Topic: aesthetics vs. loudness

[-sniper-]

hi everyone!

just need your valuable opinion. i have two pairs of speakers i intend to use for my audio set-up. i won't dwell on the brand as i don't want it to affect your opinion. i just can't make up my mind on which pair to permanently use. here it goes...

the one i presently use looks really good. aside from being color-matched with my a/v rack, it does not look like a speaker at all. soundwise, i would say that it is decent. i don't know the brand of this one.

i tried the other pair i have last night. this one is branded and looks like your typical Bookshelf speaker, but its color does not match my a/v rack.

both are vintage, by the way.

i played the same song using both pairs at the same volume level on my amp. the only significant difference i noticed was that the second pair was louder, maybe around 50% louder.

if you were in my shoes, which would you use?

Thanks in advance!

[JojoD818]

hi everyone!

just need your valuable opinion. i have two pairs of speakers i intend to use for my audio set-up. i won't dwell on the brand as i don't want it to affect your opinion. i just can't make up my mind on which pair to permanently use. here it goes...

the one i presently use looks really good. aside from being color-matched with my a/v rack, it does not look like a speaker at all. soundwise, i would say that it is decent. i don't know the brand of this one.

i tried the other pair i have last night. this one is branded and looks like your typical Bookshelf speaker, but its color does not match my a/v rack.

both are vintage, by the way.

i played the same song using both pairs at the same volume level on my amp. the only significant difference i noticed was that the second pair was louder, maybe around 50% louder.

if you were in my shoes, which would you use?

Thanks in advance!

Whichever suit's your taste in SQ is the best choice, unless you are choosing for the loudest one, then obviously the loudest wins.

Sometimes being color blind has it's benefits... 

[blackie]

Dim the lights.  2nd pair of speakers

[markcrenz]

easy choice. if i were you i'd try listening alternately to both pairs at the normal listening sound pressure levels. then i'll choose the pair that sounds better. it's an audio setup isn't it?

but for me a better option is to set-up both pairs alongside. with this your setup will still look good while having the flexibility to switch between pairs depending on your mood or sound level desired.

but if you still prefer to setup your audio based entirely on how it looks that's your prerogative.

[-sniper-]

Whichever suit's your taste in SQ is the best choice, unless you are choosing for the loudest one, then obviously the loudest wins.

Sometimes being color blind has it's benefits... 

hehe...truth is, i was really leaning towards to second pair. i might have it re-painted, if it is possible. was thinking the second pair would also be beneficial to my amp as i would not have to crank up the volume that much.

Dim the lights.  2nd pair of speakers

quick fix? hahaha 

i'd try listening alternately to both pairs at the normal listening sound pressure levels. then i'll choose the pair that sounds better.

did that already and the only difference i noticed was the loudness aspect. i hear almost the same thing with the first pair except that i would have to increase the volume, which i think would burden my amp. is that right?

it's an audio setup isn't it?

yes, it is a separate audio set-up.

but for me a better option is to set-up both pairs alongside. with this your setup will still look good while having the flexibility to switch between pairs depending on your mood or sound level desired.

i might not be able to do this. the "stage" might get clogged with too many speakers. 


i can do away with the color-coordination thing, if that is the consensus i get here. 

[-sniper-]

on another matter, is there a good way to clean the speaker cover cloth? it's a bit whitish already. thanks.

[Weng!]

send the speaker to diymaster and have him cover it with vinyl to your prefered color. for sure it will look brand new after the make over.

[-sniper-]

send the speaker to diymaster and have him cover it with vinyl to your prefered color. for sure it will look brand new after the make over.

thanks. but it would be hard for me. distance is not on my side.

[mike c]

listen to both at the same SPL (using an SPL meter)

louder speakers tend to sound better to most people, hence the above.

also, at the same volume level, it might not mean that one is louder than the other, but actually "more sensitive"

[markcrenz]

assuming the same sq from either pair you'll really be better off using the speakers with higher sensitivity. at lower amp power you get more spl, lower thd, plus you reduce the effects of thermal & power compression.

[-sniper-]

listen to both at the same SPL (using an SPL meter)

louder speakers tend to sound better to most people, hence the above.

also, at the same volume level, it might not mean that one is louder than the other, but actually "more sensitive"

could one speaker being more sensitive than the other be the cause for it to sound louder?

[mike c]

could one speaker being more sensitive than the other be the cause for it to sound louder?

that's what i'm guessing is happening.  note though that high sensitivity does not always mean high max SPL.

[-sniper-]

that's what i'm guessing is happening.  note though that high sensitivity does not always mean high max SPL.

does that mean that a speaker with higher sensitivy is not always better?

[mike c]

does that mean that a speaker with higher sensitivy is not always better?

no, there are no absolutes.  there are always trade offs to speaker design.

i'm just saying, do not dismiss your other "less loud" sounding speaker because the other one sounds louder.  listen to both speakers at the same SPL level to compare, do not rely on the master volume level because that is relative to the speaker's sensitivity.

[markcrenz]

no, there are no absolutes.  there are always trade offs to speaker design.

i'm just saying, do not dismiss your other "less loud" sounding speaker because the other one sounds louder.  listen to both speakers at the same SPL level to compare, do not rely on the master volume level because that is relative to the speaker's sensitivity.

... and impedance. at the same volume setting, a 4-ohm speaker is potentially +3dB louder as it will draw 2x more power than an 8-ohm speaker.

[accastil]

id go for the better sounding speakers.

[mike c]

... and impedance. at the same volume setting, a 4-ohm speaker is potentially +3dB louder as it will draw 2x more power than an 8-ohm speaker.

AFAIK, the sensitivity spec of your speaker already takes into account the impedance.

an Xdb/1w at 1m 8 ohm speaker is equally as sensitive as a Xdb/1w at 1m 4 ohm speaker

assuming X=the same number

not very sure though, somebody will have to verify ... didn't bother to study this as i had no liking to speakers, or at least i don't care about their sensitivities or even their impedances since my amps are overkill in wattage and 2 ohm stable

[-sniper-]

no, there are no absolutes.  there are always trade offs to speaker design.

i'm just saying, do not dismiss your other "less loud" sounding speaker because the other one sounds louder.  listen to both speakers at the same SPL level to compare, do not rely on the master volume level because that is relative to the speaker's sensitivity.

thanks a lot! the only problem i have is that i do not have an SPL meter.  

... and impedance. at the same volume setting, a 4-ohm speaker is potentially +3dB louder as it will draw 2x more power than an 8-ohm speaker.

i see. the second pair has an impedance of 8ohms, 20 watts. as for the other, i cannot find any info. there are no labels.

[mike c]

thanks a lot! the only problem i have is that i do not have an SPL meter.  

i see. the second pair has an impedance of 8ohms, 20 watts. as for the other, i cannot find any info. there are no labels.

i see, kamusta naman yung "less loud" one when volume is increased to what sounds as loud as the other one?

of course, don't listen at volumes you wouldn't listen in ever.  if you will use them for party levels, use that volume level or reference level for movies and music.

[-sniper-]

i see, kamusta naman yung "less loud" one when volume is increased to what sounds as loud as the other one?

of course, don't listen at volumes you wouldn't listen in ever.  if you will use them for party levels, use that volume level or reference level for movies and music.

you mean if the sound is not distorted? hindi naman. although i noticed din pala na medyo mahina ang bass nung "less loud" pair. i have to adjust the bass on the amp to compensate. pag malakas na ang volume, medyo masyadong malakas ung kalansing.

[mike c]

you mean if the sound is not distorted? hindi naman. although i noticed din pala na medyo mahina ang bass nung "less loud" pair. i have to adjust the bass on the amp to compensate. pag malakas na ang volume, medyo masyadong malakas ung kalansing.

i see.  in that case, you might have found your speaker na   that other one na hindi makalansing.

[-sniper-]

i see.  in that case, you might have found your speaker na   that other one na hindi makalansing.

haha...somehow i thought you'd say that. 

thanks a lot for your time, sir. very much appreciated.

[markcrenz]

an Xdb/1w at 1m 8 ohm speaker is equally as sensitive as a Xdb/1w at 1m 4 ohm speaker

assuming X=the same number

yes sir mike @ XdB/1w/1m pareho yan kasi parehong 1 watt ang reference. yung ibang manufacturers kasi rate the sensitivity @ XdB/2.83volts/meter, dito na nagkakaiba ang 4 or 8 ohm. at an amplifier output voltage of 2.83volts, a 90dB/2.83v/m 4ohm speaker will draw 2 watts and produce 93dB while a 90dB/2.83v/m 8ohm speaker which will draw only 1 watt and produce 90dB.

conversely, if referenced to 1 watt (which should be the true reference for sensitivity) the 4-ohm speaker would be only 87dB/w/m while the 8-ohm speaker is still 90dB/w/m.

you mean if the sound is not distorted? hindi naman. although i noticed din pala na medyo mahina ang bass nung "less loud" pair. i have to adjust the bass on the amp to compensate. pag malakas na ang volume, medyo masyadong malakas ung kalansing.

yan na yung power compression na sinasabi ko  

[mike c]

yes sir mike @ XdB/1w/1m pareho yan kasi parehong 1 watt ang reference. yung ibang manufacturers kasi rate the sensitivity @ XdB/2.83volts/meter, dito na nagkakaiba ang 4 or 8 ohm. at an amplifier output voltage of 2.83volts, a 90dB/2.83v/m 4ohm speaker will draw 2 watts and produce 93dB while a 90dB/2.83v/m 8ohm speaker which will draw only 1 watt and produce 90dB.

conversely, if referenced to 1 watt (which should be the true reference for sensitivity) the 4-ohm speaker would be only 87dB/w/m while the 8-ohm speaker is still 90dB/w/m.
yan na yung power compression na sinasabi ko  

i see.

thanks for the info, learned something new.

[qguy]

Disregard the loudness issue.... nasa setting lang yan ng volume control ng amp mo, unless napakahina ng amplifier mo then the "louder" or the sensitivity of the speaker becomes an issue as your amplifier might clip, yung pangit na ang tunog.   

Ang audio simple lang yan... since you already have both as oppose to choosing which one to buy in a store,  what you can do is remove one speaker and listen to for several days, if you miss the other one, then put it back and remove the first one, if you do not miss the first pair, then keep the second pair.... kung di ka pa rin makapili then keep the second pair and just keep alternating from time to time para you have different flavors to choose from :-)

[-sniper-]

Disregard the loudness issue.... nasa setting lang yan ng volume control ng amp mo  

volume level was at around 9:00 when i tested both.

what you can do is remove one speaker and listen to for several days, if you miss the other one, then put it back and remove the first one, if you do not miss the first pair, then keep the second pair....

i think this would be a good idea.

ganyan talaga ang nature ng hobby natin -- trial and error. kung wala kang tyaga, di mo mae-enjoy ng husto, whether HT or audio.

[-sniper-]

just to update --

verdict is made. listened to two cds friday night using the small, less loud speakers. then listened to the same cds saturday morning. same settings for both and without using my sub.

after my little experiment, i decided to change speakers. i am now using the vintage speakers, which is a pioneer. my audio set-up now sounds better and more balanced.

thanks for all the inputs! 

[markcrenz]

the verdict is out. may we know the "other suspect?"

[-sniper-]

may we know the "other suspect?"

do you mean the other speaker?

[audiojunkie]

do you mean the other speaker?

I think so sir!...     

most of us really wanted to know the identity of the other suspect...