PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Sources => Audio Only Sources => Topic started by: scofield on Dec 19, 2005 at 11:11 AM
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Hi,
Tanong ko lang po, pag dating sa audio, mas malakas ba = mas maganda?
meron kse ako cdp with specs (Playback Sampling Frequency : 44.1kHz, D/A Conversion :Multi-Level Delta-Sigma, HDCD® Processing : Burr Brown PCM1732, Oversampling : 8 Times (Digital Filter)) pansin ko mas malakas pa tumunog yung dvd player ko (dv-585k).
parang mas warm yung cdp tapos yung dvd player naman too bright. maari ba yung mas malkas na naririnig ko sa dvd player ko ay noise lamang? may kinalaman ba yung oversampling dito?
same cd, speaker, connection, avr, volume level mas malakas talaga yung dvd player ko. yung nga lang medyo sabog yung base.
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Hindi ibig sabihin malakas mas maganda. Sa DVD at CD player mahirap sabihin kung alin ang mas maganda. Base sa experience ko:
1. Mas malaki posibilidad na iyung CD player mas maganda pang audio
2. Ang DVD player ay dine sign pang movies at hindi gaano importante iyung accuracy ng audio signal. Kahit kuha niya 80 - 90% ok na hindi ba? Tutal mas mahalaga iyung video.
May ilang DVD player ako na ring nabuksan at naobserbahan ko na iyung mga piyesa ay ordinaryo lamang. Hindi tulad nung mga CD player. kahit paano dun sa mga critical na sirketo ginamitan siya ng mamahaling piyesa.
Iyung mga DVD player na nag sisilabasan ngayon halos pare parehas iyung design ng sirketo nila. Halos iilang IC na lang nasa loob at mga ito'y multi function na hindi tulad mga nakaraang taon. Panay Mediatek na lang nakikita ko.
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Meron akong nabiling Nad T562 DVD player, Ginagamit ko sya pang audio dahil HCDC sya at video. So far satisfy naman ako sa tunog. Nag karoon din ako ng Nad 521bee cd player at na upgrade ko na yun op amp ng ad8066. Tapos Compare ko yun tunog halos din naman nagkalayo kaya binenta ko na lang yun cd player, I'm using tono pre amp dalawa input kaya madaling magselect hook up with flying mole amp. Nun binuksan ko yun 521bee wala naman masyadong IC konti lang ang pyesa. pero yun DVD maraming IC at sealed pa yun lagyan ng dvd player. Heto ang picture..
(http://i.pbase.com/g3/51/630351/2/54739933.P1020073.jpg)
(http://i.pbase.com/g3/51/630351/2/54739931.P1020071.jpg)
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Sir Kikoman,
Paki check naman po iyung label nung mga malalaking IC na gamit ng DVD player mo. Mediatek ba? Nga pala iyung board na nasa kaliwa, power supply board iyun. Tapos normally may separate control para sa CD transport. Hindi ko sure kung iyung board eh iyung nasa kaliwa. Iyung nasa taas naman baka iyun yung mga DAC, op-amp etc.
Iyung sound naman sa CD player at DVD player di naman masyadong nagkakalayo. Ang deperensya lang eh iyung mga piyesa na gamit ay mamahalin. Tapos mas maganda CD transport and casing. Sa sound baka less than 5% ang diperensya. Iyung siguro dahilan kung bakit mga malalaking kumpanya ayaw na gumawa ng high end.
Rascal101
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Between most respectable well-made brands, using the digital out will not yield appreciable audible differences between a DVD and a CD player. But using the analog output, because each has after-DAC preamps or op amps, there's a higher chance that audible sonic differences can exist.
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Sir Rascal,
Ang ginamit nyang IC Mediamatics, ewan kung pareho lang sya ba ng mediatek?
Tama ka left side power supply at upper rigth side DAC at op amps.
(http://i.pbase.com/g3/51/630351/2/54964407.opamps.jpg)
At kung makikita mo mayroon sya pasadyang IC Nad. Ito kaya yun DAC?
Separate sila di katulad ng 521bee isang buong board lang.
Pero iba parin yun dedicated na cd player lang, Kapos sa budget kaya ok yun 2 in 1.
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Naku! Eto na nga siguro iyung DAC niya. Sa taas kasi may 8 pins na IC (hinila ko dual op-amp) tapos sinundan ng 2 e-cap (DC blocking capacitors) then small signal na transistor (muting transistor). Puwedeng puwedeng mag mod. :)
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Tama ka dyan, Burr-Brown (OPA 2604) op-amps
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palit e-cap then op amp rolling ... ;D
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Sir,
baka meron kang source, na murang pyesa baka mangati ang kamay ko. PM mo ako..
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Tama ka dyan, Burr-Brown (OPA 2604) op-amps
Try mo AD8066 but check mo muna voltage.
Sandali lang? wala pa one month ito diba? hahaha "WARRANTY VOID"
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Sir,
baka meron kang source, na murang pyesa baka mangati ang kamay ko. PM mo ako..
Mura as in Raon Parts? akala ko uupgrade mo? :) Kidding aside PM mo 'yung mga parts na uupgrade mo especially capacitors in all Audio paths trace mo sila. I assume 'yung mga thru hole lang pwede upgrade.
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Iyung dalawang DC blocking capacitors lang upgrade. Tapos kailangan malinis trabaho para hindi mahalata kung may service warranty pa. Tapos parallel ka ng 4.7uF sa e-cap (kung may space ka pa) na polyprelene or polysterene cap. Meron din ito sa Eleshop. Laking diperensya based on my experience. Mas malaki pa ito kesa op-amp rolling, palit ng bulk e-caps at paggamit ng soft recovery diodes.
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Od
Try mo AD8066 but check mo muna voltage.
Sandali lang? wala pa one month ito diba? hahaha "WARRANTY VOID"
Pre basta malinis kang magtrabaho at wala naman warranty seal. Warranty pa rin yun.
Sir Rascal101,
Thanks..I'm learning!!!!
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Mga sirs, Ask ko lang which has a better audio output Dvd or CDP? Right know im using a pioneer dvd player 535k which has a 24 bit DAC / 96khz. Kasi one of my friend told me that cd player is good rather than DVD player.
Thanks sirs for your reply!
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it would depend on the specific model, what if Pioneer DVD player vs a generic CD player?
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When comparing a CD or DVD player, you need to take note of the technology used eg higher resolution, higher sampling rate. Obviously when you have higher resolution - > # bits and higher sampling rate - > 44KHz you would have better performance. However, such may not be the case when you subject these products to subjective listening. Some say CD and some say DVD. It all depends - it all depends on how these technologies are implemented in a product. Not all companies employ good design engineers and certainly product performance is a function of company project budget and intended audience.
My take on this is, audition a CD and a DVD and depending on your budget, take your pick. If the CD sounds good to you, go for it. Same with the DVD.
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depends on the DAC and other audio components...
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If you have this DVD player (DENON - DVD-5910CI ) I can say DVD :D
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3127.asp
Actually it depend on the player. My Yamaha DVD player has DAC of 24/192 on analog out for PCM signal. However, my CD player HDCD capable is better than it with only 24/96 DAC. Though my DVD player has lots of details, my CD player have wider soudstage, mor laidback, more thump on the lower frequency, more dynamic and mids that really sing.
Generally for Top of the line CD player VS Top of the line DVD player or lets say on the same price range, i can say CD player!
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as long as you make comparisons with same level/priced products (no audiophile grades) then a dedicated cd player, transport/DAC will almost certainly sound better... :) :) :)
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saan nakakabili ng soft/fast recovery diode?
Iyung dalawang DC blocking capacitors lang upgrade. Tapos kailangan malinis trabaho para hindi mahalata kung may service warranty pa. Tapos parallel ka ng 4.7uF sa e-cap (kung may space ka pa) na polyprelene or polysterene cap. Meron din ito sa Eleshop. Laking diperensya based on my experience. Mas malaki pa ito kesa op-amp rolling, palit ng bulk e-caps at paggamit ng soft recovery diodes.
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Ano average current o reverse voltage kailangan mo? Typically kung CDP ang mga values ay 1A, 300V diode. Ang reverse recovery should be below 100ns. Check mo sa General Semiconductor, Taiwan Semiconductor, Motorola, Vishay o National Semiconductor iyung part number. Afterward, check mo iyung applicable na diode sa Alexan o Deeco or any electronic shop sa Raon.
Suggest ko BYV26B or BYV26C - daming vendors nito.
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For me, I bought an external DAC and hook it up with my DVD. Malaki difference without the external DAC.
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kelangan ko 1A, 1000V.
Ano average current o reverse voltage kailangan mo? Typically kung CDP ang mga values ay 1A, 300V diode. Ang reverse recovery should be below 100ns. Check mo sa General Semiconductor, Taiwan Semiconductor, Motorola, Vishay o National Semiconductor iyung part number. Afterward, check mo iyung applicable na diode sa Alexan o Deeco or any electronic shop sa Raon.
Suggest ko BYV26B or BYV26C - daming vendors nito.
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BYV26E
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locally available?
BYV26E
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Not sure, pls check with Alexan or Deeco. If not, try online - RS components or Farnell.
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bubuhayin ko lang tong thread na ito.
mas mlakas talaga tumunog yung dvd player ko, mas detalyado tumunog kesa sa cdp ko. yun nga lang pag dating sa mga low frequency yumayanig na yung dingding namin unlike sa cdp ko parang kontrolado niya ang mga low frequencies.
question lang po di kase ako mkapaniwala sa naririnig ko eh.
pwede ninyo bang i-explain or i-describe yung "better sound stage"?
"better imaging"
warm, bright, dynamics
paki share na rin ang mga sariling observations ninyo sa characteristic ng mga sumusunod na equipments.
rotels entry level amps are? warm or bright?
harman kardon cd players are? warm or bright?
dali concept 2 are? warm or bright?
ganito po kasi ang ginawa ko:
set up 1:
amp: rotel ra-04
cdp: harman kardon hd755
speaker: dali concept 2
speaker wire: dali cables
interconnect: monster cable (yung pinaka mura)
set up 2:
amp: rotel ra-04
cdp: philips karaoke dvd player
speaker: dali concept 2
speaker wire: dali cables
interconnect: ordinary rca cable
observation using ordinary cd and hdcd same volume level, same tracks,same room:
set up 1: very warm sounding. sometimes parang laid back ang vocals. parang kulang sa sipa, can handle the bass very good,
set up 2:bright, sobrang detalyado, lahat malakas, pati low frequency malakas up to the point yamayanig na yung dingding namin, parang nangagaling yung sound sa lahat ng sulok ng room, lutang ang boses actually lutang lahat. forward sounding. pag high talagang high pag low may distortion (kung distortion nga na maituturing yung pag yaning ng dingding)
result: Very confused listener na parang gusto mag upgrade ng cdp.
ang gusto ko sa set up 1 ay yung pag handle niya ng low frequency, warmness. gusto ko naman sa set up 2 yung lutang ang boses at detalye.
salamat
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Somebody told me that the old old USA version ng Playstation 1 is a very good CDP. So kung meron kayong neighbor or relatives na mayroong PS1 na nakatambak lang, try ninyong bilhin in a a cheap price. Nothing to lose. XBox 360 is also a very good CDP just use a very good interconnect.
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i saw stocks of phillips dvd player @ less than P3k at anson, next time around no more stock.
It say at the box "Great audio performance-24bit 192khz DAC delivers high quality audio".
I gonna buy one.
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i saw stocks of phillips dvd player @ less than P3k at anson, next time around no more stock.
It say at the box "Great audio performance-24bit 192khz DAC delivers high quality audio".
I gonna buy one.
safer to get the 5500S as per the audio performance, display units are on sale now at 4.6K. problem with the one at SM North was that it had trouble reading one of my CD-R's and there was a little wear on the chassis, although they said they can order but I found a 1-bit surplus CD player through this forum, which by the way sounds better than my Pioneer with a 24bit/192khz dac. maybe the warehouse still has a few stocks.
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so whats the best dvd player that you can also use for audio? what bout the pioneer dv-696av-s? (hdmi na din)