Topic: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"

[av_phile1]

I own it.  

It's no longer available in Astroplus/Astrovision?

Lucky you.  I heard it was released but I was probably too late to catch it when I got to the Podium Astro branch.  Never got to see one in our local Astro shop.

[deweyfinn]

Banning Hollywood films may have worked for South Korea.  But Pinoys are not Koreans.  Banning anything in this country has the exact opposite effect.

Just do the films you want and let them be shown and reap awards in the film festivals around the world.  That's how Korean films started to make waves and getting noticed by a wider audience with films like My Sassy Girl, Shiri, Samaritan Girl, Oldboy, etc.   It's really amazing the Koreans would be the first to take recognition in Cannes and other film festivals before Pinoys who've had a much richer movie making history.  They've even made horror movies that Hollywood copied, like A Tale of Two Sisters.  And to think Pinoy horror tales are supposed to be one of the most freightening in the world.

However, it always works in the Koreans' favour (or for that matter, the Thais') because they do not have to live with onerous censorship as well as the lack of genuine risk-taking among our producers and directors...

[Klaus Weasley]

However, it always works in the Koreans' favour (or for that matter, the Thais') because they do not have to live with onerous censorship as well as the lack of genuine risk-taking among our producers and directors...

Very true.

Old Boy, for example, had a very shocking plot twist that would NEVER fly here with mainstream producers. But it's become one of Korea's biggest international hits of the past decade. 

[av_phile1]

Uy, naging censorship issue na.  Then even if you limit or ban hollywood films, we'd still be crapped by the censors and prudish producers.  

I guess you nailed down one of the roots of our movie making ills.  Little or no risk-taking,.  It has nothing to do with limiting or banning hollywood influx.  We like it safe.  None too controversial, iconoclastic or daring. Sometimes you really need to be loud and daring to get noticed in this world.  

[Klaus Weasley]

None too controversial, iconoclastic or daring. Sometimes you really need to be loud and daring to get noticed in this world.  

In the MTRCB rulebook, it's quite explicit that it's perfectly legal for them to ban films that speak out against or criticize the government or religious institutions.

From the MTRCB website:

E.   NOT FOR PUBLIC EXHIBITION  (“X”) – X-rated movies are not suitable for public exhibition.

A movie shall be disapproved for public viewing if, in the judgment of the BOARD:

1.The average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the dominant theme of the work as a whole appeals to prurient interest and satisfies only the craving  for gratuitous sex and/or violence.
1.The work depicts in a patently lewd, offensive, or demeaning manner, excretory functions and sexual conduct such as sexual intercourse, masturbation and exhibition of the genitals.
1.The work clearly constitutes an attack against any race, creed or religion.
1.The work condones or encourages the use of illegal drugs and substances.
1.The work tends to undermine the faith and confidence of the people in their government and/or duly constituted authorities.
1.The work glorifies criminals or condones crimes.
1.The work is libelous or defamatory to the good name and reputation of any person, whether living or dead.
1.The work may constitute contempt of court or of a quasi-judicial tribunal, or may pertain to matters which are sub-judice in nature.

[Dan]

Lucky you.  I heard it was released but I was probably too late to catch it when I got to the Podium Astro branch.  Never got to see one in our local Astro shop.

There are still some copies of it at Astro Southmall and Astro Robinson's Place Manila that I saw a few weeks back.

And just to add another off-topic, Orapronobis is another film I would like to see readily available on some form. It turns out it's available as a free download here:

http://www.archive.org/details/Ora_Pro_Nobis

I don't know the legality of this since Brocka hasn't been dead for more than 50 years, if I recall correctly. But hey, the best things in life are free.

[av_phile1]

In the MTRCB rulebook, it's quite explicit that it's perfectly legal for them to ban films that speak out against or criticize the government or religious institutions.

From the MTRCB website:

You can be loud and daring without having to incite against the government or religions.  A simple story can be daring enough to stand out and be noticed. 

[DViant]

If a limit was levied (which is stricter than China's foreign film limit) I personally wouldn't be affected. The last movie I watched & paid for in theaters was Star Trek. I prefer the convenience of iTunes and watching the flicks in a home theater. Avatar sucked so I had someone pay for it.

I can watch what I want when I want without dealing with stupid MTRCB morality, human error in the projection room, unsanitary chairs, noisy patrons and celphones going off, bad food and I can drink in the theater. )

I could see a lot of theaters closing down if they imposed this limit. Higher end malls would be greatly affected. SM not that much.

If Bong wants to improve the quality of local films he has to create an environment conducive for people to invest. Right now piracy is uncontrolled so where is the incentive to invest? If he goes after the pirates he'll anger his core constituents.

[av_phile1]

Oo nga pala,  nothing will really prevent people from watching what they want, hollywood films or whatever. The internet takes care of that.  Yun nga lang hindi na 3D.     Ang kawawa will be the theater owners.  Imagine after investing on 3D equipment, they only get 1 or 2 3D movies a month, unless Shake Rattle and Roll, Ang Panday, Mano Po and other Pinoy films throughout the year can be made into 3D.

[deweyfinn]

Very true.

Old Boy, for example, had a very shocking plot twist that would NEVER fly here with mainstream producers. But it's become one of Korea's biggest international hits of the past decade. 

Speaking of risk-taking, wasn't the female lead of Oldboy (or was it Sympathy for Lady Vengeance) also "Daejanggeum" in the Koreanovela "Jewel in the Palace"  Pls. correct me if I may be wrong....

[Noel_Vera]

Very true.

Old Boy, for example, had a very shocking plot twist that would NEVER fly here with mainstream producers.

Middling shocking, I thought. Mike de Leon's dealt with it before. So has Yam Laranas, I think, though in a more hamfisted way. Ditto Carlitos Siguion Reyna.

On the subject of risk-taking--I can't imagine anyone in South Korea, or China, or even India where the average length of a movie is three hours ever taking a risk on Lav Diaz. Brillante Mendoza, maybe, but not Lav. Of course if it's commercial Filipino cinema we're talking about, I agree. One needs to make the distinction.

[DViant]

Oo nga pala,  nothing will really prevent people from watching what they want, hollywood films or whatever. The internet takes care of that.  Yun nga lang hindi na 3D.     Ang kawawa will be the theater owners.  Imagine after investing on 3D equipment, they only get 1 or 2 3D movies a month, unless Shake Rattle and Roll, Ang Panday, Mano Po and other Pinoy films throughout the year can be made into 3D.

2010 is said to be the year of 3D TV & 3D projectors... so no problem.

[av_phile1]

Oh goody, so Christmas of 2010 will hopefully see a 3D Shake Rattle and Roll.

[X44]

On the subject of risk-taking--I can't imagine anyone in South Korea, or China, or even India where the average length of a movie is three hours ever taking a risk on Lav Diaz. Brillante Mendoza, maybe, but not Lav. Of course if it's commercial Filipino cinema we're talking about, I agree. One needs to make the distinction.

Yup. Too bad no one is.

[X44]

The fact that Conde and other Pinoy directors already made waves in Cannes before makes it even more tragic and regrettable.  We already have a foot on the world stage and others beat us to it.  And no, what makes you think I'm underestimating pinoy films?  Until now I'm still on the lookout for Oro Plata Mata on DVD which I consider one of the best films of the 20th century.  

We still are making waves in 2009. We're all over the planet getting invited to filmfests ,getting shown and winning awards. There was a major Filipino film (new and old)  retrospective a few months ago in both Korea and  Europe. That's how active we are on the so-called world stage and that's also how current.  Nobody beat us to it.

More foreigners have (paid and) seen Lav Diaz , Brillante and Yanggaw hands down one of the best Asian horror films of the 2000s)  than Filipinos, hell more foreigners have seen Kidlat Tahimik, Raymond Red, Manuel Conde and Lino Brocka  - - - that's what's tragic and regrettable,specially since these films often get shown here free.

There are two kinds of Filipino cinema: the Star Cinema/Viva/Regal commerial crap most everybody misidentifies as the end-all be-all of Philippine cinema.

Saying Phil.cinema is crap based on this is like saying the Philippines is an ugly place after only having gone to Payatas.

And the risk-taking, challenging and in many ways masterful  independent cinema the rest of the world seems to have fallen in love with. (That's another aspect we're behind on,it seems, loving our own stuff.)

There has to be a distinction made.

All this stuff does get shown ,even the classics enjoy a revival or two. Granted, the venues and runs are limited. But did a limited run ever stop anyone from dropping everythng to catch a Hollywood film?

[av_phile1]

Great, then all this talk about banning Hollywood movies is nonsense.  I am not at all as interested in art films thriving only on the applause of critics and film festivals overseas as with commercial films making the artistic grade. Festival successes help a lot to be noticed.  But you need more than that.   If Pinoy Indie films have become popular in those Cannes and Berlin festivals, well and good and hope the people behind them get to have commercial success as well and be PREFERRED by their own people.  We seem to be celebrating overseas festival successes without taking care of commercial ones at home.  Or more bluntly, allowing idiots to run it.

Art films  rarely define a thriving movie industry unless they rake in the box office receipts.  You can't have a thriving film industry with just one or the other. You need both in one.  For all the crappiness of commercial films, you need them for local cinema to survive.  But you need to elevate their bland mediocrity to go beyond survival mode and truly thrive to be both a business success and something we can be proud of.   I am sure films that took in raves in Cannes wouldn't mind being commercial sucesses as well.  Why not aim like Caregiver? Or Macho Dancer? Or other Pinoy films that were both artistic and commercial successes?  Art films like Foster Child could have been a commercial success if the directors had known better how to thread the line between commercialism and art.  I am looking at the example of domestic Korean films that have made a dent on their local box office not because the Korean people flocked in droves to watch their favorite stars but because the films themselves were worth watching and in the process outgrossed the Hollywood films right in their own game.  Films like Shiri,  My Sassy Girl, My Wife Is A Gangster and Oldboy to mention some outgrossed high tech Hollywood films that were shown at the same time in Korean box office.  So much so that Hollywood has taken note and even adapted some of their titles to a wider world audience.  That's really what I meant when I said they have beaten us to it

You can distinguish between the two all you like, but you are encouraging and fostering an elitist divide between people who can appreciate a film and those who only like to see their stars.  Why must you even distinguish?  A successful cinema industry should have both qualities of artistry and commerce. Sometimes the easiest thing to do is just indulge in your creative juices without regard to anything else.,  Art for art's sake. That's just fine.  But a thriving cinema is more than that. It's a business concern as well.  No industry thrives if not run as a business.   It's a collaborative artistic and technical process that carries not only social and cultural dimensions, but fiduciary as well.  A creative and responsible director has a responsibility to the people who finance his work as a business undertaking.   But even so, you don't have to prostitute one for the other. The most endearing movies have both.  Despite all its flaws, that's what Hollywood does quite successfully for the most part. They create a balance between artistry and commerce.  Not always successful, of course..   But that's where the real challenge lies - making the cinema both a creative media and a successful business.  I don't see much point being celebrating your art films while crapping on your commercial successes, no matter how deservedly.  

[Ctlim]

How about not allowing a senator to do movies? He's wasting taxpayer money. If you want to promote philippine movies, they should get better actors Hindi yung puro tuta at minomolest Lang ng mga director and producer para may project. Also stop doing his kind of idiotic movies.... Lumang lumang tugtugin na pinipilit parin.

[blitzkrieg]

Speaking of risk-taking, wasn't the female lead of Oldboy (or was it Sympathy for Lady Vengeance) also "Daejanggeum" in the Koreanovela "Jewel in the Palace"  Pls. correct me if I may be wrong....

It's Sympathy not Oldboy tho I have yet to watch the latter. Saw Sympathy during the Cinemanila and I really liked it. It was a simple story on revenge but how the "vengeance" was executed sent chills down my spine. Really edgy and thought provoking.

[av_phile1]

How about not allowing a senator to do movies? He's wasting taxpayer money. If you want to promote philippine movies, they should get better actors Hindi yung puro tuta at minomolest Lang ng mga director and producer para may project. Also stop doing his kind of idiotic movies.... Lumang lumang tugtugin na pinipilit parin.

While I agree we need better actors, I'm don't think senators will do any better as directors. They'll likely make the MMFF a venue for political propaganda.  

[X44]

I don't see much point being celebrating your art films while crapping on your commercial successes, no matter how deservedly.  

Me neither. That's why I'm not  interested in making sarcastic remarks about Shake Rattle & Roll 3D  or somesuch, even in jest. And why I'm going to go watch Wapakman this week. And why it looks more and more like I'm siding with Bong Revilla on the matter being discussed in this thread. Oh well. Them's the breaks, I guess.

Shiri, My Sassy Girl, My Wife Is A Gangster and Oldboy, incidentally, had name stars in them, not that Hollywod cares they were just pillaging for suprlus, like with Sigaw when they remade it. But you probably meant something else when you said people didn't go see them for its stars. Oh well.  You're probably more privvy to the Korean moviegoers' psyche than I am.My bad,I guess.

Just trying to make a distinction in this discussion because it's unfair everytime someone puts down Philippine cinema   - - -its history, its international reputation, its product - - -without fact-checking and using the excesses of the commercial fare as a whip. It's unfair. Hindi tayo huli sa awards abroad, mayaman ang kasaysayan natin sa pelikula, madami tayong ginagawang magandang pelikula hanggang ngayon. A little perspectve is all.  If I'm a little bullish about it, so be it. I'm  a big, big fan of  (and very recent convert to)  Philippine cinema in all its permutations. Sue me.

And nobody's saying we don't need local pop cinema to thrive. Hell, I'm all for it. I 'd rather have our crap  - - those Shake Rattle Roll movies we do so love to piss on - - - than American crap.( Not Avatar,no. It's the second greatest film of its kind. I liked Ferngully just a litle bit better,though.)

[Noel_Vera]

And popular Filipino cinema has its champions. The odd Maryo J. Delos Reyes; Joyce Bernal; Mario O'Hara had his moneymakers, so with Celso. Even Mike De Leon had a hit, despite himself .

Bernal and Brocka did their share too. I liked some Guillen, even some Diaz-Abaya (though I dont' know if it's her hits I liked). Same with Jarlego, Posadas, Poe.

You have to remember, South Korea did have a quota system--50% of theaters required to show local films. It was part of the reason why their industry recovered. Hong Kong was a victim of Hollywood incursion--Hollywood started its globalization about the same time Hong Kong film receipts declined. So it's not as if Hollywood's the innocent party in this.

[av_phile1]

The Korean Psyche is a topic on its own that should be emulated by Pinoys.  I'm not going to digress there except to say that they have more faith and confidence in their abilities than we do, allowing them to match Japanese economic muscle in just 30 years after the Korean War.    I am not really surprised that they are leapfroging us in just about ALL aspects of the economy and industry.  Cinema is just one of them.

And all these talk about creating distinction between indie and mainstream is defeatist to say the least. You only succeed in further highlighting an Ayala Alabang and Tondo distinction in cinema. You showcase great indie films in foreign festivals but you can't put your own house in order. If I say the local film industry is generally crap, it's about the films that make up the 80% of box office reciepts, not the 20% that are seen in art houses and festivals. For the most part, I consider them as exceptions.  To point to them and say we're not that bad cinematically is tantamount to saying we're not exactly a poor country; just look at the people in Alabang driving BMWs and Benzes.  

The challenge is akin to spreading the wealth to the 80% poor folks.  How do you now translate your festival successes to your home cinema industry?  It won't happen if you continue to foster the divide.

I frankly would not mind if Hollywood films are limited or banned entirely.  I have the internet on the side. But what makes the suggestion laughable to say the least is it comes from one of those idiots who perpetuate the mediocrity in local cinema. And without your Hollywood crap to compete against, you have Pinoy crap lording it over.  No, thanks.  At least now you have a choice which crap to take.  

Unfortunately, the time is past to have protectionism in any industry.

[av_phile1]

And it's not as if pinoy movies can't compete with Hollywood films. We have Sukob that beat out X-men the last stand at the tills.   You have Ang Taniging Ina N'yng Lahat that trumped Twilight and Iron Man at the box office last year.  Whether for the right reasons or not, pinoy crap can take on Hollywood crap.  So I see no reason to ban or limit Hollywood films.  Now if only those festival-bound indies can cross over to mainstream commercial movies blurring any distinction to define what the local movie industry is, then you have a lot to look forward to for the local movie industry.

[bass_nut]

I frankly would not mind if Hollywood films are limited or banned entirely.  I have the internet on the side. But what makes the suggestion laughable to say the least is it comes from one of those idiots who perpetuate the mediocrity in local cinema. And without your Hollywood crap to compete against, you have Pinoy crap lording it over.  No, thanks.  At least now you have a choice which crap to take.  

Unfortunately, the time is past to have protectionism in any industry.

x2 !!! 

[deweyfinn]

And it's not as if pinoy movies can't compete with Hollywood films. We have Sukob that beat out X-men the last stand at the tills.   You have Ang Taniging Ina N'yng Lahat that trumped Twilight and Iron Man at the box office last year.  Whether for the right reasons or not, pinoy crap can take on Hollywood crap.  So I see no reason to ban or limit Hollywood films.  Now if only those festival-bound indies can cross over to mainstream commercial movies blurring any distinction to define what the local movie industry is, then you have a lot to look forward to for the local movie industry.

...so that non-Filipino citizens like Anne Curtis and Sam Milby can make millions (and thumb their cute noses at our BID)

Hah hah f'in hah.

[Noel_Vera]

Actually a little protectionism DOES make sense at this moment in time. What just happened? Global economic collapse. Why did it happen? Free market economies. Why is China so quick to recover? They're focusing on their domestic market.

So if free markets f*cked us up so bad, how about Something A Little Different?

[av_phile1]

Then what?

It's the same situation why the coups against GMA failed.  Who you gonna install after GMA?

Okay, so there's no Harry Potter, no Ironman, no Robin Hood.   You now have the entire domestic box office to your own.   What's next? 

[Noel_Vera]

With all these up and comers doing digital, what next? When the South Koreans cut off the crap from Hollywood, did they imagine Park Chan Wook? Kang Woo-Suk? Jang Sun-Woo? Bong Joon-ho? Kim Ki Duk? Hong Sang Soon? Stretch your imagination, cast off fear. Do we need to wait for the Americans to hand us our cinema ready made, the way they did our independence in 1946?

[Noel_Vera]

Okay, so there's no Harry Potter, no Ironman, no Robin Hood.  

All we have left is Lav Diaz, John Torres, Raya Martin, Brillante Mendoza, Dennis Marasigan, Rico Ilarde, Ellen Ongkeko, Ralston Joven, Veronica Velasco, Sherad Anthony Sanchez, Auraeus Solito, Joyce Bernal, Quark Henares, Jeffrey Jeturian, Ditsy Carolino, Ramona Diaz, Khavn de la Cruz, Chito Rono, Maryo J. delos Reyes, Peque Gallaga, Laurice Guillen, Marilou Diaz Abaya, Lupita Kashiwahara and (hoping against hope) Celso Ad. Castillo, Mike De Leon, Mario O'Hara?

Heaven help us then!

[Klaus Weasley]

And nobody's saying we don't need local pop cinema to thrive. Hell, I'm all for it. I 'd rather have our crap  - - those Shake Rattle Roll movies we do so love to piss on - - - than American crap.( Not Avatar,no. It's the second greatest film of its kind. I liked Ferngully just a litle bit better,though.)

I respectfully disagree. I'd much rather watch a crappy American/foreign movie then at least I can laugh at its incompetence rather than be embarrassed by a crappy Filipino movie. It will only make me depressed.