Topic: PDVD Media Player Blind Test Shoot-Out! Feb 27,2010

[iiinas]

PDVD Media Player Blind Test Shoot-Out!
by Streetsmart

The blind test involved the pq of 5 media players:

The Players

1. WDTV (1st generation version)


2. Popcorn C200


3. eGreat 31B


4. Mede8er


5. Xtreamer


The Popcorn and the Mede8er were kindly provided by our good friend @Gren from eHome.

We figured that this was already a pretty good representation of the players in the market.

We tried our best to make the blind test as objective and scientific as possible. We had 5 hard drives connected to the 5 players. The players were then connected to an HDMI switcher (c/o @pchin, thanks!) and then output to the Denon AVR and then the projector.

The Scenes

We selected "27 Dresses" as the test movie because it has a lot of scenes with natural lighting, along with greenery, dark scenes and fast motion. The movie was 720p/24 and the players upscaled this to 1080p/24. No external video processing was used so the raw data was sent to the projector.

The first major problem we had was that every now and then, the eGreat would just die by itself. After a long time, we realized that the remote of the Mede8er was somehow affecting the eGreat so we separated the eGreat from the other players and that solved the problem.

The way we did the test was that we determined the time of the scene to be tested (there were 3 different scenes, with a variety of video challenges -- natural light, dark scenes, motion, buildings, greenery). We then decided on the sequence of the players and cued the players to all play at the same time, but with a 2 minute difference between players, and then we paused the players.

We ran the first player and then called the guys in from outside the room. The first player had a 1 minute gap before the actual start of the scene. When the scene started, we put the 4 other players on "play".

The big problem was that for whatever reason, whenever we put the Mede8er on pause, it would not start properly. After a while, we decided that the only way to include the Mede8er in the test would be to have it as the first player for all 3 scenes. Otherwise, we randomly mixed the sequence of the players. Only the Mede8er was fixed as always the first player.

The Criteria:

1. Sharpness
2. Detail
3. Motion stutter
4. Color accuracy
5. Color saturation
6. Edge enhancement

There was a brief lecture on each of the criteria before the start of the test. People left the room, we set up the scene and then brought the people back in. This was repeated for each of the 3 scenes.

PDVD Members / Participants:

1. Jazzy Jake
2. Blackie
3. Anchit
4. Jay2
5. Stickfighter
6. JohnE.
7. Esi
8. Alvinh
9. Gunblade977
10. Juancho
11. Nogie
12. Gaol
13. markcrenz
14. Mike C
15. Dts-HD 3D
16. Setup
17. Pchin

Aside from these guys, the others in the EB were myself, iiinas, bass_nut (late dumating) and Zedric (also late).

The Results:

The scoring was 1-5, with 5 being the best. The results were quite surprising. The average scores were as follows:

1. WDTV (the 1st generation!) -- 4.40
2. Xtreamer -- 4.37
3. eGreat 31b -- 4.29
4. Popcorn Hour C200 -- 4.26
5. Mede8er 4.06

After the blind test, we explained that the Mede8er was always the first player and many people commented that the first player has a disadvantage because people come from outside (bright place) and come into the theater (dark place) so your eyes take time to adjust.

I think this may be the main reason why the Mede8er placed poorly. Just today, Alvinthx2 and myself reviewed the Mede8er vs. the Xtreamer with the same scenes and frankly, we could hardly tell the difference.

In fact, most people had the same comment. In a blind test, it was nearly impossible to tell the difference in quality between players.

My personal conclusion (Streetsmart):

The current crop of media players have nearly equal pq. Their main differences will be in their menu, boot-up speed, stability, navigation, etc. Based on this, the 1st gen WDTV (which won the blind test) actually sucks, particularly for navigation but insofar as pq is concerned, I think that all media players are virtually equal in quality.

[iiinas]

just to add my personal observations during the setting up of the blind test:

although no actual measurements were taken, i observed that the mede8er loads the fastest followed by xtreamer, the wdtv and the popcorn c-200 are almost the same while the e-great was the slowest of all.

in terms of gui, i personally liked the c-200's gui. very classy almost like the gui of mainstream appliances like panasonic and sony. the mede8er was 2nd for me then the egreat. the xtreamer is 4th while the wdtv is the last.

for the remote control. the c-200's remote is the only backlit of all the remotes. but i think in terms of button placement the egreat's still is better. the xtreamer and the mede8er for me is almost the same in function. the wdtv's remote for me is the lousiest of all. very small. lack a lot of the needed functions. we actually had a hard time during set up because it does not have a time seek function.

in terms of built quality: it is obvious that the c-200 get it here. its made of aluminum, with blue lcd screen, its actually a life saver for us, since we use the display to time the scenes. the second for me would be the mede8er. it has buttons on the player itself so you wont be solely relying on the remote. although there is no lcd on the unit. the third for me is the egreat, still looks good even if its considered an old unit. the 4th for me is the wdtv. its a very small unit with piano finish plastic looks great with wd's passport or my book external hdds. the cheapest build quality for me is the xtreamer (i own one), its really plasticky in looks. no buttons, only the led power light. i think spending another php850 would go a long way by adding the aluminum side winder.

sorry but we never really tested the players' other features like networking (if available) and the other stuff. so we cant really give a fair comment on those. in terms of pricing, i think you guys would know already.  

just to put a little perspective on the test. here are some shots of the equipments and venue where the test was conducted.


new sony bravia projector


130" screen

[Onkyo606]

just to add my personal observations during the setting up of the blind test:

although no actual measurements were taken, i observed that the mede8er loads the fastest followed by xtreamer, the wdtv and the popcorn c-200 are almost the same while the e-great was the slowest of all.

in terms of gui, i personally liked the c-200's gui. very classy almost like the gui of mainstream appliances like panasonic and sony. the mede8er was 2nd for me then the egreat. the xtreamer is 4th while the wdtv is the last.

for the remote control. the c-200's remote is the only backlit of all the remotes. but i think in terms of button placement the egreat's still is better. the xtreamer and the mede8er for me is almost the same in function. the wdtv's remote for me is the lousiest of all. very small. lack a lot of the needed functions. we actually had a hard time during set up because it does not have a time seek function.

in terms of built quality: it is obvious that the c-200 get it here. its made of aluminum, with blue lcd screen, its actually a life saver for us, since we use the display to time the scenes. the second for me would be the mede8er. it has buttons on the player itself so you wont be solely relying on the remote. although there is no lcd on the unit. the third for me is the egreat, still looks good even if its considered an old unit. the 4th for me is the wdtv. its a very small unit with piano finish plastic looks great with wd's passport or my book external hdds. the cheapest build quality for me is the xtreamer (i own one), its really plasticky in looks. no buttons, only the led power light. i think spending another php850 would go a long way by adding the aluminum side winder.

sorry but we never really tested the players' other features like networking (if available) and the other stuff. so we cant really give a fair comment on those. in terms of pricing, i think you guys would know already.  

+1,

if its a matter of preference, the result may not be of huge significance for example, just before one of the attendees left, he mentioned that while he felt there is one that has better PQ among the NMTs tested, deciding factor for him would be the size of the NMT considering he uses hugely built gears, i even joked that he either get the C200 or two mede8er laid side by side to make it look big .

my NMT is not included in those tested but was surprised to see that the GUI, features, loading time and PQ is almost the same if not the same as the mede8ter but around 2K cheaper

[Arnel E.]

Well as long as you use HDMI connection, I wouldn't expect any significant difference in PQ between any two media players.  Unless digital processing (noise reduction, etc.) come into play, the raw image should be essentially the same after it's decoded properly.  Any additional image enhancement is where the DSP of the display (LCD TV, projector, etc) comes in.

PQ has never been a concern for me when choosing a media player.  It's usually the features, UI, speed, etc.

[mike c]

i have a few days to make a decision ...

mede8er vs. xtreamer (vs. xtreamer pro)

pareho ba chip model nitong dalawa?  or newer ang mede8er?

[iiinas]

i have a few days to make a decision ...

mede8er vs. xtreamer

pareho ba chip model nitong dalawa?  or newer ang mede8er?

basically, panalo ang mede8r sa xtreamer in terms of 3.5" internal HD.  question ko lang po sa mga may xtreamer NAS.  diba 3.5" HD's din yun?  puwede ba yun gamitin as external HD through USB?  how much yun NAS?

both uses realtek chips, but not the same realtek chips. the mede8er uses the more common one being use by the other media players.

in my case, the nas (etrayz) is connected to my router, and the xtreamer uses wifi to get the contents out of the nas. its playing 720p contents without stuttering. although i think it might encounter problems with 1080p content. once the nas is configured, and you set-up the xtreamer's wifi connections. the xtreamer readily recognizes the nas and you are free to interact with it.

have not tried connecting the nas to the xtreamer through usb though. although i have connected an external to the nas and the xtreamer also sees its contents through wifi when i connect to the nas.

let's see... 3 wd mybook essential = 14.7k-15.3k; etrayz (nas) + two 1.5tb wd greens = 16.5k - 17.1k

[mike c]

mahal pala grand total, ayoko kasi mag exceed ng 8-9k.

may sata connection ba ang xtreamer like the egreat 34?
if yes,
meron bang some sort of hard drive casing na sata ang connection?

sayang kasi i have a few internal HD's, ayaw basahin ng egreat ko yung external casing connections (pero sa PC ok naman)

[iiinas]

Well as long as you use HDMI connection, I wouldn't expect any significant difference in PQ between any two media players.  Unless digital processing (noise reduction, etc.) come into play, the raw image should be essentially the same after it's decoded properly.  Any additional image enhancement is where the DSP of the display (LCD TV, projector, etc) comes in.

PQ has never been a concern for me when choosing a media player.  It's usually the features, UI, speed, etc.

yes, you are right, but unless we really did it, there will always be question regarding this. and i think the blind test more or less made the question moot.  

[iiinas]

mahal pala grand total, ayoko kasi mag exceed ng 8-9k.

may sata connection ba ang xtreamer like the egreat 34?
if yes,
meron bang some sort of hard drive casing na sata ang connection?

sayang kasi i have a few internal HD's, ayaw basahin ng egreat ko yung external casing connections (pero sa PC ok naman)

xtreamer pro will have esata (is this the same as sata?) connection. 

its a hard decision to make. but if i were you i would wait for its release. i got the xtreamer already when the model was announced. if ever i would get the pro too.

the pro has 2 bays for 3.5" hdds. so in theory it can have 4tb just on the player itself.

[mike c]

xtreamer pro will have esata (is this the same as sata?) connection.  

its a hard decision to make. but if i were you i would wait for its release. i got the xtreamer already when the model was announced. if ever i would get the pro too.

the pro has 2 bays for 3.5" hdds. so in theory it can have 4tb just on the player itself.

iba yata ang ESATA and SATA ng egreat

the SATA is the same sa desktop connection inside the PC casing (pero napunta lang sa labas)
ESATA is for external talaga.

yan ang mahirap ... waiting.

parang i want to choose between the current xtreamer or mede8er.

btw, anong ibig sabihin the mede8er uses the more common chipset, aling chipset is theoretically better?

[iiinas]

xtreamer pro will have esata (is this the same as sata?) connection. 

its a hard decision to make. but if i were you i would wait for its release. i got the xtreamer already when the model was announced. if ever i would get the pro too.

the pro has 2 bays for 3.5" hdds. so in theory it can have 4tb just on the player itself.

mede8er, egreat r1, cinematube, hdpro all uses the realtek 1073 chip, the xtreamer uses the realtek 1283 chip. in theory it should be the xtreamer chip.

[mike c]

thanks!  esep esep.

tanong ko rin si mark kung anong bibilhin niya

[blackie]

Thanks for starting this thread Kagawad!

Brother Alvinh brought up a good point when we tested scenes just coming into the room.  Being that it was bright (daylight) just before we stepped in, it took some time for our eyes to adjust to scenes being played. Apart from scene 1, player 1 and player 2 (just before the cab ride) was quite hard to tell differences in scene 2 (sisters walking to the boathouse) and scene 3 (benny and the jets).

Cheers

[markcrenz]

Thanks for starting this thread Kagawad!

Brother Alvinh brought up a good point when we tested scenes just coming into the room.  Being that it was bright (daylight) just before we stepped in, it took some time for our eyes to adjust to scenes being played. Apart from scene 1, player 1 and player 2 (just before the cab ride) was quite hard to tell differences in scene 2 (sisters walking to the boathouse) and scene 3 (benny and the jets).

Cheers

and during the eye adjustment stage our perception of color changes as well. this skewed the ratings against the mede8er. however the 8% diff between the highest and lowest scores is virtually insignificant. sa features na lang talaga magkakatalo.

sa looks winner ang c200 for me. aside from the lcd display and front controls, its width nicely complements other a/v equipment.

[Clondalkin]

Just curious why you used a 720p content?

[mike c]

Just curious why you used a 720p content?

wholesome kasi yung 720p content.

kamusta ang detail?

yung 1080p content mas educational.   

[markcrenz]

wala bang screenshots nung educational 1080p content? para matuto rin other members how to spot edge enhancement at the center!

congrats nga pala kina sirs blackie & dts_hd3d for winning the bet! berjer! berjer!

[gaol]

wala bang screenshots nung educational 1080p content? para matuto rin other members how to spot edge enhancement at the center!

congrats nga pala kina sirs blackie & dts_hd3d for winning the bet! berjer! berjer!

Onga naman, for purely educational purposes, maganda sanang may screenshot! 

Dapat pala di ko binago yung bet ko huhuhu 

[iiinas]

Just curious why you used a 720p content?

not sure. i will ask sir mark.

but my guess is, we chose 27 dresses the movie for the scenes but we only have the 720p copy of the movie.

[blackie]

Onga naman, for purely educational purposes, maganda sanang may screenshot! 

Dapat pala di ko binago yung bet ko huhuhu 

Hi Gaol,

Nice meeting you during the EB.  The choice of the Extremer was pure luck.  I remember Sir Eric (bitstream) demoing it to us during the last EB at Sir Mark's.  Was not too familiar with the other tanks and so decided with the Extreamer.  I'm sure many will agree that there were just some scenes, in the bar-singing on top of the bar-dark scene in the car, and finally that daytime scene, where it was all but too hard to spot the difference

Cheers

[gaol]

Hi Gaol,

Nice meeting you during the EB.  The choice of the Extremer was pure luck.  I remember Sir Eric (bitstream) demoing it to us during the last EB at Sir Mark's.  Was not too familiar with the other tanks and so decided with the Extreamer.  I'm sure many will agree that there were just some scenes, in the bar-singing on top of the bar-dark scene in the car, and finally that daytime scene, where it was all but too hard to spot the difference

Cheers

Hi Blackie, nice meeting you too.

Yup I know, with the scores that close, any player could have come out on top. I chose WDTV in the beginning only because no one else did (and I thought it was the Live) hehe All in all it was fun! 

Cheers!

[streetsmart]

Just curious why you used a 720p content?

2 reasons:

1) I thought it would be a good way to show how smoothly the player is able to upscale 720p/24 to 1080p/24.

2) I had a very hard time looking for movies with a lot of natural light, pure colors, with both bright and dark scenes, colors not purposely made greenish or reddish, sharp, etc. "27 Dresses" was one of the very few movies that met this criterion and it was 720p. I would say that a similar movie would be "The Devil Wears Prada."

[tigkal]

Can we see the breakdown of the ratings based on the criteria? Maybe we can come up with a decision based on what is really important to to the user. Thanks

[wengkapre]

The Results:

The scoring was 1-5, with 5 being the best. The results were quite surprising. The average scores were as follows:

1. WDTV (the 1st generation!) -- 4.40
2. Xtreamer -- 4.37
3. eGreat 31b -- 4.29
4. Popcorn Hour C200 -- 4.26
5. Mede8er 4.06

Thanks for this thread Sir Mark...

[streetsmart]

Can we see the breakdown of the ratings based on the criteria? Maybe we can come up with a decision based on what is really important to to the user. Thanks

This is a good idea, pero medyo tedious. Give me a couple of days and I will produce the cross-tabulated results.

[dencio105]

This is a good idea, pero medyo tedious. Give me a couple of days and I will produce the cross-tabulated results.

I'm looking forward to this.

[gaol]

This is a good idea, pero medyo tedious. Give me a couple of days and I will produce the cross-tabulated results.

or pwede rin the rankings for each criteria (if this is easier), so that we can see which is best as far sharpness, detail, color accuracy, etc. ...

[streetsmart]

Can we see the breakdown of the ratings based on the criteria? Maybe we can come up with a decision based on what is really important to to the user. Thanks

or pwede rin the rankings for each criteria (if this is easier), so that we can see which is best as far sharpness, detail, color accuracy, etc. ...

@gaol, I thought that's exactly what @tigkal was referring to. Rank each player according to each criterion.

[gaol]

@gaol, I thought that's exactly what @tigkal was referring to. Rank each player according to each criterion.

Ah ok, ayus yan ... 

[raptor]

my bad ... i was not able to attend this event ... good to note however that quality is almost the same across the platforms

this means that it would be down to features, stability, support, hardware build, and of course the budget when choosing the right NMT

this actually validates my observation on the three platforms that i owned (PCH A100, TVIX M6500, and Xtreamer) ... i cannot see any difference in the quality ... picture quality can be adjusted to reach the same optimum level (by my own standards) on each platform - i'm only using InTune HD software and a pair blue screen filters to manually make the calibration of my TV for each player

there's significant difference however in sound quality when playing the full BD-rips with TrueHD and DTS-HD ... the Xtreamer does not pass through the HD audio so I'm limited to DTS ... when Playing the Sony BD Demo (which contains DTS, DTS-HD and TrueHD), the surround sound is more distinct on the TVIX since it can pass the HD audio signals to the AVR