Author Topic: A way to maximize your speakers  (Read 50040 times)

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Offline mak_mak

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #60 on: Aug 28, 2010 at 09:34 PM »
na Loka naman ako dito ::)
Focal Kanta N*2
Naim NAP 300 DR
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Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #61 on: Aug 28, 2010 at 09:37 PM »
^Sundan mo na lang iyung page 1  :) Nandun iyung modification  :)

Offline Brian_mico

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #62 on: Aug 28, 2010 at 10:51 PM »


sarap magbasa ng mga post nyo sir, kahit sobrang nose bleed na ako....
however  much appreaciate all your inputs if it could been written as simple and easy to understand by other readers which are not much into techie thing (like me  ;D)...   

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #63 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 02:38 AM »
I did not expect a Php 50.00 suggestion can merit such discussion :)

Nah. P50,00 or P1.00 or P1,000,000.00 worth of upgrade, if it's worth it, then it's a go go. It's just like saying, is a P50.00 worth of upgrade worth your proprietary recommendation? It won't matter as long as we remain objective. Kudos to your suggestions.


Tagay.. este Cheers!

Offline Stagea

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #64 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 02:48 AM »
Message boards kasi to. Everything's up for discussion, as long as we remain within the guidelines. :)

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #65 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 06:01 AM »
I think I'm still within the guidelines  :)

To answer some of your concerns earlier, the rate of charge and discharge is controlled by the RsCs circuit (snubber). This controls the damping. The higher the Cs, the longer it takes time to charge and discharge. Conversely, the lower the Cs the shorter it takes time to charge and discharge.

The clamp action and rate of charge and discharge affects the dV/dt across the big capacitor consequently affecting the total current i through the C-RsCs. Since the current i is same for the speaker (i=1/L x integral Vdt) and the current of the C-RsCs, it affects the speaker response.
Note: Rs=snubber resistor, Cs=snubber capacitor, C=big capacitor

With improvement in the rate of charge and discharge via the snubber and voltage peak reduction we can affect changes which results in sound quality improvement in the speakers.

I think this is the reason why I'm having fun with the speakers I've modified  :)
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2010 at 08:08 AM by rascal101 »

Offline Stagea

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #66 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 08:23 AM »
I think I'm still within the guidelines  :)

Yes you are. :)

You're right the snubber only works on the devices where it is in parallel with.

I rest my case.
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2010 at 08:23 AM by Stagea »

Offline JojoD818

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #67 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 09:09 AM »
Hehehe ... the pulsating DC looks like AC

You're right the snubber only works on the devices where it is in parallel with.

Anyway, nice discussion   :)


Yes it does, but like you said, it's still DC.



I did not expect a Php 50.00 suggestion can merit such discussion :)


It does when the suggestion needs correction. As technical as we may get, we are all open to new ideas coming from a new modification such as yours. Unfortunately, we speak the same tongue - and that's where the discussion begins.



Have a nice weekend everyone...

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #68 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 09:12 AM »
Hopefully, I have explained myself well enough to justify the sound quality improvement.

It's not unfortunate, it is good for me and to others. All inputs from you guys really put me on the spot and got me thinking  ;D My experience with snubbers is mostly single frequency so napakamot ako ng ulo when people started asking questions ... hehehe

Have a nice weekend to you and everybody reading this thread  :)
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2010 at 09:21 AM by rascal101 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #69 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 10:25 AM »
Actually, the questions people asked made me realize my questions why when a small capacitor is placed in parallel with an electrolytic or even polypropelene capacitor, there is sound quality improvement.

By creating a table showing the total impedance of the C-RsCs with C=135uF, Rs=0 and Cs=220nF I was able to see the improvement in output voltage across a wide range of frequencies. I was also able to see that then you have a series resistor Rs you have slightly more improvement.

I was also forced to think about the formulas for the capacitor and inductor, correlate it with the above table and think how it can affect the speaker. It is then I realized that it is due to some changes in the current.

Anyway, I want to thank you guys for helping me out :)
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2010 at 10:46 AM by rascal101 »

Offline 1great

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #70 on: Aug 29, 2010 at 09:03 PM »
Keep up what you are doing.

If the modification you did sound good to you then go with it.
And keep on posting it as there may be some readers who may want to try it and could benefit from it.

 :)

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #71 on: Aug 30, 2010 at 02:47 AM »
Keep up what you are doing.

If the modification you did sound good to you then go with it.
And keep on posting it as there may be some readers who may want to try it and could benefit from it.

 :)

Thanks Sir  :)
« Last Edit: Aug 30, 2010 at 04:05 AM by rascal101 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #72 on: Aug 30, 2010 at 04:41 AM »
Based on the table I have created earlier, it appears that the output voltage improvement at high frequencies is not as good as the lower frequencies. So, it would appear that adding a choke or inductor in series with the large capacitor (270uF in series) will have higher impedance at higher frequencies (Xl - Xc) but with minimal effect at low frequencies. However, total impedance (LC-RsCs) will be lower. So, we can achieve the results we're seeing at the lower frequencies. Based on iteration of various inductance values, a 100nF inductor or choke will achieve similar improvement at low and high frequencies.

Using Pronine Electronics air core choke calculator with magnet wire from AWG #18 to AWG #30 and, using an ordinary pencil (diameter = 0.8cm), 6 turns are required to achieve 100nH. To achieve this, we will need 7 inches of magnet wire. For this, I'm using AWG #19 magnet wire. You can use ordinary wire AWG #18 to AWG #30 if you don't have magnet wire (however, magnet wire is best). Please refer to below pictures:

We will have to connect the air core choke or inductor this way


We need 7 inches and a pencil with diameter of 0.8cm (this is the typical diameter of most pencils)


Winding the choke (I have already removed the enamel coating at both ends)


Adding the air core choke to a previously modified PC speaker


How does it sound? Well ... buo na mas may buhay :)
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 at 04:30 AM by rascal101 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #73 on: Aug 30, 2010 at 05:30 AM »
May pagka fatiguing ng konti so i-adjust ko later iyung snubber values. Taasan ko ng bahagya iyung snubber resistor. Palitan ko siya ng 5 ohms.

Addendum: 8/30/2010 12:05PM

With snubber resistor at 5 ohms, sound is just right for me.
« Last Edit: Aug 30, 2010 at 11:08 AM by rascal101 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #74 on: Aug 30, 2010 at 07:49 AM »
Based on the above, it appears obvious that the design goal is to create a controlled current "source" that will have no impedance over a wide range of frequencies for the speakers. Since it is impossible to achieve zero impedance, let's just say negligible or as little as possible.

Would like to request specially experienced Field Application Engineers for automated testers for some ideas if possible.

« Last Edit: Aug 30, 2010 at 08:25 AM by rascal101 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #75 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 04:37 AM »
For now, I think I'll just stick with the air core choke and the snubber resistor and capacitor - 3 components. Nobody really likes complicated mods (including me)  :)

Schematic Diagram (edited 8/31/2010 10:05pm, changed R1 to 5ohms)


Bill of Materials (BOM)



« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 at 09:08 PM by rascal101 »

Offline monreq

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #76 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 02:04 PM »
I am having a nose bleed with the technical discussion. As for me, I just try it and if the sound is not good I call Mel for assistance.  In that way, I am learning a bit even though I don't understand so much the technical information.

All famous audio gears started in trial and error ( experiment) to get the best product isn't it?  So, I kept that in mind.  Whenever I buy an audio gear and thinks it needs some modification, I don't hesitate to experiment my own things as long as it won't lead to short circuit that will later destroy my amp or speakers.

Good luck to those who are trying the experiment.  But take care and have a presence of mind doing these things. :) :) :)
"LEARNING is a NEVER ENDING process.  Only a FOOL will say he already knows everything."

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #77 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 03:30 PM »
Simplehan natin iyung paliwanag sa snubber.

Sa obserbasyon ko kasi ang mga capacitor na mataas ang value - mga 1uF at mas mataas pa, mabagal kumarga at magdiskarga. Hindi gaanong ma-detalye mga capacitor na ito. Smooth kung smooth pero may kulang lalo sa mga "high".

Kapag nagparallel ka ng mas maliit na capacitor (Cs) mas nagiging claro ang tunog. Iyung "high" nabubuhay. Lalo na kung 10nF na Vishay MKP1837 o hindi kaya ay 10nF Evox PFR. Mas mabilis ng di hamak kumarga at magdiskarga mga ito (dahil sa liit ng value nila at dahil sila ay polypropelene). Ang problema lang minsan, sa bilis ng mga ito mas nagiging matalas tumunog at hindi siya ganun ka ganda kapag pinares sa ibang capacitor. Kaya ang isang paraan para makontrol ang bilis ng pagkarga at diskarga ay ang paggamit ng isang series resistor (Rs). Ang pagkarga at diskarga ngayon ay kontrolado ng RC time constant (t = 2*pi*Rs*Cs). Dati rati kung walang Rs ang nagkokontrol ay ang bilis lang ng capacitor mismo.

Sa obserbasyon ko, iyung Rs nagkokontrol ng talas at iyung Cs naman ng bilis ng nota. Kung mataas ang Cs mabagal at kung mababa naman mas mabilis maputol ang mga nota. Madali itong pansinin sa piano kung saan hindi dapat nag-eextend ang mga nota.

Siyempre depende na rin sa capacitor na ginamit mo ang ganda ng tunog ng mga nota. Marami kang puwedeng pagpilian. Doon sa www.humblehomemadehifi.com may mga reviews ng capacitor doon. Kung hirap ka naman bumili ng mga sinabi doon tawagan mo ang Spin Electronics (tel no 5312029, 7170947). Marami silang iba't ibang capacitor na puwedeng pagpilian. Kausapin mo si Ma'am Digna o si Phillip.
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 at 03:51 PM by rascal101 »

Offline monreq

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #78 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 04:13 PM »
Simplehan natin iyung paliwanag sa snubber.

Sa obserbasyon ko kasi ang mga capacitor na mataas ang value - mga 1uF at mas mataas pa, mabagal kumarga at magdiskarga. Hindi gaanong ma-detalye mga capacitor na ito. Smooth kung smooth pero may kulang lalo sa mga "high".

Kapag nagparallel ka ng mas maliit na capacitor (Cs) mas nagiging claro ang tunog. Iyung "high" nabubuhay. Lalo na kung 10nF na Vishay MKP1837 o hindi kaya ay 10nF Evox PFR. Mas mabilis ng di hamak kumarga at magdiskarga mga ito (dahil sa liit ng value nila at dahil sila ay polypropelene). Ang problema lang minsan, sa bilis ng mga ito mas nagiging matalas tumunog at hindi siya ganun ka ganda kapag pinares sa ibang capacitor. Kaya ang isang paraan para makontrol ang bilis ng pagkarga at diskarga ay ang paggamit ng isang series resistor (Rs). Ang pagkarga at diskarga ngayon ay kontrolado ng RC time constant (t = 2*pi*Rs*Cs). Dati rati kung walang Rs ang nagkokontrol ay ang bilis lang ng capacitor mismo.

Sa obserbasyon ko, iyung Rs nagkokontrol ng talas at iyung Cs naman ng bilis ng nota. Kung mataas ang Cs mabagal at kung mababa naman mas mabilis maputol ang mga nota. Madali itong pansinin sa piano kung saan hindi dapat nag-eextend ang mga nota.

Siyempre depende na rin sa capacitor na ginamit mo ang ganda ng tunog ng mga nota. Marami kang puwedeng pagpilian. Doon sa www.humblehomemadehifi.com may mga reviews ng capacitor doon. Kung hirap ka naman bumili ng mga sinabi doon tawagan mo ang Spin Electronics (tel no 5312029, 7170947). Marami silang iba't ibang capacitor na puwedeng pagpilian. Kausapin mo si Ma'am Digna o si Phillip.

Bro.you shared so much informations.  Remember, lots of famous inventors gathered their experiments also from other good inventors.  They got the idea from several inventors and came up with a better idea and reproduce the product.  Remember the Pinoy Inventor of Flourescent Bulb.  He got the idea from Thomas Edison and came out with a better invention.  Iba ang Pinoy bro pag nagka idea.  Baka di na kumita mga manufacturers niyan.   ;D ;D
"LEARNING is a NEVER ENDING process.  Only a FOOL will say he already knows everything."

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #79 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 04:18 PM »
May mga sikreto na dapat sikreto kahit anong mangyari. Mahirap na   ;D

Hanggang dito na lang siguro baka ako mapalo o hindi kaya ay masisante  :)
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 at 04:33 PM by rascal101 »

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #80 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:11 PM »
May nagtanong sa akin kung nababawasan iyung speaker sensitivity.

Ang sagot dito ay hindi. Sa obserbasyon ko, medyo lumakas ang tunog kaya tumaas ang sensitivity.
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:11 PM by rascal101 »

Offline oweidah

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #81 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:30 PM »
May mga sikreto na dapat sikreto kahit anong mangyari. Mahirap na   ;D

Hanggang dito na lang siguro baka ako mapalo o hindi kaya ay masisante  :)

sir rascal sa bahay ka na mangumpisal pag nag-borjer tayo at pasiglahin mo ang kenwood cdp ko  ;D

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #82 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:38 PM »
OT: ^Meron pala akong maliit na Neem tree. Gaganda lalo ang tunog ng Kenwood CDP mo kasi makakapag focus ka na ... hehehe. Saktong sakto rin kapag nag-borjer at walang istorbo  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:39 PM by rascal101 »

Offline oweidah

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #83 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:55 PM »
OT: ^Meron pala akong maliit na Neem tree. Gaganda lalo ang tunog ng Kenwood CDP mo kasi makakapag focus ka na ... hehehe. Saktong sakto rin kapag nag-borjer at walang istorbo  ;D ;D ;D

bunutin mo na yung neem at transplant dito hehehe...

btw nakabili na ako ng sockets at mylar caps sa deeco para sa tweak.

para di ot,,, its worthwhile to try sir rascals' simple tweaks. nakaka-tame ang sibilance. 

Offline Brian_mico

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #84 on: Sep 01, 2010 at 02:45 AM »
For now, I think I'll just stick with the air core choke and the snubber resistor and capacitor - 3 components. Nobody really likes complicated mods (including me)  :)

Schematic Diagram (edited 8/31/2010 10:05pm, changed R1 to 5ohms)


Bill of Materials (BOM)





Would this also applicable to regular speaker...
i wanna try this tweak to the spkrs of my mini compos. Same value pa rin ba?

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #85 on: Sep 01, 2010 at 03:36 AM »
^Yes Sir. You can use the same values of R1, C3, L2, C1 and C2 on your mini-component. However, please be prepared to make slight adjustments as what happened to me above.

I suggest you also prepare 2pcs each of 5ohm/5W and 10ohm/5W resistors. This way if the sound is dull to your taste, you can parallel the 10ohm/5W resistor to the 5ohm/5W resistor.

Further, please prepare 2pcs of 100nF/50V Mylar capacitor as replacement of the 220nF/50V Mylar capacitor. The piano notes (to my recollection) are a bit extended with 220nF/50V Mylar capacitor. But that's just me.

For the regular speaker, please try it on your tweeter without the C1 and C2 because your tweeter should already have its own capacitor.
« Last Edit: Sep 01, 2010 at 04:19 AM by rascal101 »

Offline Brian_mico

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #86 on: Sep 01, 2010 at 04:36 AM »
^Yes Sir. You can use the same values of R1, C3, L2, C1 and C2 on your mini-component. However, please be prepared to make slight adjustments as what happened to me above.

I suggest you also prepare 2pcs each of 5ohm/5W and 10ohm/5W resistors. This way if the sound is dull to your taste, you can parallel the 10ohm/5W resistor to the 5ohm/5W resistor.

Further, please prepare 2pcs of 100nF/50V Mylar capacitor as replacement of the 220nF/50V Mylar capacitor. The piano notes (to my recollection) are a bit extended with 220nF/50V Mylar capacitor. But that's just me.

For the regular speaker, please try it on your tweeter without the C1 and C2 because your tweeter should already have its own capacitor.

thanks sir Rascal for the very helpful tips .. ... will try this ASAP ;D

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #87 on: Sep 01, 2010 at 04:40 AM »
Pa advise na lang po ng listening impressions at iyung final values na ginamit mo  :)
« Last Edit: Sep 01, 2010 at 04:41 AM by rascal101 »

Offline Brian_mico

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #88 on: Sep 01, 2010 at 04:59 AM »
Pa advise na lang po ng listening impressions at iyung final values na ginamit mo  :)

Yup. will post it  right away once I completed the project.  ;)

Offline rascal101

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Re: A way to maximize your speakers
« Reply #89 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 08:29 PM »
I just wanted to be clear with an earlier statement I stated, the RC circuit when in parallel with a C as used in amplifier circuits is generically called the Pole-Zero Compensation method.
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2010 at 08:33 PM by rascal101 »