PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Sources => Audio Only Sources => Topic started by: timber715 on Sep 16, 2013 at 02:36 PM
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Not to start a debate or anything... Just want to share my soon to experience comparisons.
1. Wireworld Starlight
http://wireworldcable.com/products/127.html
2. Furutech GT2
http://www.furutech.com/2013/02/02/1718/
3. KingRex uCraft S
http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/kingrex/products-detail/en_US/671683/Unanimous_uCraft_S_USB_cable_
4. Wyred4sound dac2dsdse stock cable
5. Generic printer usb
I invite those who experienced other cables and found improvement or changes to the sonics of their systems.
Those who don't want to try, test or merely don't think this does anything but add cost, please stay away, this isn't for you...
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Uy interesting! >:D Ang natry ko lang dati wireworld ni mangboy pero wala ako alam pa nun. :-[
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Brader kapag ayaw mo na, bentang adik mo na sa kin ha? >:D
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Brader kapag ayaw mo na, bentang adik mo na sa kin ha? >:D
Hehehe, nabentang adik ko na nga yung wireworld pero di pa napick up eh... So included sya sa tests ko..
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Heard the uArt Y cable kanina... Impressive sya. Kaya lang di maiwan kasi yun ang gamit nya sa system eh...
http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/kingrex/products-detail/en_US/671272/Unanimous%20uArt%20Y%20USB%20cable
Together with U Power that supplies the 5volt to the dac...
http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/kingrex/products-detail/en_US/613014/Sealed_Lead_Acid_Power_Supply_Unit_
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Disclaimer ba ang tawag dito:
Those who don't want to try, test or merely don't think this does anything but add cost, please stay away, this isn't for you...
:D
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Kung asynchronous usb yung DAC, do we still need an exotic usb cable? Pwera lang kung bargain 75% off... ;D
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Disclaimer ba ang tawag dito:
:D
Hindi naman ;). I believe the usb cables is not for everyone. Systems that are very revealing usually do.
Yun eh para wag na sana haluan ng di naniniwala or ayaw maniwala, iwas debate pagdating sa "kung may effect ba o wala".
Regarding the effect naman, open for discussion kasi ibaiba ang magiging effect nya depending sa system...
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I'd like to share my experience again as I have already mentioned in one of the DAC threads here before.
My HRT Musicstreamer II DAC had a significantly improved sound quality after changing the CDR-King USB cable I was using to an Analysis Plus USB cable I loaned from my brother. The music sounded cleaner, less harsh, livelier and had more bottom end. It turns out that cheap, poorly made cables tend to degrade the sound quality of USB-powered DACS most likely due to the quality of the power wires and the soldering workmanship of the cable which might cause voltage drops and the like. All the USB powered DACs I've owned have been sensitive to the quality of the power source and I confirmed this by doing loop-back FR measurements using RTA in order to make a calibration profile for the DAC. The low quality cable introduced a slight sawtoothing in the frequency curve where the higher quality usb cables did not. Additionally, removing the APC Uninterrupted Power Supply which had a simulated sinewave output to the computer's Seasonic X-660 power supply unit also further improved the sound quality of the DAC as confirmed with a simple blind test with the help of a friend. Upon googling the issue, turns out that simulated sine wave UPS's aren't designed to be used with high efficiency computer PSU's with built-in line conditioning and active PFC and it seemed like the 5 volt rails to the USB ports in the motherboard were affected.
I eventually got myself a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable since the Analysis Plus USB cable was no longer available from the supplier and got similar results. 1's and 0's aside, I can't stress enough that a good quality cable is important for usb-powered DACs because of power delivery issues. Doesn't have to be expensive, as long as the quality is good IMO.
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I'd like to share my experience again as I have already mentioned in one of the DAC threads here before.
My HRT Musicstreamer II DAC had a significantly improved sound quality after changing the CDR-King USB cable I was using to an Analysis Plus USB cable I loaned from my brother. The music sounded cleaner, less harsh, livelier and had more bottom end. It turns out that cheap, poorly made cables tend to degrade the sound quality of USB-powered DACS most likely due to the quality of the power wires and the soldering workmanship of the cable. All the USB powered DACs I've owned have been sensitive to the quality of the power source and I confirmed this by doing loop-back FR measurements using RTA in order to make a calibration profile the DAC. The low quality cable introduced a slight sawtoothing in the frequency curve where the higher quality usb cables did not. Additionally, removing the APC Uninterrupted Power Supply which had a simulated sinewave output to the computer's Seasonic X-660 power supply unit also further improved the sound quality of the DAC as confirmed with a simple blind test with the help of a friend.
I eventually got myself a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable since the Analysis Plus USB cable was no longer available from the supplier and got similar results. I can't stress enough that a good quality cable is important for usb-powered DACs. Doesn't have to be expensive, as long as the quality is good IMO.
Thank you for your in depth share brader. Happy to hear your experience.
It might be funny but when I initially changed my usb cable, I found very little change. But as time passed I decided to reinstall my stock cable. That is when it hit me how much the change the cable made....
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Kung asynchronous usb yung DAC, do we still need an exotic usb cable? Pwera lang kung bargain 75% off... ;D
Doesn't need to be exotic, just better since asynchronous dacs need the info transfer to be more efficient than regular one.
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Good USB cables need the following:
1. Copper conductors with excellent purity.
2. The power & ground conductors are normally thicker in gage than the signal conductors
3. The signal conductors are twisted, while the power and ground are not.
4. Good insulation of conductors to prevent effect of the power/ground wire to the signal conductors. The trend nowadays is have separate insulated wire runs between the signal conductors and the power/ground wires
5. Braiding and drain wire is provided for optimum shielding
6. Excellent overall insulation.
7. High purity copper plug housing and contacts with gold plating.
OR probably matching the following USB cable materials:
Lightspeed USB cable by Light Harmonic
Conductors
Signal: 0.51 mm silver plated 99.9997% pure copper
Power: 0.6 mm 99.9997% pure copper
Connectors
USB-A: 30µ 99.9% Gold Plated A Grade Phosphor Bronze
USB-B: 30µ 99.9% Gold Plated A Grade Phosphor Bronze
Dielectric Construction
Layer 1: 0.55 mm Gas Injected Polytetrafluoroethylene
Layer 2: 0.08 mm Biaxially-oriented Polyethylene Terephthalate
Layer 3: 0.32 mm Gas Injected Tetrafluoroethylene
Layer 4: 0.08 mm Biaxially-oriented Polyethylene Terephthalate
Layer 5: 0.35 mm (+/- 0.1) Polyvinyl Chloride
Final dimensions: Square-shaped, 3.5 mm (+/- 0.1) X 5.0 mm (+/- 0.1)
Rated Bandwidth 10.083 Gbit/s
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Good USB cables need the following:
1. Copper conductors with excellent purity.
2. The power & ground conductors are normally thicker in gage than the signal conductors
3. The signal conductors are twisted, while the power and ground are not.
4. Good insulation of conductors to prevent effect of the power/ground wire to the signal conductors. The trend nowadays is have separate insulated wire runs between the signal conductors and the power/ground wires
5. Braiding and drain wire is provided for optimum shielding
6. Excellent overall insulation.
7. High purity copper plug housing and contacts with gold plating.
OR probably matching the following USB cable materials:
Lightspeed USB cable by Light Harmonic
Conductors
Signal: 0.51 mm silver plated 99.9997% pure copper
Power: 0.6 mm 99.9997% pure copper
Connectors
USB-A: 30µ 99.9% Gold Plated A Grade Phosphor Bronze
USB-B: 30µ 99.9% Gold Plated A Grade Phosphor Bronze
Dielectric Construction
Layer 1: 0.55 mm Gas Injected Polytetrafluoroethylene
Layer 2: 0.08 mm Biaxially-oriented Polyethylene Terephthalate
Layer 3: 0.32 mm Gas Injected Tetrafluoroethylene
Layer 4: 0.08 mm Biaxially-oriented Polyethylene Terephthalate
Layer 5: 0.35 mm (+/- 0.1) Polyvinyl Chloride
Final dimensions: Square-shaped, 3.5 mm (+/- 0.1) X 5.0 mm (+/- 0.1)
Rated Bandwidth 10.083 Gbit/s
Wow ang mahal pala nito! :o
Price: 0.8m = $999, 1.6m = $1,399, 3.8m = $1,999
(http://www.audiostream.com/images/8913lightspeed5.jpg)
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Wow ang mahal pala nito! :o
Price: 0.8m = $999, 1.6m = $1,399, 3.8m = $1,999
(http://www.audiostream.com/images/8913lightspeed5.jpg)
Light harmonix yan brader eh..... Bagay yan sa da vinci dac nila.
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so where to buy decent usb cables locally?
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Post muna tayo ng pictures...
Wireworld Starlight... Nasa box na, pero buksan ko tonight para palitan ng picture
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zpsb3d4b8f9.jpg)
Furutech GT2
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zps3b360ae2.jpg)
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zps12b89f06.jpg)
KingRex uCraft S
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zpsf294f10b.jpg)
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zps1bf1540c.jpg)
Construction, all is well built and should stand the test of time. The GT2 is a bit sturdier than the Starlight but not very far, the uCraft S on the otherhand uses machined aluminum for the connectors. Not only are these stronger but they really look very good.
But for what its worth, these must perform. Durability is hardly an issue since it only gets connected and disconnected several times in its lifetime.
I do not like to be ahead of my test but I do know the KingRex cables are made of wireworld cables that are cryo treated and tweaked. I expect this to be better but that is subjective to one's system and preference....
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so where to buy decent usb cables locally?
Sounds and images ang distributor ng wireworld, maybe wholesound (taguig) also carries this...
KingRex, by order from a friend. Nort definite kung sya or merong distributor ito.
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Sounds and images ang distributor ng wireworld, maybe wholesound (taguig) also carries this...
KingRex, by order from a friend. Nort definite kung sya or merong distributor ito.
thanks for the very fast reply..wholesound is only a building away..silip lang ako hehe
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thanks for the very fast reply..wholesound is only a building away..silip lang ako hehe
Meron sa wholesound.
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Light harmonix yan brader eh..... Bagay yan sa da vinci dac nila.
Kung sa dac mo?
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Kung sa dac mo?
Nagustuhan ko kanina yung uArt ng KingRex na y-cable plus u Power so far... Di ko pa na try yung iba, need to workto buy usb cable eh.... Huhuhu
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Yung KingpRex na red ang na try ko... Eto pala meron and 6moons na review.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/kingrex12/1.html
Aray, $600 pala yun.... Di pa kasama ang UPower.
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Nagustuhan ko kanina yung uArt ng KingRex na y-cable plus u Power so far... Di ko pa na try yung iba, need to workto buy usb cable eh.... Huhuhu
I mean kung yun light harmonix sa dac mo? Kaya ba w4s maximize yung cable o need ng higher level equipment?
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Yung KingpRex na red ang na try ko... Eto pala meron and 6moons na review.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/kingrex12/1.html
Aray, $600 pala yun.... Di pa kasama ang UPower.
Mahal din pala. Pero kung yan ang ok sayo go for it. For peace of mind din.
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I mean kung yun light harmonix sa dac mo? Kaya ba w4s maximize yung cable o need ng higher level equipment?
Hehehe, kung alam ko di ko kaya price... Di ko na susubukan. Baka magustuhan ko pa eh ;D
But given the chance, I probably try it anyway... Sayang ang chance to know what you are missing or do not know.
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Mahal din pala. Pero kung yan ang ok sayo go for it. For peace of mind din.
I would probably go as high as 200 to 300$ for a usb cable since 10 to 15% ng dac ko but not higher.... Kung minsan kasi yung tweak mas mahal pa sa gears. Parang wala sa lugar....
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I would probably go as high as 200 to 300$ for a usb cable since 10 to 15% ng dac ko but not higher.... Kung minsan kasi yung tweak mas mahal pa sa gears. Parang wala sa lugar....
Oo napaisip ako bigla dun sa sinabi mong bagay yan sa da vinci dac nila. I was planning kasi on an upgrade that would likely equal to 40% of the gear's cost.
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Oo napaisip ako bigla dun sa sinabi mong bagay yan sa da vinci dac nila. I was planning kasi on an upgrade that would likely equal to 40% of the gear's cost.
Anong upgrade yun?
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Anong upgrade yun?
Tonearm cable lang
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Sorry for the OT pero ito: Audience AU24se tonearm cable to replace the stock tonearm cable of Roksan Radius 5.2.
Audience AU24se = $ 1,395
Roksan Radius 5.2 with Tabriz tonearm (*MM cart inc) = £ 1,500
*MM cart to be replaced by MC cart
Ouch... Pag ganun kalaki ang tweak baka mas better kumuha ng higher model na lang or different brand of the same quality after the tweak. That way, ang starting point mo mataas agad. Konti na lang tweak kung meron pa.
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Tonearm cable lang
Pakingan mo muna bgo ka magupgrade:) bka mas maganda TT na mismo o kaya cart. Dont be in haste bro. Sooner youll find out it is more than the phono cable na magpapaganda sa tunog ng tt mo
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Its time to play... Woohoooo.
I think it would be easier if there would be a format that we can follow....
1. Sound quality
A. Lows
B. Mids and highs
2. Sound Stage
3. Imaging
Test materials:
Jenni Muldaur - there another place where I can't go
Noel Cabangon - tuwing umuulan
Diana Krall - frim fram sauce
Ray Charles - makin whoopee
Elmer Bernstein - the magnificent seven
I am open to other test tracks if I have them.... Sana they are something I am familiar din.
Baka meron din kayong ma suggest, do let me know.
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yung kay allan taylor colur to the moon brader..maganda pang testing....Si Reshaman ang dami na yatang na testing na usb cables para sa wyred...high end din..
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yung kay allan taylor colur to the moon brader..maganda pang testing....Si Reshaman ang dami na yatang na testing na usb cables para sa wyred...high end din..
Mabigat ang budget ni Richard. Di natin kaya yan....
Yung kay allan taylor pwede, medyo familiar ako, palitan natin yung diana krall tapos dagdag si halie loren.... Thanks
Test materials:
Jenni Muldaur - there another place where I can't go
Noel Cabangon - tuwing umuulan
Allan Taylor - color to the moon
Ray Charles - makin whoopee
Elmer Bernstein - the magnificent seven
Halie Loren - gray to grand
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imaging at sound stage testing, yung Spanish harlem ni Rebbeca Pidgeon...
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imaging at sound stage testing, yung Spanish harlem ni Rebbeca Pidgeon...
Familiar ako dun pero mas gusto ko si jenni at si halie brader... :)
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This is an extract from computeraudiophile...
There is much animated discussion on USB cables, and cables in general of course.
Opinions range from:
1. Any USB cable to a DAC sounds the same, even $2 EUR 1.5 ones, so why bother spending more
2. There is no valid technical reason why USB cables sound different, double blind tests confirm that
3. Printer USB cables won't be the same as audio grade USB Cables, so don't use them
4. Different branded USB cables do make a difference
5. I use Brand X USB Cable cause it gives me soundstage/resolution/no smear/great timing/less jitter (select which applies)
6. I can hear the difference between USB Cables
7. USB cables perform better with matched DACS of proportional cost
8. I like Brand X because I like the manufacturer's system sound
9. Brand X cables doesn't produce jitter as much as Brand Y
10. Crosstalk on Brand X cable is minimised between D+ and D- lines, especially the Y type cable
Now all these are opinions, there are (small to large) facts and myths buried in all of them, each one can be analysed until the end of time with really no clear winner or result. In the end, have a read of all the posts, and eventually you will say, heck, I'll just buy Brand X cause it will look good in my system and the price is right.
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Always a discussion, debate and often ends to quarrels. Kaya nga naglagay na ako ng disclaimer eh ^-^
Parang speaker wires, interconnects at power cable lang din etong topic na to... Merong believer, merong hindi at meron ayaw... Basta ayaw! ;D hehehe
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Another addition to the test would be to make sure all sound would be at the same volume level.
I would be using an app on my ipad to make sure a certain part of a certain song will register the same level. In my case, the first 30 second of jenni muldaur's song and at a maximum of 80db... (Nasa condo kasi ako eh).
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brader yung kay Boz scaggs Thanks to you maganda sa low/bass..
or bob marley buffalo soldier for tight bass testing..
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brader yung kay Boz scaggs Thanks to you maganda sa low/bass..
Anong song, familiar lang ako sa sound track ng urban cowboy. Di ko nga maalala yung title eh...
Meron akong idadagdag para dyan...
No scrubs ng tlc... ^-^
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Another addition to the test would be to make sure all sound would be at the same volume level.
I would be using an app on my ipad to make sure a certain part of a certain song will register the same level. In my case, the first 30 second of jenni muldaur's song and at a maximum of 80db... (Nasa condo kasi ako eh).
Kung isang amp lang naman ang gagamitin nyo, wag nyo na lang galawin ang volume. Kasama din kc yun difference sa volume yun difference.
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Thanks to you by Boz Scaggs from album Marantz Hi-End Audiophile Test Demo CD 2011..
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Kung isang amp lang naman ang gagamitin nyo, wag nyo na lang galawin ang volume. Kasama din kc yun difference sa volume yun difference.
Brader may mga music kasi na mababa ang volume ng sounds...kung Jriver MC19 ang gagamitin, pwedeng gamitin ang volume leveling...
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Kung isang amp lang naman ang gagamitin nyo, wag nyo na lang galawin ang volume. Kasama din kc yun difference sa volume yun difference.
Ang problem dyan na nakikita ko brader is pag masmalakas ang isa over the other nagiging iba perspective. Mas tama imo ang parehong volume ang dating sa listener para mas madistinguish ang sonic difference better.
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Brader may mga music kasi na mababa ang volume ng sounds...kung Jriver MC19 ang gagamitin, pwedeng gamitin ang volume leveling...
Di pwede brader, di maglelevel pag nagpalit ng cable eh.... External source heheheh
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Kung meron kang SPL mas maganda, pero kung SPL sa IPAD, hindi reliable yun..ang laki ng error..
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Kung meron kang SPL mas maganda, pero kung SPL sa IPAD, hindi reliable yun..ang laki ng error..
It will work for now, medyo close na rin. Don't want to spend muna. Mahal ang cables eh.... Hehehe
Just to add, I am running Jriver mc19 with pcm2dsd set ON 2xdsd...
Dami ko nang nakikita na iba......
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Will invite others before I release my findings para may second opinion.... Pero so far I am very very happy.... ^-^
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Jhameeh, tara...ikaw second opinion ko.... ^-^
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Brader pasensya ba po, wala akong pang testing....hehehe...cant wait to read your findings...
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So far most of the usb cables gave my system a warm taste....
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Sa experience ko, minsan what may be maganda sa system ko may not be good sa ibang system. "Synergy".
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So far most of the usb cables gave my system a warm taste....
May napili ka na?
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Yung cables ba home audition lang or buy mo na?
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Yung cables ba home audition lang or buy mo na?
Bilin na lahat para iba-iba timpla. >:D >:D >:D
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Approved without thinking...hahaha
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Sa experience ko, minsan what may be maganda sa system ko may not be good sa ibang system. "Synergy".
Konsi, I very much agree. Matching to achieve synergy truly is very important.
Yung cables ba home audition lang or buy mo na?
Audition lang without commitment. Familiar si Mykel dyan, its good to have friends in the industry....
Pero sometimes hindi rin, lalo kasing lumalaki gastos eh.....
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Ferdie Ludo once brought a USB cable for me to test and the A-B comparison versus my generic USB cable from Mac to DAC resulted in such an obvious improvement in SQ I bought the cable on the spot - never mind that just a few moments earlier, the thought of buying a $300 USB cable seemed so preposterous.
Not all audio tweaks resulted in improvements - I've had some expensive duds as well. But a premium USB cable is not one of them.
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Ferdie Ludo once brought a USB cable for me to test and the A-B comparison versus my generic USB cable from Mac to DAC resulted in such an obvious improvement in SQ I bought the cable on the spot - never mind that just a few moments earlier, the thought of buying a $300 USB cable seemed so preposterous.
Not all audio tweaks resulted in improvements - I've had some expensive duds as well. But a premium USB cable is not one of them.
I have to agree that the usb doesn't bring the most obvious tweaks. And that the smallest tweaks often cost much. I am happy to say I would not be needing a 300$ cable though I am willing only if the tweak is enough to substantiate the cost.
Saving on usb cable made my day or night :)
One thing I am pondering now is how it affects the system.
Earlier I noticed most cables were warn for my system, then I realized if I were using a different speaker wire, the usb cables would probably fit the bill... So in the quest for audio nirvana, matching plays a huge factor for every part of a system. From the power source to the speakers....
The nice part is, not all matches made in heaven need to be expensive.... Finding the combination is the difficult part....
Cheers
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Anong napili mo?
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Among dun sa na test ko... Wala. Two more will come before the weekend... Sana wala rin akong mapili dun ^-^. The cables that i tried made my system warm. They did not match. The stock cable that came with the dac still gave me what I want... But will let others hear and see what they think.
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This one came in today...
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zpsc365276b.jpg)
uArt S (straight ) USB Cable
Feature:
*USB 2.0 HIGH SPEED TRANSMIT ABILITY
*LONG-TERM DURABILITY
*HIGHER DATA RELIABLITY
*SILVER-PLATED OXYGEN-FREE COPPER PROCESS CONDUCTOR
*DOUBLE SHIELDED USB CABLE
*24K GOLD-PLATED COPPER ALLOY TERMINALS
*FULL ALUMINUM CNC USB PLUG SHELL W/ SPECIAL DAMPING
*TRANSMITS DATA AT UP TO 480MBPS
*CERTIFIED ACCORDIN TO USB2.0 HIGH SPEED (USB-IF)
Eto bumagay sa system... Kaya lang too early to tell, tinanggal ko muna.
Seems the kingrex uArt matches better for neutral to slightly warm systems... As the other cables made my system warmer than I prefered.
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Entry level pa lang yan brader, pano na kung "Y" yan... >:D
http://www.moon-audio.com/kingrex-uart-y-usb-cable.html
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Entry level pa lang yan brader, pano na kung "Y" yan... >:D
http://www.moon-audio.com/kingrex-uart-y-usb-cable.html
Di na gaanong magkakarun ng effect ang Y-type dahil sa design ng dac brader. Yung cable flavor lang din ang makukuha ng system....
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With the previous cables sounding a bit warm except for the uArt S (red one) from kingrex which sounded smooth but still neutral. Lost a very small amount of detail which was the price for smoothness I guess but was a choice I considered....
Stayed with the stock cable from w4s which came with the dac.... Then this arrived earlier today.
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/sonny715/null_zpsd3eb4234.jpg)
It is a diy cable from Taiwan if I am not mistaken...
Plugged it in and gave it a shot....
First note gave me a bigger stage immediately, so what is the sacrifice now? Detail was all there, in fact I believe I gained a bit more without it sounding harsh. The bass... Well with the stage getting bigger, the low frequency sounds bigger as well. Tight and defined just the way I like it....
This just might stay here.... But I got to know the price first ::) sana hindi gaanong kamahalan ^-^
Editted: I might have given an inappropriate judgement at this time since I do not think this hasn't been broken in... Nasa ceiling kasi yung kumakanta ngayon eh :o
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To those who inquired about the TZ Yun usb cable, price nya is php6,500.00...