Topic: The Religion Thread

[Klaus Weasley]

question lang. does your parents know your stance about religion? ako kasi alam ng mom ko na i'm agnostic and she's quite ok if don't go to church. she serves as a church usherette pa every sunday and saturday.

They do but they still would like me to go to church with them "just in case". Plus it's a way for me to spend time with the family.

[bumblebee]

you just interpret what you read in the Bible... its not people's idea of God... its yours...

E kaninong interpretasyon ba ang tama? Iisa lang ang source, which is the Bible, hindi pa magkasundo mga Christian religion.

[luis]

for me, I simply follow the summary of all teachings: 

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[bumblebee]

for me, I simply follow the summary of all teachings: 

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

Ang simple lang di ba?

[luis]

Ang simple lang di ba?

it takes a lot of effort, patience, understanding and perseverance though.  well, ganun talaga.   

[irememberhalloween]

question lang. does your parents know your stance about religion? ako kasi alam ng mom ko na i'm agnostic and she's quite ok if don't go to church. she serves as a church usherette pa every sunday and saturday.

My late grandfather was actually one of my most highly influential hero of opening my eyes on all these. Not music, neither them books. It actually makes sense. It’s great to see some with same view.

Oh my mother knows ofcourse, and I still get random breakfast table debates with her every once in a while when I’m at her place. Haha.

[majoe]

What about the story of Abraham and Isaac? God came down from Heaven and tells Abraham to sacrifice his son as offering to him.....and he was going to do it! I don't care if he was crying and was hesitant to do it.....BUT HE WAS GOING TO DO IT! When I was a kid, I was told that this is God's way of testing Abraham's love for him. As a kid, I thought it made sense but as an adult, I realized how f-ed up it is for a supposedly loving God to do that and how f-ed up Abraham is for not telling God to f**k off.

If you try doing that to your child. Give your child a puppy. Make him love that puppy. Then out of the blue, you tell your child, "If you love me, kill your puppy!" That's emotional abuse.

i guess you  failed to make a good review of this book, the Bible

i noticed that you delved too much on the story of Abraham sacrificing his son Isaac which did not consummate at all but you just ignored the part where God will sacrifice his only son Jesus.
 

[irememberhalloween]

Sure. But whatever it is, for me, it will DEFINITELY not be through religion. I prefer to exert my effort "know" God through the arts and sciences. I have nothing against people who are religious (as long as you're not harming people or imposing your morals on people who disagree with you) but to me, religion is largely a waste of time and only valuable as a cultural tradition. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't find spirituality, fulfillment or comfort in religious dogma.

I guess it's because in most of my experience with religion involves people who claim to have all the answers. I know for a fact that that's simply not true.

nuff said. cheers man.

[barrister]

for me, I simply follow the summary of all teachings: 

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

Good for you.  But that's not the end of it; that's just the starting point.
 

 

Ang simple lang di ba?

Simple nga talaga, kasi starting point pa lang yan.
 
When confronted with a complex moral dilemma, those basic principles will not help.
 
Let's say there's a woman who was married in the Catholic church.  When she discovers that the husband is keeping a mistress, she leaves the husband.  Later, she meets another man; now she and the new man are happily living together.

One friend says it's OK according to the bible; another friend says according to the Catholic faith, the bible says she is living in sin.
 
Which view is correct?
 
Applying the two basic commandments will not give you the answer.
 
That is why Hebrews 5:12-14 says:
 
... You need milk, not solid food! ¹³Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. ¹⁴ But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
 
In 1 Cor. 3:1-2, Paul refers to the spiritually immature Christians as "infants in Christ"---

Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. ² I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

[bumblebee]

Simple nga talaga, kasi starting point pa lang yan.
 
When confronted with a complex moral dilemma, those basic principles will not help.
 
Let's say there's a woman who was married in the Catholic church.  When she discovers that the husband is keeping a mistress, she leaves the husband.  Later, she meets another man; now she and the new man are happily living together.

One friend says it's OK according to the bible; another friend says according to the Catholic faith, the bible says she is living in sin.
 
Which view is correct?
 
Applying the two basic commandments will not give you the answer.
 
That is why Hebrews 5:12-14 says:
 
... You need milk, not solid food! ¹³Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. ¹⁴ But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Again, it's simple. Do what you think is right, as long as wala kang naaabala or natatapakan. Living in sin ba? We'll see in the afterlife, if there is one.

[barrister]

Again, it's simple. Do what you think is right, as long as wala kang naaabala or natatapakan. Living in sin ba? We'll see in the afterlife, if there is one.

The woman cannot decide which is right, so she cannot do what she thinks is right.
 
It's unfortunate that you didn't get it.

[bumblebee]

The woman cannot decide which is right, so she cannot do what she thinks is right.
 
It's unfortunate that you didn't get it.

You said they're already living happily together, so she has already decided.

What's unfortunate is that other people play God and judge her.

[barrister]

You said they're already living happily together, so she has already decided.

They're happily living together, but her conscience is bothering her.

Mahirap talagang gisingin ang gising... 

[bumblebee]

They're happily living together, but her conscience is bothering her.

Mahirap talagang gisingin ang gising... 

No, her "friend" is bothering her.

Hindi mo na kailangang gisingin ang gising, gising na nga e.

[leomarley]

what if the woman doesn't care about the Catholic church's view? napakadali di ba? just get an annulment and get married again if she wants to. nagiging complicated kasi pag may religion na pumapasok. why can't there be a third option where another friend tells her, "To hell with conforming with social religious conventions! Do what makes you happy!"?

[barrister]

No, her "friend" is bothering her.

No, neither friend is bothering her.   

 

Hindi mo na kailangang gisingin ang gising, gising na nga e.

Your'e not familiar with the expression?

 

what if the woman doesn't care about the Catholic church's view?

What if she does?
 
Not so simple anymore.

[bumblebee]

No, neither friend is bothering her.   

Firstly, you said she is happy. Kung kinokonsensya sya, hindi sya dapat masaya. E, masaya nga sya e. Kaya lang sya "kinokonsensya" kasi yung isa nyang "kaibigan", ang sabi, "living in sin" sya.
 

Your'e not familiar with the expression?

I am.

[leomarley]

If she did care about the Catholic church's views, she wouldn't be living in in the first place. And I agree with bumblebee. She was living happily until her religious friend put her in a sense of guilt. So again, religion complicates things.

[barrister]

If she did care about the Catholic church's views, she wouldn't be living in in the first place.

There are many Catholics who care about Catholic doctrine, yet still live in adulterous relationships.
 

And I agree with bumblebee. She was living happily until her religious friend put her in a sense of guilt. So again, religion complicates things.

No, she already had feelings of guilt, being a Catholic.  The sense of guilt arose before she consulted her friends.

True, religion complicates things.  But remember, the issue is:  "Are the two basic commandments sufficient?"  Therefore, the premise already includes religion.  It's only a question of whether the 2 commandments suffice or not.

[barrister]

I am.

I see.  Ako naman pala ang hindi naka-gets... 
 

Firstly, you said she is happy. Kung kinokonsensya sya, hindi sya dapat masaya. E, masaya nga sya e. Kaya lang sya "kinokonsensya" kasi yung isa nyang "kaibigan", ang sabi, "living in sin" sya.

I mean parang yung "happily married," meaning they love each other.  Kaya lang, Catholic siya, which doesn't allow it, that's why her conscience was bothering her.

Being bothered by her conscience came before she consulted the friend.  In fact, it was the reason why she consulted them.

If you believe that following the dictates of your conscience is sufficient, ok yon sir.  In fact, I agree wholeheartedly.

Hindi ako katulad ng iba na sinasabing ang atheists ay siguradong impiyerno na.  On my old posts, I always said that the bible itself teaches that even atheists can attain salvation, but they will be judged according to their conscience, and not according to the bible's commandments for Christians.

But the issue here is a different matter --- assuming you believe in the bible's teaching that there are only 2 basic commandments, are they sufficient to live a righteous life or not?

[bumblebee]

I mean "happily married," meaning they love each other.  Kaya lang, Catholic siya, which doesn't allow it.

Being bothered by her conscience came before she consulted the friend.  In fact, it was the reason why she consulted them.

Then revise the scenario you presented. You always say, wrong premise, wrong conclusion right?

[bumblebee]

But the issue here is a different matter --- assuming you believe in the bible's teaching that there are only 2 basic commandments, are they sufficient to live a righteous life or not?

Yeah. Mas madali nga e. Two commandments lang.

[barrister]

Then revise the scenario you presented. You always say, wrong premise, wrong conclusion right?

I tried to make the story as short as possible, which resulted in the exclusion of details that might be relevant to you, but irrelevant to me.

You asked for clarification, and I clarified.

Now everything is clear. But the premise is not wrong.
 
 
 

Yeah. Mas madali nga e. Two commandments lang.

Tama, mas madali nga.  Pero hindi yon ang tanong.

[bumblebee]

I tried to make the story as short as possible, which resulted in the exclusion of details that might be relevant to you, but irrelevant to me.

You asked for clarification, and I clarified.

Now everything is clear. But the premise is not wrong.

The premise was wrong because you presented one thing and I take it as is. Marami pa palang details.

Tama, mas madali nga.  Pero hindi yon ang tanong.

Ok, ano yung tanong?

[Klaus Weasley]

Priest says Hell is an invention to control people

“I happen to believe in life after death, but I don’t think it’s got a thing to do with reward and punishment. Religion is always in the control business. And that’s something people don’t really understand. It’s in the guilt producing control business. And if you have Heaven as a place where you are rewarded for your goodness, and Hell as a place where you are punished for your evil, then you sort of have control of the population. And so they create this fiery place which is quite literally scared quite the hell out of a lot of people throughout Christian history. And it is part of a control tactic. But I think there is a sense in most religious life of reward and punishment in some form.

The Church doesn’t like for people to grow up. Because you can’t control grown ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. The people don’t need to be born again, they need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves and the world. Every Church I know claims that “we are the true church”, that they have some “ultimate authority”. The idea that the Truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book is almost beyond imagination for me. God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu, a Buddhist. All of these are human systems which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition, I walk through my tradition. But I don’t believe my tradition defines God. I think it only points me to God.”

Amen!

I've always thought that the concept of "do good, you go to Heaven but do bad, you go to Hell" is so simplistic that if you base your philosophy and morality around that, para ka lang bata.

[rascal101]

What good is a man who keeps acting like an adult but fails to keep his words.

The world was meant to be simplistic. Why give so much thought about life? We get born, we live for some time then we die.

[leomarley]

Why Every Newspaper Should Reprint the Controversial 'Charlie Hebdo' Cartoons



http://mic.com/articles/107908/why-every-newspaper-should-reprint-the-muhammad-cartoons-by-charlie-hebdo

[Klaus Weasley]

^I was gonna post about this. And yes, we should.

While we're at it, let's get rid of our antiquated blasphemy laws. Meron pa ba tayong ganoon?

[rexFi]

What good is a man who keeps acting like an adult but fails to keep his words.

The world was meant to be simplistic. Why give so much thought about life? We get born, we live for some time then we die.

The writer of Ecclesiastes(my favorite book in the Bible) agrees with you.

Oh and belated Merry Christmas.

Anyway here is one of my favorite reasons why I believe in the Christian God: the Moral Argument.

By William Lane Craig
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/moral-argument

But do your examples even do that? The immorality of rape is immediately given in the seventh of the Ten Commandments “You shall not commit adultery.” Any sexual intercourse outside the bounds of marriage is proscribed by the Bible. So rape is always regarded as immoral in the Bible. That puts a quite different perspective on things.

What your complaint really is is that the penalties for rape in the passages you cite seem unduly lenient.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/moral-argument#ixzz3OCtkfasJ

By Hayden Kho esteh John M. Njoroge from the Ravi Zacharias ministry website :
http://www.rzim.org/just-thinking/the-new-atheism-and-morality/

A good example of a claim against religion that does not sit well with the facts of reality is issued in the form of a challenge to the believer to “name one ethical statement made, or one ethical action performed, by a believer that could not have been uttered or done by a nonbeliever.”

(1)  We are expected to agree that no such action or statement exists and then conclude that morality does not depend on God.The problem is that the conclusion does not follow from the premise. The fact that a non-believer can utter moral statements and even act morally does not logically lead to the conclusion that morality does not depend on God, much less that God does not exist.

This challenge misunderstands the believer’s position on the relationship between morality and God.The believer’s claim is that the world owes its existence to a moral God. All human beings are moral agents created in God’s image and are expected to recognize right from wrong because they all reflect God’s moral character. The fact that human beings are the kinds of creatures that can recognize the moral imperatives that are part of the very fabric of the universe argues strongly against naturalism.

[rascal101]

^agree with you