Topic: Marantz cd6003 vs. Rotel 1072

[fisherking]

Considering these two cdp's to match with my Jolida Vacuum tube amp and B&W 603s.

Marantz cd6003 vs. Rotel 1072

Any opinions from the gurus?

Thanks!

[dts-HD 3D]

+1 for Marantz.

I'm no guru here sir, but Marantz cd6003 was once awarded as What Hifi's Best cd player among its class. 

[Sanjay]

Go for the marantz CD6003

[looks]

for me, I'd go for marantz too. hindi ka magsisisi. 

[ayosbathere]

the safe combo is

CD6003+PM6003 .. panalo yan

[accastil]

Considering these two cdp's to match with my Jolida Vacuum tube amp and B&W 603s.

Marantz cd6003 vs. Rotel 1072

Any opinions from the gurus?

Thanks!

jolida (laidback..for me)
603 (neutral...for me)

the marantz will make your system sound more laid back (for me)
the rotel will compensate and will render an over all neutral sound (for me)
however, the rotel sounds more mechanical(solid state) than the marantz.

in the end, its your ears and your taste of music that will dictate which one would best fit your system.
if i have your system, id gor for the rotel...and this is bcoz i like it a bit bright and forward sounding and i listen more often to pop music.

i am very sure that someone who likes it dull and laidback and likes to listen to vocals would go for the marantz.

take note, im using a marantz dvdp

[fisherking]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

Best comment so far is by accastil with "i am very sure that someone who likes it dull and laidback and likes to listen to vocals would go for the marantz."

I never knew laidback was synonymous to dull. 

I like listening to classical, voice, and instrumentals on the system.  Currently playing my cds on my PS3.  Hoping the cdp will be an upgrade with either brand.

I enjoy the round and cushioned sound of my tubes coupled with the clarity of my b&ws.  I prefer voices forward with instruments following not far behind.  I've listened to systems that keep the instruments too far in the background and its not to my liking.

Any more comments? Or other suggestions on cdps?

Thanks!

[sonnysin168]

I have to agree with accastil's comments/suggestions. I previously owned a Marantz cd67mkIISE and currently have a Marantz DV 6001 sacd/dvda/cd combo player. I felt that their highs were a bit rolled-off but smooth. I have no issues with the mid and low end though. I will go for the Rotel, assuming that you will retain the amp and speakers of course.

[accastil]

I never knew laidback was synonymous to dull. 

of course not, its not the same bro. "laid back" describes the depth of sound (its distance to your listening position). "dull" describes the overall tonality of the sound...just the exact opposite of "bright"

for displays, these 2 are analogous to contrast and brightness

[accastil]

so you see, its not about the brand or the price of the component....its about what you like, and what you need to achieve what it is that you like...plain and simple:)

but its not that easy....to know this, you really need to know how every brand sounds like. every brand has their own signature or "house" sound... and you can just imagine how complicated it is to mix and match them if the most basic system would consist of 5 components (source,amp,speakers, ic, wires)...how much more for complicated systems with bi-amps, tri-amps, outboard pwer supplies, DACs, etc, etc...

so, dont buy so fast. listen, listen, listen, listen..............................................then think, choose, BUY!

[fisherking]

Thanks Allan!

I'm trying to take my time now.

Its true.  Its very easy to buy assuming you got the moolah but its the regret that comes with the blind purchase that eats at you after.

Given that, any advice on a cdp at the Php25k budget?

[accastil]

if you are critical about SQ, dont settle for a cdp.
buy a reputable cdp/dvdp + a nice DAC+DAC power supply...with your 25T budget, its gonna be good already.

what player to buy and what DAC to buy would be all up to your auditioning experience.
enjoy the hunt bro.
if u are still planning to upgrade the other parts of your system, then get the best player and DAC that you can afford even if it would take a longer while of saving up coz you dont want it to be left behind once you have already upgraded your speakers and amps.....

BUT if youll buy a high end DAC and player for now, dont expect it to sound as you heard it in your audition. its gonna take a lot more expensive amp and speakers than your existing gears.

in short, every gear has a price range to follow.....to bring out its potential. dont expect a very good DAC+ cdp to sound good if the other parts of the system is not "price-matched" , so to speak.

[fisherking]

What do you guys think about the Arcam Blackbox 500 and Arcam Delta 170?  A little higher than the original budget.

Where do you guys shop for these stuff?

[accastil]

What do you guys think about the Arcam Blackbox 500 and Arcam Delta 170?  A little higher than the original budget.

Where do you guys shop for these stuff?

havent heard of these models yet but arcam as a brand is reputable and ive listened to at least 4 models of their cdps and amps already...they sound really good.

[Stagea]

if you are critical about SQ, dont settle for a cdp.
buy a reputable cdp/dvdp + a nice DAC+DAC power supply...with your 25T budget, its gonna be good already.

Hi sir Accastil,

Would it be possible for you to name a good CDP + DAC that would fit in a 25T budget?

I'm just asking because I probably am yet to encounter them. Based on some experiments in the past, I'm bound to favor a single box unit at this price range.

Thanks much.

@ fisherking

Why the sudden shift to older gear? Arcam makes nice products. AVDI actually has some fairly recent (not current) models at 50% off (bnew). There is one selling at 25k (CD73 afaik), if you like the Arcam sound. The Arcam sound is much warmer and fuller-sounding than Rotel's house sound (I also find them warmer-sounding than current model Marantz gear).

[accastil]

i agree, arcam has a warmer and fuller sound than rotel. but since you have a jolida amp and BnW speakers, im not sure how the arcam would fit well into it.

used DAC from MF, CA, CAL, etc + mid level dvdp from marantz, philips, LG, pioneer (could also be a used cdp from CA, rotel, marantz).

ive owned the 640C, RCD02, njoe tjoeb...to my ears, none has beaten the marantz dvdp+mfdacv3+mfxpsuv3 in any area.

[Stagea]

Thanks Allan. I guess it worked for your system. The MF X-DAC v3 and the V-DAC didn't work so well for me (feeding off a 640C then). The 640C seemed to layer better and reveal more details on its own. Everything felt rolled off at both extremes with the MFs, and layering wasn't quite what I was looking for. The sound was very smooth and fatigue-free though. Aside from the house sound (and how it didn't work with my system), I tend to put the blame on the SPDIF connection.

This is why I ended up going the 740C, then 840C route. Some people find these players analytical, but I love the amount of detail they put out. They also image and layer very well (in exchange for some coldness in the vocals and less punch in the lows).

[accastil]

my system is generally forward and bright sounding. its not meant to play with any azur line of cdps....this is why....

i need something to tame down the brightness and lay back the vocals a bit. this is what the mf has given.

as for the "detail", a bright and forward sounding component of a system would almost always have the "effect" of improving the "detail"...may it be a player, cable, amp, speaker, or anything added within the system. it is not supposed to be a generality but this is the case for most of the time. conversely, a dull and laid back part of the system would "seem" to have an effect of "hiding" some of the details........

[Stagea]

The 740C and the 840C also sound significantly better with their internal transports versus when one is feeding the other via SPDIF. The instruments lost the defined layering in this configuration, and images got a bit more vague (the same experience I got with my MF DACs). This is why I eventually concluded that SPDIF is largely to blame.

High-end DACs may have excellent jitter rejection, but they cost so much more. At this price level I've had better success with the single box solution.

That being said, some DACs have I2S inputs (and some transports have that output as well). I haven't heard this connection at work, but I expect significant sonic improvements versus an SPDIF link.

[accastil]

my system is generally forward and bright sounding. its not meant to play with any azur line of cdps....this is why....

i need something to tame down the brightness and lay back the vocals a bit. this is what the mf has given.

as for the "detail", a bright and forward sounding component of a system would almost always have the "effect" of improving the "detail"...may it be a player, cable, amp, speaker, or anything added within the system. it is not supposed to be a generality but this is the case for most of the time. conversely, a dull and laid back part of the system would "seem" to have an effect of "hiding" some of the details........

have you tried this for your system:
transport - 340C
DAC - benchmark DAC1

[Stagea]

Hi Allan,

Is that for me or for the TS?

[accastil]

Hi Allan,

Is that for me or for the TS?

sorry bro. meant for you.
benchmark DACs are a bit bright sounding and has this effect of revealing more details than most DACs costing 2-3X as much.
i was thinking maybe that if you liked the sound of azur, i guess youd like benchmark DACs too.

[fisherking]

Stagea,

Just experimenting with the options.  Currently auditioning a Classe .5 cdp on my system.  Pretty good so far.

Fisherking.

Have you guys had any experience with their cdps?

[Stagea]

Stagea,

Just experimenting with the options.  Currently auditioning a Classe .5 cdp on my system.  Pretty good so far.

That's a really smooth-sounding CDP, with a bit more chest and low freqs than MFs. Those CDPs are built like tanks.

@accastil

I haven't tried the Benchmark DACs, and I've disposed my 340C and 640C sometime ago. I still have the 840C and the 740C though. Both can output either native (16-bit 44kHz) or upsampled (selectable upto 24-bit 192kHz) signals via SPDIF. Internal upsampling (for the internal DAC) is fixed to 24-bit 384kHz.

Looking at measurements from reviews, it seems like the Benchmarks do have good jitter rejection. Numbers are almost as low as good dedicated CDPs. Which local store would usually carry this brand?

[fisherking]

Stagea,

What are MF's?

How does the Classe compare to the Cambridge Audio 650 or higher model?

My concern is that the Classe is based on 14 yr old tech and new cdp's have pretty much caught up and at a more manageable price.

Based on my research, it uses a 20-bit DAC while newer cpds have dual 24-bit DAC's.

I'm confused.

[Stagea]

MF = Musical Fidelity.

The 650C will probably delineate instruments better, with solid imaging and very good stage depth (not distance) and layering for the price. This CDP has a relatively fast sound, with a defined leading edge and urgent attack. This can also liven up a dark sounding system because of its bright and forward nature.

Based on the sound I remember, the Classe will most likely impart a better sense of scale and would have a more enveloping stage (if a bit more shallow). Vocals are also lovelier with this CDP in general, with instruments having more weight and body.

I suggest you take the CDP to a 5th avenue branch, if you'd like to compare it with the 650C. A/B it and see what works for you. Just remember that their system would have a different character from yours, and maybe you can make a good assumption based on their differences if the CDP would work in your system. Taking your speakers and amp of course would be best (or taking the CDP home with you), but that can be too inconvenient.

Perhaps you can coordinate with Sanjay, if you'd like to do this with the Marantz. AVDI and Sound Dimension carry Rotel products, and may be able to help you with the Rotel.

[accastil]

That's a really smooth-sounding CDP, with a bit more chest and low freqs than MFs. Those CDPs are built like tanks.

@accastil

I haven't tried the Benchmark DACs, and I've disposed my 340C and 640C sometime ago. I still have the 840C and the 740C though. Both can output either native (16-bit 44kHz) or upsampled (selectable upto 24-bit 192kHz) signals via SPDIF. Internal upsampling (for the internal DAC) is fixed to 24-bit 384kHz.

Looking at measurements from reviews, it seems like the Benchmarks do have good jitter rejection. Numbers are almost as low as good dedicated CDPs. Which local store would usually carry this brand?

i dont know of any local store carrying this brand but there are lots of offers in teh used market in this forum and at WS.

[JoeyGS]

Hi Stagea,

Have you tried the Cayin CD50t and compared with the 840C and 740C?  The cd50t has a tubed output and I am happy with it.  Mods have also been made by changing the caps to mundorf and the opamps to BB.

Thanks
JoeyGS

I haven't tried the Benchmark DACs, and I've disposed my 340C and 640C sometime ago. I still have the 840C and the 740C though. Both can output either native (16-bit 44kHz) or upsampled (selectable upto 24-bit 192kHz) signals via SPDIF. Internal upsampling (for the internal DAC) is fixed to 24-bit 384kHz.

Looking at measurements from reviews, it seems like the Benchmarks do have good jitter rejection. Numbers are almost as low as good dedicated CDPs. Which local store would usually carry this brand?

[Stagea]

Hi Stagea,

Have you tried the Cayin CD50t and compared with the 840C and 740C?  The cd50t has a tubed output and I am happy with it.  Mods have also been made by changing the caps to mundorf and the opamps to BB.

Thanks
JoeyGS

Hi Joey,

I've heard some Cayin CDPs hooked up to Cayin amps. They're sweet sounding and emotive gear, and I love them for vocals, brass ensembles and string solos.

Overall, I prefer the clean, dynamic and pacey sound of SS gear though. I find them a bit more flexible, if a bit uninvolving.

[JoeyGS]

You should try listening with the Cayin cd players with hydrid of SS setups...especially with SS power amps....an you'll get the dynamics and fast pace sound.

The the reason why I shifted from all tubes to hybrid systems. I employed tubes on the preamps in order to get the tube sound into the system and utilized SS power amps to ensure the dynamics and punch are still there.  Overall the system becomes detailed and fast paced yet having the airy sound of tubes.  For me, tubed power amps appears to be slow in response in some music genre.

Hi Joey,

I've heard some Cayin CDPs hooked up to Cayin amps. They're sweet sounding and emotive gear, and I love them for vocals, brass ensembles and string solos.

Overall, I prefer the clean, dynamic and pacey sound of SS gear though. I find them a bit more flexible, if a bit uninvolving.