PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Tubes => Topic started by: ATJr. on Nov 25, 2013 at 08:12 PM
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this thread is for those that believe in tube rolling..... ;D
you can post your favorite tubes to roll here for others to refer to...
for starters, these are youtube links...
how to spot a 12ax7 tube..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d-cZB7DgA
how to spot a 12au7 tube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EisjVc5yIj4
how to spot a 6L6gc tube....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tnYpD9F7w0
how to spot an EL34 tube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXBVSIaqkkU
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rectifier tubes for rolling :)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN6433_zpsb373c963.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN6433_zpsb373c963.jpg.html)
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5V4 has a heather/cathode, the 5Y3's are directly heated....
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the much venerated 6SN7 started as a TV tube in the vertical scanning section,
when more brawn was needed, they came up with the 6BL7 and the 6BX7...
still as time went by and the drive towards miniaturization of equipment using tubes,
the 6SN7 guts migtrated to the 9pin miniature and was called the 6CG7/6FQ7...
it is said that in a rush to cope with the demand for the new form factor,
some octal 6SN7 were gutted and innards taken....how true? ;)
the 12 volt version, the 12au7 is called by many names is a baby 6SN7...
the miniature 6GU7 is more like a 12BH7....
http://www.hawestv.com/mtv_cbssys/cbssysadapt1.htm
http://www.ee.sc.edu/classes/Spring12/elct402/AssignmentDetails/RCA_Victor.pdf
notice that, the tv vetical scanning circuits are actually audio amplilers,
the basis of today's line amps using the 6SN7..
(http://www.hawestv.com/mtv_cbssys/cbs_color_art/KCmultivib_conv1.gif)
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master maganda ang sq sa 5v4-sylvania at 5y3-truetone. Sa sylvania malambing tamed ang highs sa truetone very wide ang soundstage at very crispy at medyo airy pero hindi sobra :)
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Mga masters, i'm a newbie when it comes to tubes and tube amp. Pwede po paki-explain pa in layman's term what tube rolling means. ;)
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bunutin yung tubes sa socket,
papalitan ng ibang brand na same number,
then pakikinggan ang sound kung ano pinagkaiba...
pwede izero ang volume control ng preamp at power amp... ;)
markahan ang tube, "mataba", "maganda sa boses", "makalansing", etc.
pwede ring, microphonic yung tube, sensitive sa mechanical vibrations...
marami kang madidikubre sa tube rolling.... :D
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I want to learn more about how my amp works. I have a Sun Audio SV-2a3 clone. 2a3, 6SN7, 5U4 tubes. Schemes are all over the net. Can you explain (if that is even possible for a layman to understand) how the tubes and transformers participate in the amplification? I am keen to understand the stages rather than how things technically work in detail.
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I want to learn more about how my amp works. I have a Sun Audio SV-2a3 clone. 2a3, 6SN7, 5U4 tubes. Schemes are all over the net. Can you explain (if that is even possible for a layman to understand) how the tubes and transformers participate in the amplification? I am keen to understand the stages rather than how things technically work in detail.
(http://www.ys-audio.com/wce/sunaudiosv2a3.JPG)
in a nutshell....
1. the power transformer and associated rectifier/psu converts meralco to dc needed by the tubes plates and ac low voltage to power the filaments..
2. the output transformer matches tube plate resistance to a level that can feed or drive the speakers...
3. more than the tubes, the irons used in any tube amp is the deal maker, my reasoning is that tubes are easy, just get another and replace and you're done. but transformers are set once you stick them in...
4. once the power tube operating points have been decided, like for the 2A3, that's 250 volt plate at 60mA cathode current, you need to drive its grid to get output swing, the power tube plate current is maximum at near 0 volt grid and minimum at about -45 volts and beyond. we will need another tube to provide this grid voltage swing...
at the chosen operating point, the 2A3's plate resistance is about 800ohm, so that a 2.5k ohm plate load is consistent with low distortion and reasonable power output...
5. the voltage amplifier is used, it can be a triode like the 6SN7 or a pentode like the EL84 or a D3a. the voltage amplifier converts a 1 volt input to a 45volt peak output.
6. the 6sn7 has an amplification factor of about 20, so 2 stages makes a maximum gain of about 400, but in reality voltage gain is much lower than 400, 100 is a realistic figure, the 2A3 has a gain of 4 so that your amplifier tubes has a gain of about 400, divide that by the turns ratio of the OPT at about 18, so that your gain structure is about 23.
7. what this means is that a 1 volt peak will give 23 volts peak at the speaker terminal...
tubes are easier to figure out than SS, up to now, heated debates are on-going at diyaudio....
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Wow, that was quick. A mouthful to digest but doable with more reading.
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l225/ginopunsalan/Home%20Audio/Setup%202013%202a3/1B4B831F-EA3A-4009-B304-6D9E7678F684_zpsryjapki9.jpg)
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single ended amps are the easiest to do and recommended for newbies,
just get your components right, and you will be rewarded with a nice sounding amp....
the 2A3's are not prone to humming because of its low filament voltage..
millions and millions of Single ended amps were built into TV sets of days gone by.....
but of course the SET's of today are not the same.....but they sound the same then and now...
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jj el34 power tubes courtesy of master tonyT
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7275_zps8914ec8f.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7275_zps8914ec8f.jpg.html)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7278_zps645825c4.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7278_zps645825c4.jpg.html)
now burning ;)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7281_zps04b29dd0.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7281_zps04b29dd0.jpg.html)
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jj el34 power tubes courtesy of master tonyT
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7275_zps8914ec8f.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7275_zps8914ec8f.jpg.html)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7278_zps645825c4.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7278_zps645825c4.jpg.html)
now burning ;)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7281_zps04b29dd0.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7281_zps04b29dd0.jpg.html)
Congrats Bro!
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Congrats Bro!
thanks! "Merry Christmas to all"
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pair of 6sn7 and motorola 5Y3 rectifier tube for rolling (all black plate) ^-^
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN7928_zps5ec7b1a2.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN7928_zps5ec7b1a2.jpg.html)
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the brand may be different but they look like the same tubes....
that was how it was in the olden days, GE buys from RCA, RCA buys from Philips, etc, etc, that is why you see identical tubes having different brand labels...
there is even 6H8C tubes sold as 6SN7 bit International brand...
Trigon sels 6L6GC which are identical to a Russian 6P3C......
just a big merry go round...:D
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rolling again ;)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN8349_zpse9d9be98.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN8349_zpse9d9be98.jpg.html)
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rolling again ;)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN8349_zpse9d9be98.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN8349_zpse9d9be98.jpg.html)
feeling itchy bro... hehehe... try mo naman kt88...
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kt88 will be asking too much, hindi designed yung power traffo for the kt88/6550 in that amp...
6l6gc is more like it, i have quad here that Jun can try out....
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kt88 will be asking too much, hindi designed yung power traffo for the kt88/6550 in that amp...
6l6gc is more like it, i have quad here that Jun can try out....
ayan bro jun, 6L6gc na....!
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feeling itchy bro... hehehe... try mo naman kt88...
curious lang bro sa SQ ayos din maganda ang lows at boses. ;)
kt88 will be asking too much, hindi designed yung power traffo for the kt88/6550 in that amp...
6l6gc is more like it, i have quad here that Jun can try out....
ayos yan master try ko minsan para marinig kung ano difference he he... ^-^
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ayan bro jun, 6L6gc na....!
oo nga try ko minsan kung ano improvement he he.
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kunin mo na lang sa house pag balik mo dito....:D
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kunin mo na lang sa house pag balik mo dito....:D
ayos!!! thanks master ;D
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6cg7 and 6j9 driver tubes courtesy of master tonyT
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN8881_zpsf3d578b5.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN8881_zpsf3d578b5.jpg.html)
in action
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN8885_zpsf1a5ba02.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN8885_zpsf1a5ba02.jpg.html)
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nice......:D
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another RCA rectifier tube for rolling (dunno ::) the number but its huge)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN9007_zpse523fd37.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN9007_zpse523fd37.jpg.html)
The 6SN7 tubes looks like peanut tubes sitting beside this rectifier :o :o :o
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN9006_zps04bf0137.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN9006_zps04bf0137.jpg.html)
and it gave a wonderful sound!!! ;) ;) ;)
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5670 windmill on top and sylvania at the bottom peanut tubes for tube buffer ;).smooth black plate square getter coming soon ^-^
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN9009_zps1bf0ec39.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN9009_zps1bf0ec39.jpg.html)
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daming tubes ha.... set amp na ba sunod... >:D >:D
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daming tubes ha.... set amp na ba sunod... >:D >:D
malapit na hehe!!!
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12EN6 on the right, GE 12W6 in the middle, and left Sylvania !2W6.....
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_4440_zps8abf352e.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_4440_zps8abf352e.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_4400_zps409c0ef0.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_4400_zps409c0ef0.jpg.html)
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nice match quad master :)
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tungsol 12J5 match pair for my upcoming tube buffer
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN9718_zps568b859b.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN9718_zps568b859b.jpg.html)
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6L6 :)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN9994_zps72eb74b9.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN9994_zps72eb74b9.jpg.html)
in action ;)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN0008_zps713c5e17.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN0008_zps713c5e17.jpg.html)
sylvania 5931 rectifier :)
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/DSCN9993_zps3367bde9.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/DSCN9993_zps3367bde9.jpg.html)
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Very nice haul bro. Dami mo nang tubes, pahingi naman hehehehe
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6L6 courtesy of master tonyT pamalit sa EL34, sylvania 5931 rectifier tube courtesy of sir gerry sta. maria bro. Both gave very good sound laki ng improvement sa system hehe...
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Vincent77;4081056
Factors that influence a tube's sound/performance, in no particular order:
- anode and cathode geometry (surface area, distances)
- electrode composition and coating (anode metal and coating material, cathode composition, grid plating, etc)
- grid type (frame grid/classic)
- assembly precision and inter-electrode distance tolerances (depends on the skill of the operator and the machine's performance)
- mechanic rigidity of the structure (some are more microphonic/resonant than others)
- presence of anti-microphony structures (ECC88 has mica cathode springs, E88CC doesn't)
- filament structure (some are wound to reduce AC hum)
- internal shielding
- quality control (all tubes are not created equal, some are more or less close to datasheet specs. "Special quality" tubes are consistently better/more reliable)
- mica spacers (3 mica tubes are better, because the getter flash is better isolated and does not contaminate the electrodes. Also, tubes where internal spacers do not touch the glass sound different)
- contact pin plating metal type
- ...
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NOS Westinghouse 12AX7A & Telefunken ECC85
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/ronaldcorrales/Mobile%20Uploads/B549EA38-9D12-4793-92AA-B71E2EBD6509_zpsz9qytjv0.jpg) (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/ronaldcorrales/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B549EA38-9D12-4793-92AA-B71E2EBD6509_zpsz9qytjv0.jpg.html)
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a pair of Bendix 7403 power tubes, originally used in radar systems,will see action in my kt-88 set...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5019_zpsb8e03b93.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5019_zpsb8e03b93.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5018_zpsa6d159f2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5018_zpsa6d159f2.jpg.html)
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look at what i brought back from Dusit last night...;D
NOS tubes still in boxes, Philips, Telefunkens, Trigons....
sorted according to tube types....
ECC189(6dj8), PCC84, (7BK7 types) the pcc's can be plugged into sockets running ecc84's without problems...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5152_zpscd9455a7.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5152_zpscd9455a7.jpg.html)
a solitary VT99...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5154_zps7a62b693.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5154_zps7a62b693.jpg.html)
6DA4 damper tubes, 24JE6 power tubes...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5155_zps92b60f89.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5155_zps92b60f89.jpg.html)
tubes segregated, dual triodes, XF86 pentodes....
6FM7, 6GF5 compactrons, the late Efren like the 6FM7 a lot....
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5151_zpsbe1c909b.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5151_zpsbe1c909b.jpg.html)
10ufd polypropylende caps...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5150_zps4572da1d.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5150_zps4572da1d.jpg.html)
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What room were the tube sellers located? I did not see anyone selling tubes.
look at what i brought back from Dusit last night...;D
NOS tubes still in boxes, Philips, Telefunkens, Trigons....
sorted according to tube types....
ECC189(6dj8), PCC84, (7BK7 types) the pcc's can be plugged into sockets running ecc84's without problems..
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i also have a dozen PCL200, it is a triode pentode, can make a simple single ended amp out of it...
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/124/p/PCL200.pdf
(http://frank.pocnet.net/images/Tlf/p/PCL200_Telefunken_TT.jpg)
we can design a single ended or a push-pull amp if you like...
a nice project for the beginner...
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What room were the tube sellers located? I did not see anyone selling tubes.
no room....Edrel, my long time friend and tube pimp gave those box-full to me... ;)
at the driveway of the front lobby....;)
if you only knew how much i paid for those, you might fall out of your seat... >:D
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wow nice master dami nanaman pwedeng gawing project. maganda siguro pang SET yung PCL200 telefunken!
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i also have a dozen PCL200, it is a triode pentode, can make a simple single ended amp out of it...
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/124/p/PCL200.pdf
(http://frank.pocnet.net/images/Tlf/p/PCL200_Telefunken_TT.jpg)
we can design a single ended or a push-pull amp if you like...
a nice project for the beginner...
pa join ako diyan Sir Tony pag natuloy yang project na yan.
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pa join ako diyan Sir Tony pag natuloy yang project na yan.
hold your horses, the picture i posted is from the net... >:D
the actual tubes i have are from Trigon.... ;)
Trigon is a rebrander, they do not make their own tubes that i know of,
so that even if the carton says Trigon, these tubes could have been made
by Philips, Mazda or Mullard, all european tubes...
besides, these are genuine NOS tubes.....
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wow nice master dami nanaman pwedeng gawing project. maganda siguro pang SET yung PCL200 telefunken!
magugustuhan ni Joey yan....
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Did EDREL pass away?
no room....Edrel, my long time friend and tube pimp gave those box-full to me... ;)
at the driveway of the front lobby....;)
if you only knew how much i paid for those, you might fall out of your seat... >:D
tubes segregated, dual triodes, XF86 pentodes....
6FM7, 6GF5 compactrons, the late Efren like the 6FM7 a lot....
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5151_zpsbe1c909b.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5151_zpsbe1c909b.jpg.html)
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Did EDREL pass away?
no, Edrel is very much alive, healthy, wealthy and well, i promised him the Philips ecc189's....;)
Efren Noble who was from Teresa in Rizal was a frequent visitor to my house, he was a passionate
diy'er too attched to ClassA and tube sets, i helped him build his 13FM7 sets, providing him with the
irons he needed...he died more than a year ago, i was at his wake then, he was too young to go...
he could have made more tube amps were it not for fate intervened....
he is missed at elab.ph, his threads are still alive to this day...
efren also posted here at pdvd....
i have to admit, i am happiest when young people come to
the house asking me for advice ...
i do not look at them as an opportunity to make money....
but as a way to help them in their tube journey...
all because, as a young kid, we were too poor to afford the cost
of materials to build amps....my best friend in high school who is now in the states,
gave me my first soldering iron in the 60's....
i went to older guys who gave this things to me so i too
can have a head-start.....i am merely paying them back....
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a good read.....
CURRENT GLASS ELECTRON TUBE MANUFACTURERS
Updated 8/5/05
We currently estimate that the demand for audio tubes is growing 10% to 20% per year. Audio tubes are over a $200+ million dollar industry in the USA and possibly $500+ million dollars worldwide.
Note: this list shows all the small glass audio tubes believed in production at this time.(not counting exotic devices, such as photomultipliers and microwave devices)
RUSSIA
Reflector Corp, Saratov
Makes most of the tubes marketed by New Sensor Co. of New York under the "Sovtek" brand name. Some of these are Old Russian types; others are made especially for export. Types in production: 2A3, 300B, 12AX7 (3 variations known), EL34 (3 versions), 6CA7 fat, 5AR4, 5881, 6922, 6EU7, 6L6GB, 6V6GT, 6072A, 6973, 7199, 7591, 7868, EL84 (2 versions), KT66, KT88, KT90, 6P15P. "Sovtek" also markets 5U4G, 5Y3GT, 6SN7, 6SL7, three 12AX7s and a few other types made at other factories.
Note: there is no "Sovtek" factory. "Sovtek" is only an American brand name owned by New Sensor. New Sensor now owns the Svetlana brand name and is using on tubes manufactured by Reflector. The Electro Harmonix tubes are also made by this plant. In 2005 New Sensor bought the names of Mullard and Tung-Sol and is placing these names on tubes of their New Sensor banner.
Ryazan Plant of Electronics, Ryazan
Makes power triodes for RF and audio applications. Some are sold outside Russia by Svetlana Electron Devices. Ryazan has also made large thyratrons and pulse tubes. Types in production: 811A (popular and sold all over the world), 812A, SV811-3, SV811-10, SV572-3, SV572-10, SV572-30, SV572-160, GM-100, others. SV types and 812A are made especially for Svetlana Electron Devices.
SED Winged C, St. Petersburg
A major Russian power-tube manufacturer. Formerly a part of the huge Svetlana collective factory, now independent. SED tubes are now distributed in North America and Europe by PM Components. Types in production: EL34, SV6L6GC, SV6550C, 300B, EL509, EF86, 6BM8, 6AS7, 3CX300A1, 6D22S, GP-5, and a long list of large power types for amateur radio, broadcast and industrial uses. KT88 and 12AX7 are having been recently introduced.
Ulyanov, Ulyanovsk
Large state-owned factory specializes in military equipment. Also makes tubes for use in military aircraft electronics. Types in production: GU-50, GU-13/813, 6S33S-V, 6S19P, 6S41P, others. 6S33 is becoming popular in high-end amplifiers in America and Japan.
Voskhod, Kaluga
Large collective factory, makes many ICs and other semiconductors as well as receiving tubes. Types in production: 6N1P-EV, 6AX7, 12AX7WA and WB, 6SN7, 6SL7 and a few other types sold by various firms outside Russia, such as New Sensor/"Sovtek" and Svetlana Electron Devices.
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CHINA
Shuguang Electrical Factory No. 1
Owned by Korean firm Samsung. Shuguang makes most of the popular audio and guitar types, which are frequently rebranded by importers and OEMs. Types believed in production: 6L6GC, EL34 (3 types), 6550, KT100, 5AR4, 2A3, 807. Possibly 211, 845--unconfirmed. Shuguang's low-cost tubes are often seen in guitar amps. (Thanks to Chris Beeching for info.)
Liuzhou
Makes many types which are marketed abroad. PM Components, a British firm, has "Golden Dragon" types made by Liuzhou. (Thanks to Chris Beeching for info.)
O&J Enterprises/Valve Art
Makes the following: 6L6GC, EL34, 6550A, KT88, KT100, 300B, 300B-C60 (graphite plate 60w), 5300B (graphite plate 80w 150mA), and 6300B (graphite plate 80w 180mA), plus possibly other types, at a factory in Changsha, Hunan. (Thanks to Wilfred ter Borg for type list.)
"Sino" factory in Beijing recently stopped making 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AU7, 6GH8, 6AN8 and other small tubes, due to a poor market and tough competition from Sovtek/New Sensor. It is said that Sino made the popular, low-cost 211s and 845s often seen in SE amplifiers; this cannot be confirmed. Sino is apparently no longer making any tubes. There are other tube factories in China. Most keep a very low profile. Some of these lesser-known factories specialize in transmitting tubes such as the 811A, 812A, 813, 3-500Z,4-400, 100TH, 833 and others. Such transmitting types are often branded with old American/European brands and sold without notification that they are Chinese-made, as are the audio types.
SLOVAKIA, CZECH REPUBLICS
JJ Electronic, Cadca, Slovakia
A spinoff from now-defunct state factory Tesla factory. Outside of Slovakia, JJ tubes are often sold under the Teslovak or Tesla brand name. Groove tubes is a major distributor. Types in production: GZ34, KT88S, EL34, E34L, ECC803S, ECC83/12AX7, EL84, 2A3, 6L6GC, 6V6GTS, 300B, 7027A, 7591S. Some of the power pentode types are available in red or blue glass.
AVVT, Prague, Czech Republic
Run by former Vaic Valve Co. founder Alesa Vaic. Manufactures’ audio power triodes for high-end hi-fi amplifiers. Types in production: AV300B SL, AV32B SL, AV62B SL, and others.
KR Enterprise, Prague, Czech Republic
Formerly Vaic Valve Co, now operated by Riccardo and Eunice Kron. Manufactures power triodes for high-end audio amplifiers. Types in production: VV30B, VV300B, VV52B, KR1, a single-plate 2A3 and other types.
YUGOSLAVIA
EI Electronic Industries, Nis, Serbia
Former state-owned factory, makes all types of electrical products, still making tubes using some old Philips production tooling and equipment. Marketed outside of Serbia by Edicron Electronic Components Ltd, UK. Types in production: 6CA7, 6CG7, 12AT7, 12AX7, 12BH7, 12DW7, EL34, EL519, PL519, KT90, KT99, EL84, EL86, possibly a few others. Latest reports indicate that the EI factory was not destroyed in the 1999 Kosovo conflict by NATO missles. (as early 2011 I still do not know if this factory is back in operation. Myles)
UKRAINE
Poljaron, Lvov
Makes 833A and some Russian power types, plus related products such as vacuum capacitors
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USA
Richardson Electronics, LaFox, IL
Makes a 300B, 845 and 50 sold under the Cetron brand for high-end audio, as well as a KT88 sold under the National brand.
Richardson has large quantities of tooling obtained from old American tube factories when they shut down. Also makes some larger transmitting and high-voltage types. Richardson markets many tubes, obtained from other factories worldwide, under their own brand names; such as Cetron, National and Amperex.
Westrex Corporation, Kansas City, MO
Makes the reissued Western Electric 300B for high-end audio. Claims to be developing a KT88, WE308, WE274A and other old WE types for future manufacture. Corporate and sales offices are located in Atlanta and Chattanooga. Also has sales office in UK. Tube manufacturing facility was relocated from Kansas City to Huntsville, AL. This firm is independent of AT&T Corporation and has licensed the brand names from AT&T.
MU, Oceanside, CA
Small contract factory, makes occasional runs of unusual glass and metal-ceramic tubes for military use. Still makes some of the old "Bendix Red Bank" tubes, such as the 6094 and 6384, in occasional lots.
Triton Services ETD, Gaithersburg, MD
Makes some Eimac and Litton glass power types, using equipment from the original manufacturers. Recently discontinued some glass types, such as 4-65A, 4-125A, 250TH, 304TH/TL, etc. (these types are now only available from China).
Great Tube Makers of the past - This information is from Vintage Tube Services. They have a great website at http://www.vintagetubeservices.com/
AMPEREX
Located at 79 Washington Street in Brooklyn, New York, Amperex was a long established manufacturer of transmitting tubes when they were acquired by the giant Dutch firm, Phillips in 1955 or so. Phillips continued to improve and enlarge the transmitting plant in New York, but also used the Amperex name to distribute their fine new line of Dutch made minis, (12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7) to feed the booming U.S. Hi-Fi market. These sweet & airy, but still full and solid sounding tubes have been the favourite of music lovers for 45 years! Classic Hi-fi brands such as Marantz, Fisher, Scott, etc... owe a large part of their great sound to these tubes. In the line up of the three sisters, the three European sisters that is, the Amperex is like the fair-haired Dutch blond. The Telefunken is the tall, well built, sandy haired blond in the family, and the Mullard is the ravishing black haired, British brunette. These are of course just slight "hues" in the perspective that these tubes present, as they are really all extremely transparent units. And of course we can't forget the 6DJ8, 6922 & 7308 frame grid tubes. Developed by Amperex in 1958 when transistors were already starting to take over the electronics industry & originally developed for video & radar use, the 6DJ8 has come into heavy use in audio over the last 15 years. And Amperex definitely made some great ones like the
Original "Bugle Boy" series with it's seemingly, magical ability to filter out noise like the Mullards do, and the later, map versions with their full, balanced sound, black background, and great sound staging.
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TELEFUNKEN
Telefunken of West Germany, founded in 1903 is the standard bearer of tonal neutrality in the 12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7 series of tubes. These tubes are (along with the other European four) THE "Start of The Art" in miniature tubes, long prized, and now rare and expensive, dropping a couple of these under the hood of your pre-amp or power-amp can show just how bad today's 9 pin minis really are! They also made a good 6DJ8, 6922 & 7308 though the real ones are quite rare. Note; This does not apply to East German E88CC & other 6 volt mini's that were made behind the Iron curtain during the cold war years and many are sold by others, as the real thing, at top dollar. These tubes sound dark and hard, and are very sub-standard. They have been flooding the market ever since the Berlin wall came down. V.T.S. I have identified these tubes and you will never have to worry about ending up with these. There is more on these makers with photos and old artwork at http://www.vintagetubeservices.com/ which is where this vintage tube information came from.
MULLARD
Mullard was founded by Captain S.R. Mullard in 1920 and was from the beginning one of the finest tube manufacturers in the world. Mullard tubes have a rich, warm, presentation that still supplies all of the detail and information that any "state of the art" tube does but with a suave European flavour that is perfect for many of today's more forward systems. The EL34, EL37, & Mini tubes 6DJ8, 12AX7, 12AU7, etc are some of the longest - lasting, toughest, finest sounding tubes ever made! Mullard is one of the few tubes that have the almost magical ability to separate the noise from the music, and the ability to present the two in different places on the soundstage. This is something that transistors never do! Mullard did go into a gradual slide, correlating to general "efficiency & modernizing" starting on the late 60s and got pretty bad by the late 70s. It was all over by 1981. There also seems to be a good number of tubes coming to the surface that seem to be made by someone else, but on the same machinery that are completely sub-standard. They seem to be from the early 80s. The "other guys" sell these as the real stuff and YOU suffer.
Myles: in 2008-2009 a group of folks tried to bring the old Mullard plant back into operation. They had a few new design tube offerings that looked very promising but could not get the funding to continue.
M & O
Marconi - Osram later known as M&O Valve was founded in 1919 by the joining of the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Co., and The Edison General Electric Co. (Osram). This formed, what was at the time one of the largest pools of electron tube making experience in Great Britain. They continued making fine radio tubes, mostly for use in Europe until the Post WW-2 Hi-Fi boom hit in the 1950s and audio began to be big business. Big beam-power & pentode business like the 6L6 by R.C.A. and Tung-Sol's 6550 in the U.S. and the EL-34 in Europe. Well M&O was not one to be left behind, so they sat down and carefully designed three, direct drop-in competitors for all three of the new high-power audio outputs. These were of course the KT-66 for the R.C.A. 6L6, the KT-77 for the EL-34, and the KT-88 to compete with Tung-Sols 6550. These tubes are some of the most suave, rich, classy pentodes ever made period. They have the real-thing greatness that is so rare these days. It has offended me for 14 years that the Chinese, Russians and their American distributors have had the audacity to put the designation KT-66, 77, & 88 on any and all of the JUNK that came down the pike! And, by how many members of the U.S. audiophile press were and still are to this day, standing in line to glorify the emperor's new clothes. For the entire first half of this century, the very finest minds in the world were applied to making these tubes, starting with Thomas Edison. To give you an example of what goes onto the making of these tubes let me relate an event that happened a couple of years ago. I had a visitor from Germany who is a super sharp chemist and hangs out with the aristocrat types in Europe. He is a member of the Royal Academy of Science but doesn't know, or care much, about tubes or audio. So, he is sitting in my living room having coffee and he looks down at some tubes lying around and launches off about how one of his elderly friends at the Royal Academy used to be one of the chief chemists at M & O. They used to talk about corporate culture, trade secrets and how closely guarded many of the chemical & metallurgical processes were, as they had been worked out over the proceeding half-century. He mentioned that the old guard, Edison & Marconi, (and the next generation after) set the example of guarding important formulas & processes because of the patent wars they had fought all their lives. Even at that, he said with all of the equipment in front of you and everything running well, that the ticklish nature of making the finest tubes (inconsistencies in raw materials etc.) is more like cooking than anything else and they knew that someone without their experience could never make tubes quite the same.
Well all I can say is that these guys had it because it is now 1999 and damn near of all of the hundreds of real KT-88s, 77s & 66s I have distributed over the last 6 years are still making sweet music for their purchasers! This includes 20 KT-88s that run in a pair of Jadis JA-200s that were tubed up in 1995. Not only have they not missed a single beat but they still all measure and look almost NEW! I have had my own personal set of 4 for 16 years and they are still perfect. M & O made these tubes from 1957 until 1976 or so and then re-introduced them in 1982. Unfortunately these later ones were, of course, not up to the previous production quality, and it was all over for good in 1988.
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SIEMENS
Siemens & Halske was a quality German tube manufacturer from way back. They made an excellent 12 volt series of tubes (12AX7, etc.) but nothing that special. However those of us that go back 20 or 30 years with the 6DJ8 know that when it comes to frame grid tubes (6DJ8, 6922, 7308), Siemens really shines and has always been one of the very best. This is not surprising, as that part of the world (Germany & Holland) produces some of the world's finest machinists. And that is what you need because the 6DJ8 tube uses a very tightly strung tungsten grid wire that is 0.00029 inches in diameter! This is the smallest tungsten wire that can be drawn consistently and is not even visible to the eye without a close look! But this was not new to Siemens as they had been experimenting and producing a tube, which was a predecessor to the frame grid back in 1926, it was the OCK tube, developed for undersea cable amplifiers. Well, what does all this experience and intrinsic skill give your music? A very quiet, smooth and neutral tube that has as much or more mid and high end detail as anything else ever made. The Siemens are particularly good at being free from noise & mic. and staying that way for a good long time. (I am talking about early production, not the mid- and late- 70s stuff) The only problem I have ever heard voiced about a Siemens 6-volt tubes would be in a system that was already too far on the light side and really needed a richer tube.
R.C.A.
Centered in Harrison New Jersey on the sight of Thomas Edison's original lamp works and not too far from Menlo Park where his "invention factory" started it all, R.C.A was the backbone of the receiving tube industry in the U.S. R.C.A. was a very well run corporation from the beginning, and was in many ways the cornerstone for tube manufacturing worldwide. I say this because they developed and (if by no other means than sheer volume), standardized most of the basing system worldwide.
Consistency is an R.C.A. herald and this consistency showed in their tubes all the way from the 1920s to the 1970s! R.C.A. tubes have an accuracy that is never hard, just accurate! Tonally the mini's, 12AX7, etc. seem to be just a hair on the softer side of a Telefunken if you could give them any kind of label at all. The power tubes from the 6L6 to the 845 also have this broad balance from top to bottom with all the natural detail and sweetness of the real thing. R.C.A. never tooled up for the 6DJ8 so any such tube labeled as such was made by someone else. Unfortunately the entire R.C.A. receiving tube division was liquidated in a 12 day auction during the fall of 1976, this basically broke the back of the tube manufacturing industry (and the supporting industries) in the U.S.A.
Western Electric
The mother of all Electronics Companies. Western Electric always did a pretty good job of documenting its activities, & here we see the setting of the stage upon which some of the finest electron tubes ever to be made would appear. By it's 50th anniversary (1919), Western Electric had already been making telephone repeater tubes for 5 years. 1919 was also the year the first large-scale public address system utilizing tube amplification was demonstrated. (Peter Jensen was also doing systems but at a much smaller scale.) The event was New York's "Victory Day" celebration after WW-1. This system used 113 loudspeakers and approximately 66 tubes! Eighty-five years later thousands of Western Electric tubes & speakers still make beautiful music.
TUNG-SOL
Tung-Sol was an old hand at electron tubes and such. Starting in 1907 they developed the first successful electric headlamp for cars, they followed that in 1913 with the two filament high and low beam headlight in a single bulb. They also developed the flashing turn signal, and made that little thing that goes click, click under the dashboard for almost every American car until the 1970's, yes, we all grew up listening to Tung-Sol. In the 1920's they entered the electronics field and applied their basic company policy "make the best that can be made." They were leaders along with R.C.A. in the development of sophisticated, statistical quality control systems and one of the greatest qualities of Tung-Sol tubes to this day is consistency!
Tung-Sol's greatest contribution to the world of audio was the 6550, conceived and developed for Hi-Fi and introduced in 1955 this tube is still powering many of the world's greatest sound systems 45 years later! Tung-Sol was a privately held company and was run like a laboratory this gave T-S tubes some of the best metallurgy and chemistry that has ever been pulled off in actual production. Tough as nails and as sweet as tupelo honey, all Tung-Sol tubes are as accurate, neutral and dynamic as you could ask for, very much like a Telefunken which is what they remind me of.
SYLVANIA
Sylvania electronics of Emporium, Pennsylvania was the second largest receiving tube manufacturer and R.C.A's arch rival. As with most of the "New Jersey" bunch, Sylvania got its start in the light bulb business. Yes it was the light bulb manufacturers who had the skills and experience in glasswork, metallurgy & high vacuum that are needed to make a fine tube. Like the rest of the NJ bunch, Sylvania sought out and retained the most skilled men and women available, including former Edison employees. They also lured away R.C.A.'s chief tube engineer of seven years, Roger T. Wise in 1927. This was a real jewel in Sylvania's crown, and was reportedly announced with much fanfare. It's hard to say why he did it for sure, but he moved out to Emporium and built a beautiful house 5 months before he took up his post at Sylvania which makes me think that part of the reason for the change was he just wanted to get out of the smoke and clatter of NJ to start his new family. He was having his first child and Sylvania's tube plant was nestled in the beautiful, wooded, rolling hills outside Emporium, PA, a point they stressed in their recruiting efforts. Another one of Sylvania's main philosophies was to start with the highest quality materials possible, and they were very good at it. They were so good that by 1948, they were the largest supplier of getters, wire and other internal tube components in the industry. Their getters were so good that most major tube manufacturers in America used them and their wire was good enough to be used extensively in Western Electric tubes! This emphasis on material and employees showed in the final product to. Even to the casual observer, Sylvania tubes manufactured during the golden years (1920's-1950's) simply exude an intrinsic beauty with their large, sweeping, mirror-finish getters and often, optical-quality micas. In certain tube types, the early Sylvania simply blows away everything else. Unfortunately, good things often don't last and Sylvania was one of those. The tooling held out pretty good up until the late 70's maybe even the 80's but the chemistry and intrinsic quality of the entire package went to hell in the late 50's. Of course, some 96 percent or so of what is out there for sale today is the horrid sounding mil. spec. Phillips branded stuff from the 70's and 80's but you won't have to worry about that here.
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thanks PapaT.
nice read, to know all about tube History and its genealogy :)
(di kita nakita sa HFS, went saturday...)
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thanks PapaT.
nice read, to know all about tube History and its genealogy :)
(di kita nakita sa HFS, went saturday...)
was there at the last few hours of sunday, Edrel gave me a box full of NOS tubes to play around with...:)
what scares me is that there are rebranders out there.....;)
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these tubes came from Edrel, part of the box of tubes he gave me at the last Audio show in Dusit....
PCC84....i plan to make a Conrad JOHNSON ART clone using 10 of these tubes....
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5177_zpsc7b0ce3d.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5177_zpsc7b0ce3d.jpg.html)
ECC189....another member of the 6dj8 family of tubes...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_5176_zps463b4297.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/leoman53/media/IMG_5176_zps463b4297.jpg.html)
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uso talaga ang give aways....
sa akin me nagregalo ng isang pares ng GU-50 tubes with sockets.....
a fellow tube diy'er gave those to me, tinutulungan ko syang magbuo ng sarile nyan mga amps...
another tube to try hopefully this year.......;)
(http://ussr-tubes.com/images/GU50.jpg)
(http://tubes-store.com/images/gu50_socket_01_xl.jpg)
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matched pairs and quads of KT88's are now available at......http://epektos.com/catalog/90270c5d-17be-428d-8204-30703444af81.aspx
(http://epektos.com/images/productimages/jjkt88quad.jpg)
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matched pairs and quads of KT88's are now available at......http://epektos.com/catalog/90270c5d-17be-428d-8204-30703444af81.aspx
(http://epektos.com/images/productimages/jjkt88quad.jpg)
sir tony new project na naman for 2015.... ^-^
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:D
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:D
na email ko na sir si david pwede ako bigyan ng replacement for my AN speaker 1/2 price yung offer niya kaya lang on vacation sila sa feb. 10 pa yung open ng store nila.... ^-^ pwede na rin sir maganda na yung offer.. ^-^
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aba good news yan....:D
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matched pairs and quads of KT88's are now available at......http://epektos.com/catalog/90270c5d-17be-428d-8204-30703444af81.aspx
(http://epektos.com/images/productimages/jjkt88quad.jpg)
aba ok, just wondering kung malaki difference from Shuguang.
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the difference is Shuguang is made in china, while this JJ's are made in the Slavic states in eastern europe...
both are as good as new production tubes can be... ;)
it also good that they were able to lower the price, about two years ago when i inquired from epektos, they quoted at price of 3200 pesos a pop...
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the difference is Shuguang is made in china, while this JJ's are made in the Slavic states in eastern europe...
both are as good as new production tubes can be... ;)
it also good that they were able to lower the price, about two years ago when i inquired from epektos, they quoted at price of 3200 pesos a pop...
thanks Sir Tony, kukupit muna ulit ako sa sweldo ko para may pambili :) :).
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i miss the 16kt88 pp amp build......sana me magpagawa noon....;)
)
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how to spot NOS tubes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d-cZB7DgA
new production...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjVvTRP1h0
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beware of fakes....fakes tubes are everywhere....another reason why i like teeve toobs.....
ww.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm
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these are the tubes that can give the 6L6GC, EL34, 6550, kt 88, kt 120 and even the kt 150 a run for the money....
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p180x540/10356138_951835591504742_5823723220864655248_n.jpg?oh=4e30389311737fb9b81554cc3edb517a&oe=55C269F1)
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these are the tubes that can give the 6L6GC, EL34, 6550, kt 88, kt 120 and even the kt 150 a run for the money....
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p180x540/10356138_951835591504742_5823723220864655248_n.jpg?oh=4e30389311737fb9b81554cc3edb517a&oe=55C269F1)
pag-usapan natin yan Sir Tony pag pasyal ko sa inyo paghatid ko nung DNY40 :D :D :D
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sure.....;)
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A very sad day for me :'( My very good sounding 5751 went kaput :'( :'( :'(...... Kaya pala sobrang ganda binigay nyang SQ sakin kagabi kala ko tuloy na totally burn in na mga gears na ginamit ko.......Sana maka hanap pa ulit ng kaparis yung isa nito!!!
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/IMG_20150918_123348_zpsxsphvkk4.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/IMG_20150918_123348_zpsxsphvkk4.jpg.html)
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Jun, single or matched pair? If singles, I can lend you a few since my AMP uses singles.
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pair ang gamit nitong amp ko sir e. Sayang talaga ito ang ganda pa naman ng matching nya sa amp sana maka hanap ulit ng katulad!
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A very sad day for me :'( My very good sounding 5751 went kaput :'( :'( :'(...... Kaya pala sobrang ganda binigay nyang SQ sakin kagabi kala ko tuloy na totally burn in na mga gears na ginamit ko.......Sana maka hanap pa ulit ng kaparis yung isa nito!!!
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b622/remington0624/IMG_20150918_123348_zpsxsphvkk4.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/remington0624/media/IMG_20150918_123348_zpsxsphvkk4.jpg.html)
one downside to rolling, glass to metal seals can degrade each time you pull out and plug in a tube...
you tube gassed out...happened also to an ef86, took 3 days to completely gass out...
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try out the 6201's Gerry has them, he can demo those tubes for you and decide....
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thanks master I'll try to contact sir jerry.
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not jerry, Gerry Sta Maria....
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wrong spelling master hehehe gerry sta. maria nga.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-1-pair-RCA-black-plate-5751-12AX7-ECC83-tube-for-tubes-amplifier-/251629877659?hash=item3a964f399b
Post office is very reliable already - medyo matagal nga lang nang konti (about 1 month). When paying customs duties and taxes, just say the tubes are TV tubes. There are cheaper and pricier 5751 tubes on other Ebay auctions though.