PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Tubes => Topic started by: hyperaudio on Jun 14, 2002 at 10:25 PM
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for tubed equipment users and would-be users out there, post on!
MOD NOTE:
merged all newbie and not-so noob questions threads, set this as a sticky. post away. :)
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Sir Hyperaudio,
What are the signs / early indications of a tube nearing the end of its life? Would it be possible to detect this without electrically testing the vacuum tube? Aside from sound degradation, what other physical observations should we look out for?
(- For those wanting to buy second hand tube amps)
Thanks,
Mika :)
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Ahh... it's about time someone started a thead like this. :)
I got lotsa questions for the master of Tubes ;)
1. These Tube amps look kind of fragile. Is this true?
2. I've read somewhere that Tubes get very hot. Won't this be dangerous, and won't this affect performance?
3. Are Tubes 'high maintenance'? Are the parts ultra expensive?
4. What type of speakers are best suited for Tube amps?
5. Can I use my Tube Amp for Home Theater purposes? Like can I use it to watch my favorite DVD?
6. Being analog, can I plug in my CD player to the Tube Amp? How will it sound anyway?
7. Where can a newbie get a start-up tube setup? How much would it cost? Can you give a basic example for all would-be tube users out there? ;)
:) :D :) :D
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mika (ur handle sounds familiar),
physically; usually you'll notice the mercury or that silver
thing on the side of the tube fade out until such time that the whole tube glass is transparent or the mercury still there but outlined with a brown coloration. worst, the silver thing is replaced with a powdery white substance. this means the tube is kaput. some defective tubes wont exhibit anything like the above. in that case (when in doubt), just bring those tubes to me and will test them for free!
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yes, it's about time! i just hope my fellow tube alumni
(shoemaker, hyperion, vax, vintage dog and practically all tube users) would help me answer the questions
posted here. i may have 20 years experience with tubes
but i hope to learn more from all of you guys.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY to all daddies out there!
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Ahh... it's about time someone started a thead like this. :)
I got lotsa questions for the master of Tubes ;)
5. Can I use my Tube Amp for Home Theater purposes? Like can I use it to watch my favorite DVD?
6. Being analog, can I plug in my CD player to the Tube Amp? How will it sound anyway?
:) :D :) :D
Hi MeowPao,
If you may, I’ll lend a li’l helpin’ hand to the “Master” by answering a couple of your questions. “Can I use my Tube Amp for Home Theater” you say? An emphatic yes! I actually started out this route. :D
Months ago, I chanced upon hearing Stuazon’s VAC Renaissance 70/70 Class “A” power amp with the coveted 300B tubes, and needless to say, I was bowled over. I’ve fallen victim to tube addiction ever since. So to cut the story short, when I got my hands on a pair of vintage VTL C-160 monoblocks (160Wpc), I realized that , without a pre-amp, the only way I could integrate these babies to my existing HT system was to hook-up my Marantz receiver’s pre-outs to the VTL’s line-ins. It was pretty straight-forward really. Of course, the tubes only drove the front L&R speakers while the rest (center and surrounds) was by the Marantz. But still, the result was, for lack of a better word… phenomenal. :o It's as if the artist is standing right in front of me with her breath passing thru my cheeks every time she utters a syllable of her song.
I subsequently played around 50 or so cds and dvds and even a li’l cable tv viewing without hiccups. Even with my SF ‘Tino’s lowly 88dB sensitivity, it never clipped. Admittedly, this is attributed to my relatively powerful VTLs, which mated perfectly with the ‘Tinos. So, careful matching must be in order. Your typical guide would be the lower your speaker’s sensitivity, the higher the nominal amplified power is required. However, this lends in a number of other factors to consider (speaker impedance deviations, power amp load aptitude, room acoustics, music preferences, etc.) so, I’ll let the “Master” elucidate this particular issue further. ;)
One must take note though that these tubes do need replacing. And from what I read, and from what the “Master” told me, a set of properly biased and matched tubes would last between 4000 to 8000 hours of listening bliss (depending on actual use, ambient temp and tube quality). And this is the reason I decided to finally move the tube amps to a dedicated stereo only listening room. I eventually cringed at the thought of watching F1 in 5.1 at the expense of my tube’s. :-\
You must evidently take extra measures in maintaining a tube amp. The routine of turning on the source first, then the preamp, and lastly properly warming up the amp before letting any audio signal pass through it, is to me, a sort of “foreplay” if you will. And as with love-making, the surge of pure “ecstasy” is then reached at its climax, but in a strictly “aural” sense of the word that is. ;)
Hope this helps.
-Racio 8)
P.S. Here’s a link to other HT owners who recently became “tube converts”: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=d0ec4ad02c1a2183422b145fb264f1f2&threadid=75537 (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=d0ec4ad02c1a2183422b145fb264f1f2&threadid=75537)
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thanks hyperaudio,
oh i see!!, all the while i thought the black thing was bad. sort of like the thing you see on your incandesent bulb when its out of service already.
racio, can you please share other words of wisdom that the "master" has imparted to you (like a jedi master to his apprentice) with regards to tube amps. you mentioned warm-up time (how long?) and matched pair (why?/spare tubes?).
you're very good with your analogies. thanks!!
mika :)
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racio, can you please share other words of wisdom that the "master" has imparted to you (like a jedi master to his apprentice) with regards to tube amps. you mentioned warm-up time (how long?) and matched pair (why?/spare tubes?).
you're very good with your analogies. thanks!!
mika :)
Mika,
Hahaha LOL! :D I kinda’ like that… I shall now attempt bringing in to light the “force” that was handed over to me by the “Master” himself. ;)
Generally, the warm-up time takes between 5-15 minutes. It really depends on what the manufacturers indicate in the amp’s manual. Since my VTLs were too old to come with its own manual, I usually stick to 6-8 minutes. However, I hear that with some audiophiles with truly expensive gears using those sought after New-Old-Stock (NOS) tubes (Mullard, Brimar etc.), their warm-up time takes almost half an hour or so.
Most amps are designed that they require power tubes that have similar “cathode current”. Even tubes of the same type (eg. 300B, EL34, 6065, KT88 etc.) made at the same time and the same manufacturer (Sovtek, Svetlana, JJ/Tesla etc.) usually have variations in their cathode current, and this is why testing and matching is required. Not all amps actually require it, although it doesn’t hurt to have 'em matched. In "car-speak" terms, you can liken this to let's say, when you equalize tire pressures (pairing-up) for your fronts and then rears. Most dealers don't even charge extra for matching (unless they're NOS of course). Tubes are paired/matched up based on their “plate current draw”. Measuring this plate current draw under operating conditions is usually considered to be the most accurate method for rating a power tube, and this is how the “Master” does ‘em. I purchased my Sovtek KT88s matched already as indicated by having the same serial numbers for every pair. :)
This hobby obviously puts a dent on everyone’s wallet, may it be SS or tubes. Quality really comes at a price, no surprise there. But there is a way around this, one can eventually go tubes by digging up some vintage beauties out there... well, just like mine. The “Master” for one has a lot of ‘em ol’ beauties up for sale at absolutely down to earth prices. Lito Gelano (Sensible Audio) is another viable source. Or perhaps, you might find one thru the classified ads, or as one here popularly points out, from a friend of a friend ;) . You’ll never know, you might find a gem in an attic or basement somewhere. Also, fellow member corrsty is actually offering a chance for tube sound lovers to purchase these “ear candies” at an affordable price. :)
The thing in valve amplification, which I’m totally crazy about, is that if your existing setup’s “sonic character” doesn’t suit your taste, then just swap ‘em tubes to an alternative brand or to another compatible type and voila’: you’ve a new and different sounding audio system. Sorta’ like changing your fav car’s mags to a larger diameter, your ride then takes on a different “persona” doesn’t it? There is an abundance of information in the net about different tubes and their, let’s say, “individual charm and appeal”. Why call it a “hobby” if you can’t have any fun with it, right? ;)
‘Till next then.
-Racio 8)
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hi meowpao,
it's the tube itself that's fragile (coz it's glass he he) but definitely not the tubed equipment (te). almost all te are sturdily built and very heavy. mostly made of heavy gauge steel or aluminum. add that to the numerous large transformers, you got to have muscle to handle these.
tubes really do get hot until they reach a stable operating temp. te need ventilation to operate well;
just free space around it at room temp, not really aircon or electric fans pointing directly to it. they don't really consume much electricity as many people think. e.g., a dynaco st-70 at 35 wpc consumes about 200-220w.
as long as te are fed the correct line voltage, they're not high maintenance at all. a new power tube lasts
for 3000-5000 hrs, preamp tubes much more. once you get hooked to tubes the question will be: will there be
somebody to maintain my te? i don't know of any rehab centers for tube addicts so proceed at your own risk.
te need not be expensive. it's just this BS high-end philosophy that makes it one; make a tube amp costing $500; sell this for $2000 so high-enders would notice.
but upgrading to designer parts really improve the sound of existing tube amps (more of this later). a good te design with a good alchemy of inexpensive parts can smoke a high-end unit costing several times more. to top it all, properly repaired and restored vintage tubed
equipt ALWAYS sound good. as for replacement tubes, thanks to the current tube manuf like sovtek, svetlana,
tesla , shuguang etc., they have become available and affordable.
as for partnering speakers, te are usually happy with
high sensitivity and high impedance ones. i've had very
good results with budget british bookshelf speakers with 88db up sensitivity. smile, the speakers most of us are having now are tube-friendly. e.g. a 15wpc 6bq5-
based integrated amp driving a b&w 302 or 303 can take you to sonic nirvana (a bit exaggerrated but true).
tubed equipt for home theater? musicals and concerts, yes but movies, not really. it's not that tube equipt can't handle the impact of movie sound effects. the loud sound effects (explosions, gunfire, driving soundtrack, etc.) can wear the power tubes easily so relegate that chore to your favorite ht receiver. but nothing can beat
watching and listening to "hell freezes over" on a te, albeit only in pcm mode.
precisely it's the invention of the digital medium (cd) that precipitated the revival of tubes. the forgiving sound of tubed equipt has kept "digital glare" to a minimum (if not eliminated it). ever wondered why the x-10d has become a billion seller? need i say more?
for starters, you can have tube sound at about P7,000
to P8,000 for an X-10D, about P10,000-P12,000 for a modest restored vintage integrated amp, from P25,000
for a pre and power amp combo, and so on...
" the sweetest sound comes vacuum-sealed".
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first of all, thanks to hyper for starting this tread.
as most of you already know, no one even/ever comes close to hyper when it comes to tube-audio experience! (well, that comment will surely guarantee a nice discount from rene next time i buy something from him ;D)
i still remember the first tube gear i got from hyper several years ago (a jolida 302)...as an upgrade to my solid-state systems - acurus, nad, and a few others. must have been a decade ago...actually less. after that, some simple tweaks, some mods, and i was on a roll...then into some of the fancy stuff like the very pretty (and expensive) jadis...then a 2a3 single-ended amp...and recently (well 2-3 years now) into vintage amps.
there's no turning back...am hooked...and hooked bad. i know my stuff do not come close to what hyper and a few other tubeheads have, but i'm a die-hard tube fanatic! a vintage dog!!
what i'd like to see are more people get hooked into this hobby....share experiences, whap gear, have fun!!!
so, thanks rene for getting me into this crazy hobby and for being there for all of us tubeheads!
more (tube) power to everyone!!
v 8)t
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For more details about Tubes check this out Vacuum Tubes Overview (http://www.pinoydvd.com/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=1632)
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Single Ended Triode (SET) amps have only 1 output Triode tube per channel. Pinaka sikat dito is the 300B Triode tube because of its musicality.
Pro: Very musical, only 1 output tube
Con: Low power, a 300B (SET) normally has 5-10 watts per channel.
Push-pull (hindi po bastus ito) tube amps have more than 1 output tube (triode or pentode) per channel.
Pro: More powerful than SETs
Con: IMHO, less musical than SETs
Normally, more output tubes, mean more power. Different output tubes have different power outputs also.
Some purists prefer these low powerd SETs. To achieve listenable levels, they get very efficient speakers.
Tama ba Hyperaudio?
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Single Ended Triode is actually comprised of two things: 1) Single Ended pertains to the design in which the tubes work; and 2) Triode pertains to the type of tube utilized in the circuit.
Push pull is a design in which the tube works like Single Ended.
Here's a more detailed explanation (obtained from the net):
Triode, tetrode and pentode are types of vacuum tubes. A triode is a vaccum tube with three active elements: anode, cathode and in between them a grid. The current through the valve (from anode to cathode) can be controlled by applying a varying voltage on the grid.
Tetrodes and pentodes have additional grids compared to the triode.
The tetrode has a fourth electrode inserted between the anode and the control grid (I think its called a screen) in order to lower the capacitance in the tube. It seems tetrodes are rarely used in audio amplifiers but I don´t really know why. Beam tetrodes (KT88 et al) have included a pair of electrodes to "direct" or "focus" the flow of electrons towards the anode to lower the amount of electrons bouncing back (secondary emission) to the screen thereby creating a current flow from anode to screen.
Pentodes (6550, EL34...) have yet another grid, the supressor grid, inserted between the screen and the anode. The function of the supressor grid is to make sure that the electrons bouncing off the anode do not reach the screen grid.
To confuse newbies even more, the designers have found that beam tetrodes and pentodes can be connected in triode mode... i.e. they are working as a triode even though they have the extra electrodes for working as a beam tetrode / pentode. Some say they sound better connected this way but the available output power usually goes down.
Ultralinear, push-pull, single end, parallell single end are all configurations of the circuit in which the tube works.
One tube driving one speaker means the configuration is single end. Two (or more?) such tubes in parallell gives you parallell single end. Two parallell output tubes means double the output power. In a push-pull configuration (always tubes in pairs) one tube gets a negative input at the same time as the other tube gets an identical positive input (one tube pushes while the other pulls). In this configuration the even order harmonics are cancelled so that the output power becomes more than double than that of a single tube.
Ultralinear is a configuration where a connection is made from a special winding on the output transformer to the screen grid of the tube(s) so that a certain level of feedback is obtained. This is supposed to give lower disortion and a flatter frequency response. Ultralinear can be used push-pull or single ended.
More confused now eh?? Hehe!!
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mga audio gods,
sirs, why do some tube amps lack the punch (bass) needed in some music passages? i've read that tube amp designs have compromises. if you want that thump, the mid and highs will suffer and vice-versa. pero richness and clarity wise, tube amps are miles away from s-s amps. bakit pati hindi masakit sa tenga, pagtapos mong makinig ng music using tube amps?
thanks,
mika
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For question 1, check out, do a search on the Web. I think I read on Audio Asylum a post that compares the sonic characteristics of different tubes (w.g., JAn Philips vs. Siemens vs. Sylvania vs. Sovtek vs. Mullard vs. Amperex, etc.
For question 2, M_shoe_maker answered that for you already.
For question 3, I saw one available here, an AMC, at Ceratec in Megamall. Ah! Tjeob s the other. Did I spell that correctly? I'm not sure if Cary CDPs also have tube outputs.
For question 4, most of these hybrids I see have tube on the pre-amps and solid states on the amp. A recent very succesful combination is the Musical Fidelity X-Pre, XA-50 combination.
On statement 5, you probably didn't see the rest of his stuff. I got a pair of Ixos 105 digital coaxial interconnect at sub PhP1k. I saw a passive "pre-amp," essentially a volume control, with a high quality pot for sub PhP4k. The prices on the Rotel stuff he sells are 5-10% cheaper than in Singapore, arguably the electronics capital of Asia. And prices are relative. His PhP100k monoblock may be more elsewhere.
Talk to him. Tell him your needs and budget. If he says he can't help you (like he did when I asked for a tube integrated that can make my 'Tinos sing for PHP5k), all you lost is the time to go there and the effort to ask. ;-)
1. meron akong mf x10-d na ang tube nya ay jan philips maiiba ba ang tunog pag pinalitan ko ito ng ibang brand.
ano ang magandang tube para mas lalong bumuka ang tunog. depende rin ba ito sa system mo at type ng music na madalas mong pakinggan.
2. ang ang pinag iba ng x-24k, x-dac, at x-10d
3. meron akong nabasa dati na cd-player i think marantz ang brand nya na me tube sa loob nito maganda ba ito at meron ba niyan dito at magkano kaya.
4. bakit marami ang nagsasabi na pag tube ang power amp mo at solid state ang pre amp mo e masama raw ang labas kesa vise versa.
5. salamat doon sa una nyong reply at lease naliwanagan ako kahit papaano. pag nanddon kasi ako kila rene eh puro tubo ang gamit nya at ang mamahal pa pero napakababa ng mga output nya dati nag tanong ako 180K ang isang monoblock nya kaya times 2 para sa isang setup. again salamat mga kapatid.
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Man o man, somebody stole my post! >:(
Anyway here it is again (medyo iba na!) :(
Hi rony, here are some answers to your questions. Siyempre, this hobby of ours is very subjective so others may have different views:
1. Corek ka dyan, changing bands of your tubes will definitely change the sonic characteristic of your equipment (X-10D). Just remember that you can change the brand, but not the model / number. For the X10D, its the 6922 a.k.a. 6DJ8. The best? Well, kanya kanyang panlasa yan. Some say its the Amperex "Bugle Boy", some say its the Siemems. Try to experiment and pick what you fancy.
2. The X-24K and the X-DAC are Digital to Analog Converters. The X-10D is sort of Buffer Stage.
3. As to the Marantz, I am not sure about that. But there are indeed some CD players with tube output stages. Some say, (again a subjective issue) that having a tube output stage in CD player helps "tame" CD sound.
4. Again it all boils down to the individual perception of each person - very subjective. Also, system matching is very important.
5. Ganun talaga yun since Rene's tube stuff are all labors of love. Also, the high price is justified by the prime parts he uses. Kumbaga sa kotse, super-duper kargado.
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guys what Speakers are you using for your tube gear?
i saw a page on the web featuring an klipsch rf-3/s.e.t. combo, i know klipsches play loud but tonally are they good with tubes? how about impedance? the 98db rf-3 goes for php 52k on the avsurfer (avid) site-reasonable for a Reference-series floorstander, but standmounts go for 50k (rb-5 ii) and 40k (rb-3)-overpriced!
i've also heard soliloquy (audio den), easy to drive and gorgeously-made, but the sound seems to vary widely with diff. amps-anyone here tried them?
any recommendations?
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one more thing-what can you say about this italian solid-state integrated, w/c allegedly sounds just like a tube amp: the audio analogue puccini (audio den)-?
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Me, I'm using an old 35-watt per channel Dynaco ST70 power amp to drive my old Spica TC50 speakers.
No thunderous bass, but with good recordings, I'm very much satisfied with the midrange.
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Hi notaku,
A 9 watt per channel SE tube amp can drive my Mission 772 (85 db/w/m) speakers easily. This depends on what kinds of music you usually listen to, how loud you listen to music and the size of your listening room. My listening room is small so no problems there. You would be surprised how loud your speakers can be driven by these modest powered tubes. Yesterday, I tried the 9 wpc tube amp with a pair of Mission 601's and the sound was loud even when the volume is only at the 9 o'clock position.
What speakers are you currently using and what speakers are you eyeing to buy?
corrsty
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one more thing-what can you say about this italian solid-state integrated, w/c allegedly sounds just like a tube amp: the audio analogue puccini (audio den)-?
well, an office colleague of mine owns an analogue puccini SE (the more expensive version) driving a kef floorstander. he was quite pleased with it until he dropped by the house last week and listened to one of my vintage amp systems. net, he ended up bringing home one of my vintage amps - he bought the stromberg-carlson asr-433 12wpc of tube power driven by 4 6bq5's at 1/4th the cost of his ss amp.
the s-c amp has better resolution, and far more air and musicalilty, he is now selling his analogue puccini. he also contacted me as he is interested in getting another amp, like the welborne-labs-modded dynaco st70.
cheers!
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it's a common misconception that tubed equipt lack punch. in reality, tubed equipt give excellent bass
though admittedly not as tight as their solid-state counterparts'. you'd be wondering where the bass comes from listening to a 15 watt '60s scott integrated amp driving 87db mission 773e or 88db b&w dm-303
speakers.
roni, the monoblocks you saw or heard at the shop
was a pair of all-out no cost-object single-ended 300b power amps somebody commissioned me to build for him (and it's P180k for the pair). whew, that's really scary but this is not the stuff i usually sell. they're usually P10k-P20k restored vintage amps or stock dyna stereo 70's from P20k-p25k or my favorite hot-rodded chrome stereo 70 at P40k. btw guys if you need personal computers or computer peripherals or accessories, roni's the man. just pm him for your needs.
about the x-10d, stay with the stock tubes. the tubes that would cause substantial changes on the x-10d
sound would cost the same as the x-10d itself. i'm talking of siemens cca's, telefunken ecc88's or mullard
ecc88's here.
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1. meron akong mf x10-d na ang tube...
-snipped-
3. meron akong nabasa dati na cd-player i think marantz ang brand nya na me tube sa loob nito maganda ba ito at meron ba niyan dito at magkano kaya.
Hi Rony,
Ok pala pare e, meron ka na ng X-10D. Isang hakbang na yan patungong tubes. Actually, tube na nga yan. ;) Pero, mukhang naubusan na ako ng sasagutin dito ah. Sinagot na ng mga kapatid natin sa pananampaltayang tubes halos lahat ng tanung mo. Pare, nahihirapan na ako. I-inglesin ko na to para umiksi. Hehe ;D . Pasensya na pre’. ;)
Sagutin ko na lang ang #3 question mo, yun lang ang medyo nawisikan lang ng sagot :) . Well, for starters, the main parts in a typical cd player are usually the cd transport mechanism, the digital-to-analog converter (DAC), power-supply, and the output stage. Moreover, most players use a very simple one-component solution for the output stage and it's called an Operational Amplifier (op-amp). Huwag ka magalala, nahilo rin ako nung inumpisahan ko to. ;)
Actually pare, there are a number of tubed/valved cd players in the market, one is the MF Nu-Vista 3D choke-regulated cd player with the rare nuvistor tubes, another is the Jolida JD100 tubed cd player, and the yet to be released and perhaps the most aesthetically striking, is the Music Hall CD-T100 cd player. You really ought to see it so that you'll know what I mean, here’s the link:http://www.responseaudio.com/CDTP.htm (http://www.responseaudio.com/CDTP.htm) :o :o :o
Then there are companies that modify these Marantz cd players you mentioned. Two comes to mind and both are Dutch: Ah! Njoe Tjoeb (pronounced as “aha new tube”) and Heart (pronounced as…eh “heart” ::) ). Why Marantz you say? Well, aside from it being mass produced (“cheap” in other words), one of the main reasons is because of its Philips Servo drive. It's already a proven and time tested drive that is used on numerous "high end" players and transports.
Anyways, Ah! originally came out with the Tjoeb ’98 then the Tjoeb ’99. And to date, owner Herman van den Dungen has released his latest cd player: the Njoeb Tjoeb 4000. This is essentially a Marantz CD4000 cd player modified with a tubed DAC, hence the “4000” moniker. Ah! offers a variety of tweaks for their li’l player. Aside from changing the stock 6922 tubes to the more popular Siemens 7308, they have these what they call “Ah! Tjoeb Tjoens Op-amp Flavor Kits”, and comes in two... eh "flavors": LC Audio AD825 op-amp or the Burr Brown OPA627 op-amp. An absolute tweakers' delight. ;)
Then there’s the Heart brand manufactured by hi-fi dealer Rik Stoet, who owns a small Dutch company that also manufactures tube amplifiers. Stoet though has a more extensive line-up compared to Ah!’s. These are the CD4000, CD5000 and CD6000. Yes, they carry the same model designations as w/ their stock Marantz counterpart (I must say, they ain’t very imaginative in naming their models :-\ ). But Stoet goes a step further than Ah!’s valved DAC, this is by eliminating all op-amps from the signal path in favour of an all-tube output stage. If you check Audio Asylum, most of the AA “inmates” pick the Heart's over the Tjoeb's, specially those who own both cd players. But of course this is, again, very subjective. ;)
So pare, napahaba na naman ako. Pasensya na. May pagka-insomniac kasi ako e. :-\
Sa susunod ulit,
-Racio 8)
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Just wanted to add information on Racio's informative post.
The Music Hall CD-T100 is actually a Shanling CD player (CD-T100). Musical Hall obtained the distributorship of the said CD Player for the US market. Shanling is actually a Chinese company that makes various electronic products. If you decide to get this cd player, buy it in Asia since it's true price is almost half of Musical Hall's $1,900.
http://www.shanling.com/html/CD-T100e.htm
Cheers.
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hey corrsty i used to listen to missions-702s, connected to an hafler pro amp, a diy dact phono stage, and a technics turntable-courtesy of my uncle, a real pro. except for the missions and a pair of nht super ones (great little speakers!), we had nothing but big jbl's and yamaha's. but that was before my uncle married and went back to ticao island, masbate...
...right now i play cd's on my computer, w/klispch promedias, that's why i'm interested in the real klipsch-these play LOUD, and reading this thread i was intrigued with pairing them with tube gear. yup, i've 'heard' tubes and i certainly acknowledge their mystique, but being used to powerful amps and speaker-busting playing levels-well...
...'course, i've read somewhere that "you do not use a Ferrari to haul lumber."
actually, i've got another thread where i'm seeking advice on a home theater setup. this forum has been very informative, to the point that i'm now primarily looking for a music-only, two-channel setup. loudness is no longer an issue, but versatility still is: i want to explore music beyond new wave, metal or whatever adolescent stuff i used to listen to.
i'm seriously considering an arcam a85/dynaudio pairing. i heard the contour 1.1, but i'll likely end up with the audience 52 coz there's no way i can afford both the contour and the krell amplification it deserves.
for the source i'd like to listen to the sound of sacd before making a decision. i heard the dynaudios with a cal audio dx-2 cd player and i did hear the merits of (even an older model) dedicated player over a primarily dvd machine, even over a high-end one like pioneer's 838: for the price of an 838 i can get a true cd player plus a dvd/cd-rw/mp3 compatible like the pioneer 533-and of course i still have my computer. but there may be a case for the new formats...
as for tubes, sorry, i'm strictly a beginner, man, got to learn to swim before straying into the 'deep water'.
i think this is really the main issue against tubes: unlike plug-and-play ss gear, you need to have experience, be very well-informed, have access to people who can answer your questions.
but i don't agree with the statement that tubes are for "pasosyal"-types: gear is just a means to listen to music, if it has the added effect of bringing you into contact with like-minded people-hey, that's even better!
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-snipped-
as for tubes, sorry, i'm strictly a beginner, man, got to learn to swim before straying into the 'deep water'.
i think this is really the main issue against tubes: unlike plug-and-play ss gear, you need to have experience, be very well-informed, have access to people who can answer your questions.
but i don't agree with the statement that tubes are for "pasosyal"-types: gear is just a means to listen to music, if it has the added effect of bringing you into contact with like-minded people-hey, that's even better!
Hi notaku,
Well, I can’t agree with you more that for a newbie, "going tubes" is really intimidating. Believe it or not, just March of this year, I was definitely more of a beginner then than you are right now. During that time, I was only interested in just getting my very first dvd player and 5.1 receiver. I was absolutely clueless about tubes, to the extent that if you’d shown me then a KT88 on one hand and a Philips screw-in 60W bulb on the other, I would’ve thought that they’re the same, and would have just pointed-out that one’s “frosted” and the other isn’t! :-\
It so happen that I was totally taken aback by stuazon’s VAC during the HT EB, I felt that I owe to myself to learn more about the mystical world of tubes. I’m sure you’re well aware that the net offers an abundance of information about valve amplification, and most provide a good read for even the technically challenged. I can’t say that a couple more hours of surfing would hurt. And then I met hyperaudio (RR), who in his own right, is a walkin'-talkin' tube encyclopedia. ;)
I, too, didn’t know how to “swim”, but I instinctively dove the deep waters like an infantile kingfisher and grabbed my very first catch. Right, without prior experience, just a bit of info stuck in me head, and the unyielding support from fellow members like manila, M_Shoe_Maker, eejit, vacuumtubes, stuazon, hyperaudio et al, I took the plunge and grabbed myself a pre-owned pair of tubed monoblocks. :D
Needless to say, my wife was aghast when she first saw what I just brought home! She thought that some shrewd salesman sold me an ol’ pair of weird looking chandeliers. ;D
And now, I've me own li’l piece of “sonic heaven”, if you will. I must admit though that I’m still learning a lot from this hobby. It’s a continuing process. But what hobby out there isn’t? It’s like buying a... car; it’s just an appliance ‘till you start tinkering with it and becomes your personal pursuit for leisure and contentment… a hobby. ;)
-Racio 8)
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thank you hyperaudio na ikabit ko na yong x-10d na binili ko sa yo. mas maganda ang inilalabas na tunog nito kesa dati ko. meron nga pala kong di nakuha na cd sa yong scarlet III nawala na rin sa isisp ko. babalik ako sa yo tomorrow wednesday. again ty at naihanap mo ko ng mf x-10d.
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anytime rony! thanks! you're on your way to audio nirvana.
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anytime rony! thanks! you're on your way to audio nirvana.
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thank you hyperaudio na ikabit ko na yong x-10d na binili ko sa yo. mas maganda ang inilalabas na tunog nito kesa dati ko. meron nga pala kong di nakuha na cd sa yong scarlet III nawala na rin sa isisp ko. babalik ako sa yo tomorrow wednesday. again ty at naihanap mo ko ng mf x-10d.
Way to go rony!!! :)
-Racio 8)
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Reposting
My present audio set up utilizes a 50 watt per channel Sonic Frontier power amplifier, a Conrad Johnson pre-ampifier, an Enlightened Audio CD Player, a pair of B&W DM 602 S3 speakers. I am using big, branded interconnect and speaker cables as well. The sound is superb and really live especially on a dedicated listening room specially designed for the joint home theater and audio room. Lately, however, I notice humming and hissing sounds occasionally coming out of from playing vocals, and heavly bassed musical instruments. Is the trouble coming out of my tubes? Or my cables? or defective CDs? It is not consistent in all CDs I play. Please advise.
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Reposting
I saw them in a shop in Park Square in Makati. It is somewhere in between Upscale Audio and Sound Dimensions. The tube amps look pretty impressive and expensive and big. The front panel is black and says "Audio Tube", the back says "Made In Metro Manila" or something like that. There are two models, one is 50wpc and the other is 100wpc.
The rear has a switch to select 4 ohms or 8ohms. It also has another switch to select pentode or triode.
They also have a version of the power amp with one line level input, meaning you can only connect it to one component and it has two volume controls, one per channel.
They seem to be reasonable priced, the 50wpc going for P16,000, and if you get the one with the volume control (which is probably more like a passive pre-amp) then you have sort of like an-all tube integrated amp.
Has anyone seen them or tried them? I would want opinions! Thanks.
Jovi
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Reposting
I have heard 3 different types of these amps. that are all made here in M.M. Thet were the S.E.T. types anf I must say that they are good efforts at Tube Jobs. Only one produced good sound. I will not mention the names of the amps. to avoid controversy kilala ko kasi lahat yung gumawa most of these jobs were the 300Bs and the 2A3s. One comment though these amps. lack the power supply heft and parts quality e.g. MIT caps, Roderstein resistors, Cerafine electrolytics etc. etc. but this is me speaking.
the best thing that you could do is to audition the amps. and do a close inspection on them. At those prices pwede na but be careful.
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Reposting
I have heard 3 different types of these amps. that are all made here in M.M. Thet were the S.E.T. types anf I must say that they are good efforts at Tube Jobs. Only one produced good sound. I will not mention the names of the amps. to avoid controversy kilala ko kasi lahat yung gumawa most of these jobs were the 300Bs and the 2A3s. One comment though these amps. lack the power supply heft and parts quality e.g. MIT caps, Roderstein resistors, Cerafine electrolytics etc. etc. but this is me speaking.
the best thing that you could do is to audition the amps. and do a close inspection on them. At those prices pwede na but be careful.
When you say only one amp produced "good sound", what exactly do you mean by that? Also, what was the sonic characteristic of most of these amps that made them sound deficient for you? Did they lack detail? Bass? Clarity? Warmth? Do you think it would be possible to buy a tweaked version of this amp with high-quality parts?
Also, for the price, do you get the "tube sound" already, or would a cheap restored tube integrated/receiver be better for the first foray to tubes? I have no tube experience pa kasi but I am really intrigued on trying one out sometime in the future.
Jovi
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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D. Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.
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hey levi, congrats!
i myself have recently moved to tube gear (as originally planned) as i now have Anthem Pre-1L and Anthem Amp-1 driving my pair of Infinity Kappa 200.
si andrewsj is going tubes na din ah...
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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D. Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.
hi levi!
sabihin mo lang sa akin kung kailan mo itatapon sa bintana yung Yamaha mo para maka-abang ako... ha ha!
anyways, please send me a PM on how much you got them and some of the amps' specs, if you can.
tuff
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hi levi!
anyways, please send me a PM on how much you got them and some of the amps' specs, if you can.
sayang! i was there last tue at hyper's place, saw your scott kaya lang wed mo pa ata kukunin. nauna lang ako ng isang araw sana naki-audition na rin ako sa inyo. ;)
am still undecided kasi if i'll upgrade my AVR or just buy an integrated amp (tubes or solid) for my listening pleasures. 8)
thanks.
Blade. 8)
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Hey levi ;)
Heard the news from hyperaudio :)
Congratulations on your new toy and welcome to the wonderful world of tubes :)
Please do let us know of your listening discoveries with your new tube gear :)
Enjoy !
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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D. Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.
hi levi!
sabihin mo lang sa akin kung kailan mo itatapon sa bintana yung Yamaha mo para maka-abang ako... ha ha!
anyways, please send me a PM on how much you got them and some of the amps' specs, if you can.
tuff
Hyper gave me a good price. It is hard to compare the prices because, your dealing with second hand items. It will be case to case basis. I just told Hyperaudio my budget and to inform me whenever he finds a good amp that would fit. Ilang weeks ko din binalikbalikan pero sulit naman. Actually I even tag along my Dad to help me audition. Another thing I also considered is after sales service and no problem naman kay hyper.
Blade,
Medyo nawala nga interest ko sa receiver upgrade after getting the Scott. Delay ko na muna expenses sa HT lipat ko muna sa audio. Sabi nga ni Toobs mas magastos ang audio. There is still one more Scott kay Hyper, I think naka post ngayon sa Assorted B&S but I got the lower wattage lang. More than enough na sa requirement ko.
Thanks Arnoldc and Jong.
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Hi Levi,
Glad to hear that you are now into tube audio. Like I told you, this is just the start of this expensive hobby.
The best part of using tube equipment is the possibility of using different brand/make of tubes. Every brand of tube have their own sonic flavor. Each time you plug in a different brand of tube makes you listen to a different amp. Unlike using SS, you need to replace the whole equipment to get the needed improvement.
Tube rolling is the fun part in using tube equipment.
So your next quest is to find other tubes whether brand new or used to try out in your Scott amp. Don't get hung up with popular brands, get a set of each brand you can find and it will also serve as your backup. Also, do not overlook used tubes. As long as it tests good it will surely give you plenty of service.
Enjoy,
Toobs
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naku di ko na nafofollow up kay mr. Rene yung pinapa-repair ko na scott 299d , bigla ko naalala :)
levi, what output tubes you're using? do you know anyone here in manila who has a quad 7591 NOS? or even a used one?
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Thanks toobs.
I have to know more before changing the tubes.
Dondon,
Im not sure if it is the output tube Philips EL84. Sorry but Im not yet familiar with the tubes.
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Blade,
Medyo nawala nga interest ko sa receiver upgrade after getting the Scott. I got the lower wattage lang. More than enough na sa requirement ko.
bro levi
ako din baka dina muna magupgrade ng AVR ilalagay ko na lang sa budget ko for an integrated amp (tubes will do ;D ;D) ilang watts ba yung Scott mo? will try to sell either my dm303 or mission702e pangdagdag sa budget. hyper already gave me quote for the other Scott. how is the Scott's performance when used with your 602S3s?
thanks........
Blade. 8)
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Blade,
My Scott is only 20wpc according to Hyper. It was able to drive the 805 and the 601 of Rene easily. It can also drive and bring out the best from my 303. My 602 is for my HT but I tried testing it also. I prefer the Scott with the 602 because the music has more body, but its too bulky for my stands. Another thing is, it does not blend well with the furnitures unlike the 303. I will wait for a next project nalang so I can upgrade my AVR. Its not a priority anymore, I dont use it na nga because happy ako with my new toy at mura lang.
I think the other Scott is more powerful but more expensive. Okay na sa akin ito, beginner palang naman ako. I will upgrade soon and i can use this for my room.
Levi
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Tubeys,
If you want a more powerful Scott integrated, look for the Scott 299D. Its a bit more expensive though.
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Thanks for your replies and comments bro levi & M_Shoe
Will look into the Scott & ST-70, and if budget permits might opt for the STs (preamps will follow na lang).
Will definitely pay His Airness Hyper a visit for an audition and a few rounds of beer. ;D ;D
Blade. 8)
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now playing: all-chrome, souped-up dynakit stereo 70.
here's a rundown of upgrades/highlights involved:
power supply:
1. elna cerafine (bypassed with rtx multicap), sprague atom and panasonic filter capacitors to really clean the high voltage supply and tighten up the bass of the system.
2. metal oxide dropping resistors.
3. souped up power transformer for power reserve to drive inefficient speakers.
4. ultra-fast diode (with snubber) on bias supply for stable bias even on high transient signals.
5. iec sockets to let you optimize power cord choice.
signal and output circuits:
1. rtx multicap coupling capacitors.
2. allen-bradley carbon comp resistors used throughout for dynamics, dynamic bloom and liquidity.
3. 5% polypropylene capacitors on feedback and filter circuits for signal accuracy.
4. triode/ultralinear switching.
tubes used:
1. el-34, nos siemens quad.
2. 7199, nos rca pair.
3. 5ar4/gz34, amperex (made by mullard, great britain).
hardware:
1. gold-plated inputs (rca jacks) and outputs (5-way binding posts).
2. gold-plated ceramic tube sockets for driver and output tubes.
3. silver plated copper wiring and silvered solder used throughout.
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Rene,
St-70 pa rin yan hindi ka na ba nagsasawa diyan.
Si Erik to sa LA iba naman after 13 years iyan parin.
Marami na rin akong binaklas na ST-70 buti naibebenta
ko kahit na nawalang hiya. Mas gusto ko iyong version ng Hico o yung ST-35 mayroon nga yung kaibigan kong
Italyano na Hi-co na EL-84 mas maganda ang tunog sa
CJ Premiere One. Single Ended Amp naman pag nasanay
ka sa tunog ng Western Electric 300B lahat ng tubo ay
pangit ang tunog.
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pareng erik,
kahit nakasubok/nakagawa na ko ng iba-ibang klaseng 300B, 2A3, 45, vt-25, vt-52 atbpang single-ended amps, babalik at babalik ka pa rin sa st-70. may magic ito, pare. iba ang lagkit ng tunog. tapos iparis mo sa ls-3/5a
at preamp na pas-3 or foreplay, tapos na ang kuwento.
correction pare; 20 years na tayong tubero.
p.s. padalhan mo ko ng st-35 kung mayroon.
regards,
rene
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Rene,
Mayroon Hi-co na mono blocks yung kaibigan ko na
EL-84 PP puede natin mahila yon kung interesado ka. Ito
ang mga amps niya na balak ibenta Mac Mc-30, MC-60,
maraming scott tuner 350B, kung gusto mo yung CJ na
Premiere One for sale din at yung CAT SL-1 pre-amp pati
yung CAT ko available din tagal kong naloko nitong pre-amp na ito.
Mahirap nang bumalik sa PP huling amp ko ay PP
na 300B gawa ni Kevin Kennedy pero nung SET ako binenta ko kaagad. Pag natikman mo ang original WE300B from 1960's, 50's, 40's and specially yung ukit
version at full range na JBL L300 with 15" woofer lahat
ng speakers unano ang tunog hindi namimili ng tunog
ma full scale orchestra o accapella tulo ang laway mo.
Sa SET 300B lang ang gusto ko the rest nang mga triode
ay joker na lang. Mayrooon akong 10Y/VT-25 amp ginagamit ko para sa Altec VOT Flamenco speakers
pero hindi magustuhan ang tunog ewan ko bakit
gustong gusto nila ang Altec speakers. Mayroon din akong 604E, 605A ganoon din ang tunog ang lakas nang
influensia nang Altec dominant ang tunog at nagriring pa
at beams parang flashlight.
Mayroon akong kaibigan na may freight co. dito si Ogie
pero base siya Manila pero andito siya. Shipper ni JR
at gusto niyang idispatsa yung CJ MV-125 at PV-12
niya pag-uwi next year patatwagin ko siya sa iyo.
Erik,
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hello ambe/erik,
Mukang good ol' tube stuff yang mga yan ah. :)
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mga bro.
help naman, may kilala ba kayo na nagbebenta ng 7591 tubes? oks na pala scott ko gawa na, ang di lang okey yung 4 na output tubes, bumibigay na daw sabi mr. rene.
7591 electro harmonix daw, dikit na dikit masyado sa output, pati yung sa torres engineering and sovtek ganun din malaki ng konti ang diameter 35 mm. yung scott 299D ko kasi early version s#215080, malaki and output transformer.
also check out e-bay there is a scott 299D (early version), same as what i have. looks okey. :)
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M_SHOE_MAKER,
Istambay din ako nung araw sa mga Audio shop sa
Maynila 10 years ago. Ito ang mga hang out ko kay
Rene, Mang JB sa MCS, Reference sa QUAD and Greenhills, and Listening Room ni JR.
Ito ang mga barkada ko noon Lito Manalo, Bert Dimayuga, Aries, paminsan minsan sina Nonong Espiritu,
si Joseph Esmilla nakasama namin kay Mang JB.
Karamihan ng mangbubulok dito sa LA ay kilala ko
mga Koreano at Insik. Maganda pa rin ang ST-70
kung stock aplitan lang ang coupling at filter caps.
Halos lahat ng vintage amp ay nasubukan ko na
TMW too much work ang pika gusto ko sa vintage ay
ang Marantz 8B at MAC 30 okey din ang Ei-co ST-70.
Okey lang ang mga ito pag naka bookshelf speakers
once you go full range ito na ang flabby and loose
bass nawawala. So kailangan mo ng modern PP amps
pero nagtutunog SS naman. Ang tagal ko ring papalit
palit ng tube amps itong lately puro SET from Cary to
Sun Audio pero nung ako na ang gumawa ng amp
at sinubukan ko lahat ng tubo at circuit doon lang
ako nasiyahan. Ngayon enjoy na enjoy ako sa stereo
kasi ang concentration ko ay sa music I forget about the
system sa ang effort ko ay na punta sa paghahanap ng
mga original vinyls hindi na ako nakikinig sa mga audiophile recordings at hindi ko rin binibili. Nakatabi na
lang ang mga Sheffield Labs, Chesky, Reference at iba
pang audiofile recordings ko kinokolekta ko na lang.
I look for 6 eye Columbia, Blue note, Cleef, Contemporary Labels.
Erik,
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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D. Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.
Hey Lev,
That's fantastic! Welcome to "tubophilia" pare! You've now entered a whole new world in audio. I'm sure next thing I'll know, you're tube rolling you EL-84s already. Enjoy bud!!! ;)
-Racio 8)
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Helo Erik,
Kay Mang JV rin ako tumatambay dati. Noong unang panahon, ;D nung una ko siyang nakilala, akala isa siyang bolero. ;D
Una: Sabi niya, masmaganda ang tubo kaysa solid state. Sabi ko, paano mangyayari yun, pang lolo na yung mga tubo? ;D Pinarinig sa akin yung ST70 vs iba ibang solid state amps. Ayun, convinced ako.
Pangalawa: Sabi niya, mas maganda and turntable kaysa CD. Sabi ko, Ano? CD is "Perfect Sound Forever"! Pinarinig niya sa akin ulit ang turntable vs. CD of the same artist and album. Ayun, tapos ang laban, convinced na naman ako.
Di nagtagal, bumili ako ng ST70 at Micro Seiki turntable sa kanya.
After 13 years, naka ST70 at ikot lamesa ;D a.k.a. turntable pa rin ako.
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Hi Levi,
We will be having a tube rolling session this coming saturday.
See email exchanges in the pinoydiophile forum for more details.
I hope to see you there.
Toobs
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what's the link to the pinoydiophile forum?
thanks
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Hi,
Here is the link; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pinoydiophiles/
toobs
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Hi Levi,
We will be having a tube rolling session this coming saturday.
See email exchanges in the pinoydiophile forum for more details.
I hope to see you there.
Toobs
Toobs
Sayang, Im scheduled to visit the in laws on Sat so wala akong kawala. Maybe next time and thanks for the offer.
Levi
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what tubes are compatible with the dynakit PAS 3 pre-amp? are they fairly easy to find?
thanks!
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Hello tuff_u_gong,
The PAS2/3 have the following tubes:
(2) 12AX7 for the Line Stage
(2) 12AX7 for the Phono Stage
(1) 12X4 for the power supply
12AX7s are relatively easy to find. The 12X4 is quite difficult but still available.
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Mods, you may transfer this post to the appropriate thread as you see fit but the people who can answer the following noob questions are all here;
1. What is push pull and what is single-ended?
2. I know diodes, but what are triodes?
3. How exactly do vaccuum tubes work? Why are they called valves?
4. If vaccuum tubes are so great for audio, why isn't there a tube revival so that more people can enjoy great sound? Why is it that only high-end manufacturers are into tubes?
5. What is a Class A gear? Who sets the standard and determines if a gear is Class A or not?
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Mods, you may transfer this post to the appropriate thread as you see fit but the people who can answer the following noob questions are all here;
1. What is push pull and what is single-ended?
2. I know diodes, but what are triodes?
3. How exactly do vaccuum tubes work? Why are they called valves?
4. If vaccuum tubes are so great for audio, why isn't there a tube revival so that more people can enjoy great sound? Why is it that only high-end manufacturers are into tubes?
5. What is a Class A gear? Who sets the standard and determines if a gear is Class A or not?
try visiting:
http://www.wiredstate.com/pinoydiophiles/
some questions are discussed there. feel free to post there as well....a lot of "tuberos" there :-)
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Stradale,
I split and merged your post here. You can also check this thread Vacuum Tubes Overview (http://www.pinoydvd.com/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=1632). Thanks
Levi
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vaccuum tube amps really sound sweet and is not tiring to listen to...however tubes suffer from material depletion as time goes by in that its fillament becomes weaker and electron emissions become lesser with continued use...solid state on the other hand does not have this phenomenon...it is either good or busted...you have to replace your tubes at least after one year with new ones...
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bump ;D
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mga audio gods,
sirs, why do some tube amps lack the punch (bass) needed in some music passages? i've read that tube amp designs have compromises. if you want that thump, the mid and highs will suffer and vice-versa. pero richness and clarity wise, tube amps are miles away from s-s amps. bakit pati hindi masakit sa tenga, pagtapos mong makinig ng music using tube amps?
the output transformer design has a lot of compromises, what is the low freq cut off point ? is it 30, 20 or perhaps 10hz? these figures connotes different cost as more copper and laminate materials will be needed as you go down in frequency, how about the highs? how shall we interleave the windings to achieve minimal leakage inductance and interwinding capacitance, how about core saturation in set amps? i think the primary consideration would be cost, how much are you willing to pay for performance.....my two cents....
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which is why tamura output trannies are expensive....
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kahit nakasubok/nakagawa na ko ng iba-ibang klaseng 300B, 2A3, 45, vt-25, vt-52 atbpang single-ended amps, babalik at babalik ka pa rin sa st-70. may magic ito, pare. iba ang lagkit ng tunog. tapos iparis mo sa ls-3/5a
at preamp na pas-3 or foreplay, tapos na ang kuwento.
correction pare; 20 years na tayong tubero.
amen to this, and to think that the st70 was not a high end amp at the time, it was meant for the masses so to speak....qaulity need not be expensive....
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Tube gurus, if you please. Kindly enlighten those of us who have survived the heydays of PMPO, Pro-Logic, and Dolby but have finally seen the light in faint orange cylinders of glass. Allow me to shoot the first round of questions:
1. Is it correct to assume that most of the 300Bs, 2A3s, etc. that pinoydiophiles own are DIY amps? Is going the DIY route the best way to tube amp ownership?
2. Are Hammond audio transformers any good? How do they compare to Tamura or Tango pricewise and soundwise? Are there others worth buying?
3. What are chokes for? To clean up the power supply?
4. Where would you spend your money if had one choice only, on good iron or on good tubes?
5. What type of tube amps come in pairs and what come in a single chassis? What factor dictates this?
6. Is it correct to assume that most gurus prefer SET amps to push-pull amps? Why?
7. How come push pull amps have more power? Is the ST70 push-pull? How can one tell?
8. You've got the high efficiency speakers and your tube amp, what other money draining thing do you need to spend on? (aside from your sources & cables)
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Tube gurus, if you please.
If you'd welcome a non-tube guru's thoughts, here are mine:
1. Is it correct to assume that most of the 300Bs, 2A3s, etc. that pinoydiophiles own are DIY amps? Is going the DIY route the best way to tube amp ownership?
I don't have statistics but my impresions is most SET-using Pinoydiophiles either built their amps from the ground up (e.g., ArnoldC, Mickey, Toobs, etc.) or started with a commercially available model then modded it (Racio, AudioNote2003, etc.).
Going DIY / commercial have their pros & cons. Remember also that there are stuff that blurs the lines of both DIY & commercial amps. See Hypertriode's stuff.
4. Where would you spend your money if had one choice only, on good iron or on good tubes?
I'd go for balance. One of the most valuable lessons I learned since meeting Vintage Dog, Toobs, johnmarc0, etc. is that it's not guaranteed that if you put all the high-end, "botique" parts, you'd get great sound.
A lot of it boils down to taste also.
5. What type of tube amps come in pairs and what come in a single chassis? What factor dictates this?
Pairs? The more common execution of "pairs" is monoblock amps, i.e., each channel comes in its own chassis.
The advantage of this approach is you have separate power supplies for each channel (though you can also have "dual-mono" construction in 1 chassis). You can also get the amps closer to your speakers thus calling for shorter speaker cable runs. If you're using Kondo-san's KSL-SPz, that means very significant savings.
Another execution is designers separate the power supplies from the gain and output stages. I'm not sure what benefits this gives but I suspect less power supply-induced noise affects the part where signal is amplified.
6. Is it correct to assume that most gurus prefer SET amps to push-pull amps? Why?
VD onse said that at times, there are music or things in the music that he can only get when listening to push pulls.
SET has more stringent requirements than push-pulls in terms of speaker matching specially, both in terms of impedance and sensitivity across the audible frequency range.
While I am a firm believer in the magic SET's posses, my problem has been finding speakers that simultaneously are: to my ear's liking, able to fit in my small listening area, and something I can afford.
7. How come push pull amps have more power? Is the ST70 push-pull? How can one tell?
Yes, ST70 is PP.
I'd leave the "how can one tell" part to the experts.
There are high power SETs like
http://www.wavac-audio.gr.jp/he833_e.html
But even the more "affordable" higher power SETs like those based on the 211 are thought of as having missed the point of the less powerful 300B, 2A3, VT-52, etc.
8. You've got the high efficiency speakers and your tube amp, what other money draining thing do you need to spend on? (aside from your sources & cables)
You'd like some tube dampers like those from Hal-O.
You'd also like to keep a spare set of tubes, if not build a collection. :D
You'd like to mod later on...amorphous or silver tansformers (there is a raging debate on this), higher grade caps (or replacing them with more trannies), resistors, silver wiring, etc.
You'd also like to get other types of SETs...so you listen to xxx SET for aaa music using 111 speaker, yyy SET for bbb music for 222 speaker, etc. :D
Other things to spend on are pretty much like non-SET, non-high sens speakers, basically. :D
Oh, post this query on Pinoydiophiles...you may get more responses.
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guys i'm planning to buy a low-end tube amp mas oks b un separate un power amp at pre-amp or un magksama na?? at kelangan ba merong bass & treble o wla?? kung wlang bass & treble wla n ba dapat ilagay para ma-enhance un lo & hi freq???
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Whew! Thanks for taking the time to answer rtsy. I posted this thread on PinoyDVD so that more tube noobies like me can learn from pinoydiophile regulars like you who frequently visit this forum and might care to share their knowledege.
I heard Rene's 2A3 in action recently and at 3.5-wpc I couldn't believe the authority by which it delivered the music. Ang bigat ng dating. It got me reading about Joseph Esmilla and his SETUP group, angela.com, the resurgence of DIY tube hobbyism etc. Its a fascinating new world for me, one which I hope will catch on within PinoyDVD.
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to chime in...i guess another factor to consider in tube amp diy would be a source for inexpensive (misnomer?) tubes and locally made (or is it wound) but sturdily-built transformers and chokes.
which brings me to my first question; what is a choke? thanks.
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Why don't i see many tube amps using toroidal transformers and chokes. I've come across an internet article expousing the virtues of this type to make better sounding SETs. (Am trying to retrieve the site.)
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Why don't i see many tube amps using toroidal transformers and chokes. I've come across an internet article expousing the virtues of this type to make better sounding SETs. (Am trying to retrieve the site.)
I think you are referring to plitron torroids wound specifically for tube output, in their site they have push pull designs using torroids. I inquired a local tube amp maker and the price he quoted me for this push pull design (40w x 2) is 30,000. as for the SET's using torroids the article is from meta-gizmo.net(not sure).
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a choke is for better rectification,
a toroidal transformer does not always mean it is better,
the hammond 125ESE kicks ass for it's price, but i have something that kicks its ass and even the more expensive hammond,
separate ba na power amp at pre-amp o integrated? choice mo yan.... (i have both)
dapat ba may tone control? choice mo din yan... (ako ayaw ko)
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Why don't i see many tube amps using toroidal transformers and chokes. I've come across an internet article expousing the virtues of this type to make better sounding SETs. (Am trying to retrieve the site.)
try this:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10976&highlight=torroid+transformer (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10976&highlight=torroid+transformer)or this:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1712&highlight=torroid+transformer
(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1712&highlight=torroid+transformer)
a torroid as opposed to the traditional EI core has no air gap and as such easily saturates, very difficult to wind coils in as the number of turns can eacily come close to a thousand....that may be the reason it is never seen around tube equipment...
here is another good discussion:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12611&highlight=torroid+transformer (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12611&highlight=torroid+transformer)
and onother:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16465&highlight=torroid+transformer (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16465&highlight=torroid+transformer)
still another:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12591 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12591)
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@sir arnoldc, in choosing between a SET or PP amp, what would i be missing if i were to take the integrated route vis a vis the pre/power set-up? would you be so kind to explain/enumerate the pros and cons of each path (integrated vs. pre/power). thanks.
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john5479, sent u pm. thanks
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@sir arnoldc, in choosing between a SET or PP amp, what would i be missing if i were to take the integrated route vis a vis the pre/power set-up? would you be so kind to explain/enumerate the pros and cons of each path (integrated vs. pre/power). thanks.
itong sagot ko ay based on personal preference ha, so take it with a grain of salt ;)
when i built my first SET amp, i chose to have it integrated with passive volume control lang. reason is i want to hear the tubes with less coloration from other components (shortest signal path), and i am pleased with the results.
the second amp i built is a 300B and this time i chose to make it just a power amp. this gave me the flexibility to use passive and active pre-amps which were all satisfying. different pre-amps gave a different sound. whether or not you like it that way is subjective.
it also gave me a chance to experiment on different pre-amps. i made a foreplay with 12AU7 and it sounds great, and cheap. i now have 76 and 407A pre-amp projects in line.
in general, if i want less coloration in music playback, i'd go for the simplest circuit (read: the least capacitor and resistor in the signal path, the best is NONE). sometimes, you want more gain, then you need an active pre-amp.
integrated: two types - active and passive
pre-amps: two types - active and passive
passive - no gain, no coloration
active - more gain, more coloration
coloration does not mean good or bad, it's subjective.
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@sir arnoldc, in choosing between a SET or PP amp, what would i be missing if i were to take the integrated route vis a vis the pre/power set-up? would you be so kind to explain/enumerate the pros and cons of each path (integrated vs. pre/power). thanks.
I am not arnoldc but here's what I think...
INTEGRATED
Pros:
1--1 less interconnect, 2 less connectors
2--1 or 2 or more (if using monoblock power amps and/or passive pres) less power cord
3--less space taken in rack
4--no matching issues
Cons:
1--when you upgrade, you change the whole thing. with separates, you can choose up upgrade one section at a time.
2--less flexibilitym e.g., you want tubed pre, S/S power amp, etc.
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the million dollar question:
newbie : "i am a newbie and would like to get into tubes. should i go SET or PP? btw, i also have limited budget"
the 2 cents perspective:
SET (single ended triode) is not for everyone. the more common ones (using 2A3, 45, 300b) usually give you some 2-8 watts per channel, which is more than enough if you have high-sensitivity speakers. you also need a good preamp to partner it with for better control and added gain. all told, expect to spend some p50k on a good SET amp, a preamp and a high-sensitivity speakers.
Integrated PP could be a good ticket into tubes. they are simple to operate and could give you sufficient power to drive your existing speakers. there are numerous alternatives. a good practical approach is thorugh vintage integrated amps. not only do they have superior parts (eg. transformers), but when properly restored, could sound better than commercial ones at much lower cost.
i have over 40 tube amp...from 2A3, 45, 300b SET amps to vintage amps from 10wpc to 35 watts per channel PP. there are days i like to listen to my SETs - they are clean sounding and very revealing, but there are days i just play my vintage PP amps - they are gutsy and musical. i live with both and can't part with one or the other ;)
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This is good. The tube gurus are coming out of the woodworks. I'd like to insert a few more noob questions if you don't mind:
a choke is for better rectification,
The choke is a rectifier then? Is the AC power supply converted to DC and rectified before being fed to the OPT's? The OPT's are DC? The current fed to the tubes is DC?
the hammond 125ESE kicks ass for it's price, but i have something that kicks its ass and even the more expensive hammond,
Ito ba yung kinabit mo sa 10k amp? ;). Seriously, are Hammonds worthy alternatives to Tamura's?
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the million dollar question:
newbie : "i am a newbie and would like to get into tubes. should i go SET or PP? btw, i also have limited budget"
the 2 cents perspective:
SET (single ended triode) is not for everyone. the more common ones (using 2A3, 45, 300b) usually give you some 2-8 watts per channel, which is more than enough if you have high-sensitivity speakers. you also need a good preamp to partner it with for better control and added gain. all told, expect to spend some p50k on a good SET amp, a preamp and a high-sensitivity speakers.
Integrated PP could be a good ticket into tubes. they are simple to operate and could give you sufficient power to drive your existing speakers. there are numerous alternatives. a good practical approach is thorugh vintage integrated amps. not only do they have superior parts (eg. transformers), but when properly restored, could sound better than commercial ones at much lower cost.
i have over 40 tube amp...from 2A3, 45, 300b SET amps to vintage amps from 10wpc to 35 watts per channel PP. there are days i like to listen to my SETs - they are clean sounding and very revealing, but there are days i just play my vintage PP amps - they are gutsy and musical. i live with both and can't part with one or the other ;)
Vintage,
Im using an Scott integrated amp with el84 tubes. Im thinking of getting an ST70 and preamp. Do you think its worth the upgrade for the cost or just save up for a higher brand? Im using Rotel CDP and B&W603 speakers. Thanks
Levi
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The choke is a rectifier then? Is the AC power supply converted to DC and rectified before being fed to the OPT's? The OPT's are DC? The current fed to the tubes is DC?
a choke stores current, whereas a capacitor stores electric charge(voltage), a choke is not a rectifier...it is connected to the rectifier so that when the rectifier is off (not forward biased) it releases its current to the load....
The current fed to the tubes is DC?
the output tubes are biased with a dc voltage on the plates thru the output transformer, it changes its plate current is response to a varying input signal at its grid. plate current is at maximum when grid voltage is biased at 0volts and minimum at a certain negativevoltage of -100 say, depending on tube characteristics....
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@stradale, dang! a choke does not rectify! argh! (must be my lunch) :-[
there are many uses for chokes... in a PSU (power supply unit) it FILTERS noise... the reactance of the choke reduces the amplitude of the ripple voltage.
the PSU normally has:
power transformer -> rectifier (tube or SS) -> capacitor -> choke -> capacitor
the above is known as CLC
-or-
power transformer -> rectifier (tube or SS) -> choke -> capacitor
also known as Choke-Input
tube circuits have AC and DC components
re: hammond 125ESE, no, it is not the one used on the 10K amp. are they worthy replacement for tamura? it depends. if you can afford a tamura, go for it. as many say, spend the most you can on the iron (OPT transformer). but does a tamura provide 10X the performance for 10X the price (rough example), only you can be the judge.
i've "upgraded" my JE Labs 2A3 from the hammond 125ESE ($35 each) to a MagneQuest DS-025 ($180 each), just for kicks. though the MagneQuest outperforms the hammond, for the price/performance of the hammond, it's hard to beat.
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stardale,
if you realy want to learn more i suggest you go to this site:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=5 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=5)
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i second the motion ;D see you there stradale.
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Thanks for the link joan2 :). Well somebody had to ask the noob questions. But oh look now, I know what choke is ;) and so do other readers of this thread.
Please tube gurus, don't lose patience, because in all probability, more noob questions are coming your way. In the meantime, I'll check out the link that our sis joan2 so kindly provided.
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i don't think joan2 is a she... may be jon-jon? well, only joan2 can say ;)
and by the way, i'm no guru... i'm also one of you.
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Vintage,
Im using an Scott integrated amp with el84 tubes. Im thinking of getting an ST70 and preamp. Do you think its worth the upgrade for the cost or just save up for a higher brand? Im using Rotel CDP and B&W603 speakers. Thanks
Levi
The ST70/preamp combo will be a definite upgrade and this set-up is hard to beat even by today's tube gear. go for a preamp that is non-vintage: a foreplay or other tube-based preamps
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Racio told me that ST-70 is a minimal upgrade coming from the Scott that is why Im having 2nd thoughts if I will push thru with the plan. Its not yet in the near future so i still have time to save up for other brands also. thanks
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don't think joan2 is a she... may be jon-jon? well, only joan2 can say
i am very much a "he" my wife can attest to that, my handle, joan2 had some romantic connotations....let's live it at that.....
i have been an electronics enthusiast since high school. circa 1970. finished electrical engineering at national university in 1975, i also started out with vaccum tubes, then graudated to solid state in the early 70's up to the present....i have a lot of ideas, but no money to work on tubes at this time....solid state is the way for me, less money needed here...i built a lot of leach amps, this amps is the best sounding amp i have ever built...i also build my own transformers, i design them.....
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Racio told me that ST-70 is a minimal upgrade coming from the Scott that is why Im having 2nd thoughts if I will push thru with the plan. Its not yet in the near future so i still have time to save up for other brands also. thanks
from what i have gathered reading magazines, the dynaco st70 was designed by david hafler as an "el cheapo" amp....they never anticipated it would be such a hit that it bacame....
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Actually I was fishing for a reaction with that sis remark because I was beginning to wonder how a gurl knows so much about this decidedly male dominated hobby ;). Well thanks for all your feedback bro joan2. Hope to learn more from you.
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always glad to be of help, all knowledge belongs to GOD and i have no reason to keep it to myself...i am also here:http://www.pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=12746 (http://www.pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=12746)
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.
and by the way, i'm no guru... i'm also one of you.
Don't be so modest Mr. Cruz. You built your first tube amp when you were in high school. Kami, tatay na di pa namin alam kung ano ang choke ;D.
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Question to the gurus:
I read in a forum that tube rectification is better than SS rectification because supposedly tube rectification does not produce any switching noise (?) that results in some sort of brittleness to the sound. But if someone were to use schottsky or HEXFREDS diodes then this switching noise is supposedly eliminated. Has anyone tried this? SS rectification seems cheaper and someone asserted that it produces a more dynamic low-end. What's your verdict here, oh great tube sages? ;D
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.
Don't be so modest Mr. Cruz. You built your first tube amp when you were in high school. Kami, tatay na di pa namin alam kung ano ang choke ;D.
ser, solid state ang ginagawa ko nung high school! first time tube DIYer ako ;D
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Question to the gurus:
I read in a forum that tube rectification is better than SS rectification because supposedly tube rectification does not produce any switching noise (?) that results in some sort of brittleness to the sound. But if someone were to use schottsky or HEXFREDS diodes then this switching noise is supposedly eliminated. Has anyone tried this? SS rectification seems cheaper and someone asserted that it produces a more dynamic low-end. What's your verdict here, oh great tube sages? ;D
again hindi ako guru, based on experience lang ha...
i use fast recovery diodes for my foreplay preamp, i like the sound that way, and is cheap and very easy to build.
i've experimented on hybrid PSU for my 300B... half solid state, half tube and i noticed that although i'm using 5U4G, voltage (B+) ramp up is slower (meaning tubes won't be stressed as much while they heat up). not bad at all.
there are tube rectifiers that offers slow B+ rise, such as 5AR4 which I also have. it has different rating than 5U4G and must be designed accordingly.
is the other one better? i would say it depends on the circuit.
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I read in a forum that tube rectification is better than SS rectification because supposedly tube rectification does not produce any switching noise (?) that results in some sort of brittleness to the sound.
Again, I'm no tube sage but look up the review of the ST70 Series I and II in Enjoy the Music or TNT Audio. They compare tube vs. S/S rectification there.
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Racio told me that ST-70 is a minimal upgrade coming from the Scott that is why Im having 2nd thoughts if I will push thru with the plan. Its not yet in the near future so i still have time to save up for other brands also. thanks
levi, if you have time, drop by the house and we'll audition both the scott 299b and the st70/preamp combo. that way you can decide for yourself if the st70 is an upgrade. :)
i also have to ask you what speaker you intend to use and your budget for your amp. there are of course numerous options. in the PP category, we can audition a few amps at home ;)
of course, there is always the 300b SET amp that racio likes... and we can listen to one as well :)
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OK and thanks. Im usually visit my in-laws in Tahanan village every weekend. I will give you a call if I have nothing to do or next time you have a small eb, I will try to attend. Im using B&W 603 presently for the Scott but I have no plans of changing it for the mean time. I just reoriented again my sala and audio setup and it is sounding great but there is always the question what if.......
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I read in a forum that tube rectification is better than SS rectification because supposedly tube rectification does not produce any switching noise (?) that results in some sort of brittleness to the sound. But if someone were to use schottsky or HEXFREDS diodes then this switching noise is supposedly eliminated. Has anyone tried this? SS rectification seems cheaper and someone asserted that it produces a more dynamic low-end. What's your verdict here, oh great tube sages?
can you post the link here so i can analyse? to me it sounds garbage....consider this:
a solid state diode has an average forward voltage loss of less than 1 volt, a tube rectifier can have as much as 40 volts froward loss, furthermore a tube rectifier needs a 5volt heater at 2amps or so, therefore for an output current of say 100 milliamps, for a solid state diode, 0.1watt is lost, whereas for a tube rectifer, 10.4 watts is lost, so now which one makes more sense?
about the switching issue, both tube and solid state diodes switch from conductive(forward bias) to cut-off or simply off(reverse bias) states based on the nature of the ac voltage inputs which reverse its polarity at a rate of 60 cyccles per second in this country....yes, switching noise and ripples (sawtooth) are produced as a result of rectification, but that is the reason for using filter capacitors and chokes, to minimise these components of the rectified dc voltage....as to which is more musical will depend ultimately on your "subjective" ears, but figures will clearly point out which is superior, need i say more?
i've experimented on hybrid PSU for my 300B... half solid state, half tube and i noticed that although i'm using 5U4G, voltage (B+) ramp up is slower (meaning tubes won't be stressed as much while they heat up). not bad at all.
there are tube rectifiers that offers slow B+ rise, such as 5AR4 which I also have. it has different rating than 5U4G and must be designed accordingly
by nature, tube rectifiers are soft starters because it takes time for its filament to heat up and start giving out electrons, a solid state rectifier on the other hand can conduct current instantaneously, a 5U4 differs from a 5AR4 only is its current handling capability....
(meaning tubes won't be stressed as much while they heat up)
it is best to have the plate voltages come on when the filaments have stabilised....
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dynaco st70 fans, these pages will make you smile::
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/st70.htm (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/st70.htm)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/st35.htm (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/st35.htm)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mk2-sc.gif (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mk2-sc.gif)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mk3-sc.gif (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mk3-sc.gif)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-sca35-sc.gif (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-sca35-sc.gif)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mullard-sc.gif (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mullard-sc.gif)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mullard-sc.gif (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-mullard-sc.gif)
http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-williamson-sc.gif (http://home.snafu.de/appelt/dynaco/dyna-williamson-sc.gif)
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....as to which is more musical will depend ultimately on your "subjective" ears, but figures will clearly point out which is superior, need i say more?
exactly the point. if you ask hypertriode which ST-70 you should get, he would always recommend the tube rectified version rather than Mk II (solid state) because the former is more "musical."
by nature, tube rectifiers are soft starters because it takes time for its filament to heat up and start giving out electrons, a solid state rectifier on the other hand can conduct current instantaneously
compared to solid state yes.
a 5U4 differs from a 5AR4 only is its current handling capability....it is best to have the plate voltages come on when the filaments have stabilised....
not exactly complete. the 5AR4 is indirectly heated (slow B+ rise) whereas the 5U4G is directly heated. the voltage drop of 5AR4 is only 17V compared to 44V for the 5U4G.
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Joan2, Arnold here's the link. I appreciate your responses although I have to admit that for a newbie I absolutely have no idea what you're talking about ;D I need to read up more on the subject. Bear with me here: for example, why is less forward voltage loss a minus for SS? Isn't that a measure of efficiency on the part of SS? I surfed the net and diode manufacturers are touting even lower forward voltage loss which makes me think, being a newbie that I am, that low forward voltage loss is good.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/welborne/messages/2615.html (http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/welborne/messages/2615.html)
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garp, ron welborne recommends SS for his DRD (direct reactance drive) new generation (or so he says) tube amps (45, 2A3 and 300B).
as i previously mentioned, it depends. welborne's previous amps sound best with tube rectification.
solid state is about efficiency. in some applications a 4mV decrease in forward voltage drop reduces the forward power loss by say 1%.
please allow me to quote:
"FORWARD VOLTAGE
Vf varies with: resistivity, thickness of silicon, level of dopant concentration, type of dopant, temperature, and current density.
Forward drop in a high-voltage rectifier is usually not as important an issue as it is in low- voltage applications. Consider, for example, a 1000-watt, 5-volt power supply. If its rectifiers exhibit a 0.7-volt forward drop, the power loss with 200 amps flowing would be 140 watts, or 14 percent of the power being handled. In contrast, the rectifier's forward drop in a typical 1000-watt, 1000-volt supply ranges between 1 and 1.5 volts.
At full output, the current is 1 amp, which with a 1.5-volt forward drop, translates to a 1.5 watt power loss. This represents less than two-tenths of one percent of the power being passed through the rectifier."
tubes are inherently inefficient. they generate so much heat (waste) a for a little audio power.
now, let your ears decide.
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I think you are referring to plitron torroids wound specifically for tube output, in their site they have push pull designs using torroids. I inquired a local tube amp maker and the price he quoted me for this push pull design (40w x 2) is 30,000. as for the SET's using torroids the article is from meta-gizmo.net(not sure).
Yup, i think its the plitron toroids i'm referring to. But in general toroids are better transformer than the stack type, though very few are used in tube circuits.
Here's one i've come across, using output torroids.
(http://www.aha.nl/audio/pp2a3/PICT0053_low.jpg)
And a quote from the page http://www.aha.nl/audio/pp2a3/index2.html (http://www.aha.nl/audio/pp2a3/index2.html)
Some people believe that toroid transformers have no place in an audio cicuit, and should be used in power supplies only. Well, think again! The Plitron toroid transformers used in my first tube amp, the Velleman K4000, proved that they can sound really good, with great bass and very clear and natural highs. They also have a very wide bandwidth, wich is especially important in a non- NFB amplifier design. The transformers i used are the "high end" version of the normal toroid output transformers, designed by Ir. vd Veen, the VDV8020PP. This unit has a primary impedance of 8000 ohms, which is a bit high for this application. The advantages of a higher primary impedance are less distortion and a somewhat higher dampening factor, but it also means less output power. For maximum power, the VDV6040PP (6000 ohms) or the VDV3070PP (3000 ohms) could be used. All information about these types of transformers can be found at www.amplimo.nl.
Here's another from
http://www3.sympatico.ca/scarletaudio/pearl.html (http://www3.sympatico.ca/scarletaudio/pearl.html) using toroids both for power and output.
(http://www3.sympatico.ca/scarletaudio/images/prl3.jpg)
So it seems there are tube amps using toroids. But so far, have not found one in Manila.
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Im really lost. I thought tube rectification is better than SS rectification. I need your advice guys, i am really bent on buying integrated tube amp. My budget is only less than 20k so that means that i have only limited choices like ts audio 34.1, vintage amp or phasetron tube amps. I talked to andrew sevilla of phasetron and requested him to make el34 with tube rectification this time because his previous versions were all SS rectification. He said he used ss rectifier inorder to produce more power. he said further that if he uses tube rectification, instead of having 15 watts for SEP mode, only 8 to 9 watts is produced while SET mode produces only 3 instead of 6. Im not really sure if i got the figures right but is it really true that from SS to tube rectification, there is a downgrade of power output?
I dont have budget kasi for new speakers thats why in the mean time i will have to plug it with my M73i. Im not sure however if what among my choices can fairly drive said speaker. I was thinking also of getting x10d nalang so save money and save myself from the hassle of plugging and unplugging wires using one set of speaker for two amps but i have reservation of getting it because eventually i would have to buy tube amp din.
Please help! ;D
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I think I was able to retrieve the old site introduing the advantages of toroids in tube amps (greater bandwidth) Here
http://www.vex.net/TorontoAES/99-00/sept-review.html (http://www.vex.net/TorontoAES/99-00/sept-review.html)
A more thoroughdiscussion is on downloadable pdf format
http://www.next-power.net/next-tube/articles/Veen/VeenEN.pdf (http://www.next-power.net/next-tube/articles/Veen/VeenEN.pdf)
Here's another on line discussion:
http://www.normankoren.com/Audio/TENA.html (http://www.normankoren.com/Audio/TENA.html)
(http://www.normankoren.com/Audio/Tena_top_640.jpg)
So for those DIY tube tweakers, maybe changing those power and output transformer to equivalent toroids might further improve the sound of your tube gears.
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juls, depende sa design!
kung gugustuhin, pwede. i can make a 8W 300B with solid state, tube or hybrid rectification. of course the PSU will be different for each, hence the cost.
re-evaluate your wants. amp ba o X10D?
av_phile, toroid OPT? why not? i'll get a pair from Plitron for my other project...
PAT 3050-SE is $227 each... teka mas mura pa ang Tamura F-475 dito ah?
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mahal din pala ng torroids na to :-\
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mahal din pala ng torroids na to :-\
My suspicion actually. But aren't audiophiles known to spend $$$ for even slight audio improvements? And toroids' wider bandwidth improvement is not slight.
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My suspicion actually. But aren't audiophiles known to spend $$$ for even slight audio improvements?
I can be reasonable but not exhuberant (read: i will not buy a 50K Tamura OPT)
And toroids' wider bandwidth improvement is not slight.
Not exactly correct. Amorphous Tamura can go to 100kHz Plitron only 80Khz... the cheap F-475 can go up to 50Khz... FWIW - can your speakers? your ears?
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av_phile, toroid OPT? why not? i'll get a pair from Plitron for my other project...
PAT 3050-SE is $227 each... teka mas mura pa ang Tamura F-475 dito ah?
Malaki ba ang price difference?
It's up to you if the price difference justifies a Plitron's 100Khz bandwidth over the Tamura's 30Khz bandwidth (unless you go to the higher F series, like the F-2003?) After all the ears can only hear 20Khz bandwidth, right? But i read elsewhere the high order harmonics of violins and picolos extend well beyond 50 Khz. And great speakers have been known to have tweeters capable to reach this high. Not audible, right. But to some audiophiles, because the real instruments have then, home systems should have them nonetheless.
Anyway, you could just buy one, reverse engineer it and copy the construction, right? Could be a lot cheaper.
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a 5U4 differs from a 5AR4 only is its current handling capability....it is best to have the plate voltages come on when the filaments have stabilised....
not exactly complete. the 5AR4 is indirectly heated (slow B+ rise) whereas the 5U4G is directly heated. the voltage drop of 5AR4 is only 17V compared to 44V for the 5U4G.
yes, you are correct, an indirectly heated tube has a cathode element covering the filaments, whereas a directly heated one has none, this also applies to all tubes, be they diodes, triodes, tetrodes, pentodes or heptodes...
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Joan2, Arnold here's the link. I appreciate your responses although I have to admit that for a newbie I absolutely have no idea what you're talking about I need to read up more on the subject. Bear with me here: for example, why is less forward voltage loss a minus for SS? Isn't that a measure of efficiency on the part of SS? I surfed the net and diode manufacturers are touting even lower forward voltage loss which makes me think, being a newbie that I am, that low forward voltage loss is good.
if you don't understand then no problem, just let your ears decide, tube or solidstate rectifier, it doesn't matter , the tube amp will be inneficient anyway,
just to give you an idea, a dynaco st70 will be dissipating heat as follows:
1. 4 x el34 tubes with a quiscient plate dissipation of 20 watts say, and filament power 6.3x 0.9 amps for a dissipation of about 100watts.
2. 2 x 7189 tubes with quiscient plate dissipation of 10 watts plus filament loss at 5.6 watts say,
so therefore your amp is consuming electricity at the rate of 0.115 kw per hour just sitting there doing nothing!!!
regarding the link you posted, that is the opinion of the writer, no figures with which to judge was given, if you notice, he used snubbers on schottky rectifiers, so now the circuit became more complex with additional components....schottky or regular ss rectifiers can benefit from bypass capacitors to take care of the noise...
Im really lost. I thought tube rectification is better than SS rectification. I need your advice guys, i am really bent on buying integrated tube amp. My budget is only less than 20k so that means that i have only limited choices like ts audio 34.1, vintage amp or phasetron tube amps. I talked to andrew sevilla of phasetron and requested him to make el34 with tube rectification this time because his previous versions were all SS rectification. He said he used ss rectifier inorder to produce more power. he said further that if he uses tube rectification, instead of having 15 watts for SEP mode, only 8 to 9 watts is produced while SET mode produces only 3 instead of 6. Im not really sure if i got the figures right but is it really true that from SS to tube rectification, there is a downgrade of power output?
the power available from the power transformer is fixed, and so by using solid state rectifier, power that would otherwise be lost to the rectifier tube can be used by the the output tube instead...this is as simple as it can get...
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the power available from the power transformer is fixed, and so by using solid state rectifier, power that would otherwise be lost to the rectifier tube can be used by the the output tube instead...this is as simple as it can get...
tama. if he uses a 5U4G, the voltage drop is already 44V, which means for the same B+ requirement, he needs a higher secondary from the power transformer. if solid state is used, the voltage drop is nothing to worry about.
Malaki ba ang price difference?
It's up to you if the price difference justifies a Plitron's 100Khz bandwidth over the Tamura's 30Khz bandwidth (unless you go to the higher F series, like the F-2003?)
Baliktad... the Plitron up to 80kHz and Amorphous Tamura up to 100kHz... the cheap Tamura up to 50kHz. When the right time comes, i'll get one of those. Yung pang PP nila very reasonable.
Anyway, you could just buy one, reverse engineer it and copy the construction, right? Could be a lot cheaper.
Not my cup of tea... maybe joan2 can make a toroid OPT as he designs and build himself.
What do you think joan2?
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guys,
what do you mean by PP and OPT? ???
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what do you mean by PP and OPT? ???
PP = push pull, OPT is output transformer
sorry for the acronyms :-[
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the power available from the power transformer is fixed, and so by using solid state rectifier, power that would otherwise be lost to the rectifier tube can be used by the the output tube instead...this is as simple as it can get...
thanks for clarifying. ;D
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PP = push pull, OPT is output transformer
sorry for the acronyms :-[
tnx arnoldc :)
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hope this isn't OT; what would you suggest to be the ideal speaker sensitivity? ideal being something that a decent PP or SS amp could drive without too much difficulty and at the same time, with the listener being able to enjoy listening at above average levels of loudness without experiencing listening fatigue or any of those negative thingies associated with loud(read-distorted) music.
i purposedly omitted SETs becasue of their rather finicky requirements when it comes to speaker matching/driving.
thanks...
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ramble_on, i have three tube amps. a 2A3 (3W), a 300B (7W) and a PP EL34 (40W)
all these amps drive a 89dB Infinity Kappa 200, with EASE.
it's about system matching. you just have to try.
now, i'm building 45 SET amp (1.5W) and in this case i am looking for higher sensitivity. i have tried a Klipsch, but didn't work out for me (it may for you). i have tried a Coincident Triumph Signature, now this is GOOD! still looking.
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Not my cup of tea... maybe joan2 can make a toroid OPT as he designs and build himself.
What do you think joan2?
torroids are prone to core saturation since it has no air gap, i think the only way to use them as set opt is to cut the donut in halves and putting a spacer material to create the mandatory air gap and prevent core saturation, this canbe done, i suspect they are doing it, then wnding the coils can proceed... i built a toroid
power transformer once, way back in1988 when torroid core material can be obtained from junk surplus shop.. i got it in front of deeco then...it is hard to wind toroids but very challenging....if you can find the materials for it, then we can put our resources to make one, i can contribute to the deisgn aspect....
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torroids are prone to core saturation since it has no air gap, i think the only way to use them as set opt is to cut the donut in halves and putting a spacer material to create the mandatory air gap and prevent core saturation, this canbe done, i suspect they are doing it, then wnding the coils can proceed... i built a toroid
power transformer once, way back in1988 when torroid core material can be obtained from junk surplus shop.. i got it in front of deeco then...it is hard to wind toroids but very challenging....if you can find the materials for it, then we can put our resources to make one, i can contribute to the deisgn aspect....
You may want to read the URLs in my previous posts were i lifted the pics i posted. And there are probabaly more about toroids used as OPT in tube amps. You may want to google search on the subject. As far as i know, toroids provide the best and most efficient/effective transformer function, whether as power or audio output transformer.
I raised the subject of toroids to give tube lovers an option to further improve the sound of their gears with the proper DIY upgrade skills. It's up to you to do any further research on the matter to confrim or refute my position. Then if you think it's worth it, it's up to you to decide if you want to go this route. You're dissenting opinion, ofcourse is most welcome.
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Here's another site on the topic of upgrading a particular amp with, among other things, toroids
From
http://www.altavistaaudio.com/NPS100Dual.jpg
The power transformer in the NPS100 can be upgraded to an extremely nice toroid. Counterpoint built their own transformers, which made sense from a business perspective, but as a designer I always wished we could use Plitron toroidal transformers. I don't know how they do it, but Plitron toroids sound great. No one else comes close. All other transformers make theNPS100 sound sluggish and thick; a Plitron brings the sound to life: delicate and vibrant with a dead-quiet background. These transformers are custom-built to my specifications. Allow 10 weeks for these transformers to be built.
(http://www.altavistaaudio.com/NPS100Dual.jpg)
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I raised the subject of toroids to give tube lovers an option to further improve the sound of their gears with the proper DIY upgrade skills. It's up to you to do any further research on the matter to confrim or refute my position. Then if you think it's worth it, it's up to you to decide if you want to go this route. You're dissenting opinion, ofcourse is most welcome.
this is human nature at work, we always covet the things that we don't have....be that as it may, torroids are really great, many things going for it, except that it easily saturates compared to the EI core due the the nature of its construction....i have a story to tell, way back in 1970, I wanted to construct a solid state amp., naturally, i needed a power transformer to use for power supply, i needed a power tranformer with 220volt pri, to 70volts center-tapped secondary. so i brought with me a 400ma tube power transformer to "Poodmon" in legarda to be rewinded as per my needs. I was shocked to learn from the shopkeepers that it was impossible for them to do it, in other words, they know nothing about solid state amps back then as tubes were still very much in season....so what happened? i had to do DIY and i made it...i made my first solid state amp in 1971...i had done tubes using borrowed materials from a friend much earlier when i was in high school...my favorite tube was 6em5 a vertical output tube from b&w tv's which i borrowed from our own tv set....i still remember my father's face when he found out what i had done....so what am i trying to say? given the right materials, we can do it!!!!
You may want to read the URLs in my previous posts were i lifted the pics i posted. And there are probabaly more about toroids used as OPT in tube amps. You may want to google search on the subject. As far as i know, toroids provide the best and most efficient/effective transformer function, whether as power or audio output transformer.
i went to the link alright and found out that amplino gave out most of the specs, most importantly the turns ratio, with this it will be easier to calculate the actual turns...now the next thing is to get the core materials, i mentioned earlirier the they must have cut the donuts in half, actually just one gap is enough to avoid core saturation in torroids.....
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anybody know the power rating of the Fisher x100 integrated amp? how about the performance?
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anybody know the power rating of the Fisher x100 integrated amp? how about the performance?
the entry level x100 uses 4 6bq5/el84 output tubes in push-pull mode. typical el84 pp amps give 15-25wpc, so conservatively 15wpc
i like the fisher amps and i still have about 6 of them (different models)...they are well designed and well built and sound very good -- not too sweet but clean sounding, dynamic. the x100 i had uses diode rectifiers.
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thanks, i think i will check one.
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Hi Vintage dog, sent u a pm.
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huh Fisher (can't remember model) -- it was guilty of making me fall in love with tubes... as in first love. ;D
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hi, question:
where can i buy valves here in the philippines? bought a new amp, im looking for two ecc83 valves specifically. and how much would i spend for it?
thanks a lot
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go to wiredstate.com. you may find the items you're looking for.
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hi, question:
where can i buy valves here in the philippines? bought a new amp, im looking for two ecc83 valves specifically. and how much would i spend for it?
thanks a lot
ecc83's are better known as 12ax7, one of the most common driver/preamp tubes. there are several types...the cheapest being those made in china, russia or eastern europe and cost about $10/pair. good ones (new old stocks) can cost over $100 a pair.
please post your requirements at the audio marketplace of wiredstate.com.
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There seem to be a lot of DIY design in the internet, if tubes are locally available in raon what about those output transformers? mayroon po bang mga local fabricators that specializes in doing out transformers for tube amps? (i hate being a sucker ;) but please im new here, spare me heheheh ;) ) .
I have a lot of ss projects way back from high school ( circa SMG, TEL, Alexan, SWED hehehe ) after college medyo nawala na yung libangan because may EVA ng libangan :). Hindi naman sa nagsawa na ako sa EVA hahahaha gusto ko lng balikan ang dating levangan....
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youll find the answer here http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2043&start=0
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bump
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I've been doing some reading...
Input tubes affect the overall sound more than output tubes. NOS input tubes sound better than newer production ones while newer output tubes are at par w/ the NOS ones. RCA is a good input tube brand (bang for the buck).
EL34 - midrange magic
6550 - slam/punch/bass (higher output)
KT88 - combination of EL34's/6550's characteristics
Did I get it right? ??? :)
Also, what's the difference between 12AU7,12AT7 and 12AX7? When are they used?
TIA ;D
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Sirs, I just want to ask what kind of tube amp to buy.
1. A Classic tube receiver OR
2. A Tube Integrated amp like AMX or other Amps available.
Thanks to all of you for answering my inquiry!
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go for separate tube amp and preamp for more flexibility. :)
Sirs, I just want to ask what kind of tube amp to buy.
1. A Classic tube receiver OR
2. A Tube Integrated amp like AMX or other Amps available.
Thanks to all of you for answering my inquiry!
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Thanks sir s2kov!
how much will i spend with the separate amp and a pre amp? sirs please give me at least the cheapest ones. and where to buy it. thanks to all of you!
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Thanks sir s2kov!
how much will i spend with the separate amp and a pre amp? sirs please give me at least the cheapest ones. and where to buy it. thanks to all of you!
AMX or Tono (wiredstate.com) Amp.
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ano po ba ang ginagawa ng isang tube buffer? ???
salamas
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Sir, Any of the two. AMX or tono WS project. At least the cheapest
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Can anyone share their experience with tube buffers? Do they really sound good?
TIA :)
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hi matt! IMHO and in my limited experience, a tube buffer can either improve or kill your system...it's dependent on system synergy...better try it out first in your system and base it on your ears, if there's an audible improvement, then go for it, bro! :D
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Can anyone share their experience with tube buffers? Do they really sound good?
TIA :)
My AMX preamp have 2 inputs tube buffer and linestage for me my buffer help improve and tame some unwanted harshness or sharpness, provide wider soundstage and depth with good separation and sweet vocals good for solo female/male, big band, instruments, even rock music but also notice since its tame or roll off some frequency it also sounded a little vague compare to its linestage but not in a sense na ngo ngo. ;D ;D ;D kaya usually i used it with cdp player that are lean and dry sounding or sa DVD player when playing concert DVD. :) :) :)
Kaya just like Jen mention audition mo with your setup total iba iba naman design and circuit of tube buffer and maybe you'll get the right combo for you.
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Ok, thanks for the answer guys :), but I was actually asking about tube buffers that are used on SS amps. Will they make the sounds coming from SS tube-like?
Where do you buy these things and how much are they?
TIA :)
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Planning to buy Prologue One for my B&W 603. Any advise from owners? Thanks
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Ok, thanks for the answer guys :), but I was actually asking about tube buffers that are used on SS amps. Will they make the sounds coming from SS tube-like?
Where do you buy these things and how much are they?
TIA :)
mat,
tube buffer, like the musical fidelity x10d , is connected usually after the source but before the preamp. Some use tube preamp for their SS amps purposely to influence the sound of the latter. A lot of folks prefer the hybrid type (tube pre + SS amp) sound. they claim that the combo produces unfatiguing highs, sweet mids and solid lows.
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mat,
tube buffer, like the musical fidelity x10d , is connected usually after the source but before the preamp. Some use tube preamp for their SS amps purposely to influence the sound of the latter. A lot of folks prefer the hybrid type (tube pre + SS amp) sound. they claim that the combo produces unfatiguing highs, sweet mids and solid lows.
sensya na mga bosing.. ano po ba difference ng tube buffer, like the MF x10d from a tube preamp, like the tono preamp?
are there any difference sa sound pag kinabit ko to sa HT receiver?
thanks alot.
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The tono preamp or any preamp provides sufficient gain to your source signal so that it can be comfortably driven by an amp (or power tubes in a tube amp).
The tube buffer like the x-10d does not ampfliy (its unity gain). The buffer improves the impedance match between the source and your preamp/amp: high input impedance and low output impedance. This way there is no signal loss even for long cables. But in many cases people buy the buffer to get a taste of tube coloration.
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The tono preamp or any preamp provides sufficient gain to your source signal so that it can be comfortably driven by an amp (or power tubes in a tube amp).
The tube buffer like the x-10d does not ampfliy (its unity gain). The buffer improves the impedance match between the source and your preamp/amp: high input impedance and low output impedance. This way there is no signal loss even for long cables. But in many cases people buy the buffer to get a taste of tube coloration.
Using Tono will make your system warm sounding, but added details (resolution) on the music. Highs & lows are controlled and extended.
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ahhh..so ganun pala yun.
thanks for the input mga sirs!
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Ano ba yung bina-bias, yung tube or yung amp? ???
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bumblebee, the term "bias" refer to the maintenance ritual performed on many tube amps. ;D
you are basically making sure that the idling current in the Power Tubes in PushPull output stages is where its supposed to be. Continued use and the inherent characteristics of tubes causes drifts in bias voltage.
Some tube amps have a mechanism to automatically set the bias so you don't have to do anything. If your's don't have it, then it is wise to have a VOM handy to measure and adjust.
Cheers!
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bumblebee, the term "bias" refer to the maintenance ritual performed on many tube amps. ;D
you are basically making sure that the idling current in the Power Tubes in PushPull output stages is where its supposed to be. Continued use and the inherent characteristics of tubes causes drifts in bias voltage.
Some tube amps have a mechanism to automatically set the bias so you don't have to do anything. If your's don't have it, then it is wise to have a VOM handy to measure and adjust.
Cheers!
Many thanks MiniCooper :) I've read somewhere that you do biasing when you change tubes. So kung fixed yung bias points, it is necessary to have "matched" tubes? Tama ba? Daming tanong no? ;D
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Sirs,
How does one know the "operation voltage" of a tube amp? Nasa specs po ba ito? Sorry, nde ko po alam yung proper terminology e :-[
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Sirs,
How does one know the "operation voltage" of a tube amp? Nasa specs po ba ito? Sorry, nde ko po alam yung proper terminology e :-[
It's the specs of every tube (nameplate). Try to "Google it" to know them well.
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Sir,
I was referring to the operational voltage of the amp, not the tube. I came across an article kc about biasing. It said the "safe" bias point is dependent on the operational voltage of the amp.
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Thanks, Sir 2ny :)
Sorry as I have really messed terms up :-[
I read about an article saying that an EL34 (25W) can be "safely" biased at 44mA (no more than that) at 400V Class AB operation (.7*25W/400V). I'd like to know if "400V" can be found in the specs.
Sorry po ulit ;D
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I think the ST70's EL34s are biased at around 50mA per tube at a plate voltage of around 410V. You can find these at the ST70's manual.
Most PP cathode bias output sections I've seen have their EL34s at around 390V with a bias current of 70mA per tube, while fixed bias have the opposite, higher plate voltage and lower bias currents. This probably shows the inherent efficiency of fixed bias topologies in Class AB1.
Anyway, I doubt you'll find the plate/supply voltage stamped at the back of the amp, the manual of the amp may have this though. Opening the amp may answer your question, though care must be practiced, the caps may still be charged and maybe enough to injure you. Safety first dude.
Cheers,
JojoD
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EL34 on Dynaco ST70 is set to 50mA for each tube.
Thanks, Sir 2ny :)
Sorry as I have really messed terms up :-[
I read about an article saying that an EL34 (25W) can be "safely" biased at 44mA (no more than that) at 400V Class AB operation (.7*25W/400V). I'd like to know if "400V" can be found in the specs.
Sorry po ulit ;D
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Thanks Sirs JojoD and s2kov :) San ba merong Electronics 101? :'(
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WAD's KiT34 Integrated Valve Amplifier ;D
Most PP cathode bias output sections I've seen have their EL34s at around 390V with a bias current of 70mA per tube, while fixed bias have the opposite, higher plate voltage and lower bias currents. This probably shows the inherent efficiency of fixed bias topologies in Class AB1.
Cheers,
JojoD
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I have several articles relating to tube amplifier design. Let me know, if your interested. :)
Cheers!
Thanks Sirs JojoD and s2kov :) San ba merong Electronics 101? :'(
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I have several articles relating to tube amplifier design. Let me know, if your interested. :)
Cheers!
It'll be very much appreciated :)
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master tony, here it is:
Radiotron: RDH4 http://geek.scorpiorising.ca/
Everything About Screen Grid: http://www.webace.com.au/~electron/tubes/screens.htm
I have several articles from Norman Crowhurst in pdf format.
hanapin ko yung iba! ;D
andy,
how about some links? ;D
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http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14178/
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Sir s2kov appreciate the links. Thanks for the inputs you're a big help for DIY'r especially for newbies like me.
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Do amps from Wiredstate or AMX have provisions for biasing?
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Thanks again Sir 2ny :) I've been reading and trying (really hard :-[) to understand the basics. Tube amps seem really interesting and I'm considering trying out one (ipon, ipon, ipon). But the biasing thing is making me have second thoughts. SS kc, plug and play e.
Kung afford ko lang sana yung PrimaLuna :'(
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[quote ]
Thanks again Sir 2ny :) I've been reading and trying (really hard :-[) to understand the basics. Tube amps seem really interesting and I'm considering trying out one (ipon, ipon, ipon). But the biasing thing is making me have second thoughts. SS kc, plug and play e.
I also encountered the same problem before, so I asked around. All WS amps so far are auto biasing--plug and play.
My AMX el84 amp is also auto biasing--plug and play. If you are ready with your budget, you can contact Francis (Vintage Dog) sa wiredstate.com.
For AMX, you can talk directly to Andrew at Phasetron or visit:
http://www.amxtubeaudio.com/
His contact number - nasa web site.
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Auto-biasing like the PrimaLuna? No need for matched tubes?
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What makes the tube amp circuit "Auto biasing"? is this accurate? Does it really no need to have match 2's or 4's for an auto -bias tube amp?
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use independent bias pots for each tube and you don't need matched quad tubes! :)
Auto-biasing like the PrimaLuna? No need for matched tubes?
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use independent bias pots for each tube and you don't need matched quad tubes! :)
I read Cayin and Duntonic amps have this. Kaso, nasa loob.
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it is the hassle of having the bias pots inside the chassis, you need to open it everytime you adjust the bias!
I read Cayin and Duntonic amps have this. Kaso, nasa loob.
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Here's something I really like :)
TYPES OF (FIXED) BIAS CIRCUITS
Many amps which use "fixed" (negative grid) bias have provisions for adjusting the negative grid voltage upward or downward. Making the grids LESS negative will cause MORE current to flow through the tubes. Some amplifiers don't have a bias-adjusting control (pot) but instead use a fixed resistor to set the voltage. If you encounter one with a fixed resistor, the best thing to do is convert it to an adjustable type. Most of the time, the fixed resistor will be in parallel with the bias capacitor; the lower this resistor's value is, the lower the bias voltage will be. If you can locate and identify this resistor, you can replace it with a simple network consisting of a (lower value) resistor in series with a potentiometer. What you'll be shooting for is a range of adjustment that goes from LESS voltage to MORE voltage than is set by the (existing) fixed resistor. Take the value of the fixed resistor and divide by two; pick the closest standard value to your result, and put it in series with a pot which is as close to the original resistor's value as you can find. Example: the existing resistor is 33K; use a 15K resistor in series with a 25K pot to replace it. The original resistor was 33K; you now have the ability to adjust the value from 15K to 40K. This should provide you with sufficient adjustment range to set any plate current you wish. If not, use a different value pot or resistor.
Some amps have a "balance" type bias adjustment, which allows you to vary the negative grid voltage between the two halves of the output stage; this makes a "matched" set of tubes less crucial to good performance, although it can't compensate for tubes that are wildly different. If you encounter this circuit, the easiest way to adjust it is to simply "tune" the control for minimum 120Hz hum on the output. This type can be modded to the *best* type, which is not only variable from side-to-side, but adjustable up-and-down, too. Usually, this circuit will have the "balance" pot's wiper connected to a resistor which is grounded at the other end. You can replace this resistor exactly as outlined above (half the value, add a pot, etc.) and have the best of both worlds.
-LORD VALVE
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Hi, just want to note that Auto biasing in Prima Luna is not the same thing as auto-biasing in WS amps or as is common in many SET amps. Prima Luna is still "fixed biased" in the sense that a negative voltage is applied at the grid (around -40v). The auto bias is there to automatically and dynamically set the bias current as predetermined by Prima Luna. The auto bias in WS amps and common in many class A amps are common cathode bias amps using a bypassed resistor from cathode to ground to make the grid "more negative" with respect to the cathode. Just my 1 cent...
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Hi, just want to note that Auto biasing in Prima Luna is not the same thing as auto-biasing in WS amps or as is common in many SET amps. Prima Luna is still "fixed biased" in the sense that a negative voltage is applied at the grid (around -40v). The auto bias is there to automatically and dynamically set the bias current as predetermined by Prima Luna. The auto bias in WS amps and common in many class A amps are common cathode bias amps using a bypassed resistor from cathode to ground to make the grid "more negative" with respect to the cathode. Just my 1 cent...
Sana pati bias setpoint, variable na rin :D
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more on biasing...
how to measure bias (from use of DMM to trimpot adjustment) and how determine correct bias setting for the tubes (in a given circuit)?
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more on biasing...
how to measure bias (from use of DMM to trimpot adjustment) and how determine correct bias setting for the tubes (in a given circuit)?
Try this link (http://www.aikenamps.com/Biasing.html).
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2ny is correct. The PrimaLuna is a fixed-bias type with circuits to maintain "auto-bias" whereas more traditional ones use a bias potentiometer to adjust the bias voltage manually.
That is different from cathode bias (resistor w/ capacitor bypass) that other amps uses.
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Hello Guru's!
I'm a newbie and have a question for you (maybe a stupid one :P) Using tube amps, Is it ok too hear a slight hum coming out from your speakers? I could only hear it if I stick my ear to it and it's coming only from my right speaker.
I'm afraid I have experienced this from 2 of my tube amps (AMX & Dared) at home and I'm using a power line filter on it.... Should I return the amp and have it fixed? or is there something wrong with my system.. or with me?? Thanks!
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I'm a newbie and have a question for you (maybe a stupid one :P) Using tube amps, Is it ok too hear a slight hum coming out from your speakers? I could only hear it if I stick my ear to it and it's coming only from my right speaker.
Hi!
From what i read, that is normal.
My AMX EL84 also slightly hums.
Louie
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if you have to stick your ear up close to hear the hum, then i guess it's okey. even ss amps that have poor grounding layout are prone to this.
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Thanks! I thought I had problems... ;D
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If NOS sounds so good, bakit hindi na lang gayahin yung design ng mga current manufacturers tapos ibenta sa mas mababang halaga tulad ng mga new production tubes? ???
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If NOS sounds so good, bakit hindi na lang gayahin yung design ng mga current manufacturers tapos ibenta sa mas mababang halaga tulad ng mga new production tubes? ???
I'm wondering, inspite of technology with new & better materials today, why NOS tubes expensive and most of them sounds better than new production? Parang wine kailangan ba ng "aging"? to make it sound better? hehehe or maybe because of new production now a days are made in China?
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Mga sir I'm contemplating on getting a tube buffer (MF X10v3) for sometime now but concern on the following... I'm just a casual listener.
1) Frequent switching on/off (eg. 2x/day), Does it affect the life span of the tube ?
2) Room Temp. - manufacturer recommends keeping the unit always on, would it be ok even when airconditioning unit is off ? sayang kasi electrc. bill
3) Tube replacement - manufacturer claims tubes used are limited (milspec milusage mu-vista (6112) tube), Does any one knows of any replacement tubes for these ?
Sorry mga bosing I'm newbie on tubes...
TIA
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thx sir 2ty, the site has more info than MF site itself with regards to the tubes.
your reply as well as the new info i got, moves me a step closer on getting it the only hitch I see is that I cannot test it with my gear since I have to order pa but I guest I'll be ok with it since I already got the xpsu and xdacv3 to compliment it and judging from most reviews available on the net I feel it would be ok for me...
thanks again sir...
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KEN,
when I built my tube buffer last May, it has been on 24/7 for the past 4-5 months, power failures are the only interruptions though. the 6922 tubes are said to have many hours of service especially with such designs wherein the tubes are operated at lower voltages. i think it will take years before you need to replace it's tubes.
hope this helps...
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Hello Ken, Where are you going buy the X-10 tube buffer??? I'm looking all over to get one this.. ;D
I also saw a review that if you get the MF X-DAC together with this it'll give you an even greater improvement.. I guess a regular cheap DVD player can sound on par/ better than a good (branded) CDP.
Let me know the outcome! ;D
Thanks!
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Thanks sir JojoD818 for the rply, just want to know if you keep your aircondtng unit on or room temp will do ? I'm worried sayang kasi electric bill specially pag nasa trabaho.
KEN,
when I built my tube buffer last May, it has been on 24/7 for the past 4-5 months, power failures are the only interruptions though. the 6922 tubes are said to have many hours of service especially with such designs wherein the tubes are operated at lower voltages. i think it will take years before you need to replace it's tubes.
hope this helps...
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Hi MomonX,
Dito kasi ako based sa Jeddah(Saudi) but the local dealer is based pa sa Riyadh (1.1K Kilo), kaya very hard for me to audition it with my system. Pinoy din kasi yung dealer kaya na informed ako last 2 weeks pa na kadadating lang ng mga stocks nila I already got the XPSU and XDAC v3 to compliment it. The XPSU/XDACv3 alone makes a big difference compare noong CDP(RCD02) lang gamit ko.
Hello Ken, Where are you going buy the X-10 tube buffer??? I'm looking all over to get one this.. ;D
I also saw a review that if you get the MF X-DAC together with this it'll give you an even greater improvement.. I guess a regular cheap DVD player can sound on par/ better than a good (branded) CDP.
Let me know the outcome! ;D
Thanks!
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Hi.
There is a thread about tube vs ss rectified tube pre-amp but Im not sure if my question qualifies there since I interpreted it as tubes + rectifier on a single plate.. So, here goes:
1. Would a WS Tono Pre Amp or an AMX Pre Amp be considered an upgrade for my Nad 320? I want this 'sweet' coloration in sound (i have been reading about) but im not willing to spend on a tube integrated just yet.
2. Is there merit in using any of these 2 (amx/tono) with NAD 320?
3. Also, since some of the tube threads were started a couple of years ago-when semi restored vintage tube gears are priced more competitively than the 2 brands I mentioned, Im not sure if one is still available. Meron pa bang affordable vintage ngayon? Or WS / AMX na ang most affordable ticket to tubes ngayon?
4. Can I use a Pre-amp with my other SS Intergrated without a pre-amp provision? Via Tape 1/2 input kaya puede?
Unfortunately, I do not have time to audition on weekends so please lend me your ears instead. (thanks)
Opinions and subjective views are most welcome.
Thanks.
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Hi.
There is a thread about tube vs ss rectified tube pre-amp but Im not sure if my question qualifies there since I interpreted it as tubes + rectifier on a single plate.. So, here goes:
1. Would a WS Tono Pre Amp or an AMX Pre Amp be considered an upgrade for my Nad 320? I want this 'sweet' coloration in sound (i have been reading about) but im not willing to spend on a tube integrated just yet.
- For me definitely not an upgrade for your NAD 320, but it might improved the sound of your system. In this kind of hobby it is much better to hear it for yourself.
2. Is there merit in using any of these 2 (amx/tono) with NAD 320?
In my experience (tono) there is. Again better to hear it yourself
3. Also, since some of the tube threads were started a couple of years ago-when semi restored vintage tube gears are priced more competitively than the 2 brands I mentioned, Im not sure if one is still available. Meron pa bang affordable vintage ngayon? Or WS / AMX na ang most affordable ticket to tubes ngayon?
Pre-owned, DIY projects and AMX as well as WS (Tono) products are affordable.
4. Can I use a Pre-amp with my other SS Intergrated without a pre-amp provision? Via Tape 1/2 input kaya puede?
In case of Tono pre-amp you can integrate it with your SS and believe same thing with the AMX
Unfortunately, I do not have time to audition on weekends so please lend me your ears instead. (thanks)
Find time/ways to audition anything before buying, you need your ears.
Opinions and subjective views are most welcome.
Hi markm just my opinion
Thanks.
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Thanks sir JojoD818 for the rply, just want to know if you keep your aircondtng unit on or room temp will do ? I'm worried sayang kasi electric bill specially pag nasa trabaho.
Hi KEN,
Nope, no air conditioning here sir (no electric fans too). Besides, I'm sure that even frequent (several times a day) on and off won't damage the unit. I even modified mine to have a slow turn-on for the heaters to even lengthen their already long life. :)
Turning audio or any electrical equipment when no one is around is a healthy habit, aside from other reasons, you are also promoting green earth.
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@KEN,
looking at the casing for that buffer and at 14watts power consumption, i reckon not even a 30*C temp rise! so heat is not an issue imho! but wether you will like the sound from it is!
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thanks sir JojoD818...ur info is a big help, tamang tama yung XPSU may on/off switch.
Hi KEN,
Nope, no air conditioning here sir (no electric fans too). Besides, I'm sure that even frequent (several times a day) on and off won't damage the unit. I even modified mine to have a slow turn-on for the heaters to even lengthen their already long life. :)
I agree 100% sir...
Turning audio or any electrical equipment when no one is around is a healthy habit, aside from other reasons, you are also promoting green earth.
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Thx sir 2ny with ur rply...i'm relieve of my worries...
@KEN,
looking at the casing for that buffer and at 14watts power consumption, i reckon not even a 30*C temp rise! so heat is not an issue imho!
basing on my XPSU/XDACv3 combi experience, I feel(hope) I would like the effect of the x10v3 on my system.
but wether you will like the sound from it is!
Galing talaga dito PinoyDVD... thanks gain mga sir sa mga replies nyo...
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Sirs,
What's the difference between driver and preamp tubes? Which affects sound more?
TIA.
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Sirs,
What's the difference between driver and preamp tubes? Which affects sound more?
TIA.
a driver tube by its name drives the output tubes, provides the nescessary voltage swing at the grids, and can be as high as 200volts peak to peak, a preamp drives the power amp. power amps may requires a few volts rms to drive it to full power output!
both however can use the same type tubes.
as to which affects the sound more, there is no easy answer!
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Thanks for that, Sir 2ny.
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@bumblebee,
i suggest you go to www.diyaudio.com, under amplifiers, tubes, you will learn a lot. use the search function for topics you want to get informantion about.
guys like thorstein, prr, sy, tubelab.com and many others post there and you can bet more insights to the workings of tubes. ;D
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Galing sa Net...
The Driver Tube;
The driver tube is the least understood tube in an amp. If you are putting in matched sets of output tubes (and you really should be) then you are wasting your time and money without a Driver Tube that has been picked for this special job.
Just about every amp with 2 or more output tubes uses a driver tube. Why it is so important is because this tube takes a single signal voltage, and splits it into two. There are actually 2 separate amplifiers in a 12AX7 and in a 12AT7. If each amplifier section in it are working at the same potential - great! But they hardly ever do... so, you need to find one.
As far as I know, no one markets a "driver tube" for musicians, however I do. That's because when I
purchase tubes, I sort them for where in the amp they would perform best. This symmetry in the driver tube allows the 'matched' output tubes to see the same input signal voltage levels, and in turn deliver matching output voltages. When all this and properly biased, the tubes will sound better and last longer. Be sure to read the section on matched sets to fully grasp this vital aspect of your amp.
Preamp Tubes V.S. Output Tubes;
This is where the tone really happens: in the preamp. Read more about that in "ABOUT PREAMP TUBES". Most amps don't depend on output tube distortion to generate the tone. There is an audible difference in the way preamp tubes distort and the way output tubes distort.
Preamp tubes are capable of much higher levels of distortion (safely), and tend to sound like a finer grit of sandpaper than the course distortion of an output tube. For amps that use EL34's (6CA7), EL84's (6BQ5) like Marshall and Vox; these tubes are likely to impart their own tone and or type of
distortion under normal operating conditions. For almost all Fender circuits you will find the 6L6/5881: this is a workhorse clean tube. When working properly, the output tubes do a good job of NOT imparting their own tone, or distortion. In some Marshall's, you'll find 6550's; these tubes are the big brother to the 6L6/5881. They extend the treble a fair amount, and by comparison can be shrill. They also allow you to hear what's going on in the Marshall preamp circuitry with much more detail. Its a good rig for most Metal genre's, as articulation is a key component to a great sound. Its also a great tube for jazz players. The classic Marshall tone is 3) 12AX7's with 4) EL34's for the Rock Arena, for the blues and proto-rock glean its the 40 to 50 Watt version (as above but only 2) EL34's.
Power Tubes;
Just to clarify, Output Tubes AKA "Finals" although they do a lot of work, are really not "Power" tubes, as they are often referred to. I'm too old to try to change the world, but, Power Tubes are rectifier tubes, and (almost never seen in audio) regulator tubes. In both cases "power tubes" refers to tubes that are part of the power supply. Output Tubes are not part of the power supply, so it doesn't make sense to call them "Power Tubes".
Examples of power tubes are 5AR4/GZ34, 5Y3, 5V4, 5U4, A03.
Examples of output tubes are 6L6, EL34, 6V6, EL84, 6550.
About Preamp Tubes;
First off, nobody's tubes sound any better than anyone else's. Its entirely a matter of taste. From one 12AX7 to another, you will hear differences in tone, dynamic range, and distortion characteristics, if you listen to them at clean, low volume settings. If you want to know what they are really doing behind your wall of distortion, first give them a critical low volume listening. If you lack the discipline to do this, then you will never learn what all the different tube qualities are. Its great that you like to play loud - whatever, I do too.
Tone; Some preamp tubes sound thin, some dark. Some lack midrange, some are rich and fizzy.
Dynamic range; Some are accurate, percussive tubes, others are compressed. One may sound too aggressive and the other too squishy. They both sound good, but one will perk your ears up and make you say "Yea, that's what I've been looking for, that's been the missing ingredient!" Compression is not a bad word. In tubes, the effect is so natural and transparent that you don't hear it as compression. It simply has a different feel, which is what you should be focussed on. It can tame the harshness of one amp, but add the punch needed for another amp.
Distortion characteristics; How quickly a tube is driven into clipping, and whether it then gets smoothly rounded off or generates harmonic overtones determines whether the tube simply compresses or goes into distortion. What that distortion sounds like is affected by the tonal characteristics of the tube, and if it is also audibly compressing. What range of notes gets distorted most easily has a great deal to do with your final product in terms of tone. This is because in guitar amps distortion is overtones, and overtones can be in an area where fundamental notes lay as well.
To hear the differences you need only one of each type, and listen to each one in the socket nearest the input jack. Here the preamp tubes' effect will be the most evident. Learning the way you can refine the tone of your amp with tubes is fun, inexpensive, and worthwhile.
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Thanks Odyopayl. Others who may also want to share their opinions are welcome. :)
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Sirs, Would you help me where can i find a diy cables and interconnects and how much it is. The cables wich are sold in other audio store ranges 3k to 5k. Its too expensive for a newbie.
I got an AMX el84 with a pair of ROy Allison bookshelf speaker which i acquire it thru sir rene rivo long time ago and a pioneer dvd 535 as my source. What cables and interconnects would fit my audio system.
Sir Rene buhay pa po ang speaker na binili ko sa inyo. thanks!
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Sirs, Would you help me where can i find a diy cables and interconnects and how much it is. The cables wich are sold in other audio store ranges 3k to 5k. Its too expensive for a newbie.
I got an AMX el84 with a pair of ROy Allison bookshelf speaker which i acquire it thru sir rene rivo long time ago and a pioneer dvd 535 as my source. What cables and interconnects would fit my audio system.
Sir Rene buhay pa po ang speaker na binili ko sa inyo. thanks!
For starters, try using CAT5 for ICs and speaker cables :)
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am currently browsing on parallel feed and CCS. quite long road ahead for me.
any help to make journey quicker and less "punishing" would be appreciated.
ang daming bagong terms and concepts that go beyond my newbie vocabulary :(.
in laymen's terms, why would i care for these approaches? where are they most applicable?
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am currently browsing on parallel feed and CCS. quite long road ahead for me.
any help to make journey quicker and less "punishing" would be appreciated.
ang daming bagong terms and concepts that go beyond my newbie vocabulary :(.
in laymen's terms, why would i care for these approaches? where are they most applicable?
if you look at the plate curves for say a 12au7, and you plot a resistance load of say 47k ohms, you will find that it is a diagonal line, CCS otoh will have the line running flat horizontal. inspection of the two will reveal that greater output voltage is possible with CCS than with just a resistor load.
paraffeed on the other hand uses ac transformer types to couple the load, instead of placing the transformer primary at plate and B+, this way no dc currents are present and inductance is kept high.
if you have a line amp,try replacing the load resistor with a current source and you will find out the difference.
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don't know if these were asked already, just curious what will happen:
- can i power up an amp with a tube missing (who in the right mind would do this ;D)?
- what will happen if i remove a tube while the amp is running (aside from getting burned ;D)?
- can i switch from triode to pentode mode on the fly (while amp is on and running)?
- what does a dim glow of tube (as compared to other tubes) indicates?
sorry mga pang 1-yr old questions yata ;D
thanks
8)
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- can i power up an amp with a tube missing (who in the right mind would do this )?
yes, but not a good idea, and unsafe, B+ will rise with decreased load! not recommended.
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psu caps might kapoof! :P ;D
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don't know if these were asked already, just curious what will happen:
- can i power up an amp with a tube missing (who in the right mind would do this ;D)?
- what will happen if i remove a tube while the amp is running (aside from getting burned ;D)?
- can i switch from triode to pentode mode on the fly (while amp is on and running)?
- what does a dim glow of tube (as compared to other tubes) indicates?
sorry mga pang 1-yr old questions yata ;D
thanks
8)
Jakob,
ganda ng mga questions mo, pero seriuously naging curious din ako sa mga tanong mo.
;D ;D ;D ;D
sana yun 3rd question may sumagot. :P
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- can i switch from triode to pentode mode on the fly (while amp is on and running)?
yes, my el84 set amp has this switch which i use to select triode or pentode mode on the fly! ;D
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thanks for the replies guys!
:)
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2ny,
parang kakatakot naman yun. :o switching the screen to different potentials. di kaya masira yun tube nun? ;D
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jojo, even i was skeptical at first, but i tried it and nothing untowards happened, we are dealing here with what 4 or 6 mA, not a big deal at all, i installed 1k decoupling resistors as precautionary measure.
this is how i did it.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/tecson/tube%20amp/el84set003.gif)
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i do switch from pentode to triode on the fly. (often with eyes closed ;D) so far k naman. i guess mas destructive yg repeated powering on/off. besides, ABtesting is easier if done on the fly.
but i removed the mode switch after a few mos (thinking of using a true triode tube for triode rather than triode strapping). but definitely, may sonic difference.
i also read that for direct-coupled design, it is not recommended to remove the driver tube as it means sure disaster to the output tube. am following this strictly (for testing) but don't understand fully why. ???
i do power up my amp w/o tubes for testing purposes only. i like that extra B+ switch :)
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also read that for direct-coupled design, it is not recommended to remove the driver tube as it means sure disaster to the output tube. am following this strictly (for testing) but don't understand fully why.
this is because when you remove the driver tube, the output tube grid becomes 0volt biased, and we all know in such situation, plate current is at its maximum! but plates will glow red first so you have plenty of time to turn off your amp.
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Does anyone know what the math is for computing NFB? I'm having trouble finding literature sa internet. The NFB is a resistor and shunt capacitor (usually 39-100pf). I just want to know if say you want only 6db feedback what the resistor/cap combo should be. Thanks.
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NFB= open loop gain minus closed loop gain, values are in decibels. the capacitor in parrallel with the feedback resistor determines the frequency where gain starts to drop, also called corner frequency.
so you have to know the open loop gain of your amp, that is without the feedback resistor connected. so depending on how much feedback you want, the closed loop gain will follow.
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this is because when you remove the driver tube, the output tube grid becomes 0volt biased, and we all know in such situation, plate current is at its maximum! but plates will glow red first so you have plenty of time to turn off your amp.
switching between triode/pentode mode on the fly = ok (palakasan lang pala ng loob eh, takot ako ;D)
cherry red plates = pabilisan sa pag off! ;D ;D ;D
try ko yan on the fly tony pag nakagawa ako ulit ng tube amp. btw, been looking for an el84 pp circuit in fixed bias mode in the internet but unsuccessfull. parang masarap paglaruan yun el84 kasi maliit kaysa el34. playtime!
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jojo,
download mo lang yung datasheet nyan. or kung me tube manual ka, me table doon showing values of plate voltage, neg grid bias, af drive reuirement, plate to plate load, etc.
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ex.
30 watter tube amp having two output tubes/channel, if you remove one (from each channel) during play, will that reduce the power output to just 15 watts?
another newbie question, thanks for your patience ;D
:)
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hmmm, never thought of these before. :)
if that's a Push-pull, it will not work.
if Parallel, am not sure if it will work yet if it does, if it will not damage the amp or any part.
masters 2ny/jojod can perhaps confirm.
--- edits ---
sorry your question is about halving the ouput. i don't think so (assuming it will work). too many things in the circuit that determine power.
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i have tried this is the past, there was an abvious lowering of power(volume) and from my experience, the change is not the same for the two tubes, one sounded louder than the other, probably due to unsymetrical drives.
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jojo,
download mo lang yung datasheet nyan. or kung me tube manual ka, me table doon showing values of plate voltage, neg grid bias, af drive reuirement, plate to plate load, etc.
c utol meron tube manual tignan ko. meron pa ba nabibiling rca receiving tube manual? yun sa utol ko naninilaw na mga pages at nakakatakot hawakan baka mag collapse na yun book. ;D ;D
pwede ba i-on yun amp pag walang opt tubes? i mean rectifier and driver tubes lang ang nakakabit. let's say the caps are willing and able to accomodate high voltages. pwede dba? so long as hindi mag cherry red yun driver tubes ko sa taas ng b+!
para ma test ko yun negative bias voltage? :)
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so long as hindi mag cherry red yun driver tubes ko sa taas ng b+!
for voltage amplifier and driver tubes, the increase in voltage say 10 to 20% will not matter that much in terms of tube dissipation. these tubes are rarely biased to 100% of their plate dissipation ratings, 25 to 50% is normal for these tubes. output tubes are another story.
if you want to look at the data for 6bq5, it can be found here:http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheets62.html
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i'll remember that once I'm able to put the pieces together. ;D
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this is because when you remove the driver tube, the output tube grid becomes 0volt biased, and we all know in such situation, plate current is at its maximum! but plates will glow red first so you have plenty of time to turn off your amp.
what are the other causes that make the output tube glow cherry red? will a defective driver tube do this, much like removing one before powering up.
ty
:)
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what are the other causes that make the output tube glow cherry red? will a defective driver tube do this, much like removing one before powering up.
When the output tube grid leak resistor becomes open, then the plate will turn cherry red.
Actually, what i mentioned in my last post is dc coupled amp, for ac or capacitor coupled amps, this is not the case. a deffective driver tube willl manifest itself as weak output. a leaky coupling capacitor will also
make the plate turn cherry red.
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Should a flux band be electrically grounded (secondary side of course)?
Any difference if it is grounded or left floating?
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yan ba yung copper band around the traffo? kung sandwhiched sya ng shell, magagaround na rin yan. better that it is connected to ground. ;D
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yup Tony, tama ka it's the one around the EI - for sure grounded ito ;D. but there is another type of flux band around the core before insertion of the EI, should I bother or just use the customary way of installing a flux band?
since you have a lot of experience and make your own trannies, some advice would be very valuable indeed.
thanks :)
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you have two choices, one is to use a single layer of magnet wire with one end connected to a ground drain, or you can use a copper, or aluminum foils. btw, i saw copper foils at sulimco. the ends of these foils should not touch, otherwise you have a shorted turn.
these are installed between the primary and secondary windings.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/CIMG0042.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/CIMG0043.jpg)
i remember when i wound my first traffo for a leach amp, it used a 1 3/4 in core stacked to 3.5 inch, i used an aluminum duct tape! ;D
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that's what I'm talking about! nice work!
thanks!
btw, what happened to the tranny with alum duct tape? shorted? ;D ;D ;D
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btw, what happened to the tranny with alum duct tape? shorted?
of course not! i made it in 1980 for my first super leach amp using japanese output transistors at a rail of +/-63volts. ;D
but my first transformer build attempt when i was about 14, was in smoke the moment i turned on the power, but i have come a long way eversince! ;D ;D ;D
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this is a sneak preview of my upcoming 60watt 6HF5 PP screen grid drive amp. all transformers diy'ed by me! this amp is for my son's elctric guitar ;D
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/tecson/CIMG0980.jpg)
will go to aranque for the aluminum cahssis.
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of course not! i made it in 1980 for my first super leach amp using japanese output transistors at a rail of +/-63volts. ;D
but my first transformer build attempt when i was about 14, was in smoke the moment i turned on the power, but i have come a long way eversince! ;D ;D ;D
i bet almost all serious diyers have seen the magic smoke once or twice in their lifetime. i remember my very first psu caps trajectory landed on the ceiling! ;D ;D ;D but now I intentionally blow up small caps in lieu of blasting caps for firecrackers during the new year. ;D
your son's amp is looking very good, tell us how it sounds. where do you buy those tranny covers? looks a lot like the ST70 opt trannies yes?
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where do you buy those tranny covers? looks a lot like the ST70 opt trannies yes??
they are all from deeco! the power transformer as well as output traffos are from EI-150, the filter choke is EI-112. since the cores were from scrapples stampings, i just modded the covers to be used in an upright position as opposed to sideways! fyi, the legs for the ei 1.25 can be used for the ei-1.5 in an upright position! try this and you will see what i mean!;D
the output traffo, i asked a local shop to weld the legs to the cover shell since only two holes can be used. the corner holes do not jibe with the cover shells, sinauna kasi yung core na nakuha ko for the output traffo, that is why i had to improvise, the output traffo is a ei-1 1/2 inch core stacked to about 2 1/2 inch. there is no commercial equivalent for this traffo, ot has a primary impedance of 4.2k p2p to 4 8 and 16 ohm taps, i have even wound a separate feedback winding.
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master tony,
can't wait to see the finish product of your son's guitar amp! ;D
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Gets ko na! ;D ;D ;D
You just drilled a hole below for the wires, paano yun isang butas sa side?
OT: Since bass amp yan pwede pala jamming utol ko and your son since electric guitar naman sa utol ko. :o
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paano yun isang butas sa side
i jjust leave it as is, me nabibile na cover sa deeco na walang holes. ;D
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master tony,
can't wait to see the finish product of your son's guitar amp! ;D
i hope i can finish this before year's end. ;D
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Sorry to disturb but we are getting off topic. Thanks.
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Sorry to disturb but we are getting off topic. Thanks.
excuse us sir Levi. :)
back to topic...
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does virtual center-tapping work for dc supplies as well?
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does virtual center-tapping work for dc supplies as well?
yes, use a voltage divider with parallel caps to halve the voltage potential.
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Is it possible to substitute lets say for a 10uf NP Capacitor using 2 pcs. 5uf e-cap connected in reverse polarity? (+- / +-)
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Is it possible to substitute lets say for a 10uf NP Capacitor using 2 pcs. 5uf e-cap connected in reverse polarity? (+- / +-)
a 10uf film cap is not that hard to find, however if you insist you must, you can series connect two 22ufd eletcros to form a 10ufd NP cap. do it in a - + + - way or vice versa. you can even put a 1meg resistor at the juction and bias the resistor to polarise the caps.
saan ba gagamitin? ;D
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am so amused 8) with chip regulators and wonder ::) if there are AC counterparts for it (not the main regulators, course ;) '
di ba useful din yan, like regulating the heaters in AC ???
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am so amused 8) with chip regulators and wonder ::) if there are AC counterparts for it (not the main regulators, course ;) '
di ba useful din yan, like regulating the heaters in AC ???
yes, you can use smps types, you heaters will be ac but at 200khz, not 60hz! ;D
tube heaters operate on a certein level, 6.3 say, but a few millivolts more or less will not hurt.
i have observed that power transofrmers loaded or not has a very minimal effect on the filament voltage, so in a well designed power transformer, this should not be an issue.
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besides the heaters draw a fairly constant amount of current as soon as they reach nominal operating temps, wether they are at AC or DC potentials. though mains fluctuations in this situation can be another story, it has been said that heaters have a certain margin of about +/-10%.
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O eto naman...
what tubes (or their spec) make good candidates for headphone duties? my mind tells me a separate secondary winding for OPT will do the trick but tube specs have to be considered I suppose. OTL headamp or dual duties (amp and headamp).
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a 10uf film cap is not that hard to find, however if you insist you must, you can series connect two 22ufd eletcros to form a 10ufd NP cap. do it in a - + + - way or vice versa. you can even put a 1meg resistor at the juction and bias the resistor to polarise the caps.
saan ba gagamitin? ;D
Thanks for the info 2ny. Actually just saw one of my SS Amp with unity gain buffer circuit for the inputs. I'm planning to upgrade the components especially the capacitor o.1uF capacitor NP (ceramic type). Want to replace it with Auricap or Multicap is this substantial? Looks like bias cap for the OPAmp?
"Sorry for the sample 10uf" not real just a sample question.
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a ceramic cap along the signal path is a no-no, replacing it with a film type will definitely be an improvement. ;D
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O eto naman...
what tubes (or their spec) make good candidates for headphone duties? my mind tells me a separate secondary winding for OPT will do the trick but tube specs have to be considered I suppose. OTL headamp or dual duties (amp and headamp).
there are many to chose from just look them up in the web...
yes, you can put a 600ohm tap at the output secondary along with the regular speaker output, or you can use you preamp for that purpose.
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other than looking at existing schematics/projects, what specification should i look for in a tube for headamp duties? For instance there are 6As7 OTL headamp -- why does 6As7 make a good tube for headamp?
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other than looking at existing schematics/projects, what specification should i look for in a tube for headamp duties? For instance there are 6As7 OTL headamp -- why does 6As7 make a good tube for headamp?
there are many out there, 6AS& has very low plate resistance, about 230ohms and therefore can be configured as a voltage amp, with just a coupling capacitor between its plate and the headphone, that is why the term OTL, but otoh it has a mu of only 2, therefore another triode stage is required to get the gains to more practical levels. for instance, a 12au7 with a mu of 17 will give the combination a voltage gain of 34, very nice! ;D
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Hi,
Gurus say that it is the 2nd order (or x order) harmonic distortion that give tubes a euphonic, irresistably sweet sound. Will I get/experience/hear that if I use a tube pre-amp with my SS integrated amp?
Thanks in advance.
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Hi,
Gurus say that it is the 2nd order (or x order) harmonic distortion that give tubes a euphonic, irresistably sweet sound. Will I get/experience/hear that if I use a tube pre-amp with my SS integrated amp?
Thanks in advance.
why not? ss amps does not introduce these distortion on their own. try it you may like it!
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Virtual centertapping is done by connecting 1 100R to each tap (AC) and joining the other end of the two resistors. I saw this usually on filaments.
when is it most appropriate to ground the virtual center tap?
Does the resistor value vary with the given voltagesm?
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Virtual centertapping is done by connecting 1 100R to each tap (AC) and joining the other end of the two resistors. I saw this usually on filaments.
when is it most appropriate to ground the virtual center tap?
Does the resistor value vary with the given voltagesm?
AC heaters needs to be connected to the tranny in a balanced/equal way. Unfortunately, AC heaters must have a DC path to HT ground in order to define the tube's heater to cathode voltage so it is appropriate to connect the center tap (virtual or not) to ground. One of the ways to achieve this is as you described above using equal value resistors or a humdinger (hum pot).
The most ideal way of defining the heater's DC path is to have a center-tapped heater winding which on several ocassions, 2ny recommends a bifillar winding technique for a matched voltage output. But if a center-tapped winding is not available then fixed or variable resistors can be used to define a midpoint (virtual ground).
For DC supplied heaters, it should be worth treating the heater wirings as if it were carrying AC as this would ensure that the there wouldn't be any heater induced hum. Normally, the output of a DC heater supply has no center tap and the ground of the DC heater supply is often connected directly to ground but as in AC, it would be better to derive a center tap using a pair of matched fixed resistors or using a humpot.
One excemption of connecting the center tap (virtual or not) of heaters to ground is if the tube's heater to cathode voltage has already been exceeded then you must connect this center tap (again virtual or not) to an elevated voltage reference.
Resistor values vary with increased heater supply voltage, it's value is chosen in such a way so as not to load the heater winding too much but also to draw enough current to force a voltage midpoint.
:)
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Virtual centertapping is done by connecting 1 100R to each tap (AC) and joining the other end of the two resistors. I saw this usually on filaments.
when is it most appropriate to ground the virtual center tap?
Does the resistor value vary with the given voltagesm?
i use 2 470 ohm resistors connected to each side of the filament winding, the midpoint is then connected to a voltage devider supplying dc voltage, i used 100k and 47k, the junction of the two resistors connect to the 2 470ohm reistors, the end of the 47k connect to ground and the end of the 100k connects to the B+.
that is why biffiliar wound filament ransformer winding will save you two resistors or a wire-wound resistor, just connect the center tap to ground or to a suitable B+ source.
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btw, just want to add and clear it for eXg.... virtual grounding can be used for both AC and DC heater supplies.
hth,
JojoD
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napakalinaw po.... salamat sa inyo! :)
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how exactly are these voltages measured? cathode pin and filament ground for the 100vdc? what about the 450vdc? what's the appropriate application of 100vdc and 450vdc?
sample rect spec:
(http://tinypic.com/iqyfm9.jpg)
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Hi,
Gurus say that it is the 2nd order (or x order) harmonic distortion that give tubes a euphonic, irresistably sweet sound. Will I get/experience/hear that if I use a tube pre-amp with my SS integrated amp?
Thanks in advance.
Hi.
I have tried this, both on a SS Integrated amp, and a SS power amp. I get better response on the power amp pairing... most likely because my integrated amp has no inputs that will bypass its preamp stage.
The thing with pairing a tube preamp with an SS integrated amp (without a bypass input) is that the amp will be driven by 2 inline preamps -- the tube, and the preamp section of your integrated amp. Yes, the even-order harmonics of the tube will be noticable, but so too will the odd-order "harsh" harmonics of the ss preamp section because the tube preamp will have a tendency to overdrive the ss preamp section.
On the other hand, if your SS integrated amp has a pre-amp bypass input, you should be fine.
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how exactly are these voltages measured? cathode pin and filament ground for the 100vdc? what about the 450vdc? what's the appropriate application of 100vdc and 450vdc?
sample rect spec:
(http://tinypic.com/iqyfm9.jpg)
it depends on the application of the tube.... for instance, in an SRPP topology, the tube on the top can very well be breaching it's cathode to filament limit. sometimes even phase splitters (or inverters) have high cathode resistors that elevates the cathode voltage from ground.
cheers
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2ny and Sonic Boom--Thanks.
My Nad has main-in/pre-out section. Salamat uli.
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how exactly are these voltages measured? cathode pin and filament ground for the 100vdc? what about the 450vdc? what's the appropriate application of 100vdc and 450vdc?
sample rect spec:
(http://tinypic.com/iqyfm9.jpg)
these are values that must never be exceeded or else safety of the tube is not guaranteed. so if you have tube applications, you have to be watchfull of this. for instance, cathode followers that are dc coupled to the preceeding stage, or phase splitters.
for srpp's the top tubes should have floating(no part is connected to ground) filament supplies so as to comply with this spec.
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will a circuit part failure (resistor, capacitor, etc..), in any way damage the vacuum tubes (or vice-versa)?
thanks,
:)
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will a circuit part failure (resistor, capacitor, etc..), in any way damage the vacuum tubes (or vice-versa)?
thanks,
:)
yes, same as with ss amps, compoment failures can lead to tube damage, ;D
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Re CHOKES:
from this link, http://republika.pl/diytriode/drugi_eng.htm, I quote:
"
I removed second choke in each PSU unit. It is another proof, that not always something, which is theoretically perfect, sounds the best. Double chokes make sound stiff and hard, dry and shouty, very precise but mechanical. Of course, there is a problem with hum using only one choke, but can be solve easily.
"
So when do we need a second choke? Does the choke's H value affect the B+ (increase or decrease the voltage)?
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re: heater-cathode voltage
the tubes will survive (not for long) if this parameter is exceeded. in my case, i have a preamp wherein the second stage is a cathode follower and the cathode voltage is 156 volts. the heater voltage is 40 volts so the cathode-heater is at 116V which exceeds the 80V limit.
since the tube i use has center tap for the filaments, i can easily lift the voltage to something to make it safe, however since my heaters are AC and lifting it with DC will cause a huge negative swing. it's ok for low-voltage filament tubes with 6.3V but not this one with 40 volts!
two solutions are possible: a) change the cathode resistor (lower) to lower the voltage difference, but increasing current draw, b) change the B+
i went for the second option.
re: circuit part failure
depending on the design, the failure of the first stage for example in a direct-coupled circuit could damage the power tubes (in a driver-DCed-power tube topology). there are variations to the direct-coupled like money, free lunch, etc. to make it safer.
tubes are robust, but should not be abused. the failure of the cathode resistor will screw up the bias of a power tube for example. it will survive but not for prolonged period.
re: multiple chokes
i use dual chokes on my type-45 amplifier (2W) and the person babysitting it now described its sound as warm sounding with balls on the bass. so it is not a generalization that dual chokes are bad (duh). when designing a PSU you should consider the requirements of the tube rectifier- they specifiy how much inductance it can take on either capacitor loaded or choke loaded mode. also the current rating of the choke should be close to the current drain of the circuit. in my experience, too much current capacity does not contribute much for filtering. example, if the circuit will draw like 30mA (in a preamp application) the chokes should be aroung 40-45mA. i used a 100mA once and alang kwenta sa filtering.
the choke's DCR will contribute to the voltage drop.
finally, not all chokes are designed for choke loading, some are smoothing chokes. input chokes require higher than usual insulation due to the large voltage swing being an input choke. when in doubt, use the choke in a CLC fashion instead of LC.
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tubes are robust, but should not be abused. the failure of the cathode resistor will screw up the bias of a power tube for example. it will survive but not for prolonged period.
yes, also an open grid leak resistor will increase plate current that leads to tube plates turning red, this is speacially severe in case of fixed bias amps. that is why a small resistor is installed at cathodes to serve as a fuse in this evetuality. cathode bias schemes are less prone as there is significant resistance in series with the plate to limit current in case grid leak resistor opens up.
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So when do we need a second choke? Does the choke's H value affect the B+ (increase or decrease the voltage)?
chokes in commercial amps are being avoided because of costs, but here where cost of core and copper are low, it is almost a crime imho to avoid them, that is if you are a serious diy'er ;D
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question lang.... I plan to install an small exhaust fan (used on PC's) beside my tube amp to slightly cool down the tubes when operational. Will this be a pro or a con as far as tube characteristics/performance are concerned. Amp is not on an enclosed cabinet......... inputs be very much appreciated, thnx.
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almost all datasheets of power tubes warns that power tubes need adequate ventilation, proper spacing between tubes etc.
i think your move would be on the "pro" side. ;)
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question lang.... I plan to install an small exhaust fan (used on PC's) beside my tube amp to slightly cool down the tubes when operational. Will this be a pro or a con as far as tube characteristics/performance are concerned. Amp is not on an enclosed cabinet......... inputs be very much appreciated, thnx.
better that the fan blows air into the tubes imho...
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also depends on room temperature. if you're going to blow air at mainit din, wag na lang. palagay ka na lang ng aircon sa audio room mo :) ako nga i barely use my ceiling fan pero buhay pa mga amp ko ;)
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thanks JojoD,2ny,arnoldc for all the inputs........ installed 1 each blowing the transformers and the tubes. the audio room is already airconed but since power rates are up, I thought of the fans as a cheaper alternative, besides, I only use it at night. thanks again.........
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yes fans are very cheap indeed, you can get these 120mm dc fans with controllers to vary the speed to your liking.
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which ones are good or bad caps (types not brands) for bypassing duties?
(http://tinypic.com/jrxxxd.jpg)
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can anyone make out which terminals to bypass from this pic? or do i just bypass all of them ??? :)
(http://tinypic.com/jrxyiq.jpg)
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yes, same as with ss amps, compoment failures can lead to tube damage, ;D
failed component -> failed tube -> will cause other tubes to fail also?
(sorry no-brainer yata tanung ko ;D)
what are the methods/designs employed to protect the tubes from sudden parts/component failure?
thanks again gurus!!!
8)
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failed component -> failed tube -> will cause other tubes to fail also?
(sorry no-brainer yata tanung ko ;D)
what are the methods/designs employed to protect the tubes from sudden parts/component failure?
thanks again gurus!!!
8)
very good question!
if you understand how ohm's law works, analysis of the output stage becomes a no-brainer, in terms of possible failures.
most failures are in the driver and output tubes, more so in the outputs. when the grid leak resistor opens, the grid on the output tubes are biased into 0volts, therefore big current flows, your output transformer can be damaged because of heat. this is more prevalent with fixed bias output stages than with self bias, as there is not much resistance to limit the flow of current. ???
but tubes unlike ss devices does not fail abruptly, there will be signs, like distorted sound or output tube plates turning cherry red, so you have time to turn the amp off. ;D
in the tube data sheets you will notice that grid leak resistor recommendations are given, they are best followed, or lower than those can be used, however, lowering the grid leak resistor value lowers the gain of the previous stage.
use of grid chokes are a good counter measure, ie. very low dc resistance compared to grid leak resistor.
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thanks a heap sir 2ny ;)
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I just switched from SS to a tube amp. I listen 3x a day:
1) in the morning from 6:30 - around 8:00am;
2) from 11:00am - 12:30pm
3) from 5:00pm - 10:00pm
With my SS amp, I used to leave it on 24/7 (as also recommended by the manufacturer), but with tubes I understand this is not advisable.
What would be best to prolong the life of the tubes (I understand that switching on-off is very stressful to the tubes):
a) switch it on and off for every session (on-off 3x a day)
b) switch it on in the morning, leave it on until 10pm (on-off 1x a day), and just set volume to 0 in between sessions
c) switch it on in the morning and off after the 2nd session (12:30pm); then switch it on at 5pm for the third session and off at 10pm (on-off 2x a day), volume at 0 between 1st and 2nd session.
Your inputs would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
GAOL
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What would be best to prolong the life of the tubes (I understand that switching on-off is very stressful to the tubes):
you have to understand that tubes have cathodes, and as such suffers from emission depletion with time, this is unavoidable no matter how youse your amp. this is more so with power tubes! small signal tubes normally will last you a life-time and will outlast most electrolytics in your amp. it is the power tube that is prone to exhaustion!
the better sequence would be, turn heaters on, then say 12 seconds later turn on the B+, when powering off, reverse the sequence.
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what material/gauge make excellent ground wires?
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ga14 solid copper wire, you can tin it with solder.
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you have to understand that tubes have cathodes, and as such suffers from emission depletion with time, this is unavoidable no matter how youse your amp. this is more so with power tubes! small signal tubes normally will last you a life-time and will outlast most electrolytics in your amp. it is the power tube that is prone to exhaustion!
the better sequence would be, turn heaters on, then say 12 seconds later turn on the B+, when powering off, reverse the sequence.
Thanks 2ny, I understand that I will have to replace the tubes (KT88s in my case) probably 1-2 years from now, and the small tubes twice that. I was just wondering what I could to to minimize shortening their life needlessly, given my listening habits.
Actually, my question could be summarized into: which is better, to leave a tube amp on, or to switch it on and off, if my listening sessions are not continuous but spread hours apart during the day?
I confess I don't really understand what you mean in the second paragraph. In my case, the prologue 2 amp has only the power switch.
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my 2 cents...
not sure if there's going to be big difference between your two options with respect to the life of the tubes and if ever there is, it'll be easy to tell with certainty.
i would turn it off during non-use. it saves power for sure (approx 10hrs a day!).
the B+ referred to by 2ny will only apply in your case with a mod (extra switch). btw, checked this and the soft-start feature somehow achieves same effect.
http://www.audiovenue.co.uk/products_info.asp?id=626&cat=1&sub=1
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i would turn if off when not using.
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Ah yes, I see. The PL2's soft start circuit actually addresses my concern. Autoadaptive bias, then this one, user-friendly pala talaga ang PL2, as it claims to be.
I'll do as you guys recommend, turn it off, that is. Tipid pa sa kuryente. Thanks!
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you have to understand that tubes have cathodes, and as such suffers from emission depletion with time, this is unavoidable no matter how youse your amp.
hi 2ny, are there early signs of this "depletion syndrome"? or does the tube just "drop" dead?
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i'm not sure! but what you can do is test the emission of the tube when first acquired, then a year later test it again and see what has changed.
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mga sir na experinced sa tubes !!!!is it good buy ba for starters like me to buy tube amps na medyo luma na ,lets say circa 70's and 80's ....totoo ba na ang tubes ay para lang sa mga medyo technically inclined?.....kung sakaling masira san pwede ipagawa to? (yung bang tipong member na with a good reputation when it comes to modifying and repairing) may mga tech support pa yung mga manufacturers nito?ano ang maganda for starter price wise and factors cant be noticed by a newbie like me? ;D
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Got a question.
Tube amps usually use capacitors which are like two caps in one package (eg. 47uF+47uF/500V). How are these constructed (internally)? If I use one 47uF for the left channel, then the other 47uF for the right will there be any disadvantage?
Thanks
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Got a question.
Tube amps usually use capacitors which are like two caps in one package (eg. 47uF+47uF/500V). How are these constructed (internally)? If I use one 47uF for the left channel, then the other 47uF for the right will there be any disadvantage?
Thanks
they are parallel to each other, individualy distinct, and can be used any which way you like as long as you observe correct polarity and that you do not exceed voltage ratings.
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Thanks for that 2ny.
I had the notion that they are only to be used for C-L-C filtering.
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Like this one:
(http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4530/clc6cw.jpg)
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to those who can share some info...
most of the ss amps I va had, heard or seen have a power on delay-most likely for protection (or maybe for charging the caps?) during power-on. usually a red colored light flashes upon turn on for a few seconds before it produces sound. Now, my amx tube amp do not have this feature.
My question is can this be, or more importantly, should this be implemented for a tube amp? the power on delay-relay i mean?
Salamat
m
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m,
most ss amps use the delay-relay for the speakers to be protected against those turn-on thumps. most well designed ss amps also has those soft-start circuits to protect the tranny and diodes when the filter caps are all empty, this way they can charge up a little before the full input voltage is applied.
for most tube amps, this has not been implemented since tubes has some soft start of their own especially when tube rectified. however, even tube rectified or ss rectified tube amps can also benefit from such a circuit for tube protection since most tube disasters occur during turn-on. this and several other reasons has prompted me to modify my tube amps to include such circuits to help prolong the tubes life.
cheers
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Thanks for your response.
Tama pala hinala kong beneficial sya.
Follow up questions sir:
Would that be a relatively hard and expensive modification to implement? relay lang kaya?
Would the mod be sonically transparent?
Would an external voltage regulator with power on delay serve the purpose?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge on the subject.
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Thanks for your response.
Tama pala hinala kong beneficial sya.
Follow up questions sir:
Would that be a relatively hard and expensive modification to implement? relay lang kaya?
Would the mod be sonically transparent?
Would an external voltage regulator with power on delay serve the purpose?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge on the subject.
Not too hard if you know what you're doing, not that expensive too. Syempre hindi lang relay yun. ;D
It should be sonically transparent since the relay shorts out the resistive element.
No it will not serve the same purpose, those outboard delays are only good for sudden power outages.
JojoD
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Thanks.
This hobby makes me want to enrol in an electronics class. but i might be too old to start now. but then...
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Thanks.
This hobby makes me want to enrol in an electronics class. but i might be too old to start now. but then...
It's never too late, knowledge doesn't care wether your 19 or 90, it's all up to you.
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My question is can this be, or more importantly, should this be implemented for a tube amp? the power on delay-relay i mean?
yes why not, but in case of tubes, the output side can be shorted for a moment till the whole amp stabilizes. as oposed to ss amps wherein the output is open circuit for a few secs.
i have experienced output transformer burnouts due to operating the amp without a speaker. ;D
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Here is a Power Supply Delay Action Board from Sophia Electric:
(http://www.sophiaelectric.com/images/parts/delay_action_board.jpg)
This board would permit to warm up vacuum tube filament first, and then switch to high plate voltage in about 20 - 30 seconds later. To protect your expensive output vacuum tubes such as 300B/2A3/845, KT88/El34.
- Green wires with LED are for pilot display.
- Braid green wires are for 6.3V AC (from tube filament supply).
- Red/Black wires (2 pairs) are being used to switch up to two (2) sets of power supply.
Instruction: When turn on main power switch, let the tube filament on first, 30 seconds later this delay action board is going to switch on (control two sets of plate voltage supplies).
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/parts/delay_action_board.htm
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That's a neat circuit, looks like a 555 timer? Nonetheless, this will surely protect your priced tubes.
Tony has posted (in another forum) a very simple circuit which you can use, it's as simple as it gets.
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why are SET's OPTs bigger than PP? At least that's what I notice and hope that's true, generally speaking.
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why are SET's OPTs bigger than PP? At least that's what I notice and hope that's true, generally speaking.
that is true, SET ouput transformers are much biggger than pp ouputs because of:
1. there is a unidirectional polarasing current that is always present in a SET ouput traffo.
2. we are dealing with two circuits here, one is dc, the other ac. that is why the set ouput traffo is always gapped, that it to prevent core saturation at low frequencies.
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why are SET's OPTs bigger than PP? At least that's what I notice and hope that's true, generally speaking.
I remember this question... transformers, star grounding and chilli! :o
;D ;D ;D
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mga sir san po pwede mgapagawa ng transformer with specific values...kasi when i was looking at specific diagrams iba-iba nag transformer na gamit nila ..................can you post reading materials po....yung may mga madaling diagrams
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sirs,
tube matching - how critical? will i wreck an amp in using unmatched different branded tubes ;D. if there would be audible sound difference vs. matched tubes, will an ordinary joe like me hear a difference? will that difference be measureable?
thanks for your patience :)
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Some AMX amps have a standby switch. What's it for?
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mga sir san po pwede mgapagawa ng transformer with specific values...kasi when i was looking at specific diagrams iba-iba nag transformer na gamit nila ..................can you post reading materials po....yung may mga madaling diagrams
depends on what transformer you want, can be a power tranny or an output tranny.
sirs,
tube matching - how critical? will i wreck an amp in using unmatched different branded tubes ;D. if there would be audible sound difference vs. matched tubes, will an ordinary joe like me hear a difference? will that difference be measureable?
thanks for your patience :)
you won't wreck the amp, I've tried it intentionally. yes you can use unmatched and different brand tubes, it will work. yes you can hear the difference, it's somewhat distorted but the more unmatched tube s you have the more difference. you can measure the difference at the cathodes, the higher transconductance the tube has the more current.
Some AMX amps have a standby switch. What's it for?
The stand-by switch employed by earlier AMX tube amps were implemented by removing the center tap of the HT supply. This way you can warm-up your tubes before the application of the high voltage supply. However, some earlier tube rectified versions show some blue glows when switching from standby-to-on position.
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The stand-by switch employed by earlier AMX tube amps were implemented by removing the center tap of the HT supply. This way you can warm-up your tubes before the application of the high voltage supply. However, some earlier tube rectified versions show some blue glows when switching from standby-to-on position.
The blue glow, is this bad? I noticed the rectifier emitting a blue glow seconds after power up. The blue glow disappears after some time.
I did change the tube rectifier. The new one doest not emit the blue glow. Is the old rectifier defective?
Regards.
Louie
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The blue glow, is this bad? I noticed the rectifier emitting a blue glow seconds after power up. The blue glow disappears after some time.
I did change the tube rectifier. The new one doest not emit the blue glow. Is the old rectifier defective?
Regards.
Louie
It has occured that the sudden flash of blue glow is caused either by the sudden demand of current and a fairly large input capacitor. Several of my specimens confirms that the input capacitor used was much too big (100uf) for the rectifier used (which should be about 40uf only), hence the blue glow. I believe this problem has been addressed already in their recent models.
To answer the question; your old tube rectifier may not necessarily be defective, it's just that the tube is exposed to repeated stress while the new rectifier is more stronger, it can handle the sudden load.
One solution I gave these users of those amps is to "manually bypass" this switch. What I mean is if your stand-by switch is part of a selector switch which is also used for the power-on, then instead of stopping at the stand-by position, immediately switch to power-on position. However, this may not be a solution if your input cap is off spec.
With a large, off specification input cap, your tube rectifier is bound to die sooner than is expected.
Best Regards,
JojoD
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Hi mga tube gurus, ask ko lang po sana kasi lately yung ts audio ni misis hindi na ganon kaganda tumunog,medyo garalgal na.I suspect yung tube nya medyo mahina na pero up to now tumutunog pa naman,so ang question ko when will i know when to replace the tube and what tube to replace? ;D
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With a large, off specification input cap, your tube rectifier is bound to die sooner than is expected.
Best Regards,
JojoD
I believe this is the problem. Will have it fixed.
Thanks for your explanation.
Louie
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I believe this is the problem. Will have it fixed.
Thanks for your explanation.
Louie
No problem Louie, anytime.
Oh and the recommended maximum input cap values can be found in the tube rectifier's datasheet.
Best Regards
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Hi mga tube gurus, ask ko lang po sana kasi lately yung ts audio ni misis hindi na ganon kaganda tumunog,medyo garalgal na.I suspect yung tube nya medyo mahina na pero up to now tumutunog pa naman,so ang question ko when will i know when to replace the tube and what tube to replace? ;D
what are the tube compliments? is it pp or set? ss or tube rectified?
::)
;D
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Hi mga tube gurus, ask ko lang po sana kasi lately yung ts audio ni misis hindi na ganon kaganda tumunog,medyo garalgal na.I suspect yung tube nya medyo mahina na pero up to now tumutunog pa naman,so ang question ko when will i know when to replace the tube and what tube to replace? ;D
I'm not tube Guru but possibly it might be Capacitors or something to do with the PSU, is it Tube rectified? How old is your Amp? My suggestion bring it to JojoD para ma-resolve agad yan, upgrade mo na rin ;)
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what are the tube compliments? is it pp or set? ss or tube rectified?
::)
;D
Sir jojoD818 its Ts audio 34.1 single ended pentode and tube rectified po ito, with 2-el34, 2-12ax7 and 1- 5ar4.
Sir odyopayl no plans to upgrade po,my wife and i are still happy with the sound nitong ts and its more than a year na and wala pa ako napalitan na tube ni isa ;D around 3hrs use everyday since we bought this. :)
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I'm not tube Guru but possibly it might be Capacitors or something to do with the PSU, is it Tube rectified? How old is your Amp? My suggestion bring it to JojoD para ma-resolve agad yan, upgrade mo na rin ;)
Hindi din ako tube guru ha, student pwede pa. ;D
Sir jojoD818 its Ts audio 34.1 single ended pentode and tube rectified po ito, with 2-el34, 2-12ax7 and 1- 5ar4.
Sir odyopayl no plans to upgrade po,my wife and i are still happy with the sound nitong ts and its more than a year na and wala pa ako napalitan na tube ni isa ;D around 3hrs use everyday since we bought this. :)
Hi ricky,
I hope I get it right, at low listening levels it's not distorted, but at higher volumes it starts to distorts. If this is the case then the best candidates are the 5AR4 and of course the power tubes since SEP like most SET operates in pure class A so the tubes are always conducting. If it were mine I'll borrow a known good 5AR4 first, if the distortion is not removed then maybe it's time to get a fresh pair of EL34 tubes. If the distortion is evident from low to high volumes try replacing the 5AR4, the rectifier may not be supplying enough voltage to your amp. If this doesn't fix it then we will go to the next step.
Provided that the 12AX7s are of good quality, they almost always last a lifetime. Baka may apo ka na buo pa yan. ;)
cheers
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Hi mga tube gurus, ask ko lang po sana kasi lately yung ts audio ni misis hindi na ganon kaganda tumunog,medyo garalgal na.I suspect yung tube nya medyo mahina na pero up to now tumutunog pa naman,so ang question ko when will i know when to replace the tube and what tube to replace? ;D
two things could have happened here:
1. nasanay ka na sa tunog, sinawaan ka na. garalgal is a symptom that your amp is clipping, back down on the volume.
2. tubes, specially output tubes could have worn-out, you can confirm that by simply directly replacing it with a new one and see if it solves the problem. it is good idea to have replacement tubes on hand, you can tube roll it to find out.
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Sir jojod thank you very much for that very detailed instruction,yes it becomes distorted at high volume levels say at midway.Ill try to look for a rectifier tube na 5ar4 and pwede din po ba yung coke bottle na 5u4g?
sir 2ny thanks din po,yes it was my plan before to buy different brands of 5ar4 and el34 for tube rolling purposes but sadly i wasnt able to attend to it,naubos po pera ko sa dvd collecting ;D
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Sir jojod thank you very much for that very detailed instruction,yes it becomes distorted at high volume levels say at midway.Ill try to look for a rectifier tube na 5ar4 and pwede din po ba yung coke bottle na 5u4g?
5U4G? For testing purposes yes, but your tests maybe inaccurate since you will yield a lower B+ when you use a 5U4G in place of the 5AR4.
If in the past it worked flawlessly even at past mid volume settings, then I'm pretty sure your problems can be solved by using tube replacements.
regards
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Whats the best option to use for a SS amp for a tube/SS amp setup? My current amp is HK630 for receiver and a rotel power amp.
1.) Tube CDP?
2.) Tube pre amp?
3.) Tube buffer?
TIA guys :)
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If you already have a dedicated cdp, just add tube buffer! Kung wala pa, tube cdp ka na! ;D
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ako din sir s2kov tube cdp din suggestion ko sa kanya kasi super SS na set-up nya right now eh para magkaroon naman ng lambing yung audio nya ;D ;D
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naku! dyan nagsisimula yan! ;D anyway, kaya namn ni matt eh! ;)
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sir s2kov ano po ba yung tube buffer? what does it do and how much would it cost? mas ok ba ito compared to outboard DAC?
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Tube buffer has good drive capability. Usually, no gain at all that gives low output impedance to match with your amp.
If you have a CDP that has good quality DAC built on it, tube buffer is a good candidate to use instead of using an active preamp! :)
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Just a couple of questions for the gurus and those with experience...
1. What transformers do you use in when you make your prototypes? Do you have one for each tube application or do you have a multipurpose transformer with 'multiple taps' (is there such a thing?) in your test bench?
2. What sort of internal modifications and parts are needed if:
a. I wish to change the driver tubes in my integrated amp from 12ax7 to 6sn7? 6sl7? Do I need a new transformer or is there a workaround in correcting the necessary voltages/current etc?
b. earphone out
c. passive/active preamp section?
3. Related to question #2, would the unit need lesser modifications if I plan to use 12sn7 instead?
4. On Chokes:
What do I look for when buying a used choke if I plan to use it on a preamp project for a 12ax7 family? for the 6sn7 variant? Is there a choke rating similar to transformer rating (xvolts-0-xvolts)?
Thanks.
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you may not need a new transformer for a 12ax7 to 6sl7 switch. normally the psu has some sort of dropping resistor which you can adjust to reach your desired supply for the 6sl7. if the heaters of the 12ax7 were wired for 6.3V operation then there wouldn't be much of a problem but if it is at 12.6V heater setup then maybe a 12sn7 would do but their gain and mu are from opposite sides of the world.
yes, it is useful to have a multi-tapped tranny for bench use.
changing from 12AX7 to whatever tube you like requires some computation so you can be sure that your new tube driver can deliver the required voltage swing etc. to your next stage.
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You can go to Podmoon in legarda for you power transformer needs! :)
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Just a couple of questions for the gurus and those with experience...
1. What transformers do you use in when you make your prototypes? Do you have one for each tube application or do you have a multipurpose transformer with 'multiple taps' (is there such a thing?) in your test bench?
2. What sort of internal modifications and parts are needed if:
a. I wish to change the driver tubes in my integrated amp from 12ax7 to 6sn7? 6sl7? Do I need a new transformer or is there a workaround in correcting the necessary voltages/current etc?
b. earphone out
c. passive/active preamp section?
3. Related to question #2, would the unit need lesser modifications if I plan to use 12sn7 instead?
4. On Chokes:
What do I look for when buying a used choke if I plan to use it on a preamp project for a 12ax7 family? for the 6sn7 variant? Is there a choke rating similar to transformer rating (xvolts-0-xvolts)?
Thanks.
1. What type of transformer? Power? Output? My amp prototyping chassis use Hammond 125ESE (from www.angela.com) output transformers due to the multiple primary/secondary connections I can use. The power transformer is sort of a "universal" type with several taps.
2a. Many factors have to be considered which will include the physical (octal vs. 9-pin), filament voltage/current, biasing, gain, drive capability, plate resistance, voltage and current issues. For example, the 12AX7 has a gain of 100 while the 6SL7 is 70.
2b. Use an impedance matching transformer for your headphone via the speaker output.
2c. in a passive mode, you feed the driver tube directly from a volume potentiometer. Depending on the circuit, you will have input impendance issues to consider.
3. 12SN7 is simply a 12.6V version of 6SN7
4. You need to determine the inductance, current capacity and DC resistance for you circuit. The rating is given as henry (inductance), mA (current), and DCR (impedance ). Example is 10H, 100mA, 100ohm DCR.
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Thank you sirs for your input. Others are welcome to share theirs as well.
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Team,
Patanong lang po. I dont know if this has been asked already.
Considering the layout and configuration of KT66 and EL34, is almost the same except for Pin 1,
Can I substitute KT66 to EL 34 parang KT88 to 6550( I dont konw if I understand it also correct for the latter).
Appreciate your advise.
Cheers.
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How familiar are you with the design of the amp? For starters, the EL34 max plate voltage is 800V whereas the KT66 is only 500V, the screen voltage of the EL34 is 500 max, while the KT66 is 400. depending on the design, you cannot just plug in a KT66 on an EL34-based amp. Dagdagan ko pa- they also have different output impedance.
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Thanks po Sir Arnoldc. I thought it is just a simple plug and play. Anyway thanks very much and you were very helpful.
Cheers.
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just a couple of questions............
1. what's the difference in terms of sonics/musicality of a winged-c EL34 from a non-winged C?
2. same question as above, between a 6550 and an EL34?
TIA
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have the following questions as well:
1) what set of tubes should i change first which will affect/improve the sound of the amp the most? (i.e. pre, output, etc.)
2) aside from mullard, any recommended brand for a 12ax7 tube? for a 12au7? for el34?
i just want to know your preferences so that i will not start from scratch.
maraming salamat!!!
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have the following questions as well:
1) what set of tubes should i change first which will affect/improve the sound of the amp the most? (i.e. pre, output, etc.)
A: I follow the principle that earliest stage makes the biggest impact: Input, Driver, then Output.
2) aside from mullard, any recommended brand for a 12ax7 tube? for a 12au7? for el34?
A: Be blindfolded, ask a friend to try several brands to try in your amp. Will take a lot of time but will definitely give you qualified results more than the bias of brandnames. For me, that is a preferrable approach. At any rate, search the web and you'll find people going crazy about some brands of these tubes. These may be true in their experience.
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there will be differences, that is for sure, the question is, should it matter to you? is it worth the expense?
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I want to replace the stock tubes on my amp how do I adjust the bias? ??? What tools do I need? Is it easy enough to do? (I have zero electronic know how! ::)) Not planning on experimenting with different tubes just want to be able to replace a busted tube....or would it be better to just bring it to hyperaudio or JojoD818?
Sir Jojo do you do house calls? ;D
Thanks ;D
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Dracula, I thought you got the PrimaLuna with the auto-bias board? Hindi kailangan ng manual bias for that.
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just a couple of questions............
1. what's the difference in terms of sonics/musicality of a winged-c EL34 from a non-winged C?
2. same question as above, between a 6550 and an EL34?
TIA
Depends on the design of the amp. Hard to generalize. The type of the output transformer used, the "subjective voicing" of the driver stage, the type of splitter (if push pull), the feedback, the class of operation (A, AB1, AB2, B)
Take this with a drum of salt- EL34 may have the edge/advantage on the mids and highs over the 6550. The 6550 will be better in bass, but will be more clinical or analytical. Again, depends on the design!
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have the following questions as well:
1) what set of tubes should i change first which will affect/improve the sound of the amp the most? (i.e. pre, output, etc.)
2) aside from mullard, any recommended brand for a 12ax7 tube? for a 12au7? for el34?
i just want to know your preferences so that i will not start from scratch.
maraming salamat!!!
Again, the sound of the amplifier will depend on the overall design and the chosen operating points.
Mullard, Telefunken, and all those exotic and ridiculously expensive 12AX7, 12AU7 will be beaten by other cheaper tubes.
Why not use Svetlana EL34, Ei 12AX7LP, or RCA grey plate 12AU7 that are cheap and should sound good. If the amps still does not sound good, then change the amp!
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Dracula, I thought you got the PrimaLuna with the auto-bias board? Hindi kailangan ng manual bias for that.
Unang labas ng Primaluna yung nakuha ko and it didn't come with the auto bias board yet.......was going to get the board retro fittted before I left the UK pero the parts didn't arrive early enough and we already had to leave....
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Ok, in the absence of the auto-bias board, you should see a bias adjust potentiometer for each power tube. You will need a digital voltmeter and you should check the manual for the bias voltage settings. you should adjust the bias as the tube heats up. Adjust after initial turn on, adjust after 15 minutes, adjust after 30 minutes and in one hour it should settle down.
If it is covered by warranty, I usggest you bring it to Audio Den who are the official disti for Prima Luna.
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i replaced my stock EL34 tubes on my Cayin A50T with Svetlana (non-winged C).
The reviews were right - mids and highs were fantastic. Bass is decent. good tubes for vocals at a reasonable price 3000 per quad set. also, replaced the stock 12ax7 with westinghouse 12axta/5751. Noticed less noise and more focus.
I am hearing mixed reviews on the winged c version, some say it's too boomy and mids are not as good. haven't tried it though.
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Again, the sound of the amplifier will depend on the overall design and the chosen operating points.
Mullard, Telefunken, and all those exotic and ridiculously expensive 12AX7, 12AU7 will be beaten by other cheaper tubes.
Why not use Svetlana EL34, Ei 12AX7LP, or RCA grey plate 12AU7 that are cheap and should sound good. If the amps still does not sound good, then change the amp!
sir arnoldc, thanks a lot . . . very informative for me! i have a cayin mt35 amp so i think there will be no problem if i get the more affordable ones.
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sirs, okey lang ba ikabit ang ss pre-amp to a tube integrated amp? I will use the pre-amp as my phono stage. dont know if its also okey to connect my dvd player to the pre-amp. And thus its sound will be the same?
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sirs, okey lang ba ikabit ang ss pre-amp to a tube integrated amp? I will use the pre-amp as my phono stage. dont know if its also okey to connect my dvd player to the pre-amp. And thus its sound will be the same?
pre-amp as phonostage? Kung yung ss pre-amp mo may built-in phonostage puede yan, pero kung yung pre-amp mo walang phonostage (yung may RIAA equalization circuit) di puede gamitin yan as a phonostage.
SS pre-amp to a tube integrated amp? puede yan pero assuming na tube integrated amp na gamit mo, kadalasan, may built-in na pre-amp circuit na 'yan. ::)
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sirs, okey lang ba ikabit ang ss pre-amp to a tube integrated amp? I will use the pre-amp as my phono stage. dont know if its also okey to connect my dvd player to the pre-amp. And thus its sound will be the same?
if your SS preamp has a phonostage , yes you can connect it to your tube integrated amp, but use the REC Out of the SS preamp. this will provide a fixed output going to your integrated amp
as to connecting your dvd player to the preamp as well - why?
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sirs, i only use the ss pre amp as a phono stage. I also want to connect my dvd player thru the pre-amp, i use my dvd plyer as my cdp. Thus the audio output will be the same as direct to my tube amp?
Thank sirs for your replies!
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sirs, i only use the ss pre amp as a phono stage.
As long as your SS pre-amp has a phonostage, no problem with that.
I also want to connect my dvd player thru the pre-amp, i use my dvd plyer as my cdp.
Thus the audio output will be the same as direct to my tube amp?
What do you mean by "audio output"? If you're thinking that the sound will be louder with the dvd player connected to the pre-amp, it will sound louder as the pre-amp, I assume, has it's own gain. As for the sound to be better or not, it's for you to judge.
Cheers.
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i have a matched quad set output/power(?) tubes, one went bad...
- can i just get another tube of the same kind/brand, to replace to the one dead tube?
- buy a pair, use it for either channel (L or R)?
- mix-match (brand) the tubes? :o
making a big mistake or ok lang?
ty 8)
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just get one of the same brand. and make sure you re-bias.
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just get one of the same brand. and make sure you re-bias.
thanks!
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I was at Glorietta yesterday and passed by Phasetron, and had a chance to listen to one of their tube amps using a CD player and I was very, very impressed with the sound.
I am thinking of getting a starter tube integrated amp and use my Marantz CD player on it. I have a NAD integrated amp and after hearing the tube amp, I am convinced that I NEED one!
Can anyone tell me how/where to start? I would prefer a very inexpensive system just to get my feet wet and later on, upgrade or replace.
I listen primarily to Jazz, instrumental and blues.
TIA.
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I was at Glorietta yesterday and passed by Phasetron, and had a chance to listen to one of their tube amps using a CD player and I was very, very impressed with the sound.
I am thinking of getting a starter tube integrated amp and use my Marantz CD player on it. I have a NAD integrated amp and after hearing the tube amp, I am convinced that I NEED one!
Can anyone tell me how/where to start? I would prefer a very inexpensive system just to get my feet wet and later on, upgrade or replace.
I listen primarily to Jazz, instrumental and blues.
TIA.
Hi,
If you already have a pair of speakers, better bring them along when you audtion tube amps, as you need a proper amp-speaker matching to bring out the best of the music you want.
Hope this helps.
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i want to replace the tubes on my amp.....can I do it myself? or do I need somebody to do it for me? where can I get the tubes? My amp's tube compliment is 4 el34, 12ax7 and 12au7....I've had the amp since 2004 but because we haven't sorted out the house we're moving into I haven't been able to set it up properly
Thanks in advance for the help
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If your amp does not require biasing of the output tubes, then you just simply replace the old ones with a fresh stock.
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Does anybody sell DIY integrated tube amp kit in the Philippines?
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Does anybody sell DIY integrated tube amp kit in the Philippines?
As far as I know, wala. What you can do is either purchase a kit from DIY Hifi Supply in HongKong; or download a tube amp circuit diagram and buy the parts yourself ;)
Hope this helps.
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sirs,
pwede paki-explika - tube buffers
what is decware's zsla-1? nakalagay sa descprition - single ended triode - stereo line stage, pero sa schematic diagram heading - tube attenuator / buffer.
http://www.decware.com/linestage/zp1.htm
click- "specs" on the left side of the display, schematic will appear at the bottom of next display
sa link na ito - http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1154211013&read&3&4&
may nagtanong tungkol sa tube buffers, at may sumagot to the effect na di lagi kailangan o advisable na gumamit ng tube buffer, depended sa gamit na gears.
eto po setup na balak ko insert tube buffer*---> dvdplayer -*- tubepreamp (12au7) - t.amps
worry ko baka "over"/"redundant" instead of improving the sound eh makagulo pa?
maraming salamat po :)
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sirs,
pwede paki-explika - tube buffers
is decware's zsla-1 same as a buffer? nakalagay sa descprition - single ended triode - stereo line stage, pero sa schematic diagram heading - tube attenuator / buffer.
http://www.decware.com/linestage/zp1.htm
click- "specs" on the left side of the display, schematic will appear at the bottom of next display
sa link na ito - http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1154211013&read&3&4&
may nagtanong tungkol sa tube buffers, at may sumagot to the effect na di lagi kailangan o advisable na gumamit ng tube buffer, depended sa gamit na gears.
eto po setup na balak ko insert tube buffer*---> dvdplayer -*- tubepreamp (12au7) - t.amps
worry ko baka "over"/"redundant" instead of improving the sound eh makagulo pa?
maraming salamat po :)
I believe the Decware zsla-1 is a tube buffer with a volume control. By itself it can act as a preamp.
I liked the zsla-1 concept, so i requested Jojo to convert my Tono preamp to a passive tube linestage with zero gain. This is the result:
12AU7 Unity Gain Preamp
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/JD%20Labs/RU-05.jpg)
Photo by JojoD
More info:
http://audioslavery.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=DIY&action=display&thread=1107836033&page=69
I was very happy with the result. Mated it with a Rotel RB-03 (70 watts). Galing sa Rock and ROll.
I would be redundant to add this to tour system. Just convert your tube preamp to passive one.
LOuie
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From what I understand, a buffer decreases the output impedance of a signal. The Decware you mentioned uses triode tubes but is unity gain kaya buffer lang sya.
A preamp is a buffer/attenuator/ and may or may not have gain.
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As I understand, a tube buffer/preamp will addup/spice some sonic flavorings to ur setup, especially with the addition of what they say as even order harmonics to ur current digital set-up, rich in odd order harmonics.
As they say, these even harmonics is synonymous to what makes it 'tube-sounding'.. Other than that, a buffer could act as a possible impedance matching correction/interface.
Mr Owediah, i think there is no harm in trying with that kind of your set-up.
Finally, your hi fi ears will decide...
Tsaka, sayang kung hindi naman magamit....benta mo na lang sa min ;D ;D ;D
'Real Audio, Glows In the Dark'....daw ;)
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thanks sir ru9 & bumblebee. :)
Tsaka, sayang kung hindi naman magamit....benta mo na lang sa min ;D ;D ;D
'Real Audio, Glows In the Dark'....daw ;)
tnx sir dana, baka kasi sa dami ng rekado di ko na malaman kung ano ang nagpasarap ng lasa? sabagay ganun din chopseuy - masarap ;D
benta? amperex6922PQusa white label? o yung singkwentaykwatro aNyOS? sige 300/pin...joke! ;D ;D ;D
glow in the dark ko - ambilyts from 168 ;D
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hey oweidah,
anything you put in front of the power amp is a pre-amp, so aside from the above mentioned, you can also try just a passive attenuator, or a transformer type preamp..you have many to choose from...
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Guys,
I have on one of my amps a GE5751 installed, recently got a tube printed JAN GE 5751 from Spin. Does the JAN label mean the 2 are of different versions? Haven't installed the JAN version yet since I am still trying out
the Sylvania which I also got from Spin. TIA
Devo
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JAN means "joint army navy" they are military grade tubes and are tighter in specs...
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Hi bros. just asking some help where can i buy a premium volume control for my vintage tube amp (pioneer sx 2000). I tried to diagnose the signal problems of the amp's left channel and the first thing i noticed was the worn-out surface carbon of the volume control input terminal. I will try to replace it first before i go farther. Thanks in advance.
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Pot? I think Silver Strings carry Alps. And DACT.
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Thanks sir bumblebee can i ask their exact locations please...
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CO2,
Try cleaning the potentiometer with a contact cleaner first. If there's a scratchy sound on your left channel then the problem is on the pot. If no sound is coming from the left channel, the problem may not be on the potentiometer.
Alps and DACT may be alternatives but may not fit into your amp. Better check the actual size of your pot. Some amps require a center tap on the volume control pot. Better check it else, you may end up buying something you cannot use.
Cheers
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Hi CO2,
You can also check Eleshop at Ronquillo St. parallel Raon for your volume pot.
They also carry some good brands accdg to friend Owediah (pls check his postings...)
Medyo affordable daw... :)
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JAN means "joint army navy" they are military grade tubes and are tighter in specs...
thanks for the clarification........ will tubes having military specifications yield improved sonics compared with commercial ones. also worked once on a semicon but was not able to deal with application, just more on specs comparison between the two. TIA
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Thanks guys for your help.
Sir Jag i already removed and inspected the volume pot of the amp and i noticed some deep thinning of the carbon on the input side which maybe the cause of erratic and scratchy sound of the left channel. I just hope that replacing the pot can remedy the problem.
Sir dana i will try to find time to locate the place as soon as i can.
Nevertheless, here's some pics of the amp. which i think worth restoring:
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RwCVAlcUqslA0MIfG1b0HooVFZmXO9Hf9ltoKoTI6n50P8yeO*Ez!S!gVuT1qNYOC815bGaFaeoav5VvXHP9znZkr2M7FGU!A6KIBvVnY*I/sx-800-ps1.jpg?dc=4675583437876377905)
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SAAAALkUWuRA0MIfG1b0Hvi2Djzi2j1BRUqUiP5436YAIBpQBOodXeyIOEquQURM1e6JE4OavSqzK5RJBz1N8mNSoUgX0z!PQPyfwk2JjVsAAAAAAAAAAA/sx-800a-ps2.jpg?dc=4675583437930414957)
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SADVAroUluRA0MIfG1b0HsuMb2qqduygELmocuzSFf0DMKMNp2UOnulUwKXAo0HrUoCLqI0mgL2OxMoR8yf8K3ZD!NVnEAFgQuOBaxwRKQM4AAAAynJRAg/sx-800a-ps3.jpg?dc=4675583437981545747)
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Anyway guys i also want to ask how can i test a busted tube?
TIA
Simpliest way to test a tube is to try it on a known gear, but this will only tell you that it's good or bad. Besides, I will only do this on signal tubes and not power/rectifier tubes. Real tube testers can tell how strong or how weak the tube is.
HTH
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thanks for the clarification........ will tubes having military specifications yield improved sonics compared with commercial ones. also worked once on a semicon but was not able to deal with application, just more on specs comparison between the two. TIA
The JAN specification means that the component or part has been tested about 3 - 4x more than military grade specification which is already tight. I was surprised myself when I encountered ICs having lot travellers that contain steps repeating the same tests over and over. You can be sure that buying JAN grade is like getting the top 1% of a typical military grade part.
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The JAN specification means that the component or part has been tested about 3 - 4x more than military grade specification which is already tight. I was surprised myself when I encountered ICs having lot travellers that contain steps repeating the same tests over and over. You can be sure that buying JAN grade is like getting the top 1% of a typical military grade part.
thanks a lot Rascal for the input................
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hmmm...i still remember in the early 70's you can buy those JAN tubes (peanut ones) on white cartons for 1peso each, even cheaper than japanese made tubes...the market must have been overflowing then.... :'(
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Just a quick one (or 2) for those who know:
All things being equal (parts, topologies, maker, tubes) / Theoretically which should sound better, a) an SS rectified but Tube regulated preamp or b)tube rectified but SS regulated preamp? Why?
Thanks
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If line regulation, ripple rejection ratio, rms output noise %, delta t/delta v, for your two specimen circuits and provided they supply exactly the same tube circuit.
My answer is the same. But we live in a real world scenario and this circuits can be affected by such so it may also be not the same.
Which one sounds better is subjective and cannot be told by just looking at the parts and mathematical computation. We are scientists, not fortune tellers my friend. :)
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i wish there is an easy answer, but try to consider that designs are more on personal preferences, parts availability and finaly that of costs..meron ding uso-uso dyan, so what is fashionable at the moment is it.
wether-weather din, you see this in many ss designs...
you will see many designs on the web and also the many hypes that accompany such designs...
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If line regulation, ripple rejection ratio, rms output noise %, delta t/delta v, for your two specimen circuits and provided they supply exactly the same tube circuit.
My answer is the same. But we live in a real world scenario and this circuits can be affected by such so it may also be not the same.
Which one sounds better is subjective and cannot be told by just looking at the parts and mathematical computation. We are scientists, not fortune tellers my friend. :)
Thanks. I was asking lang sana if may sonic advantage ang tube reg over ss reg since I have access to an od3 kaya I also said na all things being equal. Hoping for something like, "SS should sound better because of this" or "tube reg should sound better because of that." (theoretical) I appreciate your responses though. hehe
Hey, we all can be both and more! Scientist sa umaga, fortune teller sa hapon at dance instructor sa gabi? :) Thanks Sirs JD and Tony.
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Follow up question..
How does one correctly determine the proper value of a pot to use in a power amp or preamp? Bakit yung iba 50k or 20K or 100K is it also 'subjective'? If not, what is the sense of using a 100K pot with an output impedance (?) of say 500K? Why not use 250K/500k pot din? Sorry for the newbie type questions. I'd appreciate being educated here. Thanks in advance.
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Thanks. I was asking lang sana if may sonic advantage ang tube reg over ss reg since I have access to an od3 kaya I also said na all things being equal. Hoping for something like, "SS should sound better because of this" or "tube reg should sound better because of that." (theoretical) I appreciate your responses though. hehe
Hey, we all can be both and more! Scientist sa umaga, fortune teller sa hapon at dance instructor sa gabi? :) Thanks Sirs JD and Tony.
see Tony's post. It is subjective indeed. Built properly, both will achieve what they are designed to do, i.e. regulate.
Want a better way to know? Build both and listen. ;) ;D
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Follow up question..
How does one correctly determine the proper value of a pot to use in a power amp or preamp? Bakit yung iba 50k or 20K or 100K is it also 'subjective'? If not, what is the sense of using a 100K pot with an output impedance (?) of say 500K? Why not use 250K/500k pot din? Sorry for the newbie type questions. I'd appreciate being educated here. Thanks in advance.
I think that during the haydays of tubes (matagal na yun siguro), only high value pots are available since most tube gears have high output impedances (they use high value pots to prevent loading the preceeding stage), while they started to manufactur lower value of pots to accomodate ss applications.
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Follow up question..
How does one correctly determine the proper value of a pot to use in a power amp or preamp? Bakit yung iba 50k or 20K or 100K is it also 'subjective'? If not, what is the sense of using a 100K pot with an output impedance (?) of say 500K? Why not use 250K/500k pot din? Sorry for the newbie type questions. I'd appreciate being educated here. Thanks in advance.
depende yan sa output resistance ng preceding stage, low values of ouput resistance say 1K, 20k or so is desireable for low noise. 500k is used if the preceding stage has an output resistance greater than 50K...
there is such a rule as rule of ten(10) in electronics, i am sure many knows this, that is if a resistor is in series or in parallel with another resistor, then as long as it is 10x or more in value, then for pratical purposes, this resistor is is taken as if it was not there.
the reverse of that rule is applied in the case of output resistance loaded or shunted by volume pots. ;D
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Fully appreciated both responses...
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sirs,
pwede paki-explika - tube buffers
what is decware's zsla-1? nakalagay sa descprition - single ended triode - stereo line stage, pero sa schematic diagram heading - tube attenuator / buffer.
http://www.decware.com/linestage/zp1.htm
click- "specs" on the left side of the display, schematic will appear at the bottom of next display
sa link na ito - http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1154211013&read&3&4&
may nagtanong tungkol sa tube buffers, at may sumagot to the effect na di lagi kailangan o advisable na gumamit ng tube buffer, depended sa gamit na gears.
eto po setup na balak ko insert tube buffer*---> dvdplayer -*- tubepreamp (12au7) - t.amps
worry ko baka "over"/"redundant" instead of improving the sound eh makagulo pa?
maraming salamat po :)
Sir Oweidah,
Iyung TDS202 niyo di ba puwedeng after DVD player niyo
dvd player -> TDS202 -> pre-amp -> power amp
My take on this tube buffer ...
Ang buffer stage kasi di ba unity gain siya so ano iyung sense na maglagay ng tube buffer. Naiintindihan ko kung gusto mo ng current gain which is typical for SS. Kung hindi siya unity gain, bakit hindi na lang tawagin na tube amp stage kasi after sa DAC ng CDP o DVD player may gain stage ka naman dun eh. Kailangan mo talaga siya dahil di naman kaya nung DAC na i-drive iyung output signal niya patungo sa pre-amp without significant attenuation.
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you are correct, the only reason to use a tube buffer is so that your system will have that tube sound which is in nowadays...try it and you may even like it. ;D
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The buffered circuit has good drive capability and a low O/P impedance. The power amp want´s as low load as possible to draw the signal.
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you are correct, the only reason to use a tube buffer is so that your system will have that tube sound which is in nowadays...try it and you may even like it. ;D
Kung hindi na babasagin ang tubo ... ;D
Seriously, if the intent is to get that "tube" sound I think it is best to use a tube pre-amp or power-amp. To me (at least) a differential amp stage (via diff amp IC or discrete) after the DAC IC would make more sense.
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even the "foreplay" preamp has a gain of about 2 very close to unity right? a preamp is also a buffer, while a buffer is also a preamp, you put them before the power amp, that is why they are called preamps... ;D
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geez, I crack myself up! LOL!
;D ;D ;D
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LOL!!! ;D ;D ;D
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is it that foreplay has 10dB gain?
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from my caculations of the foreplay's gain of x2 is 6db, while a gain of 10db is x3.16, so you see my calculations are quite good. ;D
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so, 2 is a voltage gain which is different to what i thought?
ayuz! ;D
from my caculations of the foreplay's gain of x2 is 6db, while a gain of 10db is x3.16, so you see my calculations are quite good. ;D
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even the "foreplay" preamp has a gain of about 2 very close to unity right? a preamp is also a buffer, while a buffer is also a preamp, you put them before the power amp, that is why they are called preamps... ;D
Kaya nga huwag mo nang gagalawin pa CDP mo at maglagay ng tube buffer ek ek. Mag tube pre-amp ka na lang o di kaya power-amp. ;D
Ang 2 hindi malapit sa unity. Malayong malayo pa iyun. Kung ang tangkad ko eh doble sa iyo sasabihin mo ba sa akin malapit na at mag sing tangkad na tayo. ;D ;D ;D
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no problemo, you are free to think and speak as you like! ;D
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no problemo, you are free to think and speak as you like! ;D
and also free to do as you please. ;D
rascal,
yun ek ek sa iyo na hindi mo nadidinig pwedeng nadidinig ng iba. your ears are not theirs, as theirs are not yours.
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and also free to do as you please. ;D
rascal,
yun ek ek sa iyo na hindi mo nadidinig pwedeng nadidinig ng iba. your ears are not theirs, as theirs are not yours.
I don't agree na walang difference sa pandinig. I don't agree with putting tube buffers or modding anything inside (except maybe to replace the defective parts) inside the CDPs because I do not want to modify anything inside. External mods puwede sa akin.
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External yata yung tube buffer na tinutukoy.
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ano nga ba? ;D
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Dami kasing sa loob dumadale. Sayang naman iyun CDP kung ginalaw.
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Dami kasing sa loob dumadale. Sayang naman iyun CDP kung ginalaw.
you are of course expressing your opinions right?
otherwise sa kinalang CDP yon.... and if it were me, it is not my bussiness to tell them what to do with with it. if they want to have it with tube buffers, by all means go for it. it's their money after all. :o
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you are of course expressing your opinions right?
otherwise sa kinalang CDP yon.... and if it were me, it is not my bussiness to tell them what to do with with it. if they want to have it with tube buffers, by all means go for it. it's their money after all. :o
took the words right out of my mouth. 8)
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you are of course expressing your opinions right?
otherwise sa kinalang CDP yon.... and if it were me, it is not my bussiness to tell them what to do with with it. if they want to have it with tube buffers, by all means go for it. it's their money after all. :o
Yes. It is not my business what people want to do with their gears but it certainly voids any warranty if you do anything inside within the prescribed period. Correct? Also, you may no longer have the reference sound which you may want to compare over time. Unless mods comes with switches (rare).
The challenge to me is how to do produce the sound that you like without changing original designs of audio sources, pre-amps, amps and speakers and attacking the remaining weakest link(s) through science (not pseudo science) and engineering.
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I bet that has been a challenge for other design engineers as well. And since people have different tastes, this shall still be a challenge for many years to come. :D
What is pseudo science? That got me confused.
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Pseudo science - looks and sounds like science but is not; marketing hype
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Pseudo science - looks and sounds like science but is not; marketing hype
Ah, just as I thought... that is probably the new branch of science called Magic. Now you see it, now you don't. ;D
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i tend to be argumentative when i see there is a point that needs to be emphasized, otherwise if i feel my posting will not contribute anything of substance i'd rather keep quiet..... ??? :( :o
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excellent values indeed. :)
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teke, teka......
nde na ko makasunod, ano na ba ang topic? ;D
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teke, teka......
nde na ko makasunod, ano na ba ang topic? ;D
everything you always wanted to know about tubes but were afraid to ask...
tama ba senyor? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ask ko lang mga sirs.
resistor:
3K9=3.9K?
0R22=.22 Ohms?
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Ask ko lang mga sirs.
resistor:
3K9=3.9K?
0R22=.22 Ohms?
correct po sir bumblebee.
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Master JojoD, thanks :)
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Question to anyone who'd care to answer or would like to share an opinion....
Does the "like drive like" approach make sense or is wasteful? An example: if you have an EL34 why use a 12ax7/6922/6sn7 to drive it? Use another EL34 to drive an EL34, 2a3 to drive a 2a3, etc. May sense ba ito or sayang lang tubo?
Thanks.
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Question to anyone who'd care to answer or would like to share an opinion....
Does the "like drive like" approach make sense or is wasteful? An example: if you have an EL34 why use a 12ax7/6922/6sn7 to drive it? Use another EL34 to drive an EL34, 2a3 to drive a 2a3, etc. May sense ba ito or sayang lang tubo?
Thanks.
there is only one way to find out....try it... ;D
EL34 is not hard to drive compared to a 2A3 in terms of voltage swing at the grid...
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Thanks as usual sir. Im thinking of el84 narin. hehe
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sir rene , how much wil u charge me if i ask u to assemble my marantz model 8 ? this kit has been with me since my father passed away. i used to hang out in ur place during the 80s wid tom c. & rey c. Im now retired & thinking about audio again. BY the way do u still have my mags. cuz im about to send to you another vintage mags its Sams audio amplifiers.
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Question to anyone who'd care to answer or would like to share an opinion....
Does the "like drive like" approach make sense or is wasteful? An example: if you have an EL34 why use a 12ax7/6922/6sn7 to drive it? Use another EL34 to drive an EL34, 2a3 to drive a 2a3, etc. May sense ba ito or sayang lang tubo?
Thanks.
because you need gain. an EL34 driving another EL34 will not give you the same gain as 6SN7 driving an EL34.
sad thing is we see 45 driving a 45 with an input transformer in front for gain. eh di nawala na din yung principle...
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Ah, I see. Thanks sir. Can it be done for purely power amp design lang? Gain provided by preamp? Thanks again!!
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yes, we're talking of power amp. i'll make it simple-
6SN7 (Av=20) -> 2A3 (Av=4) - total Av (voltage gain, theoretical) = 80
2A3 (Av=4) -> 2A3 (Av=4) - total Av = 16
Ang layo di ba? You need a preamp that will provide Av = 64 to match that driven by 6SN7.
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Thanks and thanks.
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2A3 (Av=4) -> 2A3 (Av=4) - total Av = 16
come to think of it, an input transformer with a turns ratio of 2 will make the total gain 32, not bad, specially since you will not be using negative feedback.
gains of 60 is handy if you intend to use negative feedback...the Dynaco ST70 has a gain of about 20 with feedback connected..
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Tony, gawa mo ko transformer, gawa ako ng 2A3 drive 2A3, he he he
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OT:
kelan ang uwi nyo? nag start na si ferds sa amin since last week! :)
come to think of it, an input transformer with a turns ratio of 2 will make the total gain 32, not bad, specially since you will not be using negative feedback.
gains of 60 is handy if you intend to use negative feedback...the Dynaco ST70 has a gain of about 20 with feedback connected..
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Tony, gawa mo ko transformer, gawa ako ng 2A3 drive 2A3, he he he
yeah, why not..... ;D
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OT:
kelan ang uwi nyo? nag start na si ferds sa amin since last week! :)
last week ng january... ;D
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yeah, why not..... ;D
Ayan, may project na for next year :D
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medyo kakahiya yung tanong ko...
Do you hook your ipod's to your Tube Amp?
Meron kasi ako nakita ng cool product from sonic integrity. Ang mahal lang
http://www.tube-pod.com/detail/index.cfm?nPID=318
;D
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yup - i connect it directly and use the volume controller on my ipod, no more preamp :)
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yup - i connect it directly and use the volume controller on my ipod, no more preamp :)
Can you connect it to Aux inputs thru a y-cable?
Thanks
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How will you know the tubes in your tube pre amp or tube CDp are used up already? TIA :)
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How will you know the tubes in your tube pre amp or tube CDp are used up already? TIA :)
tube tester, or insert new tubes of the same spec/brand and a/b.
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tube tester, or insert new tubes of the same spec/brand and a/b.
Umm... i think tube tester would be more accurate :) We do provide this service for free if you want to test your tubes.
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Umm... i think tube tester would be more accurate :) We do provide this service for free if you want to test your tubes.
maglagay kayo ng branch dito sa makati para libre lahat ng tube testing ko. ;D
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Bigyan mo ako ng tongsol mo at i home service ko pa testing hahaha ;D
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How will you know the tubes in your tube pre amp or tube CDp are used up already? TIA :)
if you are reffering to miniatures, 9pins, these tubes can last a lifeltime...since they are almost always operated at a fraction of their plate ratings...wag lang mabagsak...
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Bigyan mo ako ng tongsol mo at i home service ko pa testing hahaha ;D
kapag makahanap pa ako txt kita agad. ;D
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if you are reffering to miniatures, 9pins, these tubes can last a lifeltime...since they are almost always operated at a fraction of their plate ratings...wag lang mabagsak...
Ouch!
;D
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How would you know if a tube is NOS?
Is it possible for a NOS tube to have corroded pins? How about readings that is approaching the minimum?
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How would you know if a tube is NOS?
Is it possible for a NOS tube to have corroded pins? How about readings that is approaching the minimum?
they should have markings on them that are intact and distinctly readable...they should have strong readings...
as to minimum readings, depende na yan sa credibility ng nagbebenta...pwede mo namang tanggihan...
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I have NOS tubes with corroded pins, but the markings are clear and tests strong. I used the 3M contact cleaner posted at Wiredstate to clean the pins. The corrosion sometimes are just grime, and depends on how well the tubes were stored.
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TonyT, ArnoldC, thanks!
So if the seller tells you that it is Amperex NOS gold pin, then the pins should not be corroded (it should be gold plated) and the label should have been visible on the tubes?
Ok, thanks, I will keep this in mind when I buy tubes.
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it is always best to buy tubes that were tube tester tested. The readings are always improtant. The markings are not always present when you buy tubes since matatanda na ito.
If the seller would permit you to return the tube when tested to be weak, the better. If not, buy at your own risk. However, if the value is too small naman like 250 - 400 and its a rare tube, then its worth the risk.
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hmmm tubes nga naman, little did those guys know that long after theyre gone, the next generations will be hunting for these glowing glasses. as time goes by, stocks will dwindle and eventually the wells dry up. though demand might not really be that much, the value of nos tubes remains (and increases).
yung ibang diyrs are settling for less commercial, less popular, unnoticed, but available tubes or tube substitute (ex: 5963 for 12au7) to use in their hobby.
the best are tube-tester tested tubes, whether nos or new production. ;D
as for me, i thank God for spin, mang ben & gerry. :)
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@oweidah,
sinabi mo pa...... ;D anyway, if you are a DIY'er at heart, Knowing Gerry, our amiable tube magnate is a must!!! ;D
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para sakin ang NOS eh si pareng Oweihda. hehehe. salamat sa mga bp's. ;D
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@oweidah,
sinabi mo pa...... ;D anyway, if you are a DIY'er at heart, Knowing Gerry, our amiable tube magnate is a must!!! ;D
he's THE MAN! ;D ;D ;D
para sakin ang NOS eh si pareng Oweihda. hehehe. salamat sa mga bp's. ;D
ngek ???
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as for me, i thank God for spin, mang ben & gerry. :)
agree ako jan...(have yet to meet 'Mr would have been riched' Mang Gerry, and Master Sir Tony though ...:-[) salamat rin kay Annie (spin) ,Mang Rod :)!
hayyyy, cno pa kayang mga Manong ang mameet natin sa hobby na to....im sure nasa sulok sulok lang cla, tahimik at very low profile...
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agree ako jan...(have yet to meet 'Mr would-have-been-riched' Mang Gerry,[/size] and Master Sir Tony though ...:-[) salamat rin kay Annie (spin) ,Mang Rod :)!
hayyyy, cno pa kayang mga Manong ang mameet natin sa hobby na to....im sure nasa sulok sulok lang cla, tahimik at very low profile...
or resting in peace & (tube) rolling in their graves, kung malaman nila na yung daan pisong tube eh kinakagat ng libo-libo sana limpak-limpak ang salapi nila! meron din uugod-ugod na pero ang matino pa pag-iisip dami tubes & tube info to share w/ the younger generation.
at sana suportahan natin ang tube magnate-mang gerry- he deserves it! :)
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hindi malaking issue sa akin yung corroded pins, pwede namang linisin , kaya di ko nagcomment....halata naman kung gamit na eh... ;D
minus 6* dito paglabas ko na eroplano...ginawww... ::) :o
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hindi malaking issue sa akin yung corroded pins, pwede namang linisin , kaya di ko nagcomment....halata naman kung gamit na eh... ;D
minus 6* dito paglabas ko na eroplano...ginawww... ::) :o
Actually, I don't mind corroded pins too, and like you said halata naman kung gamit na. ;D
Anyway, I ask the question because somebody told me that he will be using a NOS gold pin on my project and I was charged for the price of a pair of NOS tubes.
Unfortunately, the person did not install a pair of NOS tubes as far as I can tell.
So, I am paying exorbitant "tuition fee" for my tube education. Some people out there are poised to rip you when they can.
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Actually, I don't mind corroded pins too, and like you said halata naman kung gamit na. ;D
Anyway, I ask the question because somebody told me that he will be using a NOS gold pin on my project and I was charged for the price of a pair of NOS tubes.
Unfortunately, the person did not install a pair of NOS tubes as far as I can tell.
So, I am paying exorbitant "tuition fee" for my tube education. Some people out there are poised to rip you when they can.
hmmm
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/jron1997/amperex6922003.jpg)
from experience, wala ako nakitang corrosion sa SPIN sourced amperex 6922 goldpins.
ripoff?! welcome to real pinoy tube world ;D
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oweidah,
yan na nga yung nos... ;D ;D
@alexg,
charge na lang to experience... ;)
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ripoff?! welcome to real pinoy tube world ;D
WELCOME!!! ;D
...
charge na lang to experience... ;)
Your experience ripping you off? !!! ;D ;D ;D
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oweidah,
yan na nga yung nos... ;D ;D
@alexg,
charge na lang to experience... ;)
yup, somehow i have to pay my tuition, right?
thanks.
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hmmm
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/jron1997/amperex6922003.jpg)
from experience, wala ako nakitang corrosion sa SPIN sourced amperex 6922 goldpins.
ripoff?! welcome to real pinoy tube world ;D
baka may extra ka pang 1pc, let me know :D :D :D
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baka may extra ka pang 1pc, let me know :D :D :D
superman,
sensha ubos na. got them for 285php@ and sold at 1k@ lang- hind presyong ginto. (hukay tayo ng ginto sa bundok diyan then itubog pins ng matsus***a bka tumaas ang market value? ;D ;D ;D)
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THANKS! :D
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I would just like to ask what is the similarity and difference between a Single Ended Triode (SET) and a Single Ended Pentode (SEP)?
I read somewhere that, "In a single-ended triode (SET) vacuum tube electronic amplifier the entire audio signal waveform is amplified by the power triode".
Is this the same with a SEP, in which a single pentode vaccum tube amplifies the entire audio signal waveform?
Pardon the ignorance.
Thanks in advance.
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I would just like to ask what is the similarity and difference between a Single Ended Triode (SET) and a Single Ended Pentode (SEP)?
I read somewhere that, "In a single-ended triode (SET) vacuum tube electronic amplifier the entire audio signal waveform is amplified by the power triode".
Is this the same with a SEP, in which a single pentode vaccum tube amplifies the entire audio signal waveform?
Pardon the ignorance.
Thanks in advance.
It's okay. I think I already have something here: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-16372.html (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-16372.html)
Thanks anyway.
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nice read, answered your questions too.....
i remember growing up in the 1960's we had an admiral 21inch BNW tv set. my father replaced the original speaker with a jensen 8incher in its own baffles and i would say the sound rocks...
it used a 6AQ5 single ended pentode audio amp, with no global feedback...millions of these SEP amps sold....(inside TV's of course.) ;D
triode or pentode? they have their own sets of colorations, it now boils down to your prefferences, both are capable to give you listening pleasure with the right set of speakers...
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it used a 6AQ5 single ended pentode audio amp, with no global feedback...millions of these SEP amps sold....(iside TV's of course.) ;D
triode or pentode? they have their own sets of colorations, it now boils down to your prefferences, both are capable to give you listening pleasure with the right set of speakers...
sir tonyT
uy 6aq5- 7pin pentodes eto balak ko ipa-diy single ended amp. kasi walang makuha cheap 6bq5/el84. parang 6v6 daw ito.
-------
sir bogsle
sampol schematic diagrams in case u may wana diy
- http://www.diyzone.net/diy/references/tube/6aq5cathodefollower.pdf
-http://www.nijnkonijn.nl/machmat/schema/power/se/6aq5.gif
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new question sirs:
What audible differences can be expected when comparing a Directly Heated Triode preamp versus an Indirectly Heated Triode preamp? Let's say a 300B preamp vs. a 6SN7 preamp.
Hindi pa kasi ako nakakarinig ng DHT preamp, so I'm curious. Thanks.
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uy 6aq5- 7pin pentodes eto balak ko ipa-diy single ended amp. kasi walang makuha cheap 6bq5/el84. parang 6v6 daw ito.
Yung 6bq5 meron sa southern, TRIGON ang brand, 300 each, or contact gerry, minature seven pin sockets are available in ongpin...
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meron ba trigon el34 dun?
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me nakapagsabi sa akin.... ;D
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new question sirs:
What audible differences can be expected when comparing a Directly Heated Triode preamp versus an Indirectly Heated Triode preamp? Let's say a 300B preamp vs. a 6SN7 preamp.
Hindi pa kasi ako nakakarinig ng DHT preamp, so I'm curious. Thanks.
I made a DHT preamp using 01-A, and compared to my Western Electric 407A preamp, the 01-A brings out more soul to the music, the transparency is captivating. But of course, it is still subjective.
Just one comment on those commercial "DHT" preamps that has IDHT in the circuit, to sayang lang. Nag DHT ka pa kung lalagyan mo din ng IDHT. But still kanya kanya pa din yan. Basta ako pure, unadulterated DHT rules. ;)
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Yung 6bq5 meron sa southern, TRIGON ang brand, 300 each, or contact gerry, minature seven pin sockets are available in ongpin...
tnx.
puro exotic tubes ang na k gerry. ganda nung horny 829b 832 ;D
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oweidah,
a push-pull 6AQ5 is a good idea, i built my first push-pull amp in 1968 using tv vertical output tubes, the 6EM5, simmilar to that of a 6973, you may also try 6GK6 a pentode with 13watt plate diss. as compared to 6BQ5's 12watts, they are simmilar except for pinouts. Last time i checked, the GE brands are still available at Pacific electronics for 250 a piece...
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oweidah,
a push-pull 6AQ5 is a good idea, i built my first push-pull amp in 1968 using tv vertical output tubes, the 6EM5, simmilar to that of a 6973, you may also try 6GK6 a pentode with 13watt plate diss. as compared to 6BQ5's 12watts, they are simmilar except for pinouts. Last time i checked, the GE brands are still available at Pacific electronics for 250 a piece...
tonyt,
tnx for the suggestion. actually tinkered with the idea when mang ben told me that instead of looking for common commercial tubes to use in a (pa-)diy project there are plenty of other lesser known tube types that can be used. among them is the 6aq5 (vice 6bq5), 829b, etc which he has.
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samut saring tanong...
Mayron pa bang triode na can output equal or more power than the 300b?
Ang 1626 of the famed darling amps ba puedeng gawing preamp?
May linestage/preamp schema ba for 10-y/01-a na nasa public domain (ala linux)?
Thanks
m
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samut saring tanong...
Ang 1626 of the famed darling amps ba puedeng gawing preamp?
Thanks
m
congrats! mukhang may new darling ka ah! ;D
eto ba?
http://www.audiohobbyist.com/projects/1626.htm
(http://www.audiohobbyist.com/images/ew_darling.jpg)
(http://www.audiohobbyist.com/images/1626sch.jpg)
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samut saring tanong...
Mayron pa bang triode na can output equal or more power than the 300b?
Ang 1626 of the famed darling amps ba puedeng gawing preamp?
May linestage/preamp schema ba for 10-y/01-a na nasa public domain (ala linux)?
Thanks
m
300b is more powerful that the 1626, besides, the former is a DHT while the latter is not. yes pwedeng gawing preamp yan...
stand-tuned we will dissect triode common cathode circuits and their use as preamps...
it does not take a genius to work on tubes... ;D in my days, a high-school student of about age 17 works on a 5 tube ac/dc reciever as a first project....compared to a triode preamp, that reciever is more complicated... ;D
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The original "Darling" was designed by Bob Danielak, and uses 8532 high tranconductance single triodes to drive the 1626 to put out a measly, but glorious 0.75watt.
Markmlists, I have a 01-A preamp, pure DHT. I also have a 10Y/VT25 preamp, again pure DHT. They're going to a nice chassis I recently salvaged.
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Thanks Sirs Oweidah, Tony and Arnoldc.
Sir Oweidah, di kaya ng speakers ko yang darling as an amp (low sens) hehe but ang ganda nung pinost mo.
Thanks for the work you put in for all interested Sir Tony.
Sir Arnold, nakita ko sa ws. Congratulations!
Mukang mahirap gawin (or ipa commission to do) since other members mentioned that dht's pose unique design or implementation issues (though Im not sure what or why). Also, the scarcity of schemas on the net pertaing to dht preamps or linestages are indicative na either mahirap nga ata gawin or copyrighted designs or only a few very skilled diyers (like yourself) attempt to do them. BTW, mas maganda ba tunog nung 01-1 vs the 10y since you have both?
Thanks!
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Copyrighted? I don't think they can copyright something that exists already. I will post my 01-A linestage brew sa Wiredstate.
Between 01-A and 10Y, hmmm, depende sa iyong mood. At this time I would say the 01-A has a slight edge on transparency vs. the 10Y. I like them both, maybe because of the Thoriated Tungsten and I'm trying to make my preamp switchable kasi ayaw ko ng dalawang chassis, pero may mga challenges pa.
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Thanks! I look forward to it.
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> as for me, i thank God for spin, mang ben & gerry.
where are they located? contact numbers please...
> Yung 6bq5 meron sa southern, TRIGON ang brand
where is southern located?
tia.. more power :)
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Do I need to bias my power tubes every time I change them? Is there such a self biasing amp?
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Do I need to bias my power tubes every time I change them? Is there such a self biasing amp?
Yes and yes.
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Yes and yes
On biasing, I noticed AMX amps have RCA jacks on the tube platform itself. You connect the voltmeter there I suppose? Is it hard to bias tubes? Any idea on what meter to purchase and how much?
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On biasing, I noticed AMX amps have RCA jacks on the tube platform itself. You connect the voltmeter there I suppose? Is it hard to bias tubes? Any idea on what meter to purchase and how much?
I am using a digital multimeter (Fluke 111, sells for around 10K).
Am not familiar with the rca jacks on the AMX, but on other amps, there is a probe socket on top of the amp for the + and - probes, and a trimmer pot to adjust the bias.
On some other amps, you have to remove the bottom plate, put the amp on its side and do the bias. On these amps, you are better off taking it to a technician to have it biased.
It is quite easy to bias tubes with the bias adjustment on top of the amp. On my audiospace, I just needed to turn the volume control to 0, remove the input (CD or other sources) and turn the trimmers so that my multimeter reads 0.3VDC.
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can anybody share a DIY baising for amx kt88 set
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On biasing, I noticed AMX amps have RCA jacks on the tube platform itself. You connect the voltmeter there I suppose? Is it hard to bias tubes? Any idea on what meter to purchase and how much?
RCA jacks? :D :D :D There are more appropriate test connectors for that. Even the lowly Dynaco does not use RCA jacks.
I was able to buy a Radio Shack branded Tenma for 4K. It has super features- the normal AC,DC volts/amps, resistance, diode, continuity, and has capacitance, frequency, and temperature (probe included). It's also True RMS meter, with manual (important) and auto-range functions, plus sample/hold. Sayang sarado na mga Radio Shack...
If you have the moolah and want a reputable one, the Fluke 87 will be more than enough. This is an investment when one goes the DIY route.
But for biasing lang, there are cheap digital multimeters at True Value and Ace Hardware, tig P500 lang. Pwedeng pang test ng battery, he he he. Or ng bias ;D
@tedgat, why do you ask that? Isn't the bias range part of the AMX manual? It should be!
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I'm planning to have a stock of tubes ?I just want to know if i will decide to repace,will it be a plug and play ?that's why im asking. thanks
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precisely. amx should come with a manual that specifies the bias range. do you know if it's fixed bias or cathode bias? (may adjustment ba o wala)
kung may adjustment, basahin mo ang manual and look for the recommended bias voltage.
kung walang adjustment, then it's cathode biased and no need for adjustment.
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Please help ,what could be the problem of my amx amp ?it has a humming sound on the left channel?
Anything that i should check first before send it for servicing?
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switch power tubes on the left side with those on the right, if hum is still there - try switching driver tubes, just to rule out if the tubes are source of hum
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Please help ,what could be the problem of my amx amp ?it has a humming sound on the left channel?
Anything that i should check first before send it for servicing?
depending on how loud the humming is, you can try wriggling you iinterconnects, could be loose contact somewhere...
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ok will try ,medyo malaskas kasi.any other ?
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try mo muna yun advice ni Tony while the power is off. then patunugin mo pag meron pa hum left channel off ulit then try naman yun advice ni iceman na swap power tubes, pag lumipat sa right palit ka power tubes. pag hindi lumipat sa right yun hum, yun naman driver tubes ang swap mo. pag lumipat sa right yun hum palitan mo na yun driver tubes.
if any of those advised to you doesn't work to remove the hum, better bring it to amx or to a qualified technician.
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thanks sa advise i'll bring it to phasetron nalang ,nothing happens
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thanks sa advise i'll bring it to phasetron nalang ,nothing happens
Wala na yata ang Phasetron sa Makati.
You can go direct to their factory outlet, Kinetic Audio Technologies, 123 Mangosteen Road FTI Complex Taguig City, MM Tels 8380590, 8384301 local 3552 nad 3554
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thanks sa advise i'll bring it to phasetron nalang ,nothing happens
sad to hear that, better to bring it in for checkup.
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hi i saw several amx pre amp devices for sale. i was hoping to get one kaso here is my question
can i connect this tube pre amp to my regular home theater amp or do i need to get a seperate amp for this ?
cd player/ipod - amx pre amp - yamaha ax620 ?
would this enhance my music listening experience ?
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pwede yata pag may pre-in yung receiver mo. a friend ko yun ginawa nya sa set-up sa bahay
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just get an integrated tube amp. amx also has these types of amp and sells at a reasonable price. di mo na kakailanganin gamitin yung receiver mo unlike a pre-amp, para separate ang audio and HT amp mo. ;)
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Question, ano advantage ng tubes over normal stereo receivers? Mas lainis ang labas ng sound?
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some say that it sounds warm. i am no expert but for me (on personal experience) id say more detailed, specially on the mids. mas rinig mo ang pluck and strum ng guitars at tining ng piano keys. you will clearly notice the difference, like night and day ;D it's like opening up the characteristics of your speakers, my bookshelf even became boomy with the 35wpc integrated tube amp. but id also say that it depends on the source you will be using, the type of speakers that you'll be driving and the music that you'll listen to. as everything still has to be appropriate and proportioned for it to have a good and balanced match.
i also think that the tubes power are under rated (or avrs are over rated ;) )
i also tried using tubes on concert dvds but it did'nt sound good but the best sa cd/dvd audio or mp3 and vinyls.
once you go tube, you'll never go back. ;)
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would you know magkano selling ng tube amp ngyn na standalone ? also if pwede ko sya dikit sa current amp ko since may in naman sya would you recomment this ?
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1 unit : Sonatina EL84 15 watts per ch. with JJ tube
1 unit; Forte 6550 integrated amp 70 watts/ch
1 unit; KT90 SE Integrated 20 watts/ch
1 unit: Integra 6L6GC/EL34 with phono mag/tone controls
1 unit: 6L6GC Minima Integrated
1 pair: KT77 Monoblock !20 watts
1 unit: Pre-amp 12AU7 line stage only, tube rectified
1 unit: Pre-amp Vintage 6L5 Triode line stage
2 units: Ipod Dock with JJ ECC88, remote Volume Control and track selector
Sold last week 1- Sonatina EL84 , 1 - AMX forte KT88 with remote
Meron pang iba hindi ko kasi memorized, sorry. For price pls call 7103432 or 6874805, thanks
call AMX for price list...i think the 20% off on all on-stock are still on going. they have good price range less 20% off ;D
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would you know magkano selling ng tube amp ngyn na standalone ? also if pwede ko sya dikit sa current amp ko since may in naman sya would you recomment this ?
if i understand, stand alone meaning (tube amp) this will be your power amp and your avr will be your pre-amp.
i think you need a tube pre-amp for a tube amp but a integrated tube amp can use a non-tube power amp.
better ask master jojod. to confirm ;)
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thank you all for your help
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sir...
in general tubes will give a warmer and more 3 dimensional holographic sound. Its airy characteristic will replicate the human voice as well as string instruments better.
of course there are ss that do sound like tubes but they are generally on the expensive side. There are also tubes that sound harsh and bright. Best way to know is to audition and compare them side by side as there is really no best system... but only systems that best suit your taste :)
happy gear hunting.
www.audioamplified.com
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hi i saw several amx pre amp devices for sale. i was hoping to get one kaso here is my question
can i connect this tube pre amp to my regular home theater amp or do i need to get a seperate amp for this ?
cd player/ipod - amx pre amp - yamaha ax620 ?
would this enhance my music listening experience ?
Better visit or call Kinetic aka "Phasetron". They are now on sale as mentioned above. Tel. no. is 710-4342.
;D
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would you have an idea how much an entry level integrated tube amp cost ? AMX brand ?
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guess is less than 20k...meron pa mas lower depende sa wattage...kasi they also quote per watt ;D also check out dared tube amps i think the vp-16 is less than 15k at 18wpc.
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if member ka din sa wired state check this out ;D http://wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17752&highlight=
cheapest pala is the dared mp-5 cute amp ;D
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thanks sir would u know where i can check out the dared tube amp ?
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sights and sounds shangri-la ;) PM mo e-reply/vic ;D
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thanks for the help.... tried calling the kinetic number kaso not in use
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try this other number 6874805 ;) saw this at amx thread.
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Question, ano advantage ng tubes over normal stereo receivers? Mas lainis ang labas ng sound?
Depends on the type of music that you are into... if you like vocals, then tube amp is the best equipment to use, warm, sweet, airy, detailed, etc... but if you prefer rock/alternative music... SS amps is still better than tube for these kind of music, imo ;)
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thanks for the help.... tried calling the kinetic number kaso not in use
Bro, try mo pala 710-3432.
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sir you can try Cayin too
www.audioamplified.com
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medyo mahal na masyado para sakin cayin :)
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i also tried using tubes on concert dvds but it did'nt sound good....
Am using a 1.5 watt per channel DIY EF86-EL84 amp (featured at the recent Alabang Audio show) driving my "Viech" (google "viech speakers") for DVD concerts and general DVD watching, and it is a lot better than my high-end Denon AVR!
For oschestral and rock concerts, am using my DIY SE KT88 and it rocks!
Synergy between components is the key to excellent sound. Tubed equipment or SS equipment will sound not as good if the components are not matched. ;)
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medyo mahal na masyado para sakin cayin :)
If you want a starter tube amp, Edrel Sison of this forum might be selling an EL84 amp based on the Zen circuit. PM him, he might offer a kit that you will assemble yourself or an assembled one. It is quite inexpensive, borrow his prototype and audition it.
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sir simon try calling mang jun a.k.a. simple. i believe he has a DARED MP5 being sold. I saw it in his sulit.com post
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Sir/s,
I am new here. Does anybody knows where we find/purchase vacuum tubes in Jeddah like 12AX7, 12AY7, 6418 or GE 6072. I am a fanatic of a high audio quality mic which can be easily obtain using vacuum tube. By the way I have a small home recording studio and some piece of pro equipments but still I am die hard of having gadgets that uses vacuum tube. Please let me know. Many thanks
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It all started last year when I look at some Cayin tube amps catalogs at Festival Mall out of curiosity, then had that interest of owning one - for the start I bought a hybrid AV200 amp from Raon which I brought to UAE, have ordered a Yaqin MC10L but had no chance to test it when it arrived in Phil because I already left the country. Last night I received my order of SET FU50 and paired with my RTi3. I have ordered few days ago for a customized SET 300B from AMX to be paired with my RB3. After less than 10 months I have accumulated four tube amps. I don't know what's next? -tweaking the first 3 perhaps.
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Mga master tulong lang po at konting clarification new pa lang po ako sa tube at gusto ko subukan mag assemble. Ang tanong ko po is, di po ba ang supply ng heater is 6.3v lang halos ang nakikita ko na mga schematic diagram is they are using 6.3 0 6.3 Volts sa secondary (naka ground ang zero) meron namang 3.15 0 3.15. di po ba if connect nyo ung 6.3+6.3 sa heater=12.6 V eh di ang labas over voltage ang supply sa heater. Ano po ba talaga ang tama (6.3 0 6.3 or 3.15 0 3.15).Salamat po sa mga sasagot.
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^12 volts yung 6.3-0-6.3 volts, yung 3.15 0 3.15volts naman 6 volts.....
depende sa tube type, kung 12AX7 pwede mo gamitin yung 12 or 6 volts depende sa wiring mo yan...
kung 6BQ5 naman, 6volts ang pwede mong gamitin...
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mga sir ask lang ano po ba ang magandang upgrade na tube for yaqin cd2 tube buffer yung mapapansin mo talaga yung diff aside from the stock tube and saan po makakabili.TIA
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Mga tube masters ;)
Ano po bang ibig sabihin ng Ultralinear saka Triode operation option sa tube amps?
Thanks :)
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Mga tube masters ;)
Ano po bang ibig sabihin ng Ultralinear saka Triode operation option sa tube amps?
Thanks :)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/55231-difference-bewteen-ultralinear-triode-mode.html
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mga sir ask lang ano po ba ang magandang upgrade na tube for yaqin cd2 tube buffer yung mapapansin mo talaga yung diff aside from the stock tube and saan po makakabili.TIA
try mo alisin yung tubes, tutunog pa rin yan...
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Hello po mga Sir. May tanong po ako, meron po kasi kaming old phono stereo system local lang ata iyon. Ang brand name niya ay "RADIOWEALTH" if I'm not mistaken, my father bought it during the mid 80s siguro. I believe it runs by tubes kasi I remember there is light inside the system and you can see it glowing at the back ventilating cover made of plywood i guess. It has Turntable, AM/FM tuner and a couple of AUX (RCA) connections.
Ang question ko po is,
1. pede ko pa kaya bunutin yung main unit (receiver/amp) from that huge box so I can use and place it on top of a table something?
2. can I use it as an Amplifier since it has two AUX connections?
Wala po akong picture or I can't take pictures of it, nasa abroad po kasi ako. Naalala ko lang kasi yung stereo nang Tatay ko na palagi nyang pinatutugtugan nang "Marching Bands", "Sinatra", "Presley" and "Nat King Cole".... Hanep sounds nang Tatay ko! ;D
I hope someone can answer my questions!
Thanks! Have A Nice Day All!
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1. yes
2. yes
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1. yes
2. yes
Thanks you sir! ;)
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Thanks you sir! ;)
Make sure if its working before you test it. Most likely capacitors are already dead....Send this to a good tube technician to test it.
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yes, you can also wire up a 100watt incandescent lamp in series with the power line to the unit....this serves 2 prupose, first is to limit turn on surges, and second to serve as a safety device in case there is something wrong with your unit......make sure na hindi pinamahyan ng mga mababait yan at hindi kinagat-kagat ang mga kawad sa loob....these thind happen to old sets....
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noob question :
1. is it advisable to connect a tube buffer to a hi end cdp and to an entry level amp/pre amp? would it elevate the sq of the set-up or magiging palamuti lang sya?
2.which is better to connect the buffer? cdp >> buffer>>>pre amp>>>poweramp OR cdp>>>preamp>>> tube buffer>>> power amp.
any inputs will be appreciated. thanks.
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1. depends, i use buffers on dvd players to playback stereo, YMMV...
2. a buffer has no gain so you can connect it any which way you like, try both and select the connection that sounds music to your ears...;D
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1. depends, i use buffers on dvd players to playback stereo, YMMV...
2. a buffer has no gain so you can connect it any which way you like, try both and select the connection that sounds music to your ears...;D
thanks sir tony!
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good day mga sir, medyo bago lang po sa tube amplifier, using a heathkit w4am amp pwede ko bang palitan etong original 5881 tube to kt66? many thanks po
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hi guys,
this is a diy hp tube amp i got from a diyer from another forum:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/fpdguzman/krake_zps4f958a5a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fpdguzman/media/krake_zps4f958a5a.jpg.html)
questions:
1. anong family of tubes po ang gamit dito sa amp ko? may nabibili bang tubes like these locally?
2. what other mods can i do to improve its sound besides tube rolling?
3. who here in manila can do mods for this?
4. can i install rca ports so i can use this as a pre amp for my ss amp?
Thanks. :)
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Mga tube gurus. Tanong lang po ako about tube amps for headphones. Ano po kaya maganda for headphones at kung saan po makakabili. Salamat po and more power