Topic: Bookshelf or Floorstander

[kt]

In my experience, there is better response when setting the floorstanders to small and using subwoofer on movies.  For (stereo) music setting the FS to large and not using subwoofer is better especially jazz, classical music.  

My setup: My FS is always set to small, with subwoofer on.  For movies I just use any of those yamaha DSPs or DTS standard/expanded.   For stereo sources, I just use "pure direct", in this mode FS is automatically set to large and the SW disabled.  For dance/R&B, entertainment->Disco gives me that "boom".  The FS combines with the SW crossover at 80Hz.  Pioneer 30Hz-35Khz FS being driven by yamaha 7.1 AVR.

hi sir! same with me i set my fronts to large when audio listening in stereo. then for movies usually on small then use the sub as well. in my case i upgraded my fronts to a 3 way with passive 10" side firing sub so i was wondering if setting this to large on movies would be better? or still set to small? tnx

[gearhead000]

you can still make use of your 10" passive sub even when mains are set to small by using a lower crossover frequency, say 40, 50 or 60hz... whichever is available with your yamaha. much better when you can set your x'overs to different frequencies for your center and rear too.

hi sir is this for stereo audio listening or for HT purposes as well?

the one i posted previously is meant for stereo listening... especially if you have a more ht-centric sub than being musical.

[ninjababez®]

ygpm sir sorry now ko lang nakita yung thread nalipat pala   

thanks for the reply 

@barrister
so direct is the way to go for stereo (music) playback?

[jetro]

Pure Direct or Source Direct is different from simply selecting a full-range frequency option.

Pure Direct or Source Direct bypasses non-essential internal circuitries in the receiver such as bass/treble/loudness controls, balance controls, digital processing, equalization, etc., to provide the shortest path for the audio signal and ensure pure, uncolored sound quality.  

A Direct option also turns off the receiver's front panel display and video circuitries to reduce possible noise and interference with the audio signal.

hmmm... now I am a bit confused. I thought that in using 'direct stereo', in a way, is like setting the front speaker to 'large' as the AVR now bypasses even the subwoofer and is now directing the entire range of front left and right channel signals to the floorstanders.

when I use 'direct stereo' in listening to 2 channel sources, I could have swear I hear the entire range from the FS.   This is not written in the manual directly.  Just an assumption on my part so please feel free to correct me.

now that is a bit OT.  To answer the thread, I am for floorstander because of its flexibility in handling all kinds of sources (movies, multi channel music, pure stereo).

[Stagea]

hi sir! same with me i set my fronts to large when audio listening in stereo. then for movies usually on small then use the sub as well. in my case i upgraded my fronts to a 3 way with passive 10" side firing sub so i was wondering if setting this to large on movies would be better? or still set to small? tnx

Try them both.

I personally prefer large if there is enough amp power available, and if the speakers can handle it (obviously your towers can). This helps the sub concentrate on the LFE channel, and generally sounds more cohesive (with less localization). This way, the sub works more like a true subwoofer, and not a more audible bass module.

In some receivers, this would reroute the lows from the center channel (and sometimes the surround channels) to the front speaks (instead of redirecting them to the sub) if they're set to small. Also, some receivers still apply a high pass filter on the speakers even if they're set to large, as long as the sub is on (bass redirection still happens, but at a lower crossover point).

[barrister]

@barrister
so direct is the way to go for stereo (music) playback?

Not necessarily.  

If you want the purest signal, then yes, the direct mode is the best option.

I notice that good recordings sound best on a direct mode.  But if the disc you're playing has a bad recording to start with, then a direct mode will not make much of a difference.

hmmm... now I am a bit confused. I thought that in using 'direct stereo', in a way, is like setting the front speaker to 'large' as the AVR now bypasses even the subwoofer and is now directing the entire range of front left and right channel signals to the floorstanders.

when I use 'direct stereo' in listening to 2 channel sources, I could have swear I hear the entire range from the FS.  

If we limit the comparison to the frequency range of the signals sent to the to the fronts, then a direct mode would be the same as setting the front channels to "Large", since both modes use the full frequency range.

However, a direct mode goes one step further than just using a full frequency range, since it will also bypass internal circuitry for tone controls, EQ, DSP, bass management, video, and front panel display.    

It depends on how the manufacturer implements its direct modes.  On my Yamaha, Pure Direct bypasses everything.  Other AVRs have a Source Direct mode that bypasses only the tone controls, EQ, and bass management; and a Pure Direct mode that additionally bypasses the AVR's front panel display and all video circuitry.

[kt]

you can still make use of your 10" passive sub even when mains are set to small by using a lower crossover frequency, say 40, 50 or 60hz... whichever is available with your yamaha. much better when you can set your x'overs to different frequencies for your center and rear too.

the one i posted previously is meant for stereo listening... especially if you have a more ht-centric sub than being musical.

ok noted sir! im using the cht10r

[kt]

Try them both.

I personally prefer large if there is enough amp power available, and if the speakers can handle it (obviously your towers can). This helps the sub concentrate on the LFE channel, and generally sounds more cohesive (with less localization). This way, the sub works more like a true subwoofer, and not a more audible bass module.

In some receivers, this would reroute the lows from the center channel (and sometimes the surround channels) to the front speaks (instead of redirecting them to the sub) if they're set to small. Also, some receivers still apply a high pass filter on the speakers even if they're set to large, as long as the sub is on (bass redirection still happens, but at a lower crossover point).

hi sir. i do have a power amp as well. so do i change the settings of the XO on the sub and the avr as well? currently its set at 80hz on both.

[anchit]

In my experience, there is better response when setting the floorstanders to small and using subwoofer on movies.  For (stereo) music setting the FS to large and not using subwoofer is better especially jazz, classical music.  

My setup: My FS is always set to small, with subwoofer on.  For movies I just use any of those yamaha DSPs or DTS standard/expanded.   For stereo sources, I just use "pure direct", in this mode FS is automatically set to large and the SW disabled.  For dance/R&B, entertainment->Disco gives me that "boom".  The FS combines with the SW crossover at 80Hz.  Pioneer 30Hz-35Khz FS being driven by yamaha 7.1 AVR.

very same setting except that i only a 5.1 avr, yammy as well.

[insomnia]

My preference leans towards to bookshelves when I listen to music.  And due to limited space, I think BS are more than adequate for my needs.  But I use floorstanders for my video room. 

[mak_mak]

My room is a bit cramped/clutter king here

perhaps instead of floorstanders, bookshelves plus a sub since the FS still needs a sub to go with it.

what do you guys think?

go with the BS..
NICE room huh..

[richardcruz]

It depends on the quality of the speakers. A good bookshelf (audiophile grade - in the tradition of legends like the best budget bookshelf Mission 731/i/pro, Kef Cresta, Monitor Audio Bronze to mid levels like MA silver, B&W 601/2, Dynaudio 42/52 to high ends like Proac and Harbeth) can outclass most floorstanders, unless they were from the same quality brands (e.g., Dynaudio 72, B&W 683, and the 2 most sought after FS speakers at the moment - Monitor Audio RS6 and Dali Ikon 6). But generally, bookshelves achieve far better driver integration, hence have better imaging and soundstaging than floorstanders, which have the edge in terms of grip and presence, especially when the music requires them.

[accastil]

ive been through many BS, a few odd speaker designs, and a FS when i started the hobby. it is normal for us to long for what we do not have. hence, a BS if you already have an FS, and vice versa.

as to the choice whether itd be a BS or FS, there are no wrong and right answers. we have different room sizes, sound preferences, types of music, budget limitations, etc...

i for one, settled for the longest time, with a fine BS. this could be a result of my music type, room size, sound preference too...but its just me.

just remember 1 important thing. dont pay for anything you havent listened to in your own listening area, using your own gears and your own CDs/LPs.

i hope this helps.

[olats]

How do you know if your room is too small for a floorstander or too big for a bookshelf?

I am currently looking for speakers and I do have limited space (wall to wall setup).  With my current setup (pioneer htib speakers with denon 790), the front speakers are around 6 feet away from my listening position while the surrounds are around three feet away. The area (with dining) is about 5m x 3m, although there is no door leading to the kitchen (around 3 x 2 i think).  My ceiling is around 4.3 meters high so that makes my living room + dining room occupy a total of 64 cubic meters, more or less. Almost 100% movies as of now, but I may play music every so often once I hook up my ipod.

I think compared to floor standers, bookshelf speakers plus stand will cost almost as much and will occupy as much space as well.  So, I am on the fence on this one.  Hope to get some inputs. Thanks.

Btw, I plan to invest on a good sub at a much later date as I plan to build my ht piece by piece.  If needed, I will probable get a cheap one first (or an amp for the passive htib sub) to compensate for the lack of grunt (bookshelves, they say, usually require subs).

[av_phile1]

Floorstanders are not necessary if you plan on using subwoofers.  But this hobby is not about what is necessary.  

Yes, bookshelf speakers on stand can cost about as much as floorstanders in the same series.  And will occupy the same real estate/footprint because of the stand.  So either option can be a problem for small rooms.  Unless you do a ceiling mount.

The one advantage I see with bookshelf speakers, is once you have the stand, it's easier and cheaper to go shifting from one bookshelf brand to another.   One other  advantage of bookshelf speakers on stand is you can get better speaker placement and eliminate the temptation of putting them on a shelf which is a big no-no.  

Small rooms are problematic because to get good stereo imaging, you need speakers to be placed farther from room boundaries, say a quarter of a meter away.  You might not be able to do that whether bookshelf or floorstanding.  Room mode excitation is also more severe in smaller rooms.  Yvor options coiuld  be limited to small bookshelf or satellite type speakers in really tight rooms.  Personally, if I want to enjoy great sounding music in small rooms, not that you can't have one, I'd rather use an iPod Touch with those HiFi in-ear earphones.  Just a thought.  

[sgxp]

...Personally, if I want to enjoy great sounding music in small rooms, not that you can't have one, I'd rather use an iPod Touch with those HiFi in-ear earphones.  Just a thought.  

...and spend the rest of the money on massage chair and/or Sennheiser HD800 and/or ... (limitless options) 

[olats]

Small rooms are problematic because to get good stereo imaging, you need speakers to be placed farther from room boundaries, say a quarter of a meter away.  You might not be able to do that whether bookshelf or floorstanding.  Room mode excitation is also more severe in smaller rooms.  Yvor options coiuld  be limited to small bookshelf or satellite type speakers in really tight rooms.  Personally, if I want to enjoy great sounding music in small rooms, not that you can't have one, I'd rather use an iPod Touch with those HiFi in-ear earphones.  Just a thought.  

In short, I should just save all my money and try to save up for a new place 

So better to stick with my htib speakers then? I was planning to upgrade them a bit since they kind of distort in certain movie sequences. I was actually looking into the tsi200 or wharfedale 10.2 as against their fs counterparts.

[Onkyo606]

In short, I should just save all my money and try to save up for a new place 
So better to stick with my htib speakers then? I was planning to upgrade them a bit since they kind of distort in certain movie sequences. I was actually looking into the tsi200 or wharfedale 10.2 as against their fs counterparts.

sir this is not an expert's bits and pieces but just to share with you, my HT room is 3M by 3M only but i believe i was able to achieve the kind of SQ that I really wanted. Im using a diamond 9.1 and 9cm for my HT set up with Sabre Sentinel as stand for the 9.1. For the audio. im using a 9.5. Some friends here advised me to do some inexpensive stuff to improve the SQ like covering my plasma with beach towel when i listen to audio stuff, putting bass trap at the back corner and using egg trays as diffusor. IMO FS and BS occupies the same foot print in the room and space so the room size will not be of any benefit or dis advantage wheter using BS or FS. it boils down to the SQ and qulaity of the FS or BS you will be using, but that is all a different point of discussion.

[olats]

9.1 as front and surrounds? No sub?

[av_phile1]

In short, I should just save all my money and try to save up for a new place  

So better to stick with my htib speakers then? I was planning to upgrade them a bit since they kind of distort in certain movie sequences. I was actually looking into the tsi200 or wharfedale 10.2 as against their fs counterparts.

Most HTIBs are modestly powered and can't really accomodate the dynamic power headroom demanded in DVD soundtracks.   It's also possible that their speakers are not up to the task.  By all means upgrade,  small room dimensions are a limiting factor to getting the best sound possible with your gears, but that doesn't mean better gears won't sound better than mediocre ones in those rooms, even if incremental.  

[Onkyo606]

9.1 as front and surrounds? No sub?

9.1 as front, 9CM as center 9DFS as surround, subwoofer is SVS PB10NSD.

[luis]

up ko lang.

are you a floorstander or bookshelf listener?

i started with floorstander went to bookshelf and now floorstander again but there are bookshelf now that can really go low.   

[mykel18]

Bookshelf for me. But if I have a bigger room it will be both for me.

[CoolTOYZPH]

Currently using 6-feet tall floor standers. It is alike a wall of music enveloping me.
Finding it difficult to go back to the more intimate sound of a bookshelf.
Based on experience
a) Bookshelf speaker win in intimacy
b) Floor Standers in involvement.

[cyberdraven]

For me, i would go for floorstand if we compare with BS on the same model.  The added ambiance is a welcome addition.  However, kalimitan the FS version is priced close to the next upper tier BS and if ill build a new system, i would definitely go for the higher model BS.  Another thing to consider is how important to you the low frequencies.  Most of my friends who came from car audio and some HT peeps ay hinahanap hanap ung rumble and thumb na wala sa BS.  Another good point is the room ss highlighted by mykel.  The idea of audio reproduction is to replicate the recordings in appropriate scale considering your defined stage/room.  I onced heard an array speaker in a small room and hindi ko nagustuhan, nawawala stereo separation/imaging and all the instruments images big compared to the room size.

[zram18]

floorstander only setup:(no subwoofer)-over all: better on Music
   pros  1. better sound because of the separation of the highs,mids and lows
              into separate woofers;
          2. better soundstage and depth;
          3. better localization on the bass because situated on both
              left and right speakers;
           4. more powerful amp required.
   cons 1. more expensive
          2. requires medium to large room and difficult to toe in,toe out
          3. bass not so deep.

bookshelf plus subwoofer setup: over all better on Movies
   pros 1. less expensive
          2. deeper and louder bass c/o subwoofer
          3. placement of speakers is easier and easier to focus to the listener
   cons  1. bass is localized in one location i.e. location of the sub
           2. more difficult to integrate subwoofer to BS
           3. requires stands,hence adds to the cost.

just my opinion though.
 

   

[Courage]

Bookshelf for my Audio and HT setup..

[Nelson de Leon]

I read somewhere that sometimes FS are just BS with built-in stands. Hehe!

[-mhan-]

bookshelf for me, HT and audio.

mas madali bitbitin kung kinakailangan, lalong lalo na kung ang lugar eh binabaha.

yun lang po comment ko, bow!

[dts_hdma]

bookshelf with subs for me than floorstanders, tried rti A9 before.