PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Setting Up => Topic started by: praktikal on Jun 06, 2007 at 05:03 PM
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Guys, paalalay naman po sa aking binabalak. ;D
Gusto ko rin sana maka experience ng Suave na tunog. Hanap ko yung tipong kahit mahina lang ang volume e feel mo pa rin. Mababaw lang po ang bulsa ko pero "malalim ang tenga" abot hanggang dibdib ;D. Simple setup lang naman hanap ko. Pwede na ba amp and a pair of floorstander? Ano ba kailangan kong amp kase nalilito ako sa integrated at power amp?
TIA po.
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Yung integrated me volume control. Yung power amp, wala.
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Yung integrated me volume control. Yung power amp, wala.
ok, salamat. so most likely integrated ang tatargetin ko. mga magkano nga pala mga ganung amp to drive say, an evo2 40? good amps need no equalizer, right?
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Guys, paalalay naman po sa aking binabalak. ;D
Gusto ko rin sana maka experience ng Suave na tunog. Hanap ko yung tipong kahit mahina lang ang volume e feel mo pa rin. Mababaw lang po ang bulsa ko pero "malalim ang tenga" abot hanggang dibdib ;D. Simple setup lang naman hanap ko. Pwede na ba amp and a pair of floorstander? Ano ba kailangan kong amp kase nalilito ako sa integrated at power amp?
TIA po.
san ka ba located chief, si sir accastil ang makakatulong sa yu,sya aking guru d2
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work-makati
hauz-laguna
tnx
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Di ako updated sa prices e.
From 2k (T-amp) up.
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ok lang din pala sa akin 2ndhand from a fellow na maingat sa gamit. i've heard hard to drive ang mga wharfs so meaning need ko malakas na amp? sa pure stereo setup ba ilang wattage normally ang kelangan to drive a floorstanders like evo2 40 (150W with 50-300w recommended amp power)?
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of course, the evo2 is just an example. your suggestions ay talagang welcome na welcome po. sabi nyo nga there are BS outhere that performs better than FS. basta hanap ko sana ung tipong no need na for a sub. simple yet distinct sounding sana. tnx
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Malakas na amp kung malakas ka ring magpatugtog or mababa sensitivity ng speakers.
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Malakas na amp kung malakas ka ring magpatugtog or mababa sensitivity ng speakers.
good morning, po. para sa akin more on SQ ako than SPL, just that gusto ko rin na may gapang ang lows without using a sub. or pwede nga rin i-consider ang BS with a sub that blends well kung mahihirapan akong makahanap ng FS & amp na affordable that delivers the "Suave" na hinahanap ko. ops, parang ang gulo ko ata, hehe...
i would appreciate if you can give me some sample combos na pwede kung pagaralan/consider. thanks a lot.
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Why not go to audio shops and have a listen. Since you work in Makati, you can visit shops in Park Square 1 (5th Ave, Spectra, Sound Dimension), Greenbelt 1 (Architectural Audio) Makati Cinema Square (Watt Hifi, Toyz) and the Home Theater @ Tordesillas.
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salamat bumblebee. good idea, i'll do that, hanap lang ko time.
malaking tulong sana sa akin yung suggestions from end-users dito kase sa showroom naman medyo bias eh (di lahat ha). :)
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it would help if you could share your budgets so the guys here can give usefull suggestion on gears to get...
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Guys, paalalay naman po sa aking binabalak. ;D
Gusto ko rin sana maka experience ng Suave na tunog. Hanap ko yung tipong kahit mahina lang ang volume e feel mo pa rin. Mababaw lang po ang bulsa ko pero "malalim ang tenga" abot hanggang dibdib ;D. Simple setup lang naman hanap ko. Pwede na ba amp and a pair of floorstander? Ano ba kailangan kong amp kase nalilito ako sa integrated at power amp?
TIA po.
I maybe able to help you. Just give me a budget for all the components you need (total budget) and I will give you a suggestion. All will be used items on very good condition. Please also state your music preference and size of your room.
You could furnish me your contact number so I could call you to give you an advice.
edwin
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uy,salamat edwin.
better dito muna seguro tayo magcommunicate para mabigyan din idea ang ibang newbies. hayaan ko ng maiwan sa uso HT ko kase mas more on music ang type ko ngayon.
music: jazz, and a bit of everything ;D
area: 4.5 x 6m
budget: 20k (nagpapatawa ba ako? hehe or possible 'to)
current setup:
BS: b&w dm302 (bitin sa base kaya napipilitan akong alalayan ng DQ sub kaso "hilaw")
AVR: Onkyo 444 (prologic)
DVD: Philips
Sub: DQ12
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Makitanong lang po'. ::) ::)
ano ba preferences mo purely music lang ba or you will go into hometheater. I would suggest. For music only ok yang int. amp. pero with movies go for AVR . Wharf medyo mahirap nga e-drive like Evo2 40. low SPL 89db and 6 ohms. The amps Int. or AVR I would recommend HK or Denon, Yamaha might have problems though rated 4-8ohms. Most of my friends sold thier yami after a while due clippings. ;D ;D
Specifications:
Bass Driver 1x 170mm
Mid Driver 1x 170mm
Soft Dome Tweeter 1x 25mm
Nominal Impedance 6 Ohms
Frequency Response 30Hz - 44kHz
SPL 1W @ 1m 89dB
Max peak SPL 112dB
System Fb 30Hz
Crossover Frequencies 160Hz. 2.2kHz
Dimensions H x W x D (mm) 1050 x 229 x 403
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so far kase oks naman sa kids yung HT setup ko (at sila naman na ang nagmamayari :()
now, try ko naman mag focus on audio using FS. para sa akin HK or Denon nga pwede ko i-consider but question is (before i audition sa showrooms), kaya bang tapatan ng 2 AVRs na ito ang entry-level na int.amp? ganda kase tingnan mga FS eh, hehe.
tnx ha.
Makitanong lang po'. ::) ::)
ano ba preferences mo purely music lang ba or you will go into hometheater. I would suggest. For music only ok yang int. amp. pero with movies go for AVR . Wharf medyo mahirap nga e-drive like Evo2 40. low SPL 89db and 6 ohms. The amps Int. or AVR I would recommend HK or Denon, Yamaha might have problems though rated 4-8ohms. Most of my friends sold thier yami after a while due clippings. ;D ;D
Specifications:
Bass Driver 1x 170mm
Mid Driver 1x 170mm
Soft Dome Tweeter 1x 25mm
Nominal Impedance 6 Ohms
Frequency Response 30Hz - 44kHz
SPL 1W @ 1m 89dB
Max peak SPL 112dB
System Fb 30Hz
Crossover Frequencies 160Hz. 2.2kHz
Dimensions H x W x D (mm) 1050 x 229 x 403
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Napakingan ko na sa showroom ang Denon AVR and Int. malaki ang kaibahan nag dalawa. Int. mas malakas ang output power kisa AVr kahit na parihas sila ng wattage. Int walang ibang iniintindi kundi i-amplified yo signal galing sa source plus other function is input selector, whereas AVR maraming processing na ginagawa, maliban sa built-in amp for audio + video processing and other digital chips na kilangan ang power kaya limited ang output, that resulted into clipping if you drive hard. ;D ;D
I hope, I managed to give my point. I'm not a tech but experienced and going along with other knowlegable people in this field, also doing my homework when I build my system natuto rin ng ibang teknikalities but not an ekspert. :o :o
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sus, oo naman. anything na mababasa ko dito ay may value. tnx man. "dedicated" 'ika nga. isa pa lahat na ata ng mga bagong labas na AVRs ay matakaw sa power. sa palagay mo kaya, mga magkano aabutin kung magsetup ako ng isang evo2 40 (or better &/or cheaper) + int. amp (what brand)?
Options:
a) Bnew:
b) Used:
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I would suggest 1. Denon 2. HK 3. Onkyo (audition them if possible with your speakers para masaya). ;D ;D Other option why not go for separates, this set-up you have more options to upgrade either your preamp or ams in the future. ::) ::)
nasa sayo ang desisyon. . 8) 8)
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tnx, but going the seps way means bulsa ko dapat mala-highway. ;D ;D ;D ::)
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uy,salamat edwin.
better dito muna seguro tayo magcommunicate para mabigyan din idea ang ibang newbies. hayaan ko ng maiwan sa uso HT ko kase mas more on music ang type ko ngayon.
music: jazz, and a bit of everything ;D
area: 4.5 x 6m
budget: 20k (nagpapatawa ba ako? hehe or possible 'to)
current setup:
BS: b&w dm302 (bitin sa base kaya napipilitan akong alalayan ng DQ sub kaso "hilaw")
AVR: Onkyo 444 (prologic)
DVD: Philips
Sub: DQ12
The B&W speaker is good and you could keep it so that you could put your budget on your amp, source (cd player) and cables. Don't expect much on a bookshelf speaker but also don't be amazed on how big a bookshelf speaker could sound if properly set-up with good components.
The B&W have a high sensitivity of 92db (can paly loud with less wattage) but with a tricky impedance curve that could dip to 4ohms (so AVR need not apply). So base on this, it means that you could use a 35 to 50 watter integrated ampwatter but with a high current or beefy power supply design to give your B&W the speed, control and more body on the bass. Amplifier is not always about power but how refine/musical it is. I better listen to soft musical music than a loud irritatin noise ;).
Yeah by the way, is the Php20K is just for an integrated amp?
edwin
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Rotel also has to be considered in your list. ;D ;D Try to look for with phono input so in the future, when you add TTable you don't have to worry unless you want use separate phono preamp. ::) 8)
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Rotel also has to be considered in your list. ;D ;D Try to look for with phono input so in the future, when you add TTable you don't have to worry unless you want use separate phono preamp. ::) 8)
Kailangan muna yata one at a time dahil kung limited ang budget niya, magiging mas lalong limited din ang choices niya to look for a good amp with a phono input. The best first is to look for an good amp for him to start his audio venture.
Just my 2 cents ;). No flames intended :D.
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Kailangan muna yata one at a time dahil kung limited ang budget niya, magiging mas lalong limited din ang choices niya to look for a good amp with a phono input. The best first is to look for an good amp for him to start his audio venture.
Just my 2 cents ;). No flames intended :D.
Sa akin lang, if he got a good deal in amp much better if it has phono input for future expansion. :D laang ika nga ;)
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salamat edwin & AJ. pareho kayong may points. i'll consider both.
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edwin, assuming na gagamitin ko ang b&w ko, anong amp ang masuggest mo na less than 20k? tnx
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NAD 325bee P14k si Spectral Park Square
DIY Belden 89259 Cable IC P1k si KPY555 ang distbtr.
DTX 4.15 15-inch subwoofer P5.6k by DAI-ICHI May group sila sa Speaker Forum
Used Dedicated Cd player 2nd hand
You need warm sounding integrated para sa SWAVE SQ gusto mo
tapus keep your B&W BS maganda yan sa mga Jazz forget all about
FS speaker kahit triple the price of your budget you cannot get deep
bass o yung gapang n sinasabi mo subwoofer lang paraan dyan.
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NAD 325bee P14k si Spectral Park Square
DIY Belden 89259 Cable IC P1k si KPY555 ang distbtr.
DTX 4.15 15-inch subwoofer P5.6k by DAI-ICHI May group sila sa Speaker Forum
Used Dedicated Cd player 2nd hand
You need warm sounding integrated para sa SWAVE SQ gusto mo
tapus keep your B&W BS maganda yan sa mga Jazz forget all about
FS speaker kahit triple the price of your budget you cannot get deep
bass o yung gapang n sinasabi mo subwoofer lang paraan dyan.
make sense. how'd you compare NAD 325bee with HK970 (25k) wala kase akong idea sa strength ng bawat isa at kung minsan (or madalas?) kase specs are full of ...ewan. iba pa rin talaga ang actual at sa mga ka-pdvd na exposed. HK & NAD alin kaya ang gigising sa b&w ko? tia
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in the past seven i've own Hk Avr25 75watts rms high power sya nung time na halus wala pa akong na audition na mga dedicated o hi-end sa tingin eto na ok na sa akin HK receivers pero base sa mga internet reviews na mga two channel audio amplifier especially the budget side NAD try to search audioasylum.com nad 320bee 50watts rms hard to beat so I'll take my chance to bought without auditioning wow mayrun papalang gaganda pa sa HK mas mura refinement sound I mean sa akin yung Hk smooth, warm may sipa sa ilalim, pero iba yung Nad 50watts lang mas smooth grainless and highs mas malawak o soundstage at yung bass nya mas control i mean not boomy its tight bass, try to audition with your own ears isa ang spectral ang dealer nung Hk at Nad. Im not bashing hk for SQ pero hindi talaga cla makalapit sa NAD siguro isa rin yung simple straight circuit path ng signal sa design. base sa specs HK receivers or integrated amp nila hanggang 4ohms lang ang Nad it can take a low impedance of 2ohms so mas high current sya.
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sabi nung nakausap ko sa spectra, mas warm daw ang NAD kesa HK kaso lang if you want (daw) some extra punch, HK ang lamang. of course, audition pa rin.
some more ideas please.... gurus...
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If you want to save big bucks and you're adventurous enough. You can also take the vintage route (read: surplus ;D). If you're lucky, you might chance upon a real gem. Try to visit the surplus amp thread. ;)
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If you want to save big bucks and you're adventurous enough. You can also take the vintage route (read: surplus ;D). If you're lucky, you might chance upon a real gem. Try to visit the surplus amp thread. ;)
I agree ;D. Some of these amps are way better than the newer ones being sold
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korekek.
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Another route of journey in stereo set-up. . ::) ::) Vintage or Tubes 8) 8)
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If you want to save big bucks and you're adventurous enough. You can also take the vintage route (read: surplus ;D). If you're lucky, you might chance upon a real gem. Try to visit the surplus amp thread. ;)
sir jairus,
baka pwede sama ako next time na punta kayo sa surplus shops? :)
chocovim
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Another route of journey in stereo set-up. . ::) ::) Vintage or Tubes 8) 8)
since, di naman ako nagmamadali, pasok lahat ng ideas nyo. actually, Tubes talaga target ko kaso di kayang sabayan ng bulsa ko ang pangarap ko, but malay natin, biglang may magbenta... hehe.
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sir jairus,
baka pwede sama ako next time na punta kayo sa surplus shops? :)
chocovim
Chocovim,
Sure bro, sched natin yan. tHowever, the last time I've been to pier several months ago, there were no new arrivals. I just don't know now.
Praktikal,
Just take your time. With a little patience, some real good deals come up in the buy & sell section from time to time.
Also, don't believe all the hype about which brand is better sounding. You are the only one who can decide which is better for you. So it all boils down again to three things: audition, audition, audition ;D
Enjoy the hunt and don't forget to ;)enjoy the music, this is what this hobby is all about.
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sige sir,
hirap kasi pumunta dun na walang kasamang may alam sa vintage gears eh. :)
ty
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salamat Jairus.
tatandaan ko yang "AAA" (at dapat rechargeable). ;D ;D ;D
i don't need some "kaboom", basta suave lang. so perhaps malaking tulong sa akin ang mga suggestions kung anong brand/model ang pwede kong abangan sa B&S section at sa surplusan. at least i have an eye na on integrated. separates would be too much na seguro. a "one man army", int amp would be enough. but then again, baka may makita akong super bargain na seps, why not. later na ang hunt for speaker since i still have with me an award winner 302. ;D Sa ngayon, focus muna ako sa itch ko from insect bites at later na lang ang itch for speakers... ;D ;D ;D
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sir jairus baka naman pwede rin akong sumama!! ;D noon ko pa gustong pumunta nga lang ala akong alam sa mga gears!! baka lukuhin lang ako dun!! >:(
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guys, just came out, wat u think?
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.audio-heritage.jp%2fSONY-ESPRIT%2famp%2fta-f333esx.html
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guys, just came out, wat u think?
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.audio-heritage.jp%2fSONY-ESPRIT%2famp%2fta-f333esx.html
That's a good sounding amp. Try to read through the pages of the surplus amp thread. There's a link there of the Niji List. This is a listing of the top of the line (TOTL) models in Japan in the 70s and 80s. This is a good reference before you go bargain hunting at Pier.
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up ko lang...
leaning towards Tubes na po tayo mga peeps. used or bnew oks sa akin, need help please. no rush naman but pointers for my hunt is highly appreciated. hope to hear more inputs from T-peeps here.
;)
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The 302's is a very good speaker system to build your system around with. Had them for 5 years before I traded them in. I used the ff amps to power them:
Pioneer integrated
Adcom power amp
Classe power amp
TS Audio SET Tube integrated.
among all the amps that I used the best synergy was with the TS Audio Tube integrated wired with VDH and fronted by a tube digital front end. The mids and highs were very good not to mention the pinpoint localization, precise imaging and very good coherence for such a small speaker. The amp pumped out 9 watts only but I was able to get the desired spl in my medium sized room due to the high sensitivity spec of the 302's. The combination in my opinion beats out speakers that cost 2 or 3 times the price of the 302's but the only downside was that the bass response rolled off rapidly below 80hz so if you are into rock music played at chest pounding levels then you would need to add reinforcement in the bass area through a sub or just upgrade to larger speakers. Adding a sub is easier said than done because if you get this wrong you will end up with a bass note that seems to come from another planet altogether. Stay away from big bass reflex type of subs like the DTX4.15. It wont match the speed and pace of the 302's. Leave those for the HT crowd. Try to look for subs that employ a sealed box design and with a long throw driver that is 8 to 10 inches in diameter. a continously variable phase control (not switch) is a good tool for integration with the 302's. I got very good results from a Tannoy Mercury Sub10 matched with the 302's.
Build your system step by step. you may not be able to complete it at one go due to your limited budget but if you manage to complete your setup with the gears that are in complete synergy with the rest of the system then the end result will be worth it and might be more cost effective in the long run.
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The 302's is a very good speaker system to build your system around with. Had them for 5 years before I traded them in. I used the ff amps to power them:
Pioneer integrated
Adcom power amp
Classe power amp
TS Audio SET Tube integrated.
among all the amps that I used the best synergy was with the TS Audio Tube integrated wired with VDH and fronted by a tube digital front end. The mids and highs were very good not to mention the pinpoint localization, precise imaging and very good coherence for such a small speaker. The amp pumped out 9 watts only but I was able to get the desired spl in my medium sized room due to the high sensitivity spec of the 302's. The combination in my opinion beats out speakers that cost 2 or 3 times the price of the 302's but the only downside was that the bass response rolled off rapidly below 80hz so if you are into rock music played at chest pounding levels then you would need to add reinforcement in the bass area through a sub or just upgrade to larger speakers. Adding a sub is easier said than done because if you get this wrong you will end up with a bass note that seems to come from another planet altogether. Stay away from big bass reflex type of subs like the DTX4.15. It wont match the speed and pace of the 302's. Leave those for the HT crowd. Try to look for subs that employ a sealed box design and with a long throw driver that is 8 to 10 inches in diameter. a continously variable phase control (not switch) is a good tool for integration with the 302's. I got very good results from a Tannoy Mercury Sub10 matched with the 302's.
Build your system step by step. you may not be able to complete it at one go due to your limited budget but if you manage to complete your setup with the gears that are in complete synergy with the rest of the system then the end result will be worth it and might be more cost effective in the long run.
thanks.
i'll focus on the int amp first and see (hear) the difference. am having second thought on Tubes since i have a 5 year old "super kulit" son. might consider SS na lang, tama ba? still, Tubes+FS is my ultimate goal. 302's clarity to reproduce sound is there already but kahit na anong amp ang gagamitin ko bitin pa rin sa lalim. ipon ipon muna ako for a set of floorstanders instead of acquiring a new sub for the 302 (that is after my int amp of course).
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dont get me wrong...the 302's sound very good with S/S amps as well. its just that I liked it even better with tubes albeit with lower wattage. If you want to unload your 302's in the near future let me be the first in line. In retrospect I kinda miss the sound of those minimonitors. good luck on your quest :)
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dont get me wrong...the 302's sound very good with S/S amps as well. its just that I liked it even better with tubes albeit with lower wattage. If you want to unload your 302's in the near future let me be the first in line. In retrospect I kinda miss the sound of those minimonitors. good luck on your quest :)
hehehe... unload? hmmm... thanks again.
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i think you should audition first tube amps. malay mo magustuhan mo. there are shops that sell custom made tube amps that won't break the bank. i got mine from amx but there are others . if you want to audition one just pm me, i too live at laguna.
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i think you should audition first tube amps. malay mo magustuhan mo. there are shops that sell custom made tube amps that won't break the bank. i got mine from amx but there are others . if you want to audition one just pm me, i too live at laguna.
how long have you been using your tubes? sulit ba?
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for me sulit kasi i like the sound better than my previous solidstate amp. mga almost a year na din sa akin amp ko, although i am only using a tube preamp nowadays.
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just to add on lang, before buying brand new solid state integrated amps do audition some tube amps first to avoid sars.
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thanks.
i'll focus on the int amp first and see (hear) the difference. am having second thought on Tubes since i have a 5 year old "super kulit" son. might consider SS na lang, tama ba? still, Tubes+FS is my ultimate goal. 302's clarity to reproduce sound is there already but kahit na anong amp ang gagamitin ko bitin pa rin sa lalim. ipon ipon muna ako for a set of floorstanders instead of acquiring a new sub for the 302 (that is after my int amp of course).
I have two hyperactive daughters, ages 6 and 3, and both of them are quite familiar with tube amps (I have been using both SET and vintage tube amps even before they both were born ;) ), as they also use my audio system to listen to their music (my eldest daughter even knows how to operate my main system) As long as you teach them properly, owning a tube amplifier should not be a problem.
Bitin sa lalim? don't blame the amp, it's the speakers that you should focus on - especially if you use bookshelves. But there are also floorstanders that don't go deep... they may have the mid-bass hump and punch, but don't have the depth and roundness of the tone.
Hope this helps and good luck on your quest
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dont get me wrong...the 302's sound very good with S/S amps as well. its just that I liked it even better with tubes albeit with lower wattage. If you want to unload your 302's in the near future let me be the first in line. In retrospect I kinda miss the sound of those minimonitors. good luck on your quest :)
Hec i was the one who bought your CC3. :)
I still have my 302 and has no plans of selling it. Baka yun CC3 gusto mo i buy back mo na lang nag 2 channel na lang ako. :) ;D
praktikal
Try mo muna yun speaker position baka dun yun problem wala gastos dyan. Sa tube amp try mo yun may el84 output tube nasa 12-15 watter sufficient na yang ganyan power to drive the 302's. Vintage tube amp din gamit ko.
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Hec i was the one who bought your CC3. :)
I still have my 302 and has no plans of selling it. Baka yun CC3 gusto mo i buy back mo na lang nag 2 channel na lang ako. :) ;D
Bro I remember the talk we had before regarding the 302. Its one of those speakers that looks bland and plain but when you hear it sing you will have to spend so much more to replicate its qualities in other speakers brands. Thanks for the offer bro but im more into 2 channel these days. parang naging phase lang yung HT appeal for me :)
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<rony> -Try mo muna yun speaker position baka dun yun problem wala gastos dyan.
nasubukan ko na pero wala talagang mapipiga sa 5incher driver eh. right now naka 6ft ang pagitan ng 2 speakers equal sa sweetspot. (tama ba 'tong mga pinagsasabi ko ;D ;D ;D)
<Jagner> -Bitin sa lalim? don't blame the amp, it's the speakers that you should focus on - especially if you use bookshelves. But there are also floorstanders that don't go deep... they may have the mid-bass hump and punch, but don't have the depth and roundness of the tone.
korek. speakers seem to be the culprit and yes you're right again na with a tight budget i don't think makaka avail ako ng FS na may deep/substantial bass, but i'm pretty sure na it'll satisfy my ears.
audition audition audition...
to avoid sars, i-tame ko na lang muna yung mga tenga ko ;D ;D ;D
... praktikal nga e, hehehe
teka, pag di ba tinamaan ng sars e ibig sabihin di sya trueblue pdvd member? ::)
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Try mong ilapit sa pader.
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thanks to all your inputs. i think mas gaganda ang tunog ng 302 ko once ilipat ko na sa bedroom. i'll hunt na lang for a pair of (BS or FS) speakers with bigger woofers to match my 6m x 4m listening room. no rush though... also, inaayos ko na rin ang acoustics. tatapalan ko lahat ng windows and doors to eliminate unwanted noise from outside. i'll post some pics once finished. papalitan ko na rin ng heavier curtains at maglagay ng mas malapad na carpet. wala naman ng echo but i think kelangan pa.
:)
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edwin, assuming na gagamitin ko ang b&w ko, anong amp ang masuggest mo na less than 20k? tnx
High end amplifiers (including speakers, cd players, etc) normally pagtumunog, labas lahat ang clarity or which is ever in the recording without sounding either irritating or bland, ika nga may refinement. Ang mga low end to some mid-end amps either labas ang kalansing pero matalas or irritating over time o kaya naman play safe at roll-off ang sound para itago ang gaspang ng tunog.
A good amp or a system as a whole should be able to play on low volume and you could still hear all the musical information and be emotionally involved and the more you increase the volume, the more you like what you hear.
This is very hard to accomplish if you have a beginner's system. Audio is a learning process and as you keep on listening to different set-ups, the more your standard will get going higher.
Low end equipment was designed in the first place on a very limited budget that although the design could be good, they normally used cheap components to cut cost.
So my advice, with your budget of Php20K, a used Rotel, NAD, Cambridge Audio, etc could be good enough but please, get somebody to tweak or upgrade the parts. You will be amazed that even these amps could sound very good once upgraded and could fight with a lot more expensive equipments. This is the beginning where you will hear things that you previously wasn't able to hear in the recording.
edwin