PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Setting Up => Topic started by: markcrenz on Sep 03, 2015 at 02:24 PM
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Lately I've been seeing many inquiries regarding the use of 110V supply on 100V audio gears so I decided to create a thread specifically for this.
Short answer: Use a 100V stepdown transformer for 100V audio gears.
I would prefer the exact or even lower voltage when using 100V equipment. Some would say the 10% additional voltage is generally within the tolerance specs of most electronics. But I see that tolerance rating as a buffer for the line voltage fluctuation. 10% overvoltage applied constantly is not good. Using a higher voltage will subject parts to higher than normal voltages and there may be a shorter life expectancy of those parts. Internal voltage regulators are more at risk as they run much hotter when handling a higher input voltage.
For power amplifiers (not integrateds or receivers) I think it's perfectly safe if you're using 8 ohm speakers. A fan would help cool things down and negate the effects of the higher line voltage. Be wary of using 4 ohm speakers on 100V amps plugged to 110V, you'd probably be near the safety threshold of the power supply and output transistors when playing at high volume levels. High line voltage and low impedance load is not amplifier-friendly.
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100 volts are often mentioned, but what is the primary line?
it is also important for readers to become aware, as 100 volt secondary is not
constant with changing primary line voltages say 200 to 240 volts.....
decision to use will depend on knowing this simple fact....
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ah ok. ano naman ung watt ratings ng stepdown transformers?
If you have, say, a japan amp rated 50x2, 100V. Anung kukunin mong stepdown transformer? Will a 100watts transformer do the job or meron bang rule of thumb?
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100 volts are often mentioned, but what is the primary line?
it is also important for readers to become aware, as 100 volt secondary is not
constant with changing primary line voltages say 200 to 240 volts.....
decision to use will depend on knowing this simple fact....
Master it's 110V. Marami kasi users may AVR with regulated 110v output na, they ask kung pwede doon isaksak yung 100v gears nila. So this thread is about that.
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ah ok. ano naman ung watt ratings ng stepdown transformers?
If you have, say, a japan amp rated 50x2, 100V. Anung kukunin mong stepdown transformer? Will a 100watts transformer do the job or meron bang rule of thumb?
Mahirap magbase sa amp output power lang. Ano bang amp, class A, AB, SS, tube?
Mas maganda if you can get the power consumption in watts, it's probably stamped at the back of the amp. Multiply that wattage by 1.7 and that's the minimum VA of the transformer you will need. Multiply the consumption in watts by 2 and you'll have more than adequate headroom.
If the power consumption is expressed in amperes mas madali. Multiplying 100V by A (amperes) will directly give you the minimum VA of the transformer you will need. If the amp states 7A max consumption you'll need a minimum of 700VA.
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I would prefer the exact or even lower voltage when using 100V equipment. Some would say the 10% additional voltage is generally within the tolerance specs of most electronics. But I see that tolerance rating as a buffer for the line voltage fluctuation. 10% overvoltage applied constantly is not good. Using a higher voltage will subject parts to higher than normal voltages and there may be a shorter life expectancy of those parts. Internal voltage regulators are more at risk as they run much hotter when handling a higher input voltage.
For power amplifiers (not integrateds or receivers) I think it's perfectly safe if you're using 8 ohm speakers. A fan would help cool things down and negate the effects of the higher line voltage. Be wary of using 4 ohm speakers on 100V amps plugged to 110V, you'd probably be near the safety threshold of the power supply and output transistors when playing at high volume levels. High line voltage and low impedance load is not amplifier-friendly.
In relation to this, how about 220v appliances/gears plugged into our local outlet (220v)?
It is normal for Metro Manila outlets to output 230-240 volts, the highest I've recorded before was 245 volts (nagreklamo na ako sa Meralco nun). Assuming 230-235 volts (which is also around 10% higher output), will that also possibly destroy gears?
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Assuming 230-235 volts
6% lang yan, kayang kaya. Kung laging over 240v recommended na ang AVR.
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Ok thanks sir
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if I have an AVR that is supposed to give out 110VAC but is showing 124VAC to 130VAC, should this indicate that it is now defective?
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if I have an AVR that is supposed to give out 110VAC but is showing 124VAC to 130VAC, should this indicate that it is now defective?
I would be a bit worried. What is the 220V output measurement of that AVR? I bet it's way off too.
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In relation to this, how about 220v appliances/gears plugged into our local outlet (220v)?
It is normal for Metro Manila outlets to output 230-240 volts, the highest I've recorded before was 245 volts (nagreklamo na ako sa Meralco nun). Assuming 230-235 volts (which is also around 10% higher output), will that also possibly destroy gears?
Buti pa sa inyo sir... dito sa amin standard average ko 209V... Pero bawi naman pag holy hour na... sarap.
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if I have an AVR that is supposed to give out 110VAC but is showing 124VAC to 130VAC, should this indicate that it is now defective?
Definitely. You can bring it to me for calibration or repair.
I would be a bit worried. What is the 220V output measurement of that AVR? I bet it's way off too.
Malamang 248-260V na. Unless the half-way tap on the autotransformer jumped. ;D
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When you buy gears from the US, are they 120v or 110v ?
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if I have an AVR that is supposed to give out 110VAC but is showing 124VAC to 130VAC, should this indicate that it is now defective?
the question is, are you having equipment breakdowns because of this or are you just worried?
most likely high line voltages feeding your primary...check your outlets first before doing anything on that avr...
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When you buy gears from the US, are they 120v or 110v ?
can be anywhere from 110 to 120 and beyond...i even see 117 volts sometimes...
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Buti pa sa inyo sir... dito sa amin standard average ko 209V... Pero bawi naman pag holy hour na... sarap.
many years ago, i lived in a place where the line drops to 190v at night, soldering becomes impossible..
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ah ok. ano naman ung watt ratings ng stepdown transformers?
If you have, say, a japan amp rated 50x2, 100V. Anung kukunin mong stepdown transformer? Will a 100watts transformer do the job or meron bang rule of thumb?
at the back of the gear power rating is often indicated, look for it and find a stepdown traffo several times higher...
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may ONKYO avr ako na US model ang rating 120V pero ang ginamit ko na stepdown trafo ay 100V year 2002 pa buhay pa naman hanggan ngayon.
may japan surplus din ako ONKYO 15x2 Watts ginamit ko ay 50Watts na stepdown @100V more than 20 years na college days pa.
noong kabit ko pa lang si misis :) nag build din ako para kanya surplus din pioneer naman sobrang init pag ang stepdown @ 110 V, pinalitan ko nang @100V more than 20 years na rin ok pa hanggang ngayon.
dito sa area ko naman mataas supply ng meralco kaya yung stepdown @100V minsan umaabot nang 110V + / -
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Sa 115V lines pwede na rin ba sa 100V gears?
If US gears na 120V ratings okay na rin ba gamitin 115V line o may effect din in the long run?
Sa amin sa Antipolo kasi 115V per line readings ko with respect sa PLDT ground rod dati, kaya 230V ang basis ko at di 220V na dapat standard natin.
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Lately I've been seeing many inquiries regarding the use of 110V supply on 100V audio gears so I decided to create a thread specifically for this.
Short answer: Use a 100V stepdown transformer for 100V audio gears.
I would prefer the exact or even lower voltage when using 100V equipment. Some would say the 10% additional voltage is generally within the tolerance specs of most electronics. But I see that tolerance rating as a buffer for the line voltage fluctuation. 10% overvoltage applied constantly is not good. Using a higher voltage will subject parts to higher than normal voltages and there may be a shorter life expectancy of those parts. Internal voltage regulators are more at risk as they run much hotter when handling a higher input voltage.
For power amplifiers (not integrateds or receivers) I think it's perfectly safe if you're using 8 ohm speakers. A fan would help cool things down and negate the effects of the higher line voltage. Be wary of using 4 ohm speakers on 100V amps plugged to 110V, you'd probably be near the safety threshold of the power supply and output transistors when playing at high volume levels. High line voltage and low impedance load is not amplifier-friendly.
You have a very valid point there Don King Markcrenz!
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Malamang 248-260V na. Unless the half-way tap on the autotransformer jumped. ;D
Korek. Impossible mangyari yun! ;D
I totally agree, better have it checked and calibrated. Vref is way off.
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many years ago, i lived in a place where the line drops to 190v at night, soldering becomes impossible..
that sucks bigtime. where in the Metro?
about a couple of years ago Meralco graciously gave residents here a separate transformer. now the problem of peaks and valleys in the line has been resolved since most of our lines had been separated from power hungry industries.
unfortunately, the problem of "jumpers" still exists.
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When you buy gears from the US, are they 120v or 110v ?
From memory, the US standard is 120VAC/60Hz. Japan is 100VAC/50Hz while the Middle East standard is 120VAC/50Hz. Most of Europe has a standard of 240VAC/50Hz.
Frequencies vary, worse case you may have both 50Hz and 60Hz in the same region. Most gears can tolerate both so it's no biggie.
Hope this helps.
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that sucks bigtime. where in the Metro?
about a couple of years ago Meralco graciously gave residents here a separate transformer. now the problem of peaks and valleys in the line has been resolved since most of our lines had been separated from power hungry industries.
unfortunately, the problem of "jumpers" still exists.
pasig.....the problem has since been corrected afaik...
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From memory, the US standard is 120VAC/60Hz. Japan is 100VAC/50Hz while the Middle East standard is 120VAC/50Hz. Most of Europe has a standard of 240VAC/50Hz.
Frequencies vary, worse case you may have both 50Hz and 60Hz in the same region. Most gears can tolerate both so it's no biggie.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Jojo , is there anyway of knowing if the gear is multivolt even if it says its for 110v use only ? There are posts and threads that state that Japan made/sold electronics are multivolt but branded as 100 to avoid export to other countries due to low price or Japan-only exclusivity
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Thanks Jojo , is there anyway of knowing if the gear is multivolt even if it says its for 110v use only ? There are posts and threads that state that Japan made/sold electronics are multivolt but branded as 100 to avoid export to other countries due to low price or Japan-only exclusivity
look at the product specifications, that will tell you what you need to know....
FWIW, japan only(local 100volt gears) are better in quality than export models,
that is why they are very much sought after....
most of these gears can be converted to our 220volt local voltage....
in fact, when someone asks me, i always tell them to have their 100v
gears converted to local voltage, this is more bulletproof than just buying
an avr or stepdown transformer...
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Master it's 110V. Marami kasi users may AVR with regulated 110v output na, they ask kung pwede doon isaksak yung 100v gears nila. So this thread is about that.
still in order to have a more meaning full discussions,
those asking questions here are better served if they
know the range of primary voltages in their outlets...
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look at the product specifications, that will tell you what you need to know....
FWIW, japan only(local 100volt gears) are better in quality than export models,
that is why they are very much sought after....
most of these gears can be converted to our 220volt local voltage....
in fact, when someone asks me, i always tell them to have their 100v
gears converted to local voltage, this is more bulletproof than just buying
an avr or stepdown transformer...
Sir tony, once in my life I had dwell with Japan amps. Tried to convert to local voltage sana but I don't understand what the technician is saying. He wants to charge 1,500 to covert ONLY the Primary. Ung iba, hindi na daw gagalawin, wala naman daw case un. Is this true? I opted to go for the step-down transformer route though. hehe
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up to you....in 1990, i had a friend bring to my shop his brand new cd boombox from japan...
i told him to let me convert it to 220 volts for 250 pesos, aba nanghinayang sa singil ko....
then after a month he came back to me and told me, i spent 2500 in greenhills to get my boombox
repaired, naisaksak ng katulong sa 220v....
case to case basis din, some gears have already two primaries and all that is needed is to just connect them in series....your technician will know what to do....
the reason why some do not want to touch the unit is that it can lose resale value once you modify it...
so if your plan is to keep the unit, then i say convert, but if you intend to resell later then don't...
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From memory, the US standard is 120VAC/60Hz. Japan is 100VAC/50Hz while the Middle East standard is 120VAC/50Hz. Most of Europe has a standard of 240VAC/50Hz.
Frequencies vary, worse case you may have both 50Hz and 60Hz in the same region. Most gears can tolerate both so it's no biggie.
Hope this helps.
So I guess, a variance of 124-130VAC from norm of 120VAC is still acceptable since I was puzzled why none of the connected gears have conked out because of this.
But I realise that this AVR has been there for more than a decade so it's about time to either replace, re-adjust or retire it fully.
Thanks!
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So I guess, a variance of 124-130VAC from norm of 120VAC is still acceptable since I was puzzled why none of the connected gears have conked out because of this.
Correct! If you're using it solely for 120V gears ok lang yan. But if you're using the 220V outlet delikado.
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It is from the 110VAC output of the AVR that provides for both 220VAC and 110VAC.
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Thanks Jojo , is there anyway of knowing if the gear is multivolt even if it says its for 110v use only ? There are posts and threads that state that Japan made/sold electronics are multivolt but branded as 100 to avoid export to other countries due to low price or Japan-only exclusivity
First you should know exact what version your gear is. Then you look at the specific version of the manual of that gear. Bear in mind that Japan local versions have single primaries, meaning there is no way to convert it by just rewiring it because there are no taps in the primary. US and European models usually are the generic types, meaning their primaries have multi taps that can either be user selectable or service center re-wired.
You cannot just know these by just looking at the specs, look at the specific model you have instead.
On the issue of rewinding the primary to our local voltage, I would not recommend that. However, if you have the Euro or US versions then just simply have it rewired (if possible) to our local line voltage.
Back to topic.
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So I guess, a variance of 124-130VAC from norm of 120VAC is still acceptable since I was puzzled why none of the connected gears have conked out because of this.
But I realise that this AVR has been there for more than a decade so it's about time to either replace, re-adjust or retire it fully.
Thanks!
Contrary to what others may say, I recommend having these things checked especially if it has already served you for a decade. Bring it to Mark, if not for the gears, for the peace of mind. Don't wait for it to fry a gear, it could still serve you well for many years to come with preventive maintenance.
Cheers
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Mark, why not whip up a circuit which you can add to AVRs that would disengage the 110V outputs once they are out of bounds... should be a handy piece of upgrade you can offer our friends here.
A simple comparator (LM339?) powered by a small 200mA transformer powered by the 110V line and wired to drive a relay that engages/disengages the 110V line should do it.
Over voltage lang para simple pero kung gusto mo over/under voltage protection I think a window comparator should fit nicely, quad naman ang LM339. :)
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Lately I've been seeing many inquiries regarding the use of 110V supply on 100V audio gears so I decided to create a thread specifically for this.
Short answer: Use a 100V stepdown transformer for 100V audio gears.
I would prefer the exact or even lower voltage when using 100V equipment. Some would say the 10% additional voltage is generally within the tolerance specs of most electronics. But I see that tolerance rating as a buffer for the line voltage fluctuation. 10% overvoltage applied constantly is not good. Using a higher voltage will subject parts to higher than normal voltages and there may be a shorter life expectancy of those parts. Internal voltage regulators are more at risk as they run much hotter when handling a higher input voltage.
For power amplifiers (not integrateds or receivers) I think it's perfectly safe if you're using 8 ohm speakers. A fan would help cool things down and negate the effects of the higher line voltage. Be wary of using 4 ohm speakers on 100V amps plugged to 110V, you'd probably be near the safety threshold of the power supply and output transistors when playing at high volume levels. High line voltage and low impedance load is not amplifier-friendly.
I think I'm one of those who posted on this subject. anyways, I've been reading this thread and I wanted to know the difference between a stepdown transformer and an AVR.
I recently got hold of gears that are rated 100v 50/60hz and I tried to look for an AVR that has 100v output but couldn't find one. sir markcrenz offered to tweak my AVR but our locations are on both ends of the map, hehehe.
is the stepdown transformer the answer to my dilemma?
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(https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/405807_229056917179083_1279708265_n.jpg?oh=1c88aaf3910642ca1b3199b487566736&oe=567CC64D)
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Ok yan, an extra tap for 100v. Actually any AVR with 110V out can be modified to supply 100V. Pwede pa nga any voltage from 90 to 130 and 180 to 260 if there's any application for that.
I wanted to know the difference between a stepdown transformer and an AVR.
Stepdown transformer
- The ratio between input (primary) and output (secondary) is fixed. Any fluctuation in the line voltage affects the output.
- Maintenance-free
- More energy efficient
- High tolerance to short overloads
- Recommended if your line voltage is within +/-10%
AVR
- Electronics circuitry corrects line voltage fluctuations to maintain stable outputs (Major advantage)
- Requires periodic maintenance
- Less efficient than stepdown transformer
- Moderate to low tolerance to short overloads
- Recommended if your line voltage goes beyond +/-10%
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(https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/405807_229056917179083_1279708265_n.jpg?oh=1c88aaf3910642ca1b3199b487566736&oe=567CC64D)
Uy, thank you sir! meron ba sa Ace nyan?
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Ok yan, an extra tap for 100v. Actually any AVR with 110V out can be modified to supply 100V. Pwede pa nga any voltage from 90 to 130 and 180 to 260 if there's any application for that.
Stepdown transformer
- The ratio between input (primary) and output (secondary) is fixed. Any fluctuation in the line voltage affects the output.
- Maintenance-free
- More energy efficient
- High tolerance to short overloads
- Recommended if your line voltage is within +/-10%
AVR
- Electronics circuitry corrects line voltage fluctuations to maintain stable outputs (Major advantage)
- Requires periodic maintenance
- Less efficient than stepdown transformer
- Moderate to low tolerance to short overloads
- Recommended if your line voltage goes beyond +/-10%
thnx sir markcrenz
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meron sir :)
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meron sir :)
thnx
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Just a thought, if one already has an AVR at 110volts, but still worried about the 100volt requirement of vintage gears, why not buy a step-down transformer ouputting 100volts. At kung worried pa rin sa fluctuating voltage ni meralco, pwede ikonek sa 220volt ni AVR ang stepdown 100volt.
In this case, regulated ang 100volt source ng vintage gears natin. Pwede ba yung ganito?
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I am about to buy a receiver that is rated as 120 VAC, 60HZ. Power consumption is typical 580 watts.
So what should I need to buy? Thanks for any advice.
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I bought a 2nd hand Denon receiver and its 100v 50/60hz 310w.
The owner told me that its all good and he's been using it with 110v.
So far I've been using the receiver for the whole week and so far its all good.
It's connected to my Servo type AVR 110v outlet.
I've been monitoring the voltage on my sonoff smart plug. I'm getting voltage ranging from 105 to 108V. At 80 to 90% volume I'm getting max power usage of 40 to 50watts.
Do you sitll recommend if I have this properly converted to proper 110v or 220?
Thank you.
(https://i.imgur.com/U9cGGq3.png)