Topic: NBA 2011

[oweidah]

yung lbj mj comparison parang too soon..


e yung lbj pippen comparison? parang kung tutuusin may laban diba?

pip may not be as dominant as lbj, pero maski paano mapapaisip ka rin...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObgS6uUVjQ

scottie complements mike. he stuck to his robin-role till the end.

nung unang "retirement" ni mj, very unhappy si scottie. nangamote ang bulls. a few days before mj returned, accdg. to articles ive read, kakaiba na dating ni scottie, masigla na naman.

___

wise move by lbj, dont be so cocky. kita mo si mark cuban, lips sealed. good for the mavs.

___

many in the nba's top 50 had no rings. stocktontulamalone, reggiemiller, patrickewing etc. natapat sila sa jordan era. pero sa mga usapan ng top 5 o 10, laging nandun ang mga greats na may achievement - championship banners that hang on their team venues' rafters. mj,magic,bird,kareem,wilt,billR, even johnhavlicek,jerrywest

[mattia]

IF hindi mag-champion miami heat. may marinig ka kaya sa greatness ni lbj?   

Hindi pa nga nag champion eh, may nagsabi na na greatest player sya.  At hindi ako nagsabi.  Si Scottie Pippen! Teammate ni Michael Jordan

Pano pag nag champion pa ang mama? According to Bloomberg News makakarinig tayo ng ingay worth $4 Billion, and sa China pa lang yun.  Sus ginoo.

[oweidah]

Hindi pa nga nag champion eh, may nagsabi na na greatest player sya.  At hindi ako nagsabi.  Si Scottie Pippen! Teammate ni Michael Jordan

Pano pag nag champion pa ang mama? According to Bloomberg News makakarinig tayo ng ingay worth $4 Billion, and sa China pa lang yun.  Sus ginoo.

ngayon yan. at sino ang lagi nila binibigyan ng credit kung bakit ganito ang stature ng nba ngayon? guess who?

david stern?  o si airness? 

[Gob_Loves_Sony]

kung di mag ka RING lbj at the end oh his career...i will consider him the best player who has not won a championship..and i will still wear his jersey...even if horry's got how many? 6-7?
i havent seen a horry jersey?is there any?here?

[oweidah]

kung di mag ka RING lbj at the end oh his career...i will consider him the best player who has not won a championship..and i will still wear his jersey...even if horry's got how many? 6-7?
i havent seen a horry jersey?is there any?here?

maski 8-10 rings makuha ni lbj, may bahid na ang career niya. ask cleveland fans and other sports afficionados. 

[Gob_Loves_Sony]

lahat naman halos ng great players may bahid eh...hehehe just my cent...

[oweidah]

mj stuck it out with the bulls maski sikat na pero di pa nag-champion. billR larryB- true-green celts, magicJ LA. kareem gave milwaukee a championship before being traded to LA., wiltC 76er nag champ din with LA

kung ano man ang bahid pero - no quitters here ^

lahat naman halos ng great players may bahid eh...hehehe just my cent...

[leomarley]

maski 8-10 rings makuha ni lbj, may bahid na ang career niya. ask cleveland fans and other sports afficionados. 

well, haters just keep on hating. kahit sino namang player kahit anong accomplishment makuha nya if people hate him then walang makakabago sa isip ng mga tao. mag-iisip at mag-iisip ng reason ang mga tao para i-hate yung player na yun. i used to hate LBJ kaso nag-Miami sya eh kaya i don't hate him anymore but DWade is still my favorite player.

Good example of this is MLB's and NYY's Roger Maris who held the record for most homeruns with 61 for 48 years and a lot of people hate him back then. even NYY fans.

[oweidah]

well, haters just keep on hating. kahit sino namang player kahit anong accomplishment makuha nya if people hate him then walang makakabago sa isip ng mga tao. mag-iisip at mag-iisip ng reason ang mga tao para i-hate yung player na yun. i used to hate LBJ kaso nag-Miami sya eh kaya i don't hate him anymore but DWade is still my favorite player.

Good example of this is MLB's and NYY's Roger Maris who held the record for most homeruns with 61 for 48 years and a lot of people hate him back then. even NYY fans.

kindly check all my nba posts. hindi ko hate si lbj. pero imho very premature na ikumpara siya kay MJ.

kundi nga sentimental choice ko dallas mavs, i would have rooted for miami kasi masyado malakas nga ang big3. nga lang walang gaano bench support.

naging formula na ngayon na hindi lang isang franchise player meron ang team kundi 2 o 3 pa para mag champion. shaq/kobe, kg,pp,ra celts. now lbj dw cb. buti nga kobe nadala sa 2 championships ang LA maski wala na si shaq. umubra ng 2 ang partnership nila ni philjax.

kaya sabi ni JNoah sa miami heat- hollywood as hell. 

[Gob_Loves_Sony]

barkley is the only player i know that most people love to hate..

[puffalan84]

For LeBron James, he can never win back many of the fans he lost after "The Decision" who were saddened by the lack of confidence he showed as he gave up on his dream to be, as his tattoo says, "The Chosen One" to take over MJ's throne. 

For Dwyane Wade, the assembling of "The Heatles" in Miami meant admitting that his championship in 2006 was more of Shaq's doing than his own and signaling to his fans that adding only Chris Bosh would not be enough either. 

[dobler]

barkley is the only player i know that most people love to hate..

Add Bill Laimbeer

[leomarley]

kindly check all my nba posts. hindi ko hate si lbj. pero imho very premature na ikumpara siya kay MJ.

kundi nga sentimental choice ko dallas mavs, i would have rooted for miami kasi masyado malakas nga ang big3. nga lang walang gaano bench support.

naging formula na ngayon na hindi lang isang franchise player meron ang team kundi 2 o 3 pa para mag champion. shaq/kobe, kg,pp,ra celts. now lbj dw cb. buti nga kobe nadala sa 2 championships ang LA maski wala na si shaq. umubra ng 2 ang partnership nila ni philjax.

kaya sabi ni JNoah sa miami heat- hollywood as hell. 

sorry sir but i was not pointing at you but the people who root against the Heat and actually loves hating them specially LBJ. normal lang naman din ang maghate sa isang player. since people usually look for a good guy and bad guy sa sports depende na lang sa fan yun kung sino i-rerelate nila as a bad guy and a good guy. ako ever since talaga i never liked Dirk that's why exciting for me ang NBA since magtatapat ang Miami and Dallas (my good guys, bad guys respectively hehehe).

with regards to comparison ni MJ and LBJ, i still think it's too early to make comparisons but Pip actually has a point yun nga lang dapat kasi hindi greatest ang sinabi ni. magkaiba kasi yung "Best Player" and "Greatest Player". kung Best Player pag-uusapan puwedeng tama si Pip since LBj can play at different positions starting from the 1 position up to the 4 position and actually excel at each one. sort of like a Pound-for-Pound in terms of boxing. but in terms of who's the greatest, nobody can compare to MJ as of the moment. you can only compare one person's greatness to another if both players' career are already finished.

[mattia]

kindly check all my nba posts. hindi ko hate si lbj. pero imho very premature na ikumpara siya kay MJ.

kundi nga sentimental choice ko dallas mavs, i would have rooted for miami kasi masyado malakas nga ang big3. nga lang walang gaano bench support.

naging formula na ngayon na hindi lang isang franchise player meron ang team kundi 2 o 3 pa para mag champion. shaq/kobe, kg,pp,ra celts. now lbj dw cb. buti nga kobe nadala sa 2 championships ang LA maski wala na si shaq. umubra ng 2 ang partnership nila ni philjax.

kaya sabi ni JNoah sa miami heat- hollywood as hell. 

We can only compare Lebron with MJ when Lebron retires.  We can only compare Kobe with MJ when Kobe retires.  Para apples to apples.

Nagbago na ang landscape over the years. Ang tingin ko lumakas lahat ng teams.  Gumaling lahat ng coach.  Naging more scientific ang basketball.  And di na kaya ng 1 franchise player to win a championship.  Kaya kelangan talaga may katulong.  IMHO, kahit siguro si Jordan & Pippen with their 1990's Bulls lineup mahihirapan to dominate given the level of competition and athleticism of players now.  Look at the Lakers now.  Kobe and Gasol kinain ng buhay ng Mavs. Boston, with Garnett, PP, Rondo e isang beses lang nanalo sa Miami Heat!  I believe yan na ang norm ngayon na mangyayari.  You need to have more than 2 or 3 franchise players.  Yun hindi susunod dito at naniniwala pa rin sa old school e sigurado sa pansitan pupulutin.  You gotta roll with the times baby!

Well, tama naman si JNoah - hollywood talaga. And we're loving it no end.  Tingin ko kakaibang finals ang mangyayari eh.  Akala ko pag wala ng Lakers or Boston e boring na.  Hindi pala, I was wrong.   Lalo pag nag champion ang Heat at na contain ni Lebron si Dirk with his defense.  Kakaibang hollywood ending yun!    Pero si Noah, haha, sourgraping lang yun.  Lampaso sila sa Heat eh. 

[Munskie]

I dont think we should compare Marquee Players without Rings to Role PLayers with Rings.  

Superstars who have won Titles.....especially multiple winners will always have that edge to their fellow stars who havent one anything.

For Lebron, he has that talent and skill that can make him the greatest.    What make it a non-debate now is that he hasnt won anything at all.

Assuming he tied Michael and got his 6th ring........the argument is that he colluded with two fellow all-stars....thats why he won.  Lebron fans can point to the fact that Michael has  a top 50 player in Pippen on his side.   It just never ends isnt it?

The only difference......Mj didnt quit on Chicago and led that team throughout, from mediocity till Dynasty and there was no questioning who is the Man.

[leomarley]

For LeBron James, he can never win back many of the fans he lost after "The Decision" who were saddened by the lack of confidence he showed as he gave up on his dream to be, as his tattoo says, "The Chosen One" to take over MJ's throne.

Shaq did the same thing when he decided to go to LA for the glitz and glamour instead of sticking it out with the Magic but he did not receive the same hate and criticism that LBJ got although it was more because of "The Decision" and he already apologized about it. Still, a lot of people hate him and even criticized him for his apology (Chris Webber), what gives? he even received a lot of hate and criticism for what Pippen said. take note, it was Pippen who made that statement but LBJ got most of it.

For Dwyane Wade, the assembling of "The Heatles" in Miami meant admitting that his championship in 2006 was more of Shaq's doing than his own and signaling to his fans that adding only Chris Bosh would not be enough either. 

i don't agree with this. shaq was not even a huge factor in that series. mas malaki pa mga contributions ni Mourning nung 2006 Finals. you're basically saying that his 35+ points average per game in that series had no effect. he virtually carried the entire Heat team on his back and you can't take that away from him.

[Munskie]

Shaq did the same thing when he decided to go to LA for the glitz and glamour instead of sticking it out with the Magic but he did not receive the same hate and criticism that LBJ got although it was more because of "The Decision" and he already apologized about it. Still, a lot of people hate him and even criticized him for his apology (Chris Webber), what gives? he even received a lot of hate and criticism for what Pippen said. take note, it was Pippen who made that statement but LBJ got most of it.

Nung lumipat naman si Shaq sa LA, he was coming to a team that was led by Nick Van Exel and Ceballos.  Big difference when youngster nowadays dont even know who those guys were.

LBJ got criticized by betraying a team on NAtional TV....then accused of colluding with fellow allstars.  Something the old school retired players spoke against.

On Shaq still, the moment they lost to the Rockets, he made it felt and known that he is leaving for free agency.   Shaq rumors going to LA built up, then nagka presscon lang sa LA...tapos.

Malaking diprensya sa binitin sa ere yung team with that "The Decision" stunt.  

[The Stig]

Regarding measuring success with rings, IMO it's basically a tie breaker after stats are considered. For example when comparing Karl Malone and Tim Duncan as best PF ever...

Malone: 25 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2 time MVP
Duncan: 20.6 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.7 spg, 2.3 bpg, 2 time MVP

Very similar career averages right? But what puts TD over is those 4 rings.

[Munskie]

Regarding measuring success with rings, IMO it's basically a tie breaker after stats are considered. For example when comparing Karl Malone and Tim Duncan as best PF ever...

Malone: 25 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2 time MVP
Duncan: 20.6 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.7 spg, 2.3 bpg, 2 time MVP

Very similar career averages right? But what puts TD over is those 4 rings.

I agree.   Shows though that Malone, better offensive player.  Duncan better at defense.

Barkley career averages also mirrors them.....  22.1ppg/11.7rpg/3.9ast/1.5stls/.8bpg  1 time mvp

But he's under discussion among the two coz he's also ringless and relatively his last 5 years ring chasing, he got injured too often (look at Shaq now).

[leomarley]

Regarding measuring success with rings, IMO it's basically a tie breaker after stats are considered. For example when comparing Karl Malone and Tim Duncan as best PF ever...

Malone: 25 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2 time MVP
Duncan: 20.6 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.7 spg, 2.3 bpg, 2 time MVP

Very similar career averages right? But what puts TD over is those 4 rings.

for me, even though TD has 4 rings, i'd still choose Malone over TD.

[The Stig]

Barkley career averages also mirrors them.....  22.1ppg/11.7rpg/3.9ast/1.5stls/.8bpg  1 time mvp

But he's under discussion among the two coz he's also ringless and relatively his last 5 years ring chasing, he got injured too often (look at Shaq now).

Thats another factor to consider. Some don't like to use career stats as a basis because a player's last few (less productive) years might mess up the average.

[The Stig]

I agree.   Shows though that Malone, better offensive player.  Duncan better at defense.

The downside of using stats is that there will always be bias for offensive contributions over defensive ones. Not even blocks and steals are a reliable measure of defensive prowess. Take for example Bruce Bowen, one of the best defensive stoppers of his time, had averages of 0.8 spg and 0.3 bpg.

[Waxx]

sana lang.. lbj didnt dump cleveland..

if he stuck it out with cleveland, then came the sidekicks then the championships... then he will be up there amongst the ranks of mj...

no matter if he wins 10 rings with miami, he will still be beyond comparison with mj..

now if he goes back to cleveland and win a couple, pwede pa..  who knows, baka he might come back home and win a couple....

[Munskie]

now if he goes back to cleveland and win a couple, pwede pa..  who knows, baka he might come back home and win a couple....

  Di na cguro....hehe....
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVKwdOaNiOE

[DVD_Freak]

for me, even though TD has 4 rings, i'd still choose Malone over TD.

+1

Malone for me still tops Duncan.  Duncan is really a center.  So if you put his stats among the best centers, it would pale in comparison.  But stats sometimes are not really a barometer of how good a player is. Barkley indicated before that if you pit these players all at their primes, Duncan, Malone & McHale....he considers McHale as the best power forward of all time.

[Gob_Loves_Sony]

malone s is the prototypical power forward of the 90's...
tim duncan is like brad daugherty with rings....ahehehehe...

[mattia]

sana lang.. lbj didnt dump cleveland..

if he stuck it out with cleveland, then came the sidekicks then the championships... then he will be up there amongst the ranks of mj...

no matter if he wins 10 rings with miami, he will still be beyond comparison with mj..

now if he goes back to cleveland and win a couple, pwede pa..  who knows, baka he might come back home and win a couple....

But times have changed I guess.  Medyo radical lang talaga yun ginawa ni LBJ.  The manner by which it was done was. uhhh, cold blooded.  But can we blame the guy?  Only time will tell again if his decision was right or wrong.  So far, LBJ has been proving his critics ( me included ) wrong.  The Heat has annihilated top teams like the Bulls and former champion Boston.  Lalo na pag nag champion pa Miami Heat.  That would vindicate Lebron's decision.  Critics will say, why?  Jordan won't do that!  But inamin na nga ni Lebron.  Hwag na daw sya i compare kay Jordan.  Sabi nya madami pa sya kakainin to reach Jordan's status.  Humble na nga yun tao hahaha.  I think all he wants is to win championships.  That's all.  Can't really blame the guy.

And comparing Lebron to a retired Jordan is I think not correct.  Hindi apples to apples nga.  What I did was compare Lebron's first 8 seasons with that of MJ's.  Fair enough right?
                                      MJ (1984-1991)   LBJ (2003-2011)
No of Championships              1                      pending ( baka 1 din )
FG%                                   51%                   48%
PTS TOTAL                          19,000                17,362
3 PTS MADE                        206                     863
ASSISTS                             3,507                  4,364
TOTAL REBOUNDS               3,697                  4,451
BLOCKS                              623                    532
STEALS                              1,412                  1,079

I would assume Pip was looking at this too.  Jordan may have more points and better FG% but Lebron has more rebounds, more assists and more 3 points shot than MJ when you compare their first 8 years in the NBA.  Thus, the statement MJ is a better scorer but Lebron is, according to stats, the better all around player definitely has basis here. May assist, rebound at malupet yun 3 points nung LBJ pre.   Now, if you were the team owner and given the opportunity to choose, sino pipiliin mo?  Given everything else equal and wag na muna i consider yun greatness ni Jordan which actually happened in the second half of his career, would you still pick Jordan over Lebron?  I believe more coaches will definitely go for an all around, complete player.  

[DVD_Freak]

Now, if you were the team owner and given the opportunity to choose, sino pipiliin mo?  Given everything else equal and wag na muna i consider yun greatness ni Jordan which actually happened in the second half of his career, would you still pick Jordan over Lebron?  I believe more coaches will definitely go for an all around, complete player.  

I would still actually choose Jordan.  With MJ, you can already expect a great impact from his play the moment he first steps on the floor.  With Lebron, hahanap ka pa ng ibang impact players to surround him para maging effective siya.

[leomarley]

I would still actually choose Jordan.  With MJ, you can already expect a great impact from his play the moment he first steps on the floor.  With Lebron, hahanap ka pa ng ibang impact players to surround him para maging effective siya.

Same lang naman with Jordan. He wasn't very much successful sa playoffs until Pippen arrived in 1987. malas lang ni LBJ walang dumating na "Pippen" sa kanya while he was with Cleveland.

[mattia]

I would still actually choose Jordan.  With MJ, you can already expect a great impact from his play the moment he first steps on the floor.  With Lebron, hahanap ka pa ng ibang impact players to surround him para maging effective siya.

Good point. But given the level of play now, you really need more than 1 impact player.  Actually, you need a big 3!  Di na uubra yun isa lang.  Look what happened to DRose, kinuyog. 1 against 3.  Poor MVP.   Pinagtulungan eh.  It is also highly possible, although again this in hindsight, that the Bulls would have gotten another impact player to help Jordan kung ganito ang labanan noon.  Baka di rin kayanin ni MJ mag-isa.  MJ versus the the Big 3? Kaya kaya yun?