Topic: PS3 supports 3D Blu-Ray!

[Verbl Kint]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=229945

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/213300/3d-blu-ray-tech-confirmed-for-ps3/

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/6308.html

http://www.itproportal.com/portal/news/article/2009/12/17/sony-ps3-be-forward-compatible-3d-blu-ray-discs/


The PS3 has just become more future-proof!  

Good news for PS3 owners today with word from the Blu-ray Disc Association confirming that Sony's console is fully set up and ready to play the first generation of 3-D Blu-ray discs.

While the BDA press release makes specific mention of the PS3 as a potential 3D gaming platform, representatives told reporters via phone that it is up to Sony to release a firmware update that makes the system 3D-compatible.

According to CVG, the Blu-Ray Disc Association has confirmed that as far as 3D is concerned, the PlayStation 3 is ready to go. It's already capable of playing two full 1080p streams - one per eye - and this should allow the PS3 to be the lead Blu-Ray platform for 3D viewing, be it games or movies.

[cHess]

Nice! How much will 3d bluray cost?

[pchin]

Nice! How much will 3d bluray cost?

No one can answer that now as the news is just released so we'll have to wait till next year & see. Hopefully it won't be too expensive, even if higher in the range close to the regular BD.

[pao625™]

great news! hopefully, each 3D blu-ray comes with the 3D glasses.

[pchin]

It says "the new format will play on all current and future 3D displays..." does this mean the current LCD/plasma has no problem or is there a different 3D display out there?

[av_phile1]

They didn't say current LCD/Plasma TVs.  When they say "current 3D displays" they must mean those with 120hz frame rates.  3D is essentially 2 BD films at the same time - one for each eye.  You need high frame rates for that.  Your ordinary LCD/Plasma with 60hz won't hack it. 

[ntlopez]

great news! hopefully, each 3D blu-ray comes with the 3D glasses.

"Journey To The Center of The Earth"  has a 3D blu-ray version which includes i think 4 3D cardboard glasses.

[av_phile1]

This was released in 2008 and uses the old anaglyh technology with the red and blue cardboard eyeglasses.  Don't confuse this with the new stereoscopic 3D out next year.  .

[dukesociety]

they recently release 3d lcd tvs, samsung and sony i think

[pchin]

They didn't say current LCD/Plasma TVs.  When they say "current 3D displays" they must mean those with 120hz frame rates.  3D is essentially 2 BD films at the same time - one for each eye.  You need high frame rates for that.  Your ordinary LCD/Plasma with 60hz won't hack it.  

They also didn't say those LCD/Plasma with 120hz is considered "3D display"....just kidding Alex  

From the JVC's first 3D LCD specs, the display need a special 3D display circular polarizing technology (Xpol® glass filter).  http://www.myvtp.com/JVC_LCD_3D.aspx

Press Release: http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=723&pageID=1

As for Sony, it will debut its 3D LCD sets in 2010.
http://www.oled-display.info/sony-introduce-3d-hdtv-displays-in-2010

In order to enjoy 3D experience, we do need to get new hardware....geez my friend is going to be very piss cos he just bought a big 1080p LCD.   Those who have been patient enough to wait & planning to get their Full HD LCD in the near future, it's nice knowing the road ahead looks very promising. Phew...good thing I manage to held back my LCD purchase this year.

[av_phile1]

They also didn't say those LCD/Plasma with 120hz is considered "3D display"....just kidding Alex  

From the JVC's first 3D LCD specs, the display need a special 3D display circular polarizing technology (Xpol® glass filter).  http://www.myvtp.com/JVC_LCD_3D.aspx

Press Release: http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=723&pageID=1

As for Sony, it will debut its 3D LCD sets in 2010.
http://www.oled-display.info/sony-introduce-3d-hdtv-displays-in-2010

In order to enjoy 3D experience, we do need to get new hardware....geez my friend is going to be very piss cos he just bought a big 1080p LCD.   Those who have been patient enough to wait & planning to get their Full HD LCD in the near future, it's nice knowing the road ahead looks very promising. Phew...good thing I manage to held back my LCD purchase this year.

He he, that's ok, Paul.  The article didn't say it but you can deduce, current 3D displays can only mean those with 120hz frame rates.

http://hdgear.highdefdigest.com/news/show/3D/Industry_Trends/Michael_S._Palmer/Blu-con/3D_Blu-ray_Coming_Next_Year/3752

Wait, so none of my current equipment will play 3D?

Correct. The BDA wants you to know that your current devices aren’t going to be obsolete (which is why they built in the backwards compatibility onto the discs themselves), this is just an added layer for those who want it. Meaning, 3D at home requires the purchase of a 3D Blu-ray player as well as a 3D Blu-ray compatible TV and 3D glasses (which will be handled by the TV manufacturers).

So how does it look (a.k.a. is it worth it to wear silly glasses)?

As a fan of all things high def and a rampant early adopter. Ohhhhh yeah! Panasonic had a slick demo at Blu-Con 2.0 displaying 1080p to each eye, 120 frames-per-second. They’re planning to have their 3D devices available as a bundle (player, plasma TV, and glasses) when the technology hits the big box stores next year.


And the article you quoted on the circular polarizing filter glass is about the eyeglasses, not something you can just attach on the display like a filter glass panel.  

Primary Features of JVC's GD-463D10:

3. The Xpol polarizing filter method offers a more comfortable and stable 3D viewing experience. Left-eye and right-eye information is constantly displayed, so there is no need to use strobing glasses that switch between left/right images. The GD-463D10 includes two pairs of battery-free, light polarizing glasses.[/u]

That's the eyewear.

And yes, I'm also glad to have postponed my purchase of a 42" LCD for the nth time.  Another cycle of waiting is starting.  I won't buy until those 3D 120hz 42-inch LCDs come down in price.  In the meantime I can content myself watching HD on my 1080p Philips 22-incher used in my HTPC with a cable TV card for vewing low quality SD cable on a window in one corner of the monitor.    I'm only 1.5ft away viewing it anyway.  

[pchin]

Wait, so none of my current equipment will play 3D?

Correct. The BDA wants you to know that your current devices aren’t going to be obsolete (which is why they built in the backwards compatibility onto the discs themselves), this is just an added layer for those who want it. Meaning, 3D at home requires the purchase of a 3D Blu-ray player as well as a 3D Blu-ray compatible TV and 3D glasses (which will be handled by the TV manufacturers).

Phew...glad to know at least my PS3 will support 3D Blu. Strike one! Looks like the biggest hindrance is the 3D HD display. Yikes...the JVC's 3D LCD announced list price is $9,153 (a whopping P435k)!

And the article you quoted on the circular polarizing filter glass is about the eyeglasses, not something you can just attach on the display like a filter glass panel.  

Primary Features of JVC's GD-463D10:

3. The Xpol polarizing filter method offers a more comfortable and stable 3D viewing experience. Left-eye and right-eye information is constantly displayed, so there is no need to use strobing glasses that switch between left/right images. The GD-463D10 includes two pairs of battery-free, light polarizing glasses.[/u]

That's the eyewear.

There are two matters here actually. One about the display & the other about the eyewear.

"The GD-463D10 provides flicker-free 3D images by adopting the Xpol ® polarizing filter method and battery-free passive circular polarizing filter glasses. JVC's unique 3D decoder translates images into the optimal Xpol display format wit subtle gradations and shades of color. "

This mean the LCD employ the Xpol polarizing filter technology for the display (built-in). As for the eyewear, it's the polarized glasses (passive circular polarizing filter glasses).

In the specs it also indicates:
-1920x 1080 LCD panel with Xpol® glass filter
-Requires inexpensive (passive) polarized glasses to watch 3D content  

And yes, I'm also glad to have postponed my purchase of a 42" LCD for the nth time.  Another cycle of waiting is starting.  I won't buy until those 3D 120hz 42-inch LCDs come down in price.  In the meantime I can content myself watching HD on my 1080p Philips 22-incher used in my HTPC with a cable TV card for vewing low quality SD cable on a window in one corner of the monitor.    I'm only 1.5ft away viewing it anyway.  

Hehe smart move bro. At least you're still better than me i.e. able to enjoy 1080p while I have to content with 720p only. Agree! It looks like both of us are gona have a very long wait until our hairs turn grey pa for the price to come down...

[av_phile1]

Ah ok, but it's not some 3rd party filter glass you can just clip-on to existing panels and you get 3D capability.  No problem.  At their prices, they can keep them.

I'm encouraged by the fact that some 32-inch 1080p 120hz LCD are below 30T.  I am just not too confident about the PS3.  As it is, you get all sorts of heat problems with just one 1080p BD material playing.  Imagine if you now have two 1080p BD materials playing, one for each eye. That would max out its CPU engine.  While a firmware update can make current PS3s play 3D, I am intrigued by Sony saying they're coming out with new 3D enabled PS3 players.  I suspect they'll be using a more powerful CPU on the new batch of PS3s while letting current PS3 users settle with an upgrade that later will cause their PS3s to die a natural death by overworking the current CPUs. 

[pchin]

Yes the heat could be an issue esp the old version of PS3 (aka fat PS3) tho I think the PS3 slim has better improvements over the fat one. Will be interesting to see how the current two PS3 will perform in actual condition. At a corner of my heart, I do hope my fat PS3 CPU will give up one day & conk out so I have reason to get a new one. 

Me too, will see what SONY has in store on the new 3D enabled PS3.

[av_phile1]

Yup, I wonder who in PinoyDVD will be the first to have a 3D BD player.  Perhaps someone can start a thread on it.   

[bachwitz]

Yes the heat could be an issue esp the old version of PS3 (aka fat PS3) tho I think the PS3 slim has better improvements over the fat one. Will be interesting to see how the current two PS3 will perform in actual condition. At a corner of my heart, I do hope my fat PS3 CPU will give up one day & conk out so I have reason to get a new one.  

Me too, will see what SONY has in store on the new 3D enabled PS3.

Hope I have pockets as deep as yours. J/K Paul.  

A little bit OT. whats the difference between Digital 3D and IMAX 3D movies? Are they visually almost the same, with IMAX just having a bigger screen?

[pchin]

Hope I have pockets as deep as yours. J/K Paul. 

Wishful thinking lang...

[av_phile1]

A little bit OT. whats the difference between Digital 3D and IMAX 3D movies? Are they visually almost the same, with IMAX just having a bigger screen?

Apart from screen size, there's a bit of difference, read here

http://3dvision-blog.com/what-to-choose-imax-3d-versus-reald-versus-dolby-3d-for-3d-movies/

[bachwitz]

Apart from screen size, there's a bit of difference, read here

http://3dvision-blog.com/what-to-choose-imax-3d-versus-reald-versus-dolby-3d-for-3d-movies/

Thanks sir AV!

Next question is which one is being used here? specifically the one in Gbelt3. I'm a bit confused coz I think I read there it says 'Avatar in Digital 3D'.  

I intentionally did not watch Avatar in Gbelt3 after the poor reviews of UP!. According to our fellow members there is no difference from a normal cinema.

[pchin]

HDMI 1.3 Will Support 3D After All

Fans of 3D movies can rest easy. You probably won’t need to upgrade your Blu-ray player, and you almost certainly won’t need to pick up new cables.

Remember back when the 3D specification for Blu-ray was announced and somehow the Playstation 3 made the list of compatible devices? It was said that a firmware update would make the popular Blu-ray playing game console compatible, and that’s true. It’s not just the PS3 though, that update will also apply to any BD-Live capable Blu-ray player.

Full article
Highdef

[cHess]

wow, pang mayaman talaga ito.

[lee1009]

Yeah, PS3 did. I actually purchased My Bloody Valentine 3D Blu Ray, which comes with 4 3D glasses. Sulit talaga at ang sarap manood kapag 3D. 

[av_phile1]

For you to play 3D at home, you need HDMI 1.4.

Even if your LCD/Plasma has 120hz frame rate capability, if it doesn't have HDMI 1.4, stereoscopic 3D in 1080p won't work.

Now how can Sony claim that its PS3 will support 3D with just a firmware update when it doesn't have HDMI 1.4? 

Sa bagay, they didn't say it can support 3D in 1080p naman.   It will have to donwgrade 1080p to 720p 3D so that the amount of data can be accomodated in HDMI 1.3a.

[pchin]

PS3 does support 3D but not in 1080p. Instead it supports up to 1080i only.

"Since HDMI 1.3 can’t handle two 1080p pictures at that speed, you’ll get two 1080i pictures. It’s not a huge downgrade when all is said and done. The real clincher comes with TV signals. Since cable boxes normally show a 1080i image, they’ll be stepped down to 540i to handle 3D."

HDMI 1.3 Will Support 3D After All


"...a 1080p frame-sequential 3-D image would have to be transmitted at 48 frames per second. This requires HDMI 1.4. HDMI 1.3 can't handle 1080p at that speed. However, HDMI 1.3 will support 3-D Blu-ray if the picture is reduced to 1080i output resolution instead. That's how Sony plans to upgrade the PS3 to support 3-D."

3-D, Receivers, and HDMI 1.4

**************

Interesting note from Joshua Zyber:

*Correction: A reader has reminded me that all versions of HDMI since v1.0 are capable of transmitting a 1080p signal at a rate up to 60 Hz. This begs the question why HDMI 1.3 wouldn't be capable of transmitting 1080p at 48 Hz.

I admit, that does poke a big hole in the above argument. As I mentioned earlier, some details about the new Blu-ray 3-D standard are still sketchy. I now wonder whether the plan is to transmit the signal at a higher rate, such as 120 Hz, even for content that originated at 24 fps. Another possibility is that HDMI 1.3 might be sufficient for 24 fps 3-D content (transmitted at 48 Hz), and that HDMI 1.4 will only be necessary for 60 Hz 3-D content (like video games) that will be transmitted at 120 Hz. It will probably be a few months before all of these questions are clarified. More to come.

[pchin]

Another limitation for HDMI 1.3:

HDMI 1.4 requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D formats at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24.High Speed HDMI 1.3 cables can support all HDMI 1.4 features except for the HDMI Ethernet Channel (which allows for a 100 Mb/s Ethernet connection between the two HDMI connected devices)  and Audio Return Channel.

HDMI Wikipedia

***********************

On a separate note, let's hope there is no need to change every single piece of our existing hardware that we own in order to enjoy 3D otherwise this will be a very very expensive overhaul....gosh, imagine...we have to get a new 3D BD player, a new 3D HDTV, a new HDMI 1.4 AV receiver and for some a new 3D sub-woofer front projector pa...

Another potential problem will rise when some of our gears are HDMI 1.3 & 1.4 mix together which may cause handshake problem! Hope the specs could be iron out soon...

Looks like I'll have to delay my 1080p purchase na.

[av_phile1]

Another potential problem will rise when some of our gears are HDMI 1.3 & 1.4 mix together which may cause handshake problem! Hope the specs could be iron out soon...

Looks like I'll have to delay my 1080p purchase na.

I read that the new Panasonic 3D LCD panel will have both HDMI 1,3 and 1,4.  There should be no confusion because they have different phyisical terminals.  An HDMI 1.3 cable termination will be oversied for a 1.4 socket which is a microHDMI. 

[av_phile1]

PS3 does support 3D but not in 1080p. Instead it supports up to 1080i only.

"Since HDMI 1.3 can’t handle two 1080p pictures at that speed, you’ll get two 1080i pictures. It’s not a huge downgrade when all is said and done. The real clincher comes with TV signals. Since cable boxes normally show a 1080i image, they’ll be stepped down to 540i to handle 3D."

HDMI 1.3 Will Support 3D After All


"...a 1080p frame-sequential 3-D image would have to be transmitted at 48 frames per second. This requires HDMI 1.4. HDMI 1.3 can't handle 1080p at that speed. However, HDMI 1.3 will support 3-D Blu-ray if the picture is reduced to 1080i output resolution instead. That's how Sony plans to upgrade the PS3 to support 3-D."

3-D, Receivers, and HDMI 1.4

This could be a problem - one that will render 3D viewing on the PS3 inferior to those with HDMI 1.4.  Nothing much can be done to increase the bandwidth of HDMI1.3.  No amount of firmware update can do that.

Based on what you descirbed above, it looks like the PS3 will be doing a work-around scheme to be able to send 3D data through a limited bandwidth.  The firmware update can send the date at 48hz or 120hz but it will need to the halve the video data for each eye.  That means you'd get only half of 1080p for each eye.  It looks like while it may be true that the PS3 can support 3D with a firmware update, it will do so at the expense of video quality.

[pchin]

This could be a problem - one that will render 3D viewing on the PS3 inferior to those with HDMI 1.4.  Nothing much can be done to increase the bandwidth of HDMI1.3.  No amount of firmware update can do that.

Based on what you descirbed above, it looks like the PS3 will be doing a work-around scheme to be able to send 3D data through a limited bandwidth.  The firmware update can send the date at 48hz or 120hz but it will need to the halve the video data for each eye.  That means you'd get only half of 1080p for each eye.  It looks like while it may be true that the PS3 can support 3D with a firmware update, it will do so at the expense of video quality.

Yes, I'm afraid the same thing would happen. But the article did mention that tru HDMI 1.3, it will get two 1080i pictures, meaning each eye will get 1080i. However, the final specs are still not clear but I do have a bad feeling at the end HDMI 1.4 will reign & we will be forced to replace our gears with all the "3D" compatible hardwares if we want to experience the full benefit of 3D movies in 1080p.

There is only so much the current PS3 HDMI 1.3 can do. At least it's good to hear SONY's 3D support announcement on the PS3 but they are probably pushing their lucks too far (using this as their marketing plot to sell as many old PS3 as possible before they release the new 3D PS3) ....but it does feel nice knowing the assurance that our current PS3 could do 3D (acting just as a temporary relief)

[av_phile1]

Yup, but it's distrubing to say the least.  Blu ray discs are encoded at 1080p.  Same with the the 3D variants.  Sony's implementation scheme to go around the HDMI 1.3 limitation is to pass 1080i signals instead, that means the PS3 will have to interlace the BR disc signals first which could introduce artifacts to the signal in the interlacing process on top of the artifacts produced when de-interlaced in the TV.

Secondly I am not aware that the TV can de-interlace two incoming 1080i streams at the same time, one for each eye.  The PS3 will have have to send two sets of interlaced signals one after another and the TV will be deinterlacing it one after the other. Wow.  imagine the lag it will result in, not to mention the artifacts on each eye.  the artifacts will also be seen in 3D.  

[pchin]

Wow.  imagine the lag it will result in, not to mention the artifacts on each eye.  the artifacts will also be seen in 3D. 

"3D Artifact" now we have a new term!