.
Speaker wires don't need to be shielded. Why? Because the amount of voltage and the degree of current is so huge that minute noise signals cannot "contaminate" it. Signal to noise ratio is only inherent to what the original signal already have so it is just a waste of money to use shielded speaker wires.
RCA interconnects needs to be shielded as a way of protecting the integrity of the small, millivolt level signals that pass through. Make no mistake of thinking though that unshielded RCA interconnects can not be used, they can.
Now here's the kicker (remember fattyacid's post for engineers). Shielding is commonly done by braiding multiple strands of copper or silver wires to cover the inner conductor of the wire and "shield" it from the outside, much like those LPG hoses. To make the shielding effective, this braided wires are connected to ground to shunt any common mode noise via ground. Unfortunately, there is a phenomenon known as "skin effect" where electrons prefer to travel on the outside or "skin" of the conductor, this phenomena plus the multiple strands used in braiding the shield promotes a capacitive effect in the wire. The longer the wire, the higher the capacitance. You will see this in wire specifications as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). This capacitance now will interact with your amp/preamp input section and form what is called a 1st order low pass filter where you lose a great range of frequencies in the higher region of the frequency spectrum.
There now, I hope that helps you in further understanding the intricacies of this hobby. :)
-
Monster and Stinger... this is like wearing a sign saying "shoot me"... ;D
I bet you are assuming that as an engineer, that person is bound by his/her knowledge of the science behind the flow of electrons and thus will offer a more scientific explanation rather than a subjective one.
Ok let's answer the obvious. If you are indeed brushing on your audio literature then you should already know the reason why people (1) choose unshielded for their speaker wires and (2) use shielded wires for their RCA interconnects. Otherwise, you are not doing your home work so here it is.
Speaker wires don't need to be shielded. Why? Because the amount of voltage and the degree of current is so huge that minute noise signals cannot "contaminate" it. Signal to noise ratio is only inherent to what the original signal already have so it is just a waste of money to use shielded speaker wires.
RCA interconnects needs to be shielded as a way of protecting the integrity of the small, millivolt level signals that pass through. Make no mistake of thinking though that unshielded RCA interconnects can not be used, they can.
Now here's the kicker (remember fattyacid's post for engineers). Shielding is commonly done by braiding multiple strands of copper or silver wires to cover the inner conductor of the wire and "shield" it from the outside, much like those LPG hoses. To make the shielding effective, this braided wires are connected to ground to shunt any common mode noise via ground. Unfortunately, there is a phenomenon known as "skin effect" where electrons prefer to travel on the outside or "skin" of the conductor, this phenomena plus the multiple strands used in braiding the shield promotes a capacitive effect in the wire. The longer the wire, the higher the capacitance. You will see this in wire specifications as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). This capacitance now will interact with your amp/preamp input section and form what is called a 1st order low pass filter where you lose a great range of frequencies in the higher region of the frequency spectrum.
There now, I hope that helps you in further understanding the intricacies of this hobby. :)
Thank you so much Jojo.
This is the link where i found it
http://www.mediacollege.com/forum/showthread.php?1388-Speaker-Wire-Shielded-Versus-Unshielded
and based on whats written there, i think they are talking about mobile sound systems because they mentioned XLR cables which i know they use for concerts and stuff.
-
i have used shielded wires on my speakers....no big deal there....
cables are just copper and plastic, what you make of it is entirely up to you....
as long as you hook them up correctly, then no problemo...
cables really make a difference....in the megahertz region, where their characteristic impedance shows....
for audio, it is entirely up to you to enjoy.....
as a heads up, make sure your speaker cables are tight in the binding posts...i had an amp that i almost replaced the output transformer, when all the while the problem was just a loose fitting speaker cable.... >:D
-
There are several extensive discussions about speaker wires in the past. Here's two of them:
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,54618.0.html (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,54618.0.html)
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,39268.0.html (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,39268.0.html)
ang ganda ng reply ni av_phile1
As hobbyists, we should learn to distinguish between facts and personal opinions. Between serious scienctific truths and laughable hearsay. If you are influenced on the say so of friends and bogus advertising materials that claim figures in what are called "pseudo-science,' that's your call. Manufacturers of exotic expensive cables do cite terms like "skin effect," "strand jumping," "dielectric absorption effects," "transmission line effect," and even the very mundane capacitance, inductance and resistance figures in their wares to impress even techno geeks. In many ways, most of these effects have a bearing on cable design, like those used in industrial applications that carry mega and gigahertz frequencies. But NOTHING AUDIBLE WHATSOVER when applied to frequencies in the audio spectrum that matters to human beings.
Human hearing already has difficulty discerning a 1 db difference for PURE tone signals. How much more for 0.1db differences above 16khz? That's often the region where some of the effects of high inductance and capacitance in cables can be attained. And when MASKED by other frequencies in a complex musical signal, you begin to wonder if audible differences can be correctly identified. While it is true that differenet cable qualities can affect the carriage of frequencies, so far, no bias-controlled Double Blind Testing has ever affirmed to any statistical degree of confidence and accuracy that audible differences exists between cables to justify spending 100 times on exotic cables.
There is great irony here. People who finally can afford a Bryston or a Theta have often achieved some social status in life to afford these gears. They're often in their 30s and 40s - right about that time when their ears can't hear above 17khz. I must say these people are often the ones who can afford to buy expensives cables and claim to hear differences. Ironically, they really can't hear anything above 17khz where the effects of different cables should be more manifest. ;D So there's probably some wisdom to the argument that the perceived differences are really more psychological than anything. Knowledge about the price and brand can and do influence human perceptions. Obviously, the power of suggestion works on the side of exotic cable manufacturers so they can laugh all the way to the bank at our expense. ;D Just my thoughts.
-
pachex, ok na ang monoprice. meron ako extra monoprice speaker cables bigyan nalang kita pero sa IC pagawa ka nalang. ako im using VDH C5.
-
pachex, ok na ang monoprice. meron ako extra monoprice speaker cables bigyan nalang kita pero sa IC pagawa ka nalang. ako im using VDH C5.
isa sa mga mababait na member ng pdvd...... :) :) :)
-
I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.
Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed
For speaker cables, there are 2 types
1. Shielded
2. Unshielded
A lot of people want the unshielded.
Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.
Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.
Three words:
Double Blind Test
-
If we will test the theory na different cables have different effects sa music, i'm willing to provide the materials for testing but it would be for headphones. Mas madali gawing controlled environment since mas konti ang gears to connect. Its about the cable naman and its relation to sound di ba?
-
isa sa mga mababait na member ng pdvd...... :) :) :)
naku brader hindi naman tropa ko kasi ito TS and ako n si carlo nambuyo sa kanya kaya support nalang. Ikaw parin ang mabait still enjoying yon pasalubong mo sakin. Hopefully soon makapag upgrade ulit matagal tagal na din di gumagalaw ang setup ko eh.
-
naku brader hindi naman tropa ko kasi ito TS and ako n si carlo nambuyo sa kanya kaya support nalang. Ikaw parin ang mabait still enjoying yon pasalubong mo sakin. Hopefully soon makapag upgrade ulit matagal tagal na din di gumagalaw ang setup ko eh.
patay tayo dyan....hehehe...baka maniwala sila sa pasalubong ko kunwari sa iyo...hahaha.....
-
Three words:
Double Blind Test
dont forget the spl meter :)
dapat same db kasi malaki possibility na lumakas or
humina ang signal since nagpalit ka ng kebol :)
-
There are those who dispense this things as if they don't matter... maybe it does or it does not. Try and see/hear for yourself, sometimes it's a little crazy listening to these people. ;D
-
in my experience.. i won 1st place twice in car audio sound quality, i use wireworld silver eclipse ic and tellurium black speaker cable from my neighbor ferdie ludo, almost all of the competitor used qed cables... and copied my set up like denon r1 cd player , vifa and scanspeak with custon xover etc... except for the wires i used... they couldnt just get the quality sound i have.. maybe, just because of the wires i use.. judges came from singapore, hk, manila,
-
in my experience.. i won 1st place twice in car audio sound quality, i use wireworld silver eclipse ic and tellurium black speaker cable from my neighbor ferdie ludo, almost all of the competitor used qed cables... and copied my set up like denon r1 cd player , vifa and scanspeak with custon xover etc... except for the wires i used... they couldnt just get the quality sound i have.. maybe, just because of the wires i use.. judges came from singapore, hk, manila,
bro,bigats pala hobby mo.....hehehehe...hope to hear your review once you tapped the cables to your car....
-
For me its a yes! (sounds familiar ba ;D). B4 nun mga mid 2000 un Rotel pre-pro rc1070 and rb1080 stereo set-up im using monster cable thx ultra pati sa Rotel pre-pro rsp1066 and rmb1075 w/ monster cable thx ultra din. Me nag-offer dito sa pinoydvd (Sir Ford) home demo ng mga AudioQuest cables, 1st time ive encounter RCA w/ battery pack (buti not sold separately hehe!) try ko muna is un cheapest 72v DBS ic is columbia (12k or 15k ata) parang naiba sound signature ni rotel na familiar ko, nawala bloatness ng bass (bass is tame ata ang term), hinde na crowded (parang nasala or filtered mga frequency), na-try ko pati sa sony mini compo (FH-215R) umabot ko full volume ng hinde na-distort ang sounds. The next day pina-check ko sa expert sa electronics coz mystery ang battery pack baka me mga resistor,capacitors o pyesa na nag-influence sa sound but found nothing talagang battery lang. Hinde ko napansin pati Colorado 72v DBS binili ko na din nakaka-adik or nakaka-spoiled sa tenga ang DBS no turning back. Pag binalik ko sa monster cable or un nabibili sa ace hardware na rca prang nasa tunog DTS HD bumalik ka sa Dolby ordinary. IMO. Sa experience ko lang po ito. Madami din siguro mag-agree sa naka-try ng me battery pack na IC, speaker wire, power chord, ^-^
-
For me there is a difference. But it doesn't necessarily mean its an improvement. I can name some expensive ICs and speaker cables where I found the generic ones to sound better.
-
For me there is a difference. But it doesn't necessarily mean its an improvement. I can name some expensive ICs and speaker cables where I found the generic ones to sound better.
Correct. hindi porke mahal eh bagay sa system mo. Parang damit.
-
For me there is a difference. But it doesn't necessarily mean its an improvement. I can name some expensive ICs and speaker cables where I found the generic ones to sound better.
Blind test na yan bulagin kita.. hhaha
-
Blind test na yan bulagin kita.. hhaha
A Real Man has branded cables O0
-
Correct. hindi porke mahal eh bagay sa system mo. Parang damit.
+1 master....minsan ung mumurs na kable mgmatch swak sa panlasa. kaya ako, kahit mumurahin, tinatago ko sa cabinet (imbes na damit nakasampay, mga kable :D :D :D :D) , baka sakali may maglimos ng gamit, pwede kong ihanap ng partner...
-
A Real Man looks at cables and finds nothing but copper and plastics.... >:D ;D
-
A Real Man looks at cables and finds nothing but copper and plastics.... >:D ;D
Like ko to Master tony. hehe
-
Next time dala ako ng cable if i have the chance na mag-ikot sa mga ka grupo natin dito. :)
-
Like ko to Master tony. hehe
A Real Man knows what copper and plastics look like.... >:D ;)
-
A Real Man knows what copper and plastics look like.... >:D ;)
;D ;D ;D minsan rubberize plastic din ang balot ;) and teflon din pala ;D
-
A Real Man has branded cables O0
So di ako real man kasi ala ako branded cable. ??? ???
-
Di ba REAL SIS ka? >:D >:D >:D
-
Di ba REAL SIS ka? >:D >:D >:D
Ay ou nga pala SIS ako kaya di talaga Real Man.. ;D ;D
-
Yup, and depends also sa matching ng system..some mura some mahal...it is necessary to test cables first before buying...allot of stores who sells cables lend their service unit...At least for ten days...
In my experience usually the ones that are super high end can make allot of difference...Kung baga no brainer audition... ;)
-
So di ako real man kasi ala ako branded cable. ??? ???
meron yan bro, di pwedeng wala... ;) >:D
-
Ay ou nga pala SIS ako kaya di talaga Real Man.. ;D ;D
pati ba naman dito sis na rin ang tawagan? kala ko sa elab lang yan.... :D :D :D
-
pati ba naman dito sis na rin ang tawagan? kala ko sa elab lang yan.... :D :D :D
Hahah ganun talag kami mga sister tawagan. >:D >:D
-
I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.
Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed
For speaker cables, there are 2 types
1. Shielded
2. Unshielded
A lot of people want the unshielded.
Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.
Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.
Based on my experience Yes, but everything affects system matching. Better hear it in your system and decide. We all have different experiences when it comes to cables. Listen......listen....listen
-
Its not the brand that matters per se. What really makes the difference is the quality of the cables themselves regardless of price. Dinky cables will most likely interfere with the performance of the audio/video gear. It also helps that good quality cables tend to last longer. I've had P25 low quality AV cables with insulation that got brittle, cracked and peeled off after a few years which might have caused a short had I not discovered and replaced them.
Case in point, I bought a cheap stereo RCA cable for my sub before which caused loud humming and popping noises. I replaced that with a better quality but still reasonably priced cable and the popping and humming easily went away. Another case was when I used a USB cable I bought from "da-king" which not only made the sound of my USB-powered DAC sound harsh, its effect was reflected in the loop-back measurements I did while calibrating my DAC for RTA which resulted into a slight "sawtooth" frequency response curve. Turns out the power wires inside the cable were not soldered well. Replaced that with a better USB cable and the FR curve smoothed out. That said, I was glad I did not have replace my sub and DAC finding out the cables were the culprits in causing unsatisfactory performance all along.
The way I see it, no, good cables will not make your AV system look or sound better. Rather, what they're supposed to do is to avoid possible deterioration of the video/audio quality and allow the components to perform as they should: within factory spec. Good quality cables need not be expensive exotics (where diminishing returns and psycho-acoustics usually apply) but reasonably affordable IMO.
One more thing, in my experience, the quality of interconnect cables seem to matter more than speaker wire. I've been using low-cost generic speaker wire wherein the unstripped copper wire actually oxidized green inside the insulation ever since I got started in this hobby and I haven't had any reason to replace them since they have not interfered in anyway with the sound quality of my speakers.
-
for signal interconnects i use "SWAN" brand coax cable available from deeco, i buy rca plugs from www.goodcomponents.com...
-
question lang.
why are boutique cables requires a break-in period in order to hear its full capability? di ba you paid a premium and the manufacturer should take care of doing that and not let the consumer do their unfinished job. para kasing bumili ka ng alak at sasabihin ng seller na inumin mo yan after 5 years para matikman ang totoong lasa :)
ano din ang mangyari sa break in, na exercise ba ang metal particles ng wire? or nasasanayan lang ang tenga ng listener?
-
Mahirap kasi i-accelerate ang corrosion.
-
question lang.
why are boutique cables requires a break-in period in order to hear its full capability? di ba you paid a premium and the manufacturer should take care of doing that and not let the consumer do their unfinished job. para kasing bumili ka ng alak at sasabihin ng seller na inumin mo yan after 5 years para matikman ang totoong lasa :)
ano din ang mangyari sa break in, na exercise ba ang metal particles ng wire? or nasasanayan lang ang tenga ng listener?
para hindi mo isauli sa tindahan na binilhan mo kung sakaling hindi mo magustuhan.....pagtagal tagal, masasanay na rin ang tenga mo...ayun break in na ang cable mo..... ;) >:D
-
...or that he he he.
-
para hindi mo isauli sa tindahan na binilhan mo kung sakaling hindi mo magustuhan.....pagtagal tagal, masasanay na rin ang tenga mo...ayun break in na ang cable mo..... ;) >:D
or na break-in na tenga mo doon sa tunog ng cable :) :) :) :) >:D
-
question lang.
why are boutique cables requires a break-in period in order to hear its full capability? di ba you paid a premium and the manufacturer should take care of doing that and not let the consumer do their unfinished job. para kasing bumili ka ng alak at sasabihin ng seller na inumin mo yan after 5 years para matikman ang totoong lasa :)
ano din ang mangyari sa break in, na exercise ba ang metal particles ng wire? or nasasanayan lang ang tenga ng listener?
Because they want to make lots of money from poor customers who buy them... ;D
-
para hindi mo isauli sa tindahan na binilhan mo kung sakaling hindi mo magustuhan.....pagtagal tagal, masasanay na rin ang tenga mo...ayun break in na ang cable mo..... ;) >:D
Like ko yan!
:D
On a serious note, would you buy a bnew car that's already broken in?
-
sino me sabi na hindi pa broken in? yung car engine me sariling break in sa casa, para malaman kung talagang up to specs...
things mechanical needs a break in.....that's a given, no debating this...:D
-
Eh bakit meron 1000km check up kung pwede naman diretcho sa 5000km check?
-
things mechanical are subject to wear and tear.....more than electrical things...
car manufacturers want to make sure their products perform as they promised....
-
Burning in is not necessarily making things better. It's just accounting for a possible change in characteristics. Eventually a component may reach a state where there is no perceivable change. That's what some people say is broken in.
-
Eh bakit meron 1000km check up kung pwede naman diretcho sa 5000km check?
Preventive maintenance, to check for possible damage, leaks, loose connections etc.
-
Preventive maintenance, to check for possible damage, leaks, loose connections etc.
So why do they need to change the oil?
-
So why do they need to change the oil?
They change the oil at 5K, not at 1K.
-
We might be talking of different brands. I use to work for Toyota and Honda and both brands change oil at 1000kms.
So I gurss depending on brand, some actually do break the vehicles in before delivery.... Though not all.
-
We might be talking of different brands. I use to work for Toyota and Honda and both brands change oil at 1000kms.
OT: Maybe that's true for older cars. My Honda booklet says check and replace if necessary for the first 1K.
-
I watch the Mercedes SL something (the one with the gull wing) being built on an episode of Discovery channel. The engine even as a badge of the person who assembled it.
The only time the engine was started was when the car rolled out of the assembly area. Apparently no tests or so called factory break-in was done.
Break-in is done so that the parts grinding each other "fit" smoothly with each other, plus there is a bracket on how fast you can go to start the engine slow. The oil needs to be changed at 1K so that the metal residue on the oil are removed and then pwede na hataw. ;D
-
OT: Maybe that's true for older cars. My Honda booklet says check and replace if necessary for the first 1K.
Ot na talaga tayo. Hehehe.
I know this for a fact that engines of honda and toyota are ran for several hours only and are only partially broken in. You do have to break it in with load. With the number of vehicles these manufacturer produce, they cannot break them in properly.
I started as a mechanic sa toyota and can tell you, they change oil kasi may metal shavings from the initial wear of the moving parts.
As a service advisor, we had countless of seminars from the plant to know the technical aspects of vehicles. And as a service supervisor, we were taught about warranty assessment.
I cannot say for certain about the new vehicles since I have been out of the industry, but knowing the number of units. I still believe it to be the same.
-
Ot na talaga tayo. Hehehe.
I know this for a fact that engines of honda and toyota are ran for several hours only and are only partially broken in. You do have to break it in with load. With the number of vehicles these manufacturer produce, they cannot break them in properly.
I started as a mechanic sa toyota and can tell you, they change oil kasi may metal shavings from the initial wear of the moving parts.
As a service advisor, we had countless of seminars from the plant to know the technical aspects of vehicles. And as a service supervisor, we were taught about warranty assessment.
I cannot say for certain about the new vehicles since I have been out of the industry, but knowing the number of units. I still believe it to be the same.
I so do believe in engine break ins. And I'd love to have my oil changed at 1K (because it's free). But maybe the first running hours in the factory is enough to get everything settled down. Makes sense to me.
-
Bakit puro kotse na topic?
Basta ako bibili ako ng chord signature cable...period.... ;D ;D ;D
-
before i dont believe that speaker cables have their own characteristics.....afterall they are all the same strands of copper binded together.... tapos to hear two diff cable side by side, i switch my preamp to mono and used two diff cables on left and right channel( i dont know if this test if proper for AB testing, sinubukan ko lang)......may difference nga. i dont know the science of it why it gives diff results, so ang bottom line for me is to get the cables na swak sa taste ko and dont buy something just because it looks good......
-
Research...then mix n match and depends sa budget....sakit sa bulsa ng audio hobby no?
-
....sakit sa bulsa ng audio hobby no?
its not just pain in the pocket boss jhams........it will definitely bleed you to death(lalo na pag sinamahan mo ng analog) ;D ;D ;D
-
its not just pain in the pocket boss jhams........it will definitely bleed you to death(lalo na pag sinamahan mo ng analog) ;D ;D ;D
Eto na nga at bumigay na ako sa chord anthem 2 cables ni defcon :o
-
A good option is to have friends willing to swap wires for testing. At least you need not spend until you are satisfied with the result....
-
They do make a difference...but not night and day. Beg, borrow or steal before you buy :)
-
A good option is to have friends willing to swap wires for testing. At least you need not spend until you are satisfied with the result....
Not 4000 miles away... ;D ;D
-
Wala ba blind test ng cables with spl meter?
Kasi malamang pag maganda ang cable/wire chances are lalakas ang tunog ng speaker.
Dapat pantayin muna spl tska pakinggan.
-
i'm just wondering kung yung mga nagsasabi ba na walang difference using different cables, nasubukan na ba talaga nila?
-
i'm just wondering kung yung mga nagsasabi ba na walang difference using different cables, nasubukan na ba talaga nila?
yes, but not with proper testing or test environment.
-
i'm just wondering kung yung mga nagsasabi ba na walang difference using different cables, nasubukan na ba talaga nila?
you don't have to go to jail to know what it is like there...
you can not have an opinion if only based on one or two cable, try all or none at all...
i have tired coax, lamp cords, zip cords, royal cords, cat 5, sure there are differences,
so what? >:D
sorry i do not listen to amplifiers and cables, i listen to speakers exclusively..... >:D
-
i'm just wondering kung yung mga nagsasabi ba na walang difference using different cables, nasubukan na ba talaga nila?
If properties like resistance, capacitance and inductance differ from cable to cable then there'll be differences for sure, the only questions to ask are whether the differences are audible, and should the differences in properties be there at all.
-
if believing in cables is due to the fact that you can hear a difference...
then incorporating a tone control instead surely will make a difference, no debating this fact...
-
with the analogue connections, there should be some difference in SQ or PQ - this would probably be evident on PQ if you're still using those RCA cables for video, but in my experience, very hard to discern on SQ ... i haven't tried the most expensive cables (yung pwede ka na bumili ng second hand na kotse), but i'm using relatively expensive interconnects and speaker wires on my setup, but really could not discern any difference on SQ
with digital there should be no difference on PQ and SQ (e.g. optical cable or HDMI) ... it's either the cable doesn't work or working
but the big difference with more expensive cables is the reliability and durability of the cables - doesn't corrode and hardly any lose connections over time of use ... plus the pogi factor, especially if you are showcasing your system
anyway this is just my opinion and base on my experience on the cables i used ... and for reference, i am using Monster interconnects and HDMI cable, and Ixus fiber optic cable, for speaker wires i'm using the wires that are roughly PhP500 per meter - wala talaga ako marinig na difference doon sa ordinary cables, but i'm happy with those cables, yung mga ordinary kasi mabilis mag-corrode damay pa yung mga kinakabitan na ports sa receiver/amp at mga audio/video sources
-
if believing in cables is due to the fact that you can hear a difference...
then incorporating a tone control instead surely will make a difference, no debating this fact...
thing is, people who are able to hear differences in cables (and/or those who refer to themselves as audio purists) tend to be the ones who frown upon the use of any sort of tone control manipulation (be it via the tone knob, or eq, or dsp, etc.)
-
thing is, people who are able to hear differences in cables (and/or those who refer to themselves as audio purists) tend to be the ones who frown upon the use of any sort of tone control manipulation (be it via the tone knob, or eq, or dsp, etc.)
kaya nga eh, sa cable nila ibinabaling ang kawalan nila ng tone control....
kaya ayun, walang katapusang pag papalit palit ng cable...
kung alam lang nila kung paano tinimpla ng mga recording engineers yung
plaka or cd......:D
kahit pa sabihin na direct to disk yung plaka,
gumagamit ng equalization yan,
another name for tone control,
kasi imposible na walang gagamitin na tone control....
i remember about 30 years or more ago,
me nagpagawa sa akin ng phono preamp na solid state,
yung nagpagawa, merong 8 track recording shop,
from vinyls to tape...
so minsan ipapakalikot yung equalisation para makuha nya
ang tunog na gusto nya, pwede naman yon... ;)
-
^ IMO, a self-respecting audiophile would take the time to understand the processes involved in sound/music reproduction, from the original time sound waves leave the performer's mouth/instrument, until the time they reach the listener's ears during playback.
with a good understanding of the processes involved, one should be able to discern what is and what's not essential in a proper audio playback system.
-
kaya nga eh, sa cable nila ibinabaling ang kawalan nila ng tone control....
kaya ayun, walang katapusang pag papalit palit ng cable...
kung alam lang nila kung paano tinimpla ng mga recording engineers yung
plaka or cd......:D
kahit pa sabihin na direct to disk yung plaka,
gumagamit ng equalization yan,
another name for tone control,
kasi imposible na walang gagamitin na tone control....
i remember about 30 years or more ago,
me nagpagawa sa akin ng phono preamp na solid state,
yung nagpagawa, merong 8 track recording shop,
from vinyls to tape...
so minsan ipapakalikot yung equalisation para makuha nya
ang tunog na gusto nya, pwede naman yon... ;)
;D
Gusto ko pa rin talaga ng OLD SKUL equalizers, laki ng nagagawang difference... ;)
Kahit crappy ang amp at source mo (not to mention CABLES), laki ng nagagawa pag may multi-band equalizer ka.
-
if believing in cables is due to the fact that you can hear a difference...
then incorporating a tone control instead surely will make a difference, no debating this fact...
thing is, people who are able to hear differences in cables (and/or those who refer to themselves as audio purists) tend to be the ones who frown upon the use of any sort of tone control manipulation (be it via the tone knob, or eq, or dsp, etc.)
Some people avoid using analog tone controls and EQ primarily because it adds coloration sa sound, and more often very significant even when the analog tone controls and EQ are set to zero (unless there's a bypass). Probably because additional link sa signal chain ang circuit ng tone control and/or EQ.
-
Some people avoid using analog tone controls and EQ primarily because it adds coloration sa sound, and more often very significant even when the analog tone controls and EQ are set to zero (unless there's a bypass). Probably because additional link sa signal chain ang circuit ng tone control and/or EQ.
the moment the singer's voice hit the diaphragm of the mike in a recording studio,
coloration has already started....
a tone control can have a potential to reverse that...the RIAA playback is a tone control...
it all boils down to preference or nakasanayan na...
-
the moment the singer's voice hit the diaphragm of the mike in a recording studio,
coloration has already started....
a tone control can have a potential to reverse that...the RIAA playback is a tone control...
it all boils down to preference or nakasanayan na...
But in using tone control, you would have to use it everytime for every song/album to reverse the coloration done then. Bawat kanta/album kelangan timplahin to get the sound you want.
Also do note that speakers, amps, cables, sources, records all have their own unique traits/character/signature sound. System matching/synergy ang kelangan kaya yung iba pumipili din ng babagay na cable for their system.
-
But in using tone control, you would have to use it everytime for every song/album to reverse the coloration done then. Bawat kanta/album kelangan timplahin to get the sound you want.
does this mean that when you have a perfectly-matched cable in your system, wala ng timplahin and it will adjust to the different coloration introduced in each and every song?
nagtatanong lang po, peace :)
-
if your belief system tells you that you should use branded cables, then by all means do it...:D
it is your happiness that is at stake and that is all that matters....
we are just having a discussion here, and that be aware that other points of view exist...:D
there are far too many variables involved and cables are just one of them...
i think that your speakers still stand to be the weakest link.... ;)
-
But in using tone control, you would have to use it everytime for every song/album to reverse the coloration done then. Bawat kanta/album kelangan timplahin to get the sound you want.
Does this mean there's also a specific cable for a specific song?
-
Does this mean there's also a specific cable for a specific song?
oh i heard stories about that one too.... ;)
-
does this mean that when you have a perfectly-matched cable in your system, wala ng timplahin and it will adjust to the different coloration introduced in each and every song?
nagtatanong lang po, peace :)
Mine doesn't have tone controls. If most of the songs sounds the way I like on my system (and fewer doesn't), then it is okay for me than using tone controls. I just simply want to enjoy and listen to the music with convenience and less hassles, imho.
-
;D
Gusto ko pa rin talaga ng OLD SKUL equalizers, laki ng nagagawang difference... ;)
Kahit crappy ang amp at source mo (not to mention CABLES), laki ng nagagawa pag may multi-band equalizer ka.
i was privileged to have been invited to an audiophile's setup somewhere in Welcome rotonda, QC...
he as a speaker system composed of about 32 speakers forming a wall of sound,
several ML 25's Crown Studio reference amps and multi band electronics crossovers,
bago magpatugtog, itinotono muna yung system using pink noise generators and RTA's
in other words, me tone control....
boy pag narinig mo yung system nya, baka itakwil mo yung sa iyo....:D
-
Does this mean there's also a specific cable for a specific song?
Eto di ko na alam ;)
-
An artist before going to the recording studio should have a "vision" of how her/his album should sound, it's one of the first few steps in the creative process, part of the process are the tweaks involved in the recording. In short,everything done in the recording studio is a conscious effort to turn the artist's vision into reality. I think that's the reason why audiophiles doesn't want to use tone controls, to hear it as close to how it was recorded as possible.
-
Cable debate is endless, its like politics and always boils down to budget and what kind of system you have.
Many people are saying that your cable must be transparent, should not add any coloration, but if the system is too analytical other people dont like it and they want to mix a cable which adds coloration(sure there is) and for them that is musical. Cable company are producing different type of cables to suit a system and to have different flavor and prices to suit your budget. Parang vapers lang yan, kanya kanyang juice >:D
Kung ang speaker mo naman is worth a value, bigyan mo nman sya ng justice at wag gamitan ng lamp cord ;D...For me, cable is part of the system and you should respect it same as speakers and amps.
My 2 cents... ^-^
-
An artist before going to the recording studio should have a "vision" of how her/his album should sound, it's one of the first few steps in the creative process, part of the process are the tweaks involved in the recording. In short,everything done in the recording studio is a conscious effort to turn the artist's vision into reality. I think that's the reason why audiophiles doesn't want to use tone controls, to hear it as close to how it was recorded as possible.
yes, this is true, that is why the term HI-Fidelity.....
-
Kung ang speaker mo naman is worth a value, bigyan mo nman sya ng justice at wag gamitan ng lamp cord ;D...For me, cable is part of the system and you should respect it same as speakers and amps.
My 2 cents... ^-^
oo naman, kung nakabile ka ng 500k na speaker, hindi ka makakabile ng 15k na cable?
kahit naman ako hindi ko gagamitan ng mumurahing cable yan, me pangbile ako eh.... ;)
pero kung paga 5k yung speaker mo at gagamitan mo ng 15k na cable, aba eh wag naman.... >:D
-
if your belief system tells you that you should use branded cables, then by all means do it...:D
it is your happiness that is at stake and that is all that matters....
we are just having a discussion here, and that be aware that other points of view exist...:D
there are far too many variables involved and cables are just one of them...
i think that your speakers still stand to be the weakest link.... ;)
the issue of using branded cables has already been discussed in the previous posts. As a metter of fact, it was suggested that the title be changed to Do Different Types And/Or Brand of Cables Really Make a Difference. ;D
And i agree with you that cables are just one of the many variables. ;)
-
we are just having a discussion here, and that be aware that other points of view exist...:D
just giving my inputs/pov to the discussion as well. ;D
-
pero kung paga 5k yung speaker mo at gagamitan mo ng 15k na cable, aba eh wag naman.... >:D
;D korek ka jan pare koy..esep esep pag may time.. ^-^..at least dapat ang consideration sa cable ay performance to match system, looks, resale value, and top of all price ;)
Isa pa pala, WAF.. >:D
-
i was privileged to have been invited to an audiophile's setup somewhere in Welcome rotonda, QC...
he as a speaker system composed of about 32 speakers forming a wall of sound,
several ML 25's Crown Studio reference amps and multi band electronics crossovers,
bago magpatugtog, itinotono muna yung system using pink noise generators and RTA's
in other words, me tone control....
boy pag narinig mo yung system nya, baka itakwil mo yung sa iyo....:D
I've been there and heard his primary set-up. hindi yun sandamalmal na monoblock ML amps. ;D
Yun 3 pairs SET KT88 monoblocks ata yun na-audition ko. 2 sets of preamps. Then dumaan muna sa active xover before pumunta sa power amp. Then after amplification, dumaan ulit sa built-in passive xover ng LS speakers niya. And yes, it goes very loud talaga. And even at loud volumes, walang clipping. Truly a system to admire. But unfortunately, hindi yun ang preference ko. ;) Now i know your preference. ;D And lovejbl's system included.
And looking from your point of view, hindi naman talaga audible ang changes ng wires sa system na yun, be it balanced or unbalanced and speaker wires. I underatand what you mean.
But there are also other systems that are very transparent. Most of them, in their simplest form, na subtle changes in wires or positioning does make a slight audible difference.
I do use EQ in my system, pero sa digital side. Hindi sa analog chain. I've had first hand experience na analog EQs tend to add too much coloration (for me) even at zero. And it's also true na anything na idagdag natin, or anything na dadaanan ng signal chain, wires, preamps etc, are dagdag coloration. The point (my point ;)) here is, how to minimize the coloration. Kaya nga very popular din yun mga Nelson Pass passive preamps, kasi less ang cocloration niya because passive siya.
-
ibat ibang set ups talaga, ibat ibang flavor. That includes everything from the source up to the speakers (cables included ha). Pati nga positioning lang and room treatment nababago nya ang tunog eh.
For me, mas mahalaga to identify first kung ano ba talaga ang gusto mong klaseng sound then build your system para ma-achieve mo yun.
-
Pati nga positioning lang and room treatment nababago nya ang tunog eh.
Nababago talaga nya kasi the room affects the sound more than anything else in the chain.
-
before i dont believe that speaker cables have their own characteristics.....afterall they are all the same strands of copper binded together.... tapos to hear two diff cable side by side, i switch my preamp to mono and used two diff cables on left and right channel( i dont know if this test if proper for AB testing, sinubukan ko lang)......may difference nga. i dont know the science of it why it gives diff results, so ang bottom line for me is to get the cables na swak sa taste ko and dont buy something just because it looks good......
+1 for me.
For example I have experienced...
a) IC that bring out the brightness of a system. (Audioquest ICs)
b) IC that tame the brightness by opening up the mid-range. (Chord ICs)
A very noticeable difference in SQ is if you switch from copper wires to silver wires.
Recently also experienced cleaner sound with ICs that have plastic plugs versus copper plugs.
The difference is not something you will notice immediately but if you listen to your systesm 1-2-3hours a day then the minor changes become significant in the enjoyment of the music.
-
Cable manufacturer said that electron or current passing to an specific conductor has an effect to its insulator, this is one of the reason why cable need breakin period. One insight, in cable properties Meron silang sina sabing skin effect. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers,
-
imho, based on actual testing or actual use:
QED IC (yung tag p1.6k) - revealing.
Monster Cable IC (yung tag p1.5k) - neutral
Anthony Audio IC (yung tag p1.5k) - warm
just sharing. ;D
-
current passing thru cables causes heat loss no matter how minute, this is inescapable....
perhaps this is one reason using heavier gauge of wire makes sense...
alternating current passing thru cables have this "skin" effect,
but in the high megahertz regions, no for audio frequencies...
a number 18 wire is good up to 21khz when considering this skin effect,
that is why several strands of smaller wires as in a cat5 cable is immuned at this frequency...
when exposed to air, copper reacts with hydrogen and becomes tarnished,
that is why silver plating helps...
when exposed to air, several plastic insulations lose original consistency and hardens and discolors....
there is no escaping this, in time you have a cable that is not pliant as the day you first got it...
may even have changed in color and has become stiff...
that is why replacing then when they show signs of wear can be a good thing..
or perhaps redoing the end terminations can save you from buying a new one...
i read advertisements by manufacturers....they are all meant to sell, not to educate... ;)
i have seen this effects from making house calls on rich clients having these cables...
they buy new ones and give the old cables to me, para tansuin... ;D
-
eh yung VDH white color with stranded silver wire? ;D ;D ;D
-
Cal, comment naman diyan, your thoughts are very welcome.
-
But unfortunately, hindi yun ang preference ko. ;) Now i know your preference. ;D
i am a simple guy, i go for bang for the buck, if i were as rich as those guys, then who knows?, maybe.... :D ;)
but then maybe not, kung alam mo kung paano ginagawa ang "tira-tira" hindi ka bibile noon.... ;D ;D ;D
-
I've been there and heard his primary set-up. ....
But unfortunately, hindi yun ang preference ko. ;) Now i know your preference. ;D And lovejbl's system included.
And looking from your point of view, hindi naman talaga audible ang changes ng wires sa system na yun, be it balanced or unbalanced and speaker wires. I underatand what you mean.
But there are also other systems that are very transparent. Most of them, in their simplest form, na subtle changes in wires or positioning does make a slight audible difference.
I do use EQ in my system, pero sa digital side. Hindi sa analog chain. I've had first hand experience na analog EQs tend to add too much coloration (for me) even at zero. ...Kaya nga very popular din yun mga Nelson Pass passive preamps, kasi less ang cocloration niya because passive siya.
wow, buti pa kayo ni papa Tony, napuntahan at narinig nyo na yang system ni Mang Bert.
heard the ritual:warm up, pink noise,RTA, wall of sound -can only imagine.
btw, ano preference mo Sir then :)?
I for one uses a Tone Control if need be. sometimes to compensate for the poor recordings or my preference at the time (mood). also, to compensate for our ear's freq response limitation (Fletcher Munson). am sure, mga veteran members dito can only hear up to 14Khz (14Khz~, kaput na...). yes, too many variables.
i just use thickly gauged stranded speaker wires. i prefer hardwiring than use of speaker connectors.
right now, am using Edrel's bare copper flat wire as my speaker wire, ayuz.
-
If one were to approximate the difference of cables to a system my take there is probably less than 5% for some speakers however for other speakers the difference may be higher. In my experience may speaker na mas tolerant sa minute changes in ancilliary equipment like cables and interconnects and meron din naman na noticeable yung effect.
Case in point the giant killer econo model DM302 by B&W. I probably tried 4 kinds of speaker wires from the ordinary Php20 per meter OFC to Php500 per meter Silver coated VDH Clearwaters and the sound still remained the same....which is very good to begin with but OTOH I experimented with other speaker models and they were less tolerant of the changes..sometimes ninipis yung bass or kulang sa "diin". Others naman top end will either be excessive or somewhat rolled off.
They are essentially passive tone controls.
BTW analog Eq's have altogether been avoided by a lot of people because of the increase in noise floor or in other terms when di na kaya mag pitch black yung system whenever a recording calls for it. Very noticeable yan sa controlled environment like a treated room. For PA it won't be noticed that much that's why popular pa din sa set up ng PA yung EQ ng Rane, Alesis etc.
One might consider them as active tone controls.
-
Am a big 302 fan myself and noticed that too, manhid na speaker na yan, whatever you throw at it...it still sounds good :D
-
yung speaker cable ko di naman branded diy lang but it really help made a difference sa sq ng system ko..... just me!
-
Am a big 302 fan myself and noticed that too, manhid na speaker na yan, whatever you throw at it...it still sounds good :D
so i think that is is safe to say that it is hard or even unfair to generalise cables....there are far too many variables that are interplaying here....
-
wow, buti pa kayo ni papa Tony, napuntahan at narinig nyo na yang system ni Mang Bert.
heard the ritual:warm up, pink noise,RTA, wall of sound -can only imagine.
btw, ano preference mo Sir then :)?
Sour graping lang ako palibhasa hindi ko afford yun system na yun. :P
Actually, malakas kasi sila magpatugtog. Hindi na po kayang i-process ng utak ko. ;D Slightly below reference levels lan ako. Wag lang papa-inumin ni master Tony ng wine. :P
-
so i think that is is safe to say that it is hard or even unfair to generalise cables....there are far too many variables that are interplaying here....
Agree bro.
-
so i think that is is safe to say that it is hard or even unfair to generalise cables....there are far too many variables that are interplaying here....
So maybe you can now agree that cables can make a difference... ;D
-
So maybe you can now agree that cables can make a difference... ;D
hahaha nadale mo si bro tony ah! :)
-
Sharing comments from an end user.
========================
Sunday Life
The Philippine Star
The Missing Link
AUDIOFILE By Val A. Villanueva
Sunday,October 02, 2011
One of the few pairs of XLR cables that Cal custom-built for my system
We’ve been deluged with questions from readers regarding our last column which discussed the importance of line buffers in maintaining the integrity of electronic signals in high-fidelity audio.
“What about interconnects and speaker cables?” they ask.
Some want to know: “Do we really need quality cables? Are the exorbitant prices of high-end interconnects and speaker wires justified?’”
We absolutely need high-quality cables to bridge different electronic components in the audio chain to ensure zero losses in analog signals between audio equipment, but I believe that mind boggling prices of these accessories do not guarantee to-die-for sonic. Cables between components are called interconnects, while speaker wires carry the signal between amplifiers and speakers. The tag price of these so-called ‘high-end’ cables for audiophiles can be unbelievably staggering, with some being more expensive than the total price of the stereo system itself; but I’m not in a position to say that such may be unreasonable. Manufacturers may have their own reasons for stipulating such prices – could be rocket science, extensive research, intricate construction geometries and unusual provisions such as silver and oxygen-free copper – so let’s just leave it at that.
Audio signals traverse different stages before they are reproduced as music to be audibly heard from the loudspeakers. Pre-amplifiers translate (decode and attenuate) electronic signals coming from music sources such as CD players and turntables, pass this on to the amplifiers which in turn re-translate and amplify these signals into music. Cables bridging these components should be then extremely capable of handling the loads of these signals, affirming that nothing is lost in the translation.
Cables carrying analog signals are most vulnerable to errors and, most often, bad cables become the missing link to the enjoyment of quality music. S/PDIF and HDMI cables, which use error-correction technology, are resistant to signal degradation. However, these cables carry digital signals and are not that useful for audiophiles who still embrace the analog technology.
There are three main elements that make up cables and interconnects: the signal conductors, the dielectric, and the terminations. Conductors transmit the audio signal; the dielectric is a shielding material between and around the conductors; and the terminations connects them to audio equipment. Fused together, these elements become a physical structure which is called the cable’s geometry which somehow affects the sonic character of the system to which they are connected.
Choosing cables and interconnects should be considered as the final or finishing touches to one’s stereo system. Just like building a house, it should be the last addition to perk up the house’s interiors. Ideally, they are supposed to be the last tweak which should propel your system on to the right path.
But which among the myriad of brands should one settle for? The first and most important thing to do is to try them on your system. Most dealers allow their products to be auditioned; take advantage of this. Choose the brand that most suits your music preference. Remember, it is only you who can decide which brand fits your music taste.
All my cables, except the speaker wires and power plugs, are DIYed. I have tried different branded interconnects, and finally settled on the interconnects that were custom-built for me by Cal Cano, known in the audiophile community as Tjaderman, a big fan of Jazz artist C. T’Jader.
Building audio cables is not actually his day job. It is more of a hobby and a passion which began when he started trying out different cables and realized that the sound character of his system changes with every brand. He then learned to distinguish by instinct which brand, construction and materials gave him the most satisfaction.
He then built his own and had his creation tried by audiophile friends. One by one, they started placing orders, and the rest, as they say, is history. I was one of those who tried and liked what I heard. His cables do not add coloration to the sound; they are perfectly neutral.
Cal prefers solid wires over stranded, because the former “exhibit a more linear frequency response, aside from providing faster presentation, especially in music with transient passages.”
“A single-core silver plated structure in which the straying current is not theoretically generated, allows a signal transmission extremely faithful to the original source without the incidental impurities in sound and distortion,” Cal explained.
So, never thumb your nose at local DIYers. In my experience, their creations help me find the missing link in my fully evolved sound system.
=====================
My doctors A/V room worth P1.5M also uses Cal's IC and wires and is now a happy camper.
My simple answer to the TS is yes and no. Not all can determine the difference, our ears are not created equal. You may if you know what to look for, else all cables will just sound the same. I did not posted the article to promote Cal, i just wanted to say that even DIY or any cheapo cables can make a difference, it just boils down to someones preference. So make it a habit to always clean your ears. ;)
-
So maybe you can now agree that cables can make a difference... ;D
to be frank, i don't really care...:D
i do not take anecdotes as proof of anything..... >:D
i will not rely on cables for my system, as long as they are well built, they are good enough...
i make my own...
to me the speakers are still the deal maker or breaker...
-
hahaha nadale mo si bro tony ah! :)
akala mo lang yon....:D
-
Bakit hindi yata kasama ang power cord sa equation? ;D ;D ;D
Nagulo na lalo. ;D ;D ;D
-
i think dapat na nga palitan title ng thread as do cables really make a difference?
-
just sharing something i came across with while looking-up an unrelated subject...
(http://i.imgur.com/vgjs9sn.jpg)
PDF link for the entire article - http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Wired%20Wisdom.pdf (http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Wired%20Wisdom.pdf)
-
Bakit hindi yata kasama ang power cord sa equation? ;D ;D ;D
Nagulo na lalo. ;D ;D ;D
pag sinama ang power cord (exotic type), paano naman ang current limiter fuse protection ?panggulo ulet :D
ang gara at ang laki ng power cord, tapos dadaan sa kapiranggot na single stranded wire...
solution: tanggalin (at your risk), palitan ng gold/silver/blonde hair strand/exotic link material ;D
-
^ blonde hair? your system will sound dumb!
-
just imagine then what a single strand of Einstein's white hair would do... ;D
-
pag sinama ang power cord (exotic type), paano naman ang current limiter fuse protection ?panggulo ulet :D
ang gara at ang laki ng power cord, tapos dadaan sa kapiranggot na single stranded wire...
solution: tanggalin (at your risk), palitan ng gold/silver/blonde hair strand/exotic link material ;D
kelangan palitan ang wiring ng bahay using audiophile quality wires or yet connect a very long powercord direct sa meralco transformer >:D
-
Sour graping lang ako palibhasa hindi ko afford yun system na yun. :P
Actually, malakas kasi sila magpatugtog. Hindi na po kayang i-process ng utak ko. ;D Slightly below reference levels lan ako. Wag lang papa-inumin ni master Tony ng wine. :P
Nelson, di kay yung kaya lovejbl ang tinukoy mo, ang alam ko multi amping din sya using kt88 sets and yung ni rebuild ko na 16KT88 trioded pp amp pang subwoofer, 5 way yung system nya i i recall...
yung kay Godfather(he does not want his name mentioned) mga 845 na sets if i recall pero hindi ako nakarating doon, sa welcome lang ako...:D
those gears are already stateside btw.....
-
An artist before going to the recording studio should have a "vision" of how her/his album should sound, it's one of the first few steps in the creative process, part of the process are the tweaks involved in the recording. In short,everything done in the recording studio is a conscious effort to turn the artist's vision into reality. I think that's the reason why audiophiles doesn't want to use tone controls, to hear it as close to how it was recorded as possible.
this is a very good post actually....this is where we all start...
since most users have no idea how a particular piece of music was recorded,
naturally they have no idea how it will sound like during reproduction...
pre martial law channel 5 news department, i was there visiting my father,
there was this newscaster reading scripts while recording on a Sony open reel tape deck,
when he played it back, i could swear it was a 100% perfect reproduction....
add to the fact that we all have our biases and preferences,
some would like more emphasis on the treble,
some on the bass, still some on the female voices...
they get what they want and they are happy...
so this is where cables enter the scene...
many are looking for the sounds that their ears will be happy to hear...
is that a bad thing? of course not, no way jose.....
but realise that we are now straying away from the concept of high fidelity..
what it the music was poorly recorded? will you still want it to sound nice?
when i listen to music, i want it to be clear, not tiring to listen to, as long as i can hear instruments
that i know was there i am happy...
thus, terms such as laid back, warm, dark, does not mean anything to me...
i simply enjoy the music that i like.... >:D
-
Nelson, di kay yung kaya lovejbl ang tinukoy mo, ang alam ko multi amping din sya using kt88 sets and yung ni rebuild ko na 16KT88 trioded pp amp pang subwoofer, 5 way yung system nya i i recall...
yung kay Godfather(he does not want his name mentioned) mga 845 na sets if i recall pero hindi ako nakarating doon, sa welcome lang ako...:D
those gears are already stateside btw.....
I stand corrected. 845 nga ata yun. I did not have the chance to audition the wall of sound. :D
-
I stand corrected. 845 nga ata yun. I did not have the chance to audition the wall of sound. :D
iisipin mo na sa ganoong karaming speakers, todo ang spl, pero hindi, tama lang ang volume level, as if you are listening to the real thing...
meron nga akong nakita doon na speaker cable halos kasing laki na ng battery cables....:D
pero hindi namin napagusapan ang tungkol sa cables....
our conversations centered on tube amps and how they should be built, it turns out we are on the same plane wrt to amp designs.... ;D
-
this is a very good post actually....this is where we all start...
since most users have no idea how a particular piece of music was recorded,
naturally they have no idea how it will sound like during reproduction...
pre martial law channel 5 news department, i was there visiting my father,
there was this newscaster reading scripts while recording on a Sony open reel tape deck,
when he played it back, i could swear it was a 100% perfect reproduction....
add to the fact that we all have our biases and preferences,
some would like more emphasis on the treble,
some on the bass, still some on the female voices...
they get what they want and they are happy...
so this is where cables enter the scene...
many are looking for the sounds that their ears will be happy to hear...
is that a bad thing? of course not, no way jose.....
but realise that we are now straying away from the concept of high fidelity..
what it the music was poorly recorded? will you still want it to sound nice?
when i listen to music, i want it to be clear, not tiring to listen to, as long as i can hear instruments
that i know was there i am happy...
thus, terms such as laid back, warm, dark, does not mean anything to me...
i simply enjoy the music that i like.... >:D
This is true. It still boils down sa preference ng listener. Kaya para sakin, there's no perfect sound for everyone. What may be good for me might not be good for others and vice versa. Pinakamahalaga pa din is naeenjoy mo ang music mo.
-
My experience is that there are varying stages of system appreciation. The driving force is change. People are predisposed to prefer change. We may start with a crappy system but love it. Our ears are only as good as our last great audition. Every stage is exciting and in an ideal world, you move up to better sound. It never really stops as long as you are searching for change. Even high end systems are often changed. A change may be real or psychological. But change is change. Enjoy.
-
So branded cables don't male a difference then? ;D
-
So branded cables don't male a difference then? ;D
Most of the cables are male they are not she-male......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
So branded cables don't make a difference then? ;D
BRANDED! BRANDED! BRANDED! >:D >:D >:D
Wala misis ko dito... ;D ;D
-
Most of the cables are male they are not female......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
unless you put a female connector to it... he...he...he ;) ;) ;)
-
the speaker jacks are female...the banana plugs are male last time i looked...ROFLMAO!!!!....
-
Connect a male jack to a female jack and you get a baby jack.
-
Connect a male jack to a female jack and you get a baby jack.
So thats how its made.... Hehehehe
-
Connect a male jack to a female jack and you get a baby jack.
thats jack.........coooooooool!!! OT na he he....
-
anak ng...napunta na sa baby ang mga kable! Hahaha!
-
anak ng...napunta na sa baby ang mga kable! Hahaha!
mga jack-of all trades kasi eh :)
-
hahaha.....
-
basta me sinasaksak at hinuhugot na cable, meron nyan....
-
ang ganda ng reply ni av_phile1
Good Point. Hehe
"Humans have a maximum aural range that begins as low as 12 Hz under ideal laboratory conditions,[4] to 20 kHz[note 1]; Men have approximately 5 to 10 dB greater loss in the upper frequencies by age 40"
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range;
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml